I didn’t get laid in high school

Ha! Honey would enjoy that too.

Sounds like a scene from the movie "The Last American Virgin"

I think it’s a great idea. But I’m high.

Fucking loser

Don't forget to cum in 30 seconds if you want the experience to be "authentic".

Lol... @SirLapdancealot

And get your ass kicked by the jocks

LOL @Cristobal tip and ask the club bouncer if he didn't mind putting on a letterman's jacket and to barge into the room after 31 seconds.

@muddy I will dress up like a cheer leader

Cheerleader outfits are hot, but I think the schoolgirl outfit might be even hotter.

Don't forget to tell her she can't get pregnant because it's her first time.

After Biff catches you looking at his GF, he and his buddies dunk you in the toilet.

^ don't forget about the atomic wedgie.

Why is it always up to guys to make a move? Girls are the ones who are least likely to get rejected and talk all the time about how so and so guy was creepy, they should do it. It's either get called a pansy or get called creepy and I'd much rather be considered a pansy than be considered creepy.

^ what if you're considered a creepy pansy

Wanting something doesn’t make you a creep. Not taking no for an answer does. One thing a player tends to have going for him is the ability to be outcome independent and move on to the next female if she says no. Thus females feel more at ease with that kind of male and it helps his success rate.

The aggressive cat calling dudebro and the “friend zoned” guy are closer to each other on the scale (in female minds) than you think.

Laughing at the don’t forget to cum in 30 seconds comment. Reminds of a buddy in high school. He was dating a very, very hot girl. We were 16 or 17 at the time. She came over to his house after school. No parents home. They went to the couch for fun. She sat on his lap. He jizzed in his pants instantly. They had not even started kissing yet. Ouch!

"Not taking no for an answer does."

That's exactly what playboy types do or they just assume the answer is yes and act accordingly.

Nice guys assume its a no until they know its a yes. They're anxious because they're always on the lookout for "is she trying to say no to me in a polite way but doesn't know how?" So that they can just excuse themselves without the girl needing to bluntly reject them. That's the complete opposite of not taking no for an answer. Girls putting them in the same category as dudebros are being ridiculous.

@CC/DC you are confusing a nice guy with a pussy pansy with no self confidence and no game with women. A nice guy with self confidence and at least some game is simply going to respect the girl's response for what it is and not psychoanalyze it to death.

And ROFLMAO you telling nicespice how a girl should categorize her men is a bit ironic when you are admittedly inexperienced with women. It's ridiculously ironic.

I think Beta Cuck has a bigger vaginal than Stanky and Nicole combined. I mean the depths of the stupidity and emoness is cavernous. Is that what CC stands for? Cavernous Cunt?

Pistola you've never struck me as being very intelligent at all. So you probably shouldn't try calling people stupid. That's basically the same as if I laughed at somebody for having no game.

Speaking of game, I'm not trying to game a girl. I'm trying to find a girl who accepts me for who I am and is willing to love me the same way I'd love her. Even if I did change and became a total playa bruh, how would that help me? By allowing me to sleep with a bunch of girls I have no respect for because I had to become something I despise in order to have sex with them?

muddy9. don’t feel alone. i was a late bloomer too.

@CC99 my definition of game just means having the ability to give off your own sex appeal to a woman whether physically or through conversation. Whether she's a wham bam thank you ma'am one night stand or your future soul mate it doesn't matter. And it starts with attitude unless you have Adonis like looks.

And besides, how's you being "who you are" working out for you in terms of meeting said woman that accepts you for that and wants to fuck you for "who you are"? Is it working out?

And I'm not saying you have to become what you despise to get a woman. I'm just saying that if you don't at least have the right attitude and make an attempt to look or act in a way that women find attractive then you won't even have a chance of meeting someone you love. The way you come off instead based on your earlier post is that you are anticipating and being anxious of rejection per your definition of a nice guy. That's a horrible attitude. It's a pussy pansy one.

I can't give up. I want the world to be a better place for guys like me, that'll never happen if I give in and change. I have a very strong desire and ability to love a girl. I really don't believe that many guys are willing to love a girl as powerfully as I would. Any girl would be lucky to have me if they just could get over the fact that I'm shy and weird. If they can't see past that, they don't deserve me. I can't just love any girl, only a girl who is really sweet, kind, and nurturing. By being shy and weird, I can filter out the bad girls from the sweet girls. Because the bad girls want a guy who's powerful and dominant. A girl who really has a good heart won't care about that. By doing this, I can make the world a better place. We can raise good kids, who feel the same way.

^ I'm guessing you come on way too strong and smothering. It scares them off.

@CC/DC my point is that by being shy and weird you're not going to have the greatest odds with finding that girl who's really sweet, kind and nurturing. And by overcoming your shyness it won't fucking change who you are to the point that you'll not find that girl. My wife is wonderfully sweet, kind, and nurturing - exactly what I want - and it wasn't my shyness that won her heart. It was because I had some game and made an attempt to impress her as much if not more than other guys that wanted the same with her.

Also LMAO you come across as if this filter method is going to land you your ideal woman and I'm just saying you don't have the best batting average... likely because your filter is also filtering out that woman you desire.

As stated how's all that working out for you?

"I want the world to be a better place for guys like me, that'll never happen if I give in and change."

^ Sounds like the lame excuse for a pussy pansy to avoid developing some game.

It's a ridiculous assumption. What you are saying is that by finding the woman of your dreams by being a pussy pansy then all of a sudden it will enable all other pussy pansies to get their ideal woman the same way. It's a ridiculous assumption if not a blatant logical fallacy. LMAO you're on a high horse about being a pussy pansy with women.

Oh and how's it all working out for you?

I can't give up. I want the world to be a better place for strippers like me, that'll never happen if I give in and change. I have a very strong desire and ability to give good lapdances. I really don't believe that many strippers are willing to give valuable time and attention to a customer as powerfully as I would. Any customer would be lucky to have me if they just could get over the fact that I'm shy and weird. If they can't see past that, they don't deserve me. I can't just dance for any customer, only a customer who is really sweet, kind, and nurturing. By being shy and weird, I can filter out the customers who attempt to get handsy from the sweet guys. Because the bad customers want a dancer who's powerful and dominant. A customer who really has a good heart won't care about that. By doing this, I can make the world a better place. We can together make strip clubs a better place to work.

All trolling aside, DC, this is why a few months ago I recommended you take up a once-a-week gig where you are only paid in commission. So that you can learn to have surface level conversations and better practice reading people’s emotions and intent.

In your case, you are afraid of appearing creepy because of your social skills, so you aren’t the best at altering your behavior in different social situations. I get it and I have empathy for that.

And having concern for others is a good thing—but poor social skills isn’t who you *are* and you CAN improve in it.

We ALL have our weak spots. Some people have slow metabolisms and have to be more careful about diet and exercise than others. Others may not be good at managing time and are constantly late to things. It is what it is.

But if you want to improve your life, then I do recommend listening to SirLap and accepting the constructive criticism. Or you can instead get bitter at males who do have more success in that area, and dislike them. (And get trolled on this site for it) Your call.

...OR if a 100% straight commission sales job is not a good suggestion, then how about another role? You said you liked girls who care about animal rights or the environment? You could volunteer for once of those organizations (or any other cause that you think is a genuinely good one) where you help get people to care about those goals too—whether asking for donations or explaining to somebody why they should do xyz in their daily life.

The reason I am suggesting all that is you will be able to learn how to communicate in a way where people will want to listen to you. You’re influencing—not dominating nor manipulating.

Believe me DC, I understand the mental conditioning that makes it difficult to separate that sometimes too. In my case, I could write a shit ton about my childhood that led me to having low self confidence and I still struggle with that sometimes.

