List Countries by Your Perceived Sexual Permissiveness or Conservatism

Surprised that Japan is that far down the list. Got to get me to Brazil someday. Carnival sounds like a riot .

I’ve only lived in five countries but have visited about 40.

Of the countries I with which I am familiar I would rank the USA near the bottom for sexual permissiveness. Only the Pakistan and Qatar strike me as more sexually repressed.

The country that always struck me as very sexually open was Argentina. I remember how shocked I was on my first visit. The women in Argentina were so unbelievably brazen, shameless and slutty.

It was wonderful.

Since it’s been over 40 years since I’ve been to any other country than Mexico... The land of the free and the brave ranks at the bottom. go USA!!! maybe some of the Islamic countries are worse.

Netherlands not on the list?

@warrior

The list is not in order for me. I haven't given my list yet I was just going region by region. I would certainly never think Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan is more permissive than Japan lol.

@icey you're putting North Korea ahead of the US and Brazil?

Is this is a another thread by Soy Boy Beta Cuck about how the US sucks because he can’t get laid? Lmao

@Not all Thai women are whores. The others are cooks and nail techs.

^ or like all TUSCLers assuming that phat boi is a troll...... but they’d be right in that assumption

I will go ahead and clarify with my list...

1. Brazil
2. Argentina
3. Colombia
4. Spain
5. Italy
6. Germany
7. Portugal
8. France
9. Japan
10. UK
11. Canada
12. US
13. South Korea
14. Ukraine
15. Russia
16. Tanzania
17. Kenya
18. Mexico
19. El Salvador
20. South Africa.
21. India
22. North Korea
23. Egypt
24. Somalia
25. Turkey
26. Syria
27. Iraq
28. Saudi Arabia
29. Afghanistan.

OK CC. That list makes more sense that you first one. I thought you were actually ranking them in your first list. Now I see you were just putting the countries out there in list form.

My perception is most of the middle eastern countries would be at the bottom. South America, then Europe. Us probably somewhere in the middle. I would put Mexico above the US though.

@pistola

This has absolutely nothing to do with me.

@IceyLoco

A lot of the Catholic countries are really sexual though. Brazilians I've talked to have said their country is really sexual and that there's couples engaged in public foreplay everywhere along with super revealing outfits worn by all the girls. As for El Salvador isn't banning cheerleader outfits because they turn men on a sign of being repressed?

North Korea literally executes people for creating porno videos. They deserve a pretty low spot.

@Warrior

I can see why you were confused. I put Mexico lower because I think that US customers seem to be fueling a huge part of their sex industry rather than locals fueling it.

@pistola

This has absolutely nothing to do with me.

@IceyLoco

A lot of the Catholic countries are really sexual though. Brazilians I've talked to have said their country is really sexual and that there's couples engaged in public foreplay everywhere along with super revealing outfits worn by all the girls. As for El Salvador isn't banning cheerleader outfits because they turn men on a sign of being repressed?

North Korea literally executes people for creating porno videos. They deserve a pretty low spot.

@Warrior

I can see why you were confused. I put Mexico lower because I think that US customers seem to be fueling a huge part of their sex industry rather than locals fueling it.

I've also heard that sex is so badly understood in North Korea that a 13 year old boy having a wet dream was thought to be having a nightmare by his village. It may be an atheist country but its also an extremely authoritarian one. Its actually not even that atheist given that Kim Jong Un pretty much demands the population worship him as a god.

Not sure why my perception is not 100 percent accurate to you because it most certainly is to me. My NUMBER ONE country or those women that I have played with FROM that country is KOREA! I absolutely LOVE KOREAN women. They are beautiful, have the most fantastic tits, are tight as hell (disadvantage for me, but whatever), and they absolutely ALWAYS PLEASE their man/customer/Jon or whatever. They honest to goodness WILL NOT LET YOU LEAVE UNSATISFIED!!! All other countries just don’t compare!

Frenulum

I really want to try Thai and Vietnamese. The Asians are absolutely my kryptonite!

^ The he-shes aren't my thing, but have fun with that.

"And you realize Brazil is a country where men are expected to be dominant with women and lead every step of the way, as is Latin America in general."

This isn't about which country suits my personality best, its about which country has the most sexualized culture.

I couldn't include every country on the list. I just tried to get decent representation from various regions.

