Do you like most strip clubs?

Agreed. Clubs are becoming "tourist traps" for people looking to ogle and giggle at a stereotypical "gentleman's club." Most of the customers catered to, therefore, are one-hit-wonders -- people who drop in, blow their one wad of cash once, and then disappear never to darken a strip-club doorway ever again. Kind of like "watching the donkey show" (which doesn't exist, usually) in Tijuana -- more a novelty-act which can bilk you for anything P. T. Barnum ever thought up, than a well-run classy establishment.

Except I'm not so sure that clubs have changed, I think it's more the fact that I have. I look at them differently than I used to. I noticed that the last few times I was in clubs (which hasn't been for quite a while), it was like I was actually seeing them for the first time. And I didn't especially like what I saw.

Part of the problem is that the closest clubs are about 45 minutes away and they aren't very good. I have to drive about 1.5 hours to get to any places that I actually like, and I rarely have the time to do that. Plus I don't travel much anymore and almost never alone, which is when I used to do most of my clubbing. And the times I feel like going rarely coincide with when I have time. So maybe my clubbing days are over.

My trajectory in strip-clubbing has gone in a direction, I guess, but I don't know if *I* personally have changed or if I'm simply attending different style clubs.

Initially, I was attracted to sleaze-joints with high degrees of mileage and extras service. (In fact, I still am.) It was only after I developed some experience, that I learned to identify places like this and actually get myself into them and into getting that kind of service. Some were easier, some harder to find out.

Meanwhile I was often moving cities, so my local experience was changing rapidly.

Only through the course of all this researching and testing, did I also come to appreciate a "nice relaxing strip-club experience," which is (I think) what most guys on this board are looking for. I'll now allow myself a relaxed experience sometimes, or a high-extras-service experience sometimes, but I have to admit that the two are different quests. The relaxation quest was something I embarked on only long after learning the ropes of the services quest.

I think early on I used to go to clubs looking for something and being disappointed because I rarely found it. Then I learned to relax and not have any expectations, to just enjoy whatever I encountered, and that was more fun. But then I met my ATF and everything changed. After she left I kept looking for someone else like her and never found one. So I stopped looking.

FONDL,

I think, being an older club go'er myself, it is more the clubs that have changed. Meeting my ATF, as you stated, DID change a lot of things, but none of them very positive.

I definitely like the concept of strip clubs, simply because it's nice to see dancing naked chicks. So on that basis, I like most strip clubs. But there is no perfect club, where you can just get everything you want at a reasonable price. That's why I end up going to 4 different clubs on at least a semi-regular basis. I think most clubs have something going for it, either highly rated girls, or extras, or atmosphere, or something else, but if they had everything going for it, in due time, they would take everything for granted and someone would come along to knock them off their high horse.

Most clubs suck. That's been the case since I started going. I've seen a lot of good clubs turn lousy over the years, usually due to greedy, short-sighted management. Or pointless meddling, trying to fix what ain't broke. Or deluded owners trying to turn their humble joints into upscale dream palaces. Or all of the above.

Yet somehow, it seems the number of clubs that fail to suck has remained fairly constant. Where most clubs disappoint me isn't so much in concept. It's a lack of hot looking strippers with good attitudes. If a club has them, I can overlook its less than complete realization of the concept. And if it doesn't have them, I don't really care what else it has going for it. However, the two usually go together - concept and good girls. Maybe the problem is there are only so many good girls to go around who are willing to put up with our customer shit.

I go to different clubs because no club seems to have everything I'm looking for. I like seeing nude, great looking dancers, with a nice club atmosphere with plenty of seating without the music being so loud you have to shout to be heard. Then I also like getting good value for the money dances like IGU and others do. So I club hop. I see nude girls at one club. I see a number of pretty girls with a very nice club relaxing atmosphere at another club. Then I visit a typically very loud club with lots of dancers who can get competitive with their dance prices and give you more value for your money on lap dances. I guess if I was only looking for one thing like a relaxing club atmosphere with pretty girls, I could visit just one club.

Most strip clubs do seem to suck which is why I don't go around visiting every single strip club out there. If I visited once and almost couldn't wait to get back out the door, I'll remember not to visit again. Who wants to spend their time off sitting around an empty strip club or a club with a 200 lb ugly girl on stage?