But I have also done a LOT of improving in that, thanks to dancing. You don’t have the option to dance, but you have the potential to improve as well.

DC - you think believing in the best the world can be makes you an idealist. It just makes you naive or young. You need to be confident or at least project confidence. If you’re not confident, fake it until you are. No girl will respect you if you don’t respect yourself. The girl who falls in love with your present self will not stay in love with you, or you will not stay in love with her.

I’m actually shopping for a heerleader outfit at one of these sex shop can’t find one. Maybe I gotta go custom made at some online place. I thought this was kind of a common fetish though shit shouldn’t be that hard

*cheerleader

@Muddy9 you might be able to find one at a Halloween costume store if any are open this time of year.

@NiceSpice your "trolling" is honestly a valid excuse. I think the strip club this hypothetical dancer wants to create would be a great place. If I heard that for real I wouldn't think it was stupid at all. In strip clubs, I'm not anything like I am in the civie world. I do approach dancers in strip clubs because its only fair. My chance of getting rejected for a dance is like 1%, maybe not even that because its never happened before. Its absolutely tiny whereas the dancer has a much bigger chance of getting rejected by the guy. So I make it easy for them and just approach them myself. I have in-fact, approached shy and weird dancers who are sitting alone, along the side couches and bought dances from them. Whenever I've been in a position to do so, I have intentionally befriended the weirdest kid in the room, even if other people laughed at me for it and even if they ostracized me for it. Furthermore, I would defend them if I ever heard people talking shit about them behind their back. Even when I was young I did this. In middle school, I was friends with a girl that everybody thought was too weird. She talked about not believing in the concept of time, not believing in birthdays, or holidays, many other things that caused other kids to write her off, but I didn't. For a couple years or so, I was the only friend she had.

I just want a girlfriend who'd treat me the way I'd treat myself if I knew me.

I'm bitter towards those guys because they are successful with girls despite being complete asswipes, and instead of condemning this behavior society has instead chosen to act like its cool somehow, exalted them, and tries to compel every guy to act like that. I'm actually not bitter towards guys that are successful and aren't asswipes. I don't dislike Tsukune from Rosario for example even though he has a "harem." I wouldn't feel bitter towards a real life version of him either, because he's a good guy. Several months ago, like around September or so, a girl I liked chose to date another guy instead of me. And even though I was a bit upset personally, it was definitely a comfort when she described the guy and I realized he was actually a really good guy. So I didn't feel bitter towards him and actually later on when she complained about his lack of assertiveness I defended him. I also didn't feel bitter towards the ex-boyfriend of yours you described who was successful. I just feel bitter towards a lot of them because so many men who are successful are also assholes and I feel that people are rewarding them for being assholes instead of trying to correct them.

Last year, around this time actually, I did volunteer at the local animal shelter. I couldn't continue going though because it closes surprisingly early so the times it was open conflicted with my class schedules and I felt myself being compelled to skip in order to make it.

@Jimmy McNulty

Perhaps that's evidence then that its actually young people who have the right idea about how our world should be, and adults who should listen instead of just accepting things as they are. Massive historical changes in the average person's empathy have occurred. As late as the 18th century, lots of people watched public executions for enjoyment. I read somewhere that in the 17th century some kings would have cats burned alive because they thought the cat's screams were funny. Nowadays, wanting to watch these kinds of things would rightfully be considered extremely disturbing and evidence for being a psychopath or a sadist. A lot of people in the historical past were extremely cruel and unfortunately these traits were not especially uncommon. Even when I listen to how my dad described growing up in the 70s, things seemed a lot rougher. He told me that kids would beat you up if they thought you were weird or just not strong enough. And that this was a common thing too. And it wasn't just elementary schoolers but high schoolers doing this too. I've seen kids get ostracized and made fun of, but never physically assaulted.

Basically what I'm saying is that the world can change. We don't have to accept it as it is. And it can change a lot faster than you think.

LMAO how's it working out for you?

How about instead of focusing on whether its working for me or not, you actually tell me why the fuck we should continue a system that is stupid? Now I'm not completely unwilling to compromise. Let's say guys still need to ask girls out, I don't think anybody would call a guy creepy for asking a girl out. At the very least, however, girls should be in charge of initiating all the physical/sexual moves. Here's the risks for a guy who does this.

- 80-90% chance of failure.
- High chance of doing it wrong somehow, making the girl feel anywhere from a little uncomfortable to sexually assaulted.
- If the later is the case, even if the guy did not intend to do so, he just sexually assaulted a girl and may now go to prison or have his life ruined.
- If the guy fails but doesn't fail in a creepy way, he may still get made fun of by everyone as a loser.
- At the same time people will call him a loser for not trying.

In essence, there's an insane amount of pressure on guys in this situation. Girls?

- 75% chance of success at least, possibly 90%.
- Guys will never falsely accuse a girl of sexual misconduct.
- make a move or don't make a move, either way she is just an empowered female.
- Gets to dictate exactly how far it goes.

So why the fuck are we telling men to be the initiators when they are the ones with everything to lose, and girls have almost nothing to lose by initiating sexual stuff? And why the fuck are you people trying to keep this absurd system the same?

The point is that the only reason you see the system as "absurd" is because you lack the ability, unlike a lot of guys, nice ones too, to work with it and develop some game with women. And no, this doesn't fucking change who you are as a person.

Until you understand this point from others' perspectives, not your own mind you, there is no point in having a discussion.

The whole fucking point is for you to quit blaming "the system" like a pussy pansy and all you do is respond that you are somehow justified in said blame.

And to me, you are only "justified" in your actions if they produce the result that YOU desire. Hence my repeated question.

1. “girls have almost nothing to lose by initiating sexual stuff”

Girls get labeled as sluts/whores. And being a slut/whore means it’s okay to sexually harass and assault us. I’m not going to gripe too hard, because I think the trade offs are worth it. But it is what it is.

2. Luckily for you, it’s a heck of a lot easier to convince one or several females to go on a date than it is to convince society changes its norms.

Slut/whore doesn't mean much anymore. Its barely even a stigma now. At the very least, a tremendous number of people are willing to back you up if somebody calls you a slut.

A guy gets labeled a creep, pervert, sexist, and misogynist. With those labels, nobody is on your side, you're doomed.

“girls have almost nothing to lose by initiating sexual stuff”

^ this is a prime example of you shifting blame/responsibility. How the fuck do you know? Are you a girl or have girls personally told you that this is true?

And then you want to converse about it as if it is 100% fact? When you are just making your own fucking anecdotal observation from your naive and pussy pansy perspective?

"A guy gets labeled a creep, pervert, sexist, and misogynist. With those labels, nobody is on your side, you're doomed."

Many guys go through their lives without any of these labels from any women. The guys that get these labels *could* be misunderstood but also *because* they are actually that.

Stop deflecting. I have solid evidence to prove that my system is better. Men have the risk of actual legal consequences following their actions that will impact them for the rest of their lives. The worst thing that could happen to a girl is maybe some people call her a slut. Which will then result in a large contingency of girls saying you shouldn't slut shame and another large contingency of guys who say the same thing. At the very least, probably 50% of society will be on your side even if you get called a slut but probably more like 70%. Furthermore, girls will be called a slut whether she initiates or not, if she lets it happen at all she runs a risk of being called a slut.

Any before anyone brings it up. Sex workers are definitely a different situation because that carries a different taboo/stigma attached to it that just being a promiscuous girl doesn't.

@SirLDK

Possibly, which is further evidence for why its better the other way around. If girls have to initiate everything sexual, then there's no chance for a guy to be a creepy pervert in the first place because he's not socially allowed to make a move.