@Nidan

I think a lot of Asian girls are really cute.

Also where on Earth are you getting this idea that North Korean teenagers have some kind of free love culture?

That was directed to IceyLoco

I assume Nidan was referring to South Korean girls.

How do you measure "perceived" sexual permissiveness?

Laws? Porn? Hot women? Media? Google Search?

I only worry about the sexual permissiveness of the females I'm interested in fucking.

@Cristobal

Good question.

I'd say think about how much sex seems to be important to that country and is it displayed semi or fully publicly. Don't think too much about private behavior. So take into account the size of that country's sex industry, how revealing the clothing that girls wear is, how sexualized their non-pornographic media is, how loose their laws are on sexual behavior, what levels of PDA are acceptable in their country, how much people talk about sex there.

IceyLoco kind of has a point that we're not necessarily talking about what the most liberal country is but rather which country has the most sexualized culture.

How do I measure sexual permissive? Ummm. Not sure, but after she gives me a fantastic table shower, BJ, 69, DATY, HJ AND FS all for LESS than any VIP at a SC... I’m convinced that they are just fucking sexual dynamos.

@flagooner. Not once has an Asian presented herself with an attached penis. But, the night is young. One never knows in the world of mongerdom

^ Maybe you should come to Austin then ;)

@CC99

Mangaia, Cook Islands

@ Nicespice. Lol. Is that an invitation?

@Nidan

I'd say you can measure it by looking at laws, the dollar value of the sex industry and total number of prostitutes when compared to the population of the country, how frequently you see girls wearing revealing outfits, how frequently you see PDA and in what kinds of places (anywhere or just in nightclubs/bars), how common it is to see sexual themes or content in their non-pornographic media, how much of daily conversation revolves around sexuality. Stuff like that.

Don't take private behavior into consideration. Only take into consideration how much sexuality makes its way into public life.

I think Latinas in general have a more liberal attitude of sex.

@IceyLoco

Your theory assumes that people have a lot of leisure time to have fun in North Korea. Living there means you're basically a slave to the government, North Korean citizens are starving and can't even find food a lot of the time, a huge percentage of their population is in the military, and they have very repressive laws that control how people conduct themselves in pretty much every way possible. While I don't think the North Korean government cares as much about repressing sexuality as the Saudi government does, they really are not a sexualized culture in any way.

I will give IceyLoco a lot of credit however for the fact that he responded in a list format as the question asked, something nobody else did.

Yeah Brazil is a country known for beautiful women who barely wear anything on the beach, but it's also a very Catholic country where women still wait for marriage for sex.

Oops. Sorry. Here is my list. . Korea.

@IceyLoco

That's not true, its always present in some forms. And by being present in the public life, I don't necessarily just mean you walk around on the streets in a day and see something. I'm talking how public is the culture of that country about sex. What we're doing right now, I consider being public about sex because we're talking about it frequently and without a filter. In the 1700s and 1800s, the way we're talking right now would've been considered extremely inappropriate behavior. Back then you always talked about it in a very indirect way, like this question in the 1700s would've sounded more like "what countries have the most morally licentious attitude towards life." Even that would've been considered a controversial question unless you talked to radical philosophers and academics. Back then it was more likely used as a statement of superiority. Like "the French aristocracy are known for their morally devious conduct in private."

Do you actually think people are lying about North Korea and its some country with a relative level of freedom? Its a totalitarian country that has been condemned worldwide. Even China has been trying to distance itself from North Korea lately, although I don't know if its a moral thing for them. North Korea is an absolute shithole, we try to send humanitarian aid to North Korea because we hate to see their people starving and Kim Jong Un just takes it for himself. Its not like they don't have sex but its not like they have all that sexual of a culture either. I don't know where you're getting this idea that they are obsessed with presenting images of beautiful girls. To me they just seem obsessed with showing off military might.

@JamesSD

They don't wait until marriage. Brazilian girls usually just wait until they go on a date with a guy but they're extremely relaxed about making out with random guys. Like guys often go to nightclubs there or carnival celebrations and make out with several different girls but they don't take any of them home with them for sex. For sex you have to show the girl you'll commit to like a date for example but that's pretty much it.