Whenever I think about bad clubs, I'm reminded of a place that I've described here before. One evening on a business trip to western PA, I went looking for a club that I had , seen mentioned in the Yellow Pages that was out in the middle of nowhere, maybe 30 miles east of Pittsburgh, and if you know western PA you know there's nothing and I mean nothing there. Anyway it turned out to be a small barn. It took me awhile to find the entrance around back. I went in and there was nobody there and I mean nobody - no customers, no employees, no nothing, just a small empty barn with a stage in the middle. I was about ready to leave when a fuglie came out, climbed up on stage and danced. I felt kind of trapped so I sat and watched her, figuring I'd give her a dollar and leave (I hate to be rude.) So after a couple of songs she ended her dance, I tipped her, and started to leave. And then this drop dead gorgeous young girl followed her onto the stage. And without going into details. let's just say that turned out to be one of the best times I've ever spent in a strip club (if you'd call it that.) Which is why I used to love to visit places like that, cause you just never know.

Don't forget that failing a drug test and addiction to a drug aren't necessarily the same thing. At most any time in my life, I might have failed a drug test, yet the only drug I've ever been addicted to was nicotine.

Oops! Wrong thread. Musta been high.

I probably should add that even some of the clubs I like, or have liked, most, can suck sometimes. Even my favorite club can suck sometimes. Usually, what happens is I see my two favorites (who are almost always there), get dances from them, then sit around hoping somebody I like comes along later, and hopefully not the dirty old lady that always seems to be there. Which isn't to say she's bad company, but sometimes, I want my extras from a lady who's actually attractive.

Maybe our expectations are unrealistic. Maybe some of the stuff we dislike is beyound the control of the club manager.

IDEAL CLUB: No cover charge, $1 drinks, comfy chairs, adequate adjustable lighting, private LD rooms, $5 dances unclipped songs, minimal/no staff "supervision/presence. The reality is, a lot of chain clubs that have comfortable settings and at least fairly attractive dancers are set up to extract $ from customer at every turn. There are plenty of dives that are easy on pocketbook, but lacking in dancer attractiveness and/or mileage. I find something to enjoy in club visits, but talent seems to be diluted more with greater number of clubs.

Minnow: your description fits exactly the House of Lancaster on Bloor Street in Toronto, 1997.

We've talked a lot about the different kinds of clubs that are out there (at least I have) and various ways to classify them. But maybe the most meaningful distinction isn't size or level of fancy, but instead is their focus. Seems like a lot of clubs, both large and small, both fancy and dives, focus on separating as much money as quickly as possible from the customer while providing as little as possible in return. These I call clip joints. Then there are other clubs whose focus seems to be on pleasing their customers by providing a fun and friendly atmosphere at reasonable prices. Personally I've found most such places to be fairly small and ones where most customers are locals. Brad's is a good example. That's the kind of place that I like. You can have the clip joints, I dislike them all.

I think there's yet another focus. A club that's in it "longer term" and has a manager / owner combination which can actually work toward that goal, often focuses on KEEPING THE GIRLS HAPPY. I find those to be some of the best experiences, because the dancers themselves will be self-selected for highest level of good service -- whether it's sexual extras that you want, or a clean lap-dance, or a cleaner eye-candy dance, you'll get the best from these clubs (which are few and far between). Sometimes the talent is disappointing in smaller cities, so it's best (IMO) to find a keep-the-girls-happy club in a major metro area.

Book Guy, I was going to add much the same thing. I think a major reason for the difference in focus is management style - good managers hire good people, assure that they know what to do, then get out of the way so they can do it. But that takes a higher level of self-confidence than most mamanger have. Most managers need to be hands on to prove to everyone that they're in charge, they need the frequent ego boost from telling others what to do. Which annoys their employees.

I think the smaller clubs that are managed by the owner are usually better managed. The owner has the self-confidence or he wouldn't be an owner. And he takes a much longer-term perspective because he has a long term stake in the business, so he's much more concerned with keeping both customers and employees happy. The guys who manage the large clubs are rarely owners so they're more interested in impressing their boss than in satisfying customers, and they don't care about their employees - they have a short-term perspective.

Agreed. The lessons apply to most businesses. Except, I'm not there to attend a well-run strip-club. I certainly do understand that many, many times, the fact that the club is well-run probably means I'm more likely to enjoy myself there. But on certain other occasions, there's something that I want, which is LESS likely to happen at a well-run club and MORE likely to happen at a place where intervening layers of ineptitude clutter the managerial mix. For example, getting reliable sexual services with the hottest girls for a cheap price.