See why this works better for everyone?

It only works for the pussy pansies that can't comprehend that maybe it doesn't work for the girl.

As to the guys that aren't pussy pansies, it may work too, but then again the existing "system" works too so what's the point for them.

See how you are so myopic as to make an ASSUMPTION that this works for everyone, including girls, even though you have NO CLUE that it is true?

I'm not deflecting. Stop making anecdotal observations like this:

"I have solid evidence to prove that my system is better. "

^ all your points to support this aren't facts. They are your myopic opinion and anecdotal observation.

Men can also fucking ask a woman out with zero risk to legal consequences. Stop turning you anecdotal observations into statements of fact.

I'd say some men are pushed to be creepy perverts by society because society says if you cannot get laid you're a loser. Especially the hyper-masculine side of TUSCL who thinks you not only should initiate, but posits that only a man with confidence and dominance is respectable. How you guys don't see how this could lead to sexual assaults is unbelievable. You just want to justify men thinking with their dicks and not having to control their impulses at all is what the side you argue for amounts to. So stop acting like I'm the only one with a personal interest in this. Furthermore, you might just not be able to see the benefits of anything that doesn't uphold the status quo.

Read the shit I post. Don't skim.

"Now I'm not completely unwilling to compromise. Let's say guys still need to ask girls out, I don't think anybody would call a guy creepy for asking a girl out. At the very least, however, girls should be in charge of initiating all the physical/sexual moves."

Read the shit I post. Don't skim.

"Now I'm not completely unwilling to compromise. Let's say guys still need to ask girls out, I don't think anybody would call a guy creepy for asking a girl out. At the very least, however, girls should be in charge of initiating all the physical/sexual moves."

^ keep on channeling your inner Bruce Jenner, see how that goes
No homo

Keep justifying an idiotic system,
No dummy.

^take two midols you’ll feel much better

"Read the shit I post. Don't skim.

"Now I'm not completely unwilling to compromise. Let's say guys still need to ask girls out, I don't think anybody would call a guy creepy for asking a girl out. At the very least, however, girls should be in charge of initiating all the physical/sexual moves.""

I read the shit you post. Read mine. Now you're deflecting and assuming I didn't see that. Even with that statement your blanket statement that you have this foolproof "proof" that you have a better system is flawed based on your assumption that your anecdotal observations are statements of fact.

"I'd say some men are pushed to be creepy perverts by society because society says if you cannot get laid you're a loser. Especially the hyper-masculine side of TUSCL who thinks you not only should initiate, but posits that only a man with confidence and dominance is respectable."

^ How the fuck do you know for a fact that a man suddenly became creepy and a pervert just because society called him a loser because he couldn't get laid? It's this kind of anecdotal observation assumed as fact that discredits the rest of your points.

How you can't distinguish between anecdotal observation and fact is what's unbelievable.

"How you guys don't see how this could lead to sexual assaults is unbelievable. You just want to justify men thinking with their dicks and not having to control their impulses at all is what the side you argue for amounts to."

That's not what I want to justify whatsoever. That you assume it's true amounts to you making your own misunderstanding of what I said as if it is a statement of fact.

"So stop acting like I'm the only one with a personal interest in this."

^ So stop assuming that I think you are the only one with this issue. Again you make another fucking assumption.

"Furthermore, you might just not be able to see the benefits of anything that doesn't uphold the status quo."

Furthermore, your logic based on your myopic opinion, naivete, and anecdotal observation may not be received as a statement of fact by others.

My evidence is common sense. Guys hardly ever reject girls. Single guys' desperation is notorious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ba-jfC3L…

Here's your proof SirLDK. Basically every guy either said yes or had an incredibly polite way of saying no or just said they couldn't have sex that quickly but still wanted to hang out. That's despite her very awkward and nervous way of approaching them, but the guys didn't care. If that's her success rate just walking up to random guys in the street, imagine what the success rate would be if girls approached guys the normal way? It'd be extremely high. What guy would reject an average looking girl? I don't know any. I know guys that are willing to fuck 300 pound women just because they initiated. So with little to no risk of rejection, no risk of legal consequences, no pressure put on them by society to get laid, why on Earth is it guys who have to initiate sex and not girls? Answer me for real, stop posturing so you look like a stud "who gets all dey bitchez" in-front of the rest of TUSCL.

You clearly didn't read what I said because none of this argument is about asking girls out on a date. Its about initiating physical/sexual moves.

I do wish the video had chosen a more average looking girl. She's a bit too pretty, skews the results, but still good info.

It doesn't happen overnight, but why do you think frat guys are more prone to sexual assault? The guys who are in the highest position of social status on campus are three times more likely to rape than other guys? It certainly couldn't have anything to do with the hyper-masculine environment they surround themselves in where the guy who fucks the most girls is given the most respect right? Or the fact that they might be seen as weak, losers, pussy pansies if they can't get laid?

That's not proof at all. That's a one time test using a pretty hot girl. It needs all kinds of girls to be a little more "valid". And there's no test of the opposite with various looking guys. Get the fuck outta here with more of your anecdotal "proof". Also look up the term "confirmation bias" because that's all your "proof" is.

"You clearly didn't read what I said because none of this argument is about asking girls out on a date. Its about initiating physical/sexual moves."

You clearly are missing the bigger picture of my points because they apply whether or not it is just asking out or if it's initiating sexual moves. Talk about deflection. Or nitpicking.

Alright here you go. Attractive guy asks 100 girls. That's enough to constitute a scientific sample size.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjR9F9tP…

Now I will say that I respect them for not doing it. Nevertheless, however, it reflects a huge imbalance in rejection rates based on gender. I agree she was too attractive for the experiment. But objectively, this guy is probably too attractive for this experiment as well and he still struck out every time.

Asking a girl out is not the same as initiating a sexual move. Initiating a sexual move is kissing her or putting a hand on her leg and stuff like that.

"It doesn't happen overnight, but why do you think frat guys are more prone to sexual assault? The guys who are in the highest position of social status on campus are three times more likely to rape than other guys? It certainly couldn't have anything to do with the hyper-masculine environment they surround themselves in where the guy who fucks the most girls is given the most respect right? Or the fact that they might be seen as weak, losers, pussy pansies if they can't get laid?"

^ This is more continuation of you making false assumptions and/or anecdotal observations. Observe:

- frat guys are not in the highest position of social status on a college campus. I had many guy friends both in and not in frats and there's no fucking common understanding that frats give a guy higher social status. That you assume this says a lot about you more than them.

- you assume that frat guys rape because of a hyper-masculine environment or fear of being called a pussy pansy but yet you are an anecdotal observer of frat life from the outside.

I'm done because all you do us keep basing all your can't get laid theories off of anecdotal observations. I'm making the same point and all you do is provide me more examples. All you are doing is operating on your own confirmation bias and if you can't recognize that, there's really no more point in exchanging posts with you.

"Alright here you go. Attractive guy asks 100 girls. That's enough to constitute a scientific sample size."

Reread my earlier response to your female video. Neither video constitutes any scientific proof. And yes I fucking know about statistics and data and conducting an experiment that is statistically valid. But no I'm not going to unpack it for you because you still can't acknowledge your own confirmation biases.

Damn.
I couldn't argue that much if I wanted to.

I didn't get laid I high school either.
I think that's part of why I enjoy the fantasy of the SC. The fantasy of enjoying/playing with a young desirable lass is just freaking wonderful.

Enjoy your outing Muddy, great idea

Guy who can't get laid has solved how to get laid for all other guys. ROFLMAO!