I'm not sure why people talk about girls all wanting to wait until marriage or stuff like that as if its a serious thing. Friends of mine from the Middle East say even most people in the Middle East don't really wait until marriage. And the guys who have harems of wives, yeah they do wait until marriage but its not like a very long wait for them lol, its just show up, get married and fuck. For all intents and purposes its almost as fast as a one night stand.

@Icey

But as we both mentioned, there's a difference between very sexualized as opposed to very liberal. You won't find anywhere near as much revealing clothing, prostitution, and PDA in Iceland or Sweden as you would in Brazil. But furthermore, those countries are not part of the list.

The US probably has one of the biggest ONS cultures in the world. But I think countries like Iceland, the UK, Sweden, Germany, and a few other European countries have even more of a ONS culture than America does. Having a big ONS culture doesn't make it easy for you to have sex if you don't have a personality suited to that sort of thing though. For example, the culture that would be best suited to my personality would probably be a culture with a lot of matchmaking by third parties instead of a culture that expects each person to independently seek out their own partners. I have told my mom before that I would have no problem with her setting me up with a girl but right now she's too worried about my brother to do that for me, which, I understand because he's a lot older than me.

Its not really the people in North Korea who are demonized, its the government. And quite frankly the government deserves all the vitriol they get.

Those women are dressed and acting very conservatively compared to the girls in this video.

youtube.com

I agree that I'd probably have a harder time in Brazil. Like I said, this isn't about which country is best suited to my personality. The country that would be best suited to my personality is a country with a lot of matchmaking done for you by friends and family so probably one of the Asian countries.

"In cultures with match making, they expect the man to be very dominant."

Most of the men I see from those countries are skinny and shy af. Wtf are you talking about? Being the provider for a family isn't being dominant.

Nobody really talks about the people of North Korea separated from the implied consequences of what the government has done. The worst thing people really think about the North Korean people is that they are brainwashed by the regime.

Its not like the way the people of Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, or Iraq are seen where a lot of people think they might be terrorists or religious nutjobs.

I think you might like Kumi Koda, she's got more of a provocative "mature sexy" image and less kawaii sexiness.

Having different roles in a relationship/family is not a sign of power dynamics. Traditional cultures respect the role of the housewife and a lot of the women want to be one, that doesn't mean that the man is acting as a king with a subordinate. Some housewives in Japan are known for obsessively contacting and stalking their husbands to make sure they aren't cheating and are the main decision makers over the finances of the family. Apparently quite a few men actually like their wife doing this though cause they take the frequent contacting as a sign that she loves him and some of them don't want to make the decisions regarding money even if they're the ones making the money.

North Koreans are brainwashed. The amount of lies and propaganda they are exposed to is insane. No government in the entire world tries as hard as North Korea does to isolate it's population from the rest of the world. But that being said, there is a bit of an underground market in North Korea of smuggling films from the US into there. Some things manage to get in but breaking the rules in NK is very dangerous.

I thought you might like her. She kind of seems like a Japanese version of Christina Aguilera to me.

Its not as dangerous as it is in North Korea especially given that the US has an extremely large rule breaking culture. I agree that we have overly harsh laws but its ridiculous to compare us to North Korea. How can you, with a straight face, compare us to a country with absolutely no freedom of speech that would actually kill you if you lived in North Korea and said the same things about their government that you're saying about the US government? People who've escaped North Korea would be the first ones to tell you that there's absolutely no comparison.

That's not a power dynamic. Everybody asks each other for advice and it makes sense that a girl would act feminine. I used that as an example that just because they're housewives doesn't mean they fit into the narrative of a locked up and oppressed housewife that feminists push onto people. A woman can be a housewife and still have an equal role in the relationship.

Police brutality in America is incredibly exaggerated. Cops who kill you when you have not attacked them are violating the law and can be arrested and prosecuted. There are about 700,000 cops in America, you can't expect them all to be saints. You get asshole cops every now and then but they are not a tool of the government to suppress free speech. At the same time though, the cops are the ones dealing with some of the most dangerous people in the country so there's bound to be instances where a criminal tries to kill a cop and the cop has to fight back. I almost never see cases, however, where a cop just shot somebody for no reason.

What's going on on Twitter and Facebook are lynch mobs created by average civilians, that's not a government thing going on.

Anyone who says they'd rather be poor in America than rich in Germany is a fucking idiot. I'm not with the "America is #1" crowd, but we are a liberal democracy, we are doing better, objectively, than all of the second and third world nations which are the majority of the world's population. North Korea is competing with Syria for the most brutal dictatorship in the modern world.