@gSteph I got laid in high school and college but I was always the type to have a steady GF and never played around with a lot of girls. And FWIW I enjoy the strippers for the same reasons!

I haven't solved it yet, it would be solved if societal norms made sense though and were actually fair.

You're the one trying to claim guys and girls have an equal chance of getting rejected and that the potential for false accusations of sexual misconduct based on gender is equal. The fact that girls are much more likely to reject guys than the other way around and much more likely to make false accusations of sexual misconduct is common knowledge, you didn't accept this though so I actually gave you proof. How much proof do you need for something that constitutes common knowledge?

https://reason.com/blog/2018/10/17/senec…

When do guys ever do things like this? Have you ever heard of a guy falsely accusing a girl of sexual assault? Cases like that are practically non-existent.

CC/DC Your continued assumptions, false at that, about what I'm saying and not fucking saying is why I am done with you on this topic.

And you are so incapable of distinguishing anecdotal observation and true fact that to use facts with you and point out your incorrect facts is more work than the actual topic itself.

If you keep posting this way, all I'm going to do is highlight this.

You keep calling it anecdotal observations so that you don't have to address the evidence. I gave a lot of proof and you simply came up with ways to dismiss it in your mind because you don't want to address what I said. I said the system I'm suggesting would work better for everyone. Sexual assaults would go down, false accusations would go down, shy guys could get girlfriends, girls can feel safer around guys knowing they are mostly pacified and aren't being pushed by other guys to get into their pants, gender relations would improve because you wouldn't have nearly as many bitter people. There's no reason not to advocate strongly for what I'm suggesting, both girls and guys can benefit from it. Feminists will like that it reduces sexual assault and puts women in an empowered position of choice, MRAs will like that it reduces false accusations of sexual misconduct, lonely virgins will like that it will encourage girls to overlook their shyness, regular women will like that they don't have to dodge men catcalling and harassing them nearly as much, average guys will like that this takes some of the pressure off of them. It may not benefit the guys who get laid a lot already, but, it won't really hurt their chances. Shy girls might be at a slight disadvantage, but we can mitigate that by having guys ask girls out first, but then leaving the physical/sexual stuff for the girl to initiate. Given that guys should wait for a girl to feel comfortable with sex before proceeding, this can still benefit shy girls so that guys don't push them into sex before they are ready but the shy girl will always know that the guy is interested and up for it when she is ready.

I've thought about this from every possible angle and thought about the interests of every group I can think of. The evidence is clear, we would all have better lives if girls were the initiators of sexual/physical stuff. What possible reason could you have for being against this?

Furthermore, you can't provide any evidence for why the current system is better than mine. Most of what you're doing is just finding ways to dismiss everything I said. The closest thing you came up with was saying that the system works for some people just fine. Well how about all the people that the current system doesn't work for? How about all the people who'd benefit from the system changing?

CC/DC Your continued assumptions, false at that, about what I'm saying and not fucking saying is why I am done with you on this topic.

And you are so incapable of distinguishing anecdotal observation and true fact that to use facts with you and point out your incorrect facts is more work than the actual topic itself.

If you keep posting this way, all I'm going to do is highlight this.

LMAO dude who can't get laid finds every excuse and reason that he can't other than the simple possibility that he's simply completely not giving women something to be attracted to.

He'll write pages on the issue, going so far as to blame society and elaborate on theories based on false assumptions and anecdotal observations.

LMAO.

#1 The stigma against females sleeping around doesn't exist anymore? You yourself want the female who is "shy and weird" so that you "can filter out the bad girls from the sweet girls." Who are these bad girls? The ones who sleep with the types of males you dislike (guys who are in frats, or jockish, or whatever as you perceive hogging females) Aka the sluts.

#2 "A guy gets labeled a creep, pervert, sexist, and misogynist. With those labels, nobody is on your side, you're doomed."

Okay, the ball is in your court for further explanation. Has something happened in your personal life to be labelled any of these things?

By anecdote, I personally know somebody who faced an outright false rape accusation. It was a stressful situation, but he certainly had people on his side (including me) His parents got a lawyer. Under scrutiny, the girl ADMITTED to lying. Charges were dropped. Sure it sucked but he was far from doomed.

Oh and btw, the reports of false rape accusation are far lower than of the suspected underreporting of sexual assault.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/21/health/wh…
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/18/us/ka…

#3 "Any before anyone brings it up. Sex workers are definitely a different situation because that carries a different taboo/stigma attached to it that just being a promiscuous girl doesn't."

Yep. A promiscuous girl is one step above on the whorearchy. There is a reason women lie about their number of sex partners. https://www.healthline.com/health-news/m…

#4 "Especially the hyper-masculine side of TUSCL who thinks you not only should initiate, but posits that only a man with confidence and dominance is respectable. How you guys don't see how this could lead to sexual assaults is unbelievable."

Call out screenames of who you perceive as the hyper-masculine offenders. If any of them are one of any of the 13 men I've met IRL, let me know and I'll give you feedback. Oh sure there has been a naughty few I've had to move hands away on, but the obnoxious factor on that is way lower than normal when compared to the general SC populace. There have also been a naughty few who asked me to meet up in their hotel room as well. And somehow, it ended with me saying no, doing a few fun dances/having fun conversation anyways, and them moving on to source elsewhere.

I guess I'd give an overall summary of confident, but not dominant.

#5 "The rise of young male sexlessness isn’t about Chads and Stacies; it isn’t primarily about Tinder or Bumble; it’s not mostly about attitudinal shifts in what women want from relationships; and it’s not mainly about some new war between the sexes. It’s mostly about people spending more years in school and spending more years living at home. But that’s not actually a story about some change in sexual politics; instead, it’s a story about the modern knowledge economy, and to some extent exorbitant housing costs. As such, it’s no surprise that rising sexlessness is being observed in many countries. This, in turn, suggests that finding a solution to help young people pair up may not be as easy."
https://ifstudies.org/blog/male-sexlessn…

#6 Even if it is TRUE that a few Chads are monopolizing massive harems, then why are you trying to advocate some system of controlling their behavior and limiting access? Go fourth and enjoy and hope the good times never come to an end.

#7 "How about instead of focusing on whether its working for me or not, you actually tell me why the fuck we should continue a system that is stupid? Now I'm not completely unwilling to compromise. Let's say guys still need to ask girls out, I don't think anybody would call a guy creepy for asking a girl out. At the very least, however, girls should be in charge of initiating all the physical/sexual moves."

It's not a matter of what you can and can't compromise. You have a utopia fantasy. Which is okay, as I have my utopia fantasy as well. But deciding that the world will always be wrong when you can't have the utopia...yeah well...

It's a heck of a lot easier to go ask 1000 girls on a date, and get 5 to say yes (I even used very conservative numbers here--it would probably be higher than just five) then it is to get millions of people to go along with *your* particular utopia vision.

Dammit @nicespice, you know I can't resist threads you are in.

"You're the one trying to claim guys and girls have an equal chance of getting rejected and that the potential for false accusations of sexual misconduct based on gender is equal."

^ I never made either of these fucking claims.

You are the one that simply continues to make false accusations. This is yet another fucking example. It's clear that you don't even fucking know that you do it.

"Dammit @nicespice, you know I can't resist threads you are in."
Do I sense a flirtatious comment? I will send my feminist army upon you! Sirlap is the resident CREEP.

Oooh and I want to make point #8

My particular "type" of male I've dated in the past was the goofy and nerdy type of guy with a sense of imagination. NOT the bodybuilder loudmouth "alpha" type. That didn't stop me from getting into more than one controlling and abusive relationship. :o Not saying goofy and nerdy guys are evil, but they aren't the virtuous class of men that you seem to enjoy portraying.

"Most of what you're doing is just finding ways to dismiss everything I said."

Most, if not all, that you are doing is starting an argument with me based on something I never said. You dismiss this basic fact. So yes, I'm going to keep dismissing a lot of what you say because making assumptions on something I said but didn't isn't my fucking point to argue to fucking begin with.

And the irony to all of this is that you told me to read your posts when it's clear you have not read mine.

^I suspect the ratio of non-abusive nerdy guys is similar to the ratio of non-abusive frat dudes.

"Do I sense a flirtatious comment? I will send my feminist army upon you! Sirlap is the resident CREEP."

So says the stripper with an avatar showing off her spectacular all natural breasts. And one that's down with the L, the D, and the K. I got a creep alright...in my pants...

@nicespice BTW I love the term 'whorearchy'. It was worth the read. Brilliant!

LMAO the whorearchy spectrum is likely as wide and with a similar bell curve distribution as the playa one.

Also @nicespice I think the only way of really knowing if there is an epidemic on "not getting laid" is if there were statistically valid distribution curves as to the number (and percent) of men and/or women that lost their virginity and at what age. And moreover, has this data changed over time (for either sex). For discussion sake, let's take 18 yr olds. What % of them are still virgins? Is this the same or different between men and women? Are either of the percentages changing with different generations? From this we could understand if there is some sort of "problem" with the ability of either sex to get laid for the first time. And if the "problem" is changing with time.

Hmm. I think they do exist somewhere actually. I’ll have to look it up in more detail.

From my guy friends in HS and college, the range of ages where they lost their virginity was 13 - 25. My best man and friend from college was the 25 at the top end. He didn't lose it until after college. I was 14 personally for myself and my GF at the time was 13 and she was also a virgin. My wife considers herself late in losing hers at 19 as a college freshman. If I were to guess from the people I know, over half of them were 18 and below and it didn't matter if they were male of female.

Well at least NiceSpice is actually giving a real argument, SirLDK is just being an idiot/troll right now.

#1: I wouldn't say the stigma doesn't exist, its more a matter that it is either exaggerated or is not nearly as severe as some people claim. There are a lot of of slutty girls, if the stigma was actually harsh, there wouldn't be anywhere near as many as currently exist. I'd liken the stigma of being a slut as similar to the stigma of smoking weed. Maybe there's some people who'll judge you for it, but a lot of people won't and furthermore, a lot of people are advocating for the stigma to be eliminated entirely. Nobody is advocating for the stigma against being a creepy pervert to be eliminated, but that also means that mistakenly placing the label on certain people has severe consequences for their life.

#2: Many many many examples. My brother was dating this one girl, she cheated on him and fucked another guy, then tried to cover it up by filing a false rape claim. I have known two people in managerial positions falsely accused of sexual harassment. One guy managed to avoid it because the store had cameras and they showed the cameras to the police who were able to prove nothing happened. Another guy had a more complicated situation. A girl would continuously grab his ass at work, it happened several times, one day he grabbed her ass. Nothing happened at first. Some people then made a joke about how the girl has a fat ass, and the manager sniggered at it a little. The girl was extremely offended, went back home and claimed to have been sexually assaulted when he grabbed her ass. The cameras showed her grabbing his ass before, but because he was a manager, he is not allowed to grab hers under any circumstances, so he was fired. I know another guy in a group I knew from high school who was accused of sexually assaulting one of the other girls. This guy I'm talking about is one of the most docile people I've ever known. She spread the rumor that he had sexually assaulted her though, and later admitted it was fake, but for a long time, everyone believed her. He was so traumatized by this that he has never recovered. Even to this day, he is so anxious that he barely talks to anybody. That same girl who accused him, also called me creepy when I was 13 because I liked her but was very awkward about it and tried to talk to her but struggled to get sentences out of my mouth because I was so anxious. When I was 17, a girl took me into a classroom and started making out with me. It was pretty blunt, we started hooking up for a month. One of her friends however convinced her it was creepy because I was 17 and she was 15 and that even though there was only a two years age difference, that I had somehow taken advantage of her. So she spreads this everywhere. For awhile, I was called a creepy pervert by many people despite the fact that everybody knew about this and had been okay with it before. A few months later, she admits that I had done nothing wrong, that she had initiated it, and that her friend was basically jealous. At this point, people stopped calling me one, but it was possibly one of the most soul-crushing moments of my life when this was going on. There were times I went to dinner with my family and couldn't speak a word. A friend of mine's dad got accused of sexual harassment, the only reason it got dropped was because witnesses were able to say that he always insisted on keeping the door open and that the girl who harassed him was actually trying to shut the door so that she could accuse him. I know several other people who've told me about somebody they know getting falsely accused, these are just the people I know directly. I know enough stories that my parents have told me not to fuck random drunk girls at parties anymore because the potential for a false accusation is too high in environments like that. Rather instead get to know a girl and make sure she isn't the type of girl who'd do this. Both my mom and dad agree on this.

Sexual assaults are under-reported but by definition every fabricated rape claim to the police is also reported which means a higher percentage of rape claims are false accusations than it appears. In addition, lots of false accusations happen as a part of "rumors" spread by a girl that don't end up being a police claim but can still ruin a guy's reputation among the people he is with.

#3: I guess we agree here so moving on.

#4: Hmm, Jester, IceyLoco, Pistola, Dominic, RickDugan, Daddillac, some guy I had an argument with back in October but don't remember his screen name, and several others have essentially advocated that being an attractive man requires the guy to dominate women sexually and that not doing so makes you a pussy. Furthermore, almost this entire site has a milder version of that and thinks that being anxious when it comes to making moves on girls is a sign that "you're a pussy" somehow. Too many people have said something of this nature for me to point out but this viewpoint seems to be shared by the majority of the site. This may be hard to determine because the members who don't share this view tend to not post very often but it is extremely common.

#5: That's what the article says despite the fact that all the evidence they gave proved the opposite point. Spending more years in school and living at home usually isn't a deterrent from having sex. What they said in terms of "attitudinal shifts in women's expectations from relationships" is basically a really fancy code term for what many guys have been saying for years that certain guys are basically developing unrecognized harems. My theory is that the sexes are being pitted against each other by the current system. There's no reason to be fighting because the solution benefits the majority among both sexes. It only requires that the top percentage of men make small sacrifices and that the average girl make short term sacrifices for long term benefits.

#6: Because its more important to have a system that allows for the largest percentage of people to have their needs fulfilled than it is to have a system that allows for a minority of people to have absolutely everything. Most people will be reasonably satisfied if they have something. It doesn't have to be absolutely perfect, but they will not be deprived to the point of suffering from excruciating psychological pain. If some people are suffering from this kind of pain because of the system we have, then its time for it to be reworked. Sometimes that requires telling people who already have a very good life and will continue having a good life even under changes to make what is really a tiny sacrifice so that somebody else doesn't have to live in misery. I think the basic problem is that Tinder allows these guys to remain permanently available instead of finding a girl and taking themselves off the market until their relationship either runs its course or becomes a lifelong commitment. Furthermore, with so many people saying that cheating is okay, that will mean even if they do date somebody, lots of people still think those guys are de-facto sexually available to other girls and it is assumed that they are more likely to cheat so that extenuates this.