That's not a power dynamic. Every team and project assigns different roles to different people. Its when one person decides his role in the team is more important than all the others and tries to become a dictatorship that you have power dynamics. Power dynamics are not natural to heterosexual relations, certain people just want to act like they are so that they have an excuse to try and overpower their partner. My parents have no power dynamics in their relationship, all the most healthy relationships I've ever seen, and my family has a lot of examples of healthy marriages, have no power dynamics. None of the guys in my family are playboy types. My family does not try to sleep around, but the guys in my family are great at choosing the right kind of girls because not a single one of the men in my family have ever been through a divorce and given how common divorce is nowadays that is impressive.

Power dynamics are absolutely toxic to a relationship, it prevents two people from ever truly loving each other the way you're supposed to. But its okay for people to have different roles as part of a team.

I’m gonna list mine on more time just In case there was confusion .... . KOREA

I cannot State just how much I fantasize about ASIANS! Koreans are my FAVORITE for absolute certain!

"Okay, they why aren't you and your brother doing as well with girls as everyone else?"

Nobody in my family is all that good at getting girls. We don't have any playboy types in our family. But all the guys in my family are very good at picking the right kind of girl and building a healthy, loving relationship with that girl. None of the guys have gotten divorced. Me, my brother, and my cousin have all really struggled. I know that all of us would be amazing boyfriends to a girl who truly loves and accepts us for who we are, but if a girl is so short sighted that she can't get over my shyness and awkwardness in order to have a loyal boyfriend that would do anything for her, then I don't think she deserves to be with me.

I certainly don't feel qualified to rate the various countries. I don't see how anyone else is either. So if you are drawing from some source we could read, please share it. I think it is a very complex subject. Some countries to seem to have a free love ethic, but then the United States has been in a conservative back lash for some time.

I think some of it just depends upon how the young women dress, that sets the tone for the entire culture.

Then it is also going to be different looking at civvies versus pros.

Misterwonderful cites Latinas. Okay, but the Latin peoples are basically just descended from the Latin Countries, those which were part of the Roman Empire, and they tend to be Catholic instead of Protestant.

Are you saying that Catholic countries are more sexual permissive than Protestant countries?

SJG

Progressive Jews Finally Getting Some Voice:

ifnotnowmovement.org

younevertoldme.org

@SJG

So the point isn't actually to have truly and completely accurate data. Discussions are fine, but the point of this thread was to actually see what people's perceptions were rather than to make a list with UN level accuracy.

Well if it is just perceptions, then I would say that the Latin Countries and Scandanavia are very good, as is most of Western Europe.

The US is so so.

But things will not get bad until you look at Islamic and Third World Asian countries.

But what I would like to see is some published data and analysis.

SJG

The US is pretty well above average is most ways. On the prostitution issue specifically we're a bit backwards but at least we have strip clubs with two way touching and kissing and stuff like that so things could be a lot worse even on that front. I'd rather live in the US than Sweden or Iceland. I'd also rather have the US strip club format where its possible to have OTC interactions and build a kind of relationship with a stripper than have a wham bam thank you ma'am style brothel that might be present in some countries with legal prostitution. The main thing is just that everything is so expensive in the US.

Well, all the accounts here make Mexico sound best.

But for civvie relationships, I think there are advantages to Netherlands, Denmark, and Scandanavia.

SJG

I'm not making this list with a mind towards "the best countries" simply a matter of facts. As I said, I put Brazil as the most sexualized country but I don't think it would necessarily suit my personality best.

That's true but they also expect both parents to work and I think that kids need their mother to be at home with them.

^^^^^^ I think most people feel that that is simply a way of controlling women. As as such, it is more exploiting children, than doing anything which is for their benefit. In the middle-class family, the exploited workers are the children, because were only born in order to give public identity to the adults.

As far as these countries, the Latin countries have hot hot women. But they are also very conservative countries. So the women are like that because of strong gender role rules. So if they are not P4P, then they are seeking marriage. Their culture is based on dividing women into two categories. And this will always be harsh.

Whereas Netherlands, Denmark, Scandanavia, Iceland, in my impression, will have hotter and freer civvies.

The US is only so so in comparison to any of this.