#7: I'm not opposed to guys asking girls out. I think girls should be the initiators of physical and sexual stuff though because men have proven that most of us can't really handle this role. You have two extremes: One guy is too aggressive and ends up sexually assaulting girls. The other extreme is guys like me who don't know what the fuck I'm supposed to do so they opt out of the process entirely because the situation is too much pressure. Too much balancing between too aggressive and too shy. I stay on the safe side of things because the idea of causing that kind of harm to a girl is enough to crush my spirit and my soul so I don't ever want to risk doing that but apparently sticking to the safe side of things causes people to call you a pussy, loser, or whatever. There's no way to win. Stay safe and you're a pussy, go the other way and you risk hurting somebody. I refuse to do anything that hurts anybody even if I get called a pussy for it. But at the same time, I am miserable and lonely because of the choices I have made. But the alternative is becoming a bad person, and I cannot do that under any circumstances. I'd rather just kill myself than become a bad person. Thankfully though, I now have hope that this won't be a permanent condition, but even if I manage to find a special girl. What about all the other people who are going through the same thing I am and have gone through and believe there's no hope in sight? What if they kill themselves, because I didn't advocate for a new system that could help them? I would be selling out to every other person going through the same pain I am by supporting the current way of doing things. Under this system there's way too much sexual assault, way too much rape. And there's way too many girls taking advantage of this atmosphere to falsely accuse people they don't like of committing heinous acts which damages the credibility of rape victims and destroys the lives of innocent men. There's way too many people who are absolutely miserable. If somebody doesn't come up with an idea to relieve that misery, they may never be able to stop being miserable. If I was miserable and find a way to stop being miserable. I have an obligation to lift every other person out of that misery too.

#8: Although its still possible, from what I've seen, the chances are significantly reduced. I don't think the ratio is equal. That being said, I'm very sorry about the bad luck you've had in the past. Abusive relationships are one of the biggest problems I'm trying to fix. By detaching power dynamics entirely from sex and relationships and eliminating the assumption that there has to be a dominant and submissive partner in each relationship and by eliminating the expectation of men to sexually dominate women. If its not equal then its broken. Its okay for people to have different roles in a relationship but that doesn't make one person the submissive partner and the other the dominant one.

LMAO CC I'll stack up my posts vs yours anyway in this thread as to who's are more idiotic.

I've shown you time and again exactly where your posts have flawed logic AND where you make a claim that I said something but actually didn't. This is all what makes you an idiot and what makes discussing anything with you an exercise in futility. I even quote your words exactly too so it is cystal clear, but with me you just flat out lie about what my position is and when I point it out you just dismiss it and then continue to repeat the same issue and make more stupid and false assumptions. It's clear to me and well documented that this is how you conduct your "discussions", so really there's no value in conversing seriously with you. You don't actually read and comprehend what I write. Just like an idiot.

LMAO CC you should get a PhD in how not to get laid.

Its your fantasy go for it!

Also, I have to agree with Nice SPice in this thread.

The keys to success with bitches

- Stay in your league or improve yourself.

- Be confident and assertive, by this I mean know what you want and what you bring to the table. You're the prize, not her.

- Treat her like a queen. Be a bit of an asshole to others. They want a bad boy... at least try looking like one.


Now, the problem with "nice guys" is the fact that they're not really nice. They're guys who think that acting nice to a bitch entitles them to her pussy. When they don't get it they blame all women, throw tantrums and shoot shit up.

Bitching about why guys have to make the first move is absolutely pointless. Its based on biology but the truth is, when she really wants you, you'll know it.

My success rate is pretty good. I've gotten every girl I had a crush on. With random girls I just want to fuck, I'd say around 75%. With stripper hoes, I'd give it 90% . I'm not bragging, but I follow my own advice. I know my league, I stay in and I make bitches realize I'm the prize.

@CC here is a good example (of many) of how you responded to me as if you refuted my point but clearly didn't read it because it doesn't really address it. Again just an example of many.

SLD: That's not proof at all. That's a one time test using a pretty hot girl. It needs all kinds of girls to be a little more "valid". And there's no test of the opposite with various looking guys.

CC: (responds with ONE YouTube video of a good looking guy) Alright here you go. Attractive guy asks 100 girls. That's enough to constitute a scientific sample size.

^ A classic example of CC the idiot not really addressing what I said, which is "And there's no test of the opposite with various looking guys.". CC's response was still just one test with one good looking guy which is not anything what I stated.

Then he acts as if the issue is "proven" and resolved and goes on to even more points that are also based on anecdotal observations and false assumptions.

@CC as stated this is just one example that took some effort on my part to point it out. It's literally too much work to have to resolve these misunderstandings on your part so get off your high horse as if I'm just being an idiot/troll. You're an idiot that can't fucking read what's written in black and white in your face. And you still can't distinguish between facts and your anecdotal observations. So what's the point in a serious discussion?

And the irony in all of this is that you accused me of skimming through your posts. Look yourself in the mirror on that!

Can't read? You're not satisfied with a guy getting rejected a hundred times and not having one success vs a girl who succeeded almost every time? We're talking about an 80% vs 0% success ratio with a guy and a girl who are about on the same level of attractiveness. You demand more and more proof despite the fact that I gave you very solid proof. If an attractive guy strikes out that often you really think the results will be different if I found a video of an average looking guy? And furthermore, you really think that an average looking girl would get rejected by 100 guys? There are guys willing to pay the nastiest girls you've ever seen substantial money in order to fuck them. Almost nobody questions the existence of a large number of desperate single guys. You're basically arguing that the sky is not blue, then I sent you a photo of the sky being blue and then you say that a photo of the sky being blue isn't enough evidence of it being blue. Which leads me to think you're just trolling at this point. You wouldn't be satisfied with any amount of evidence, you'd just find a way to call it an anecdotal observation.

Which is why you should just step out at this point. NiceSpice replied with real arguments, with points and links to other sources which is why I lended her argument the respect it deserved whereas all you do is dismiss everything without providing any points of your own which leads me to think your only objective here is to irritate me.

@IceyLoco

Who you're attracted to is more sociologically created than what most people think. You are actually a perfect example of this. You are consistently attracted to a kind of girl most guys here don't like. Not saying that to offend you, but whenever you create threads about the girls you like, most guys reply saying they are too trashy or they don't like tattoos. You respond saying you like tattoos on a girl. Sociologically, you look for girls that you think share your values and you think that a tattoo is at least a passive sign that she shares your values in some way. There are girls who are attracted to and like shy guys, they do this when they think the shy guys are more likely to share their values. My basic opposition is that I think girls who are attracted to bad boys are so because their values are based around wanting to be around a guy who is powerful because they think being associated with his power will make them more powerful. What you mention is my point, she wants a guy who is mean to other people but not to her just because she wants to be a partner in crime with him. It is based around wanting to look down on other people and exert power over them. I want a girl who is not looking to exert power over anybody. Rather, I am looking for a girl who wants to take care of and nurture the weak. If she lacks attraction to me because I'm weak, perhaps she lacks a sense of nurturing or empathy towards weak people in general. Which means she doesn't agree with my values which is that the weak should be taken care of and protected and that a society where the strong overpower the weak is fundamentally immoral.

Yes you can't read. And you still can't. Your entire response is still just an example of you ASSUMING that you addressed and refuted one point but fundamentally still didn't. You basically lack good fundamental debate skills and continue with it. And you refuse to step back and recognize this in everything that you post.

Bottom line is that you *think* I'm the one dismissing what you say but you are doing it and don't even realize it.

It all leads me to believe you are an idiot that can't recognize his own flaws at debate, much like you can't recognize your own (very simple) flaws that keep you from getting laid. Let me give you a hint, dullard: it's not society or the fault of any "system" within it.

Look yourself in the mirror on both of these points.

You still have no points to make and additionally are persistently trying to make this entirely about me when the conversation is more so about how it would benefit everybody, and I'm just one of those who would benefit. You still have not offered a single piece of evidence to show that the current way of doing things is better than the way I'm suggesting. Now's your chance.