SJG

Its not controlling though, its just a matter of having different team roles.

The two categories are very controlling upon the women!

SJG

Not the madonna/whore thing, the role of housewife is not inherently controlling. Its just a different choice.

The role of housewife is one most women in the US do not want, and for good reason.

The madonna/whore things is extremely controlling upon all women.

amazon.com

High level of restriction and control on both groups of women, one cannot behave like the latter. One is denied dignity and legitimacy. This is how patriarchy has always been used to control women, dividing them into two categories.

SJG

"Why should they sacrifice who they are?"

Why should I sacrifice who I am?

Its always the man who's expected to make the sacrifice in every situation. Whenever a woman can't get a boyfriend people tell her to never settle and that she deserves her George Clooney or whatever. If a guy can't get a girl he's expected to lower his standards until he can. No matter how low those standards might have been to begin with. Now I'm willing to make sacrifices in some situations but I just can't on this one, its too important. My standards really aren't that unreasonable. All I ask for is this...

• Decent looking girl 5+ in looks.
• Accepts me for who I am and looks past my shyness.
• Sweet, empathetic, and nurturing.
• Has a cute personality.

That's it, that's literally all I ask for. A year ago, all I asked for was for a girl to be 4+ looking, make her affections obvious, and not be a bitch. All the other stuff came recently. If a guy who's looks are a 6 on most days, 7 on good days, from a high income family, who has a very gentle and disarming personality in real life can't find a girl willing to meet those standards then there's something broken about the majority of females' standards and I'm not going to participate in a system that is rigged against me because I'm male. I'm not the only guy who's decided to opt out. Guys are opting out in droves now and the number of guys opting out of the system is growing all the time. Society is going to have to address this eventually or we won't be able to reproduce. As for me, I'm fine with spending the next year or even three-four years relying on hookers and 2D girls to keep me happy and sane. If nothing has changed by then, maybe I'll consider moving to another country and seeing if things are better elsewhere.

@CC no matter where you go you take yourself with you, if you aren’t a success here why would you be a success there ?

@twentyfive

Girls look for different things depending on what their culture raised them to look for in a guy.

@IceyLoco

Its almost entirely unsuccessful guys and other women who are the ones telling some women to lower their standards. Probably because a lot of girls' have extremely high standards. I think you have really high standards when you feel like you have to meet in a certain way or it isn't romantic enough.

I make the effort when I'm already in a relationship. Once I'm in one, I'm great at listening to people, I am very affectionate to girls, I constantly think of things that would make them happy. If I was in a relationship I would constantly be thinking about vacations we could take together, dates to go on, gifts to buy, all sorts of stuff. I would be extremely good at being a boyfriend, but my seduction skills are absolutely abysmal. Unless I find a girl ready to overlook that, I have no chance. There are girls who will overlook that but so far all the girls I've met who would have already had boyfriends or weren't looking for one.

CC you’re all you’ve got, her cultural upbringing won’t change you or your own view of yourself, if you keep looking for the lowest common denominators all you’ll find is negative.

What do you mean by looking for the lowest common denominators?

You’re affinity to engage with miserable folks Remember misery loves company

A new country, a new language, it can let one develop and entirely new persona.

SJG

Stanley Clarke Herbie Hancock & Chaka Khan Live youtube.com

Switching countries ain’t gonna change the Soy Boy Beta Cuck vibe!

We've talked about Catholic countries where the civvies are held to conservative rules, but then they have hot hot pros.

Well Ireland is a Catholic country, but by my perceptions there is nothing desirable or appealing about its women. They look to be very anti-sexual.

But Ireland was not really a part of the Roman Empire.

SJG

Will you please change your screen name from CC99 to SBBC. Thx

@Icey

Why is it so important to you that I act like the kind of guy you think I should be acting like?

^ because whatever it is she/he’s a miserable prick and as I pointed out to you misery loves company

Well I guess I'm going to be waiting for a long time then. But when I do meet her, she's going to be very special though.

In the meantime though, I can be perfectly happy with pure fantasy. I've spent most of my life in fantasy worlds, whether through TV, video games, or books. Fantasy is what feels familiar to me. Even a fantasy of real life. It's what I'm used to, I am perfectly happy getting to experience a simulation that is realer than real. I have a very vivid and active imagination that is good at filling in the holes.

I know that the world of fantasy holds a better life for me than most of reality does and I've accepted that. But you know, it's kind of a buzzkill when you're constantly going around trying to remind people that their fantasy is fake. It's not the fact that it's a fantasy that makes people dissatisfied it's when other people are constantly trying to break their fantasy and remind them that it's fake or not the real thing. If you really want to help people, stop trying to ruin their fantasy, help them improve it and make it feel more real even if it isn't.

Or when people are constantly trying to tell them reality is better. People love fantasy for a reason, just let people have their fantasies. If a fantasy makes them just as happy as reality then why is one better than the other?

CC reality is fine iceberg slim hasn’t gotten a grasp on it any better than you, difference is that is a miserable person, don’t know why you’d give any credibility to that !

Well it's not really about grasp on reality or not. I have a good grasp on reality actually and that's specifically why I'm choosing something else. I'm okay with the fact that I can't attract a gorgeous girl without paying her because I'm not looking for some sense of accomplishment out of this. I just want the sensual experience of being intimate with a girl that I think is adorable in a physical and mental sense. For that reason, the fantasy of being intimate with a girl like that is just as good as reality. It's actually better because I know that if I'm stubborn about insisting that it be real that I may never have that experience I'm looking for.

That bitterness wasn't there until people tried to break my fantasy and insist that reality was better. The bitterness is the result of feeling that they have something I don't. I haven't been to a strip club in a long time because I have a very large car payment related thing that I need to pay off first. But during the summer, and many people here have said they liked me a lot better when I first started posting than they liked me latter. The reason is because during the summer I was happy. I was seeing strippers every week, often times twice a week. I was getting lap dances every time, I would hang out with my favorite strippers for hours. For the time that I was in the strip club, I felt like I was in heaven. It may be an experience bought and paid for, but feeling my ATF sitting in my lap nuzzling her head into my neck was an amazing feeling. Being able to look forward to having that feeling again alone made life worth living.

When the fantasy was gone I wasn't happy anymore. I got bitter again because I was forced to participate in reality without a fantasy world to escape to. Towards the end of the summer I had almost completely gotten over my bitterness. What I've tried to tell you before is that allowing myself to have a safe, fantasy world to retreat to makes it easier for me to do better in reality. When I'm forced to constantly "face reality" though, I just become bitter, resentful, and withdraw from people as much as possible. When I have my fantasy world though, I don't feel like I'm missing out or that the frat guys and party girls have something I don't. I actually prefer the fantasy world of strip clubs over the party lifestyle frat guys live because it feels more intimate. Even if I did join a fraternity, and even if I did become a stud that all the girls suddenly wanted to fuck, I would still feel the stress of relentless peer pressure if I wanted to keep living that way. At all times, I would need to act in a way that they approve of. Being able to have fantasy girlfriends instead of real girlfriends allows me to feel independent of people's approval. I don't feel like my happiness is dependent on doing what they want me to do and that freedom is very liberating for me. If a girlfriend is going to be "real" then I want her to be a real girl who won't destroy that freedom for me. I don't want a girlfriend that is only dating me because I have high status and she wants to show off to her friends, I'd rather pay a girl and have it mostly just be between me and her than do that. So much of what a lot of the normal, popular people do in college is a show put on for other people. Even a lot of the "fun stuff," is just a show. The show is what I object to most.

I think I feel jealous that popular guys seem like they can have any girl they want, but my mom one time told me that she thinks I've always had the ability to attract girls and that I'm just doing something that is putting them off. In the end, I know what would probably get me laid a lot, but I'm discovering that the trade-offs that I would be required to make in order to be one of those guys is not worth it to me. I would probably become more bitter and resentful if I did go down that route because I would feel like no girl authentically likes me and all the guys were still douchebags who expect me to act a certain way to get their respect. I've seen some guys online who described being former loners who decided to just suck it up and become popular and they said it has actually increased their resentment for exactly this reason. Completely keeping my distance from that lifestyle is the healthy choice.

TL;RD: I'm not missing out on anything by choosing to participate in fantasy worlds instead of reality. In-fact, I have discovered it is the better choice for me. So please respect my decision to make that choice and stop insisting that I go out and be a normal college student.

CC99, I have to admit that I don't completely understand what you are going thru. In my experience, girls are moved to a degree by looks. But to an even greater degree they are moved by persona. And one gets this by the experience of asserting one's self. The benefits of working out will come later, after one has learned to assert themselves.