"Rather, I am looking for a girl who wants to take care of and nurture the weak. If she lacks attraction to me because I'm weak, perhaps she lacks a sense of nurturing or empathy towards weak people in general."

^ Or perhaps she's simply not attracted to you because you are not attractive, BUT she still has empathy for you, the unattractive weakling. LMAO you then try to justify it all as HER issue, but really it's quite possible that it's simply an issue with you.

That could be the case some of the time. It depends on whether she dates other guys like me or not. If she dates other guys with the same personality traits, I'm more inclined to think she just thought they were more attractive than me.

CC posted -> "You still have no points to make and additionally are persistently trying to make this entirely about me when the conversation is more so about how it would benefit everybody, and I'm just one of those who would benefit. You still have not offered a single piece of evidence to show that the current way of doing things is better than the way I'm suggesting. Now's your chance."

^ You still have deflected and dismissed and avoided several of my points and moved on with it as if all of it is resolved. And it's clear you are incapable of recognizing this, so as I already told you I'm done with having to try and address anything that you have issue with with me. Hold yourself to your own standard. Just because you think a point is resolved doesn't mean that I do. You ASSUME that. Which again is a fundamental issue with how you debate. You still don't get it.

"That could be the case some of the time. It depends on whether she dates other guys like me or not. If she dates other guys with the same personality traits, I'm more inclined to think she just thought they were more attractive than me."

It could be the case ALL of the fucking time. You have no fucking idea on what it "depends on". You are not her.

This is a classic and yet another example of you making an ASSUMPTION and then jumping to a conclusion on it.

Learn what fucking confirmation bias is. Learn how you have a habit of doing it and recognize when you do do it.

Learn what the difference is between anecdotal observation and fact and also learn to recognize it in your own arguments.

Learn to literally read what someone else writes and learn how NOT to make a false fucking assumption on it.

Learn NOT to deflect.

Learn what a fucking strawman argument is and how to recognize it in your own debates.

Until you can address all of these issues with yourself, there is no point in anybody having a "rational" discussion with you.

There is only one point you've made and its not even a real point. All you've said is basically "stop blaming the system." But the system doesn't work for a lot of people and I have a better one. So instead of proving that the current system is actually better than mine, you just keep continuing your line which is just "stop blaming the system and improve yourself!" If we were to ever follow your advice, we'd still be living under monarchies with absolute power because everyone screeched at the radicals to "stop blaming the system and improve yourself" when that system doesn't work for some people. "Stop blaming the system" is not a point, its a cop out. If I was in the same position as you are in right now, I'd be trying to show evidence for why my system would put more people at a disadvantage when it comes to finding romantic partners and why it wouldn't reduce sexual assault or possibly raise sexual assault than the current system does. But because you can't show any evidence for this, you don't choose that route, instead just insisting that we respect the status quo and work with it instead of changing it so that it works better for more people.

"But at the same time, I am miserable and lonely because of the choices I have made. But the alternative is becoming a bad person, and I cannot do that under any circumstances."

^ Yet another example of you making an ASSUMPTION there is no other alternative than becoming a bad person in order not to be miserable and lonely.

And no, I'm not here to debate this actual point. I'm here to point out that you've used confirmation bias and made ASSUMPTIONS in order to "conclude" that becoming a bad person is your only solution. Give me a fucking break.

"There is only one point you've made and its not even a real point."

^ DEFLECTION!

"Under this system there's way too much sexual assault, way too much rape. And there's way too many girls taking advantage of this atmosphere to falsely accuse people they don't like of committing heinous acts which damages the credibility of rape victims and destroys the lives of innocent men. There's way too many people who are absolutely miserable."

^ There's way too many FALSE ASSUMPTIONS in this.

"Who you're attracted to is more sociologically created than what most people think. "

^ An ASSUMPTION has been made as to what most people think. And an ASSUMPTION has been made as to the source of one's attraction.

Yeah what you're attracted to is socially constructed but the way we approach them etc is biologically based. The chemistry and connection the electricity and passion. What makes her sweaty hot and blush when you kiss her. Sweat running down her back when you caress her. That's biology.

Women like to nurture those they feel are wounded not weak.

Don't think of yourself as weak. Think of your strengths and how to utilize them. Always put yourself in the power position. Unless she's a hoe you're pimping you're always the prize with women, not them

"My basic opposition is that I think girls who are attracted to bad boys are so because their values are based around wanting to be around a guy who is powerful because they think being associated with his power will make them more powerful. What you mention is my point, she wants a guy who is mean to other people but not to her just because she wants to be a partner in crime with him. It is based around wanting to look down on other people and exert power over them."

^ At first there is the somewhat open minded claim that CC *thinks* the reasons are for a girl to be attracted to a bad boy. But then, yet again, CC makes it a statement of fact (but completely ASSUMED) that that same girl wants to be looking down on others.

Not trying to get into the details of each of these recent points, CC. Just pointing out that so many of points are rife with FALSE ASSUMPTIONS that you mistake as "facts". It permeates your points to the point that it is clear you can't distinguish the difference with actual facts.

"But the system doesn't work for a lot of people and I have a better one."

^ You ASSUME you have a better system. And you ASSUME there's only one (bad) system to begin with. And you ASSUME there's a lot of people impacted by said ASSUMED only system. As if women don't actively pursue the men that they are attracted to. Confirmation bias much?

I'm literally trying to guide you on how to engage with this topic and argument, giving you a foundation to begin your argument with and you just respond with more mindless drivel.

Well the only alternative I've seen is hookers and hoping that a girl comes along who shares my values and is attracted to me. The chances of this can be increased by having a wider social circle. But I cannot risk becoming a bad person by making a sexual move on a girl because I could come to a false conclusion which could cause me to do the wrong thing so its better to just opt out of that kind of thing entirely and let the girl make a move on me because in that case, the chance of doing the wrong thing is 0%. If I pay a hooker, her consent is 100% guaranteed. There's no ambiguity at all. I can't wade into the waters of ambiguity because I don't understand body language and a lot of girls communicate too much with body language so I can't understand them. I have don't have much instinctual aptitude for body language, I can only go by what I've taught myself which is still frequently incorrect because I don't understand it on an instinctual level so I can't make quick decisions on it that end up being accurate. I might as well be trying to have sex with a girl who speaks a foreign language that I have only taken basic courses on. If I could touch the girl then I would understand but if I touch her and she didn't want it, I already made the wrong calculation and I can't figure that out just by looking at her. Only if I touched her and by then it is too late. Furthermore, I am very anxious about sex, it has the potential to make me either extremely happy or extremely miserable, and often times even with the best intentions I say things weirdly. Girls have a much better understanding of social nuance and body language than I do, so I'd rather just leave this part of the process up to them because I trust them not to make the wrong choice.

Are you happy now?

"I'm literally trying to guide you on how to engage with this topic and argument, giving you a foundation to begin your argument with and you just respond with more mindless drivel."

You are literally doing the things I am saying. Over and over and over again. I am providing you specific examples of it. And just like I said, you don't even recognize it.

There are shit tons of people being impacted by this. Did you not read NiceSpice's link. 22 fucking percent of guys aged 22-35 did not have sex once in the past year. That is a terrifyingly high percentage. That doesn't even account for guys who may have had sex a few times in that year and that's it. I'd say that's a really massive percentage of the population being impacted by this system. Almost 1 out of every 4 guys in one of the most sexually active groups of people have had no sex at all for a year.

Just think SirLDK. I'm not even in that 22% and look at me. How miserable do you think that 22% is if actually having had sex several times in the past year has still made me as miserable as I am right now?