Now about sex, its just like it is with Nicole, lots of reasons to decline sex. No one can tell you otherwise.

And you are right for refusing to let people degrade you, saying that you are engaging in fantasy or delusion.

I do think though you are proving my hypothesis, that for many young men in college, getting through smoothly comes down to voluntary celibacy. Its just necessary to avoid senseless drama and energy drain.

Mostly I think you will just find your own ways of asserting yourself, and this means in all kinds of situations, not just hitting on girls. This is what worldly confidence and experience mean.

About your OP:

You get the full version of this: youtube.com

In it they talk to a prostitute, she says, "Girls go to disco, they get fucked from rum and cola, whereas I get fucked for 50 gilders."

Well in the Netherlands you hear lots of talk like that, about girls getting fucked in discos, and not connected with college campuses. I don't hear stuff like that about the US. Never seen such. Their ideas are just different, less religion, less relationship advice books and less day time talk shows, less excuses not to fuck.

SJG

Gimme Shelter, version which had been up, then taken down, now back up, played a little bit slow, I think Paris or Netherlands, seemed to establish the standard for all the subsequent Lisa Fisher versions: youtube.com

I think one important thing that I would tell a high schooler who's about to enter college is to not have his expectations so high. TV, movies, the way that people on the internet and even some adults I knew in real life portray college as this kind of heaven-like environment where you spend most of your time getting attention from hot girls and sleeping with them. I would tell him that although that lifestyle exists, and that there are a lot of parties that are relatively easy to get into, it doesn't necessarily mean that you will have an awesome sex life. For a lot of guys, their "college experience" is spending most of their time on the couch playing video games, watching TV, trying to convince their roommate to take the trash out, and arguing about politics with their friends. When I was in high school though, I was told two different things. One side was that college was essentially a ticket to an orgy, where you have sex with hot girls every day and night. The other was that nobody parties and they just spend all day and night studying. Youtube was available to me and I saw people having parties and stuff like that so I knew that the later was bullshit so I assumed the former was true.

What is actually the case though, is that the lifestyle the former talks about is there. Its not like that lifestyle doesn't exist, but that lifestyle might not be as glamorous or inclusive as you think it is. If you are not able to live that lifestyle, or don't want to, then don't freak out thinking you are wasting your life. Freaking out because you don't have access to sexual intimacy with hot girls all the time is equivalent to freaking out thinking you are wasting your life because you're not making a six figure salary. There's other ways to have your need for intimacy fulfilled though. I think what I'm trying to do is legitimize the use of those methods and show people that there's nothing wrong with doing that and in many cases might be the better option for a lot of people.

When I was heading off to college, I did expect it to be a good experience, but not an especially hypersexual experience. It panned out as expected.

I was not attracted to any party school image, or anything like that. For me, sex does not connect to such an image.

I still say, contradicting Icey, that college is often not a sexual paradise, despite the large number of young women.

San Jose has 1 million people. So if you say average life expectancy is 80 years, and you want a 5 year window, then that is 1/16th of the population. That is way more than the student count at most universities.

Now true, not on a campus, or within walking distance. But college shapes the daily lives of people. It is not necessarily that conducive to sex.

I mean it usually will be a plus, just no longer living with your parents. But if instead of living at UCSB, Elliot Rodger lived in an apartment in San Jose and had a job, he could ask girls out and probably do alright.

College is still too much like adolescence, and especially at your more elite schools, where the average age is the lowest.

In the organization I am building, these contradictions are eliminated at the outset.

SJG

More proximity to more young women, yes.

But often with a compromised social and civil standing, and the can more than makeup for the number of young women. And then under lots of time pressure for school.

An extension of adolescence, and that can really suck.

SJG

My problem isn't actually that its "an extension of adolescence." Its actually that it wasn't. Or maybe that its a different kind of adolescence from what I experienced in high school. My college's culture is actually a lot more like an 80s high school film than my actual high school was in that often times it feels like the jocks and cheerleaders here rule the school in the form of frat boys and sorority girls. My high school wasn't really like that. I think what I really miss about my high school though was the intensity of the emotions around me. I still feel things very intensely. I still feel this deep, hormonal need just to touch a girl, to makeout with her on the couch for hours at a time without it progressing beyond that, to have that kind of relationship where you can't get enough of each other. Where just being around each other makes you feel like you're in heaven. What makes me sad is that it feels like a lot of the people around me don't feel that way anymore. I didn't come to the realization this was happening until last year. I asked a friend of mine why no girl I dance with, or makeout with, or even on the rare occasion slept with wanted to see me again. He said "this is college, these girls just wanna fuck you and never see your face again, and then fuck a different guy next weekend."

It might sound like an exaggeration but from what I've seen of the frat guys I do know, that really is how things are here. My roommate never has sex unless its on a weekend party night with a girl he just met. I thought that maybe if I went for girls who weren't hardcore partiers that I could find a girl who wants more than that, but then I discovered a lot of those girls just don't want anything. No ONS, and no relationship either. Its like nobody here seems to crave the touch of the opposite sex like I do. The people who do seek sex just seem to want to "score" and have no desire for anything beyond that, and the people who don't just want to hookup don't seem to desire relationships at all. Everybody here wants to be single. Seeing a couple here is so rare that seeing one walking around campus makes me feel like I saw an endangered species.

One thing that really fuels my sense of loneliness is feeling like very few people relate to what I'm feeling. Growing up, my parents and a lot of adults kept telling me "girls are emotional, they want to be in love, they want a guy to care about them and make them feel important." But no girl I've ever met in real life has been like this. All the girls I've met IRL seem to want to keep guys at an arms length and dislike it when guys try to get close to them. They want to just use them for hookups or use them only for a casual friendship and nothing else. Being on TUSCL doesn't make things better, I thought most of the people here were PLs like me but it turns out most guys here are just more dudes looking to "score" as many notches on their bedpost as they can. I often wonder if we are this way just because we've all been hurt so badly that nobody can bear trying to make sex anything more than a casual hookup anymore. So often it feels like the people in their 20s considered the "coolest" are the ones who care the least.

Is this what adulthood is like? Constant glorification of emotionless sex with NSA? I just wish I could be in high school again, people were actually hornier but they were also really emotional and it didn't feel like everybody was so scared of them yet. Now we've all been betrayed by people, we've all been hurt very badly, and its making it hard for us to try and connect with another person again. Some people here have made fun of me saying I act really immature for my age. Its because I don't really want to be a 21 year old who fucks around. I want to be a 14 year old who feels butterflies in his stomach when he sees his crush and daydreams about her all day. But I want for my "crush" to finally say yes to me and not reject me. I still have so much emotional baggage from that girl who rejected me seven years ago. Until I feel that feeling, of finally having a relationship with that sweet girl next door, I don't think I can ever move on to adulthood because I will always feel like something is missing. That my life is incomplete, that I didn't do something I needed to do. But I worry that time is running out to find something like that, or that maybe time has already run out. The older I get the more that wanting that will come to be seen as "creepy." And then what am I going to do?

I hope you are right, I don't know why I never meet girls like that though.

There was a discussion about getting food between me her and another friend. The guy said he was not hungry so we were hanging around for awhile before he said "weren't you guys going to get food?" Then she said "yeah but then it would just be me and CC." He said "what's wrong with it just being you and CC." so she replied "I guess nothing really but I thought we would get a group to go."

So yeah, I also asked my friend later what that was about and he said she told him "it wouldn't matter if it was CC or Jesus I'm not ready to be in a relationship right now."

It sucks but I guess that ain't happening.

That's part of what confuses me is because she acted before like she did. At one point literally days before that she took my hand and squeezed it for like ten or fifteen seconds. True not like she kissed me but it felt like it kind of meant something.

Its weird though that she would actively try and prevent it from happening. Another friend of mine suggested she was shy but I was like, shy or not shy, if she really liked me wouldn't she still want to go if she thought that everybody else thought it was normal? It seems odd to me to actively prevent it from happening unless she just lost interest somehow.

I've told this mutual friend that I like her and she knows that I like her. It seems to me that there might be a worry on several sides about the group dynamic being messed up if we dated. I remember telling my friend that I liked her and he said to me that he would try to help me as long as I promised to be cool about it if she didn't want to date me and that I would be okay with continuing to be friends with her and not demand for example that he not bring her over if she didn't want to go out with me. I told him that was fine, and since that's happened I still do treat her like a friend.

At my shower show