I only had sex with one girl. I was 17 and fucked her in her bedroom next to her parents bedroom. I had the chance to loose my virginity sooner to a HOT BLONDE 21 yr old lifeguard, but I was a fucking IDIOT!

"Well the only alternative I've seen is hookers and hoping that a girl comes along who shares my values and is attracted to me. The chances of this can be increased by having a wider social circle. But I cannot risk becoming a bad person by making a sexual move on a girl because I could come to a false conclusion which could cause me to do the wrong thing so its better to just opt out of that kind of thing entirely and let the girl make a move on me because in that case, the chance of doing the wrong thing is 0%. "

^ You say you have no alternative and you think the only other one will make you a bad person. Maybe you should ASSUME that. Maybe you should recognize that you may never be able to find the woman that exactly matches your values. Maybe if your mind was open to this AND you won't need to be a bad person, maybe you'll meet a girl that maybe meets *some* of your values. Maybe you are making excuses because you simply have a fundamental fear of rejection. Maybe you could improve upon your physical looks. Maybe you could take a chance on meeting women by "faking" confidence. Lots of maybes, therefore there lots of other alternatives beside the "only" one you mentioned.

She was a dead ringer for Barbara eden. I shit you not!

The only required values I need her to share is to nurture and take care of the weak, and to reject power dynamics in relationships. As long as she has empathy for the weak and has no desire for power I will like her. I am willing, however, to date a girl who's made a religion I don't even belong to an important part of her life, although I have grown to respect that religion a lot recently, who opposes drugs being legal and who probably doesn't have a very good opinion on prostitution or strip clubs. But the religion part honestly doesn't matter to me much at all and the later two I can overlook.

"There are shit tons of people being impacted by this. Did you not read NiceSpice's link. 22 fucking percent of guys aged 22-35 did not have sex once in the past year. That is a terrifyingly high percentage. That doesn't even account for guys who may have had sex a few times in that year and that's it. I'd say that's a really massive percentage of the population being impacted by this system. Almost 1 out of every 4 guys in one of the most sexually active groups of people have had no sex at all for a year."

^ You ASSUME that it is a major epidemic to begin with. How do you fucking know that all those guys not getting laid are so miserable? Are they not masturbating too? How do you know this is such a "terrifying" statistic? Maybe you are ASSUMING it because you have some personal issue and put undue stress upon yourself for nothing.

My physical looks aren't great but they aren't bad. I'm probably a 6 on most days. If I removed absolutely all acne and gained some weight I might become a 7. I'm taking a break from working on that, but I have worked on it in the past and plan to do it again in the future. Thankfully my acne is very mild right now though.

"The only required values I need her to share is to nurture and take care of the weak, and to reject power dynamics in relationships. As long as she has empathy for the weak and has no desire for power I will like her. I am willing, however, to date a girl who's made a religion I don't even belong to an important part of her life, although I have grown to respect that religion a lot recently, who opposes drugs being legal and who probably doesn't have a very good opinion on prostitution or strip clubs. But the religion part honestly doesn't matter to me much at all and the later two I can overlook."

^ This addresses ONE (or a few) of the maybes. Try addressing each of them to open up more options for yourself. Think of more maybes.

This is a great example of you being a little more open minded.

For example have you now considered "faking" confidence in order to meet such a woman?

Have you considered that it may take several attempts and even if so she still won't click all your boxes?

Have you considered improving your personal looks?

All of these are just examples. FWIW I think if you learned to "fake" that confidence, it would help you a lot.

"My physical looks aren't great but they aren't bad. I'm probably a 6 on most days. If I removed absolutely all acne and gained some weight I might become a 7. I'm taking a break from working on that, but I have worked on it in the past and plan to do it again in the future. Thankfully my acne is very mild right now though."

^ Progress!!!

FWIW I had pretty bad acne too. Luckily my wife finds my pock marked post acne face attractive. Or so she tells me.

Because sexual intimacy is a physical need. You can't just masturbate and fix it, that only satisfies the need for an ejaculation. Humans have a need for physical intimacy or it will affect their mental health and its very likely that almost all of those 22% are not getting that. The reason for this assumption is because it is uncommon to be in the 22-35 age group that is in a relationship that contains sexual intimacy but not sex so it therefore is reasonable to conclude that they rarely get any kind of sexual intimacy. We essentially have at least 22% of the population of guys absolutely starving for physical intimacy because they haven't had any in a year. Furthermore, there is substantial evidence to conclude that a lot of guys hate the current dating scene. The entire existence of MGTOW, The Red Pill, and incels is proof that a substantial number of guys today despise current dating standards. You're just in denial because you're already married so you don't have to deal with this stuff.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/…

I can't fake confidence. It wouldn't make me look docile to a girl so I might attract the wrong type of girl I'm looking for. Even if I did try, I'm terrible at it.

LMAO @Nidan now you need to get the next stripper that looks like Barbara Eden to put on a lifeguard swimsuit and have some regressive fun!

When I was in high school this scrawny but cute girl really crushed on me. I passed on her for her friend and later after college I saw her again and she had blossomed into a smoking hot leggy blonde with huge tits. D'OH!!!

"You're just in denial because you're already married so you don't have to deal with this stuff."

^ Just when you made some progress, you regressed with this point and the rest of the reply. At least this time you admitted some ASSUMPTION.

I'm not going to bother to unpack the rest of the logic flaws with your statements.

No, I'm not in denial. I just know how to fucking distinguish the issues AND benefits of statistics and studies AND the dangers of making FALSE ASSUMPTIONS and having CONFIRMATION BIAS from them. A lot if what you posted still has these logic flaws. To me, you're the one in denial. But you won't see it and you will cling to your own "proofs".

Forgot to mention...my point about masturbation was NOT to completely refute your point. I know you took it as such based on your immediate "rebuttal".

My point of bringing it up was that that study, to be useful in making the ASSUMED conclusions that you did, would have included masturbation, sexual intimacy without sex, other sexual releases, happiness, misery, ambivalence, and many other data points relative to the sex one. That's how I think when I get information like that study. I just don't JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS like you did with it. So again, no, I'm not in denial.

Just read the "article" from the psychology today link.

In summary: LMAO the psychologist that postulates this major dating issue for men ends the article with a "conclusion" that is a link to go and get more help and answers from another website that has links back to the article.

Clickbait!

The overall take I have with this “hostile dating scene” is the same I have for black people being brought down by whiteys.

Are there certain issues out there? Yes. Do those issues happen to the extent that an *individual* is hampered from creating a good life? No.

In the case of dating, the solution is not giving government authoritariam abilites to create something where females supposedly “choose” men (which would not really be a choice once the government steps in)

Poor muddy will have to create a new thread for implementing his cheerleader role plays. Oops lol

^^^Y’all mofos always fucking hijacking my threads witch ur crazy ass 10 paragraph arguments. Fuckers.

Anyways so fucking cheerleaders is good. Can I get a fuckin Amen!

Hallelujah and fucking amen, @Muddy9. The cheerleader is a timeless hottie fantasy. And it never gets old.

Also sowwy about the threadjack.

"The overall take I have with this “hostile dating scene” is the same I have for black people being brought down by whiteys."

Are there certain issues out there? Yes. Do those issues happen to the extent that an *individual* is hampered from creating a good life? No."

^ I agree and would add that these pussy pansy losers that can't get laid and wallow in their own pathetic misery are really no different today than they were in my generation, my parent's, my grandparent's, etc. They've always existed throughout history, and they always will, in any "system" or lack thereof. Sure there are changes in societal norms and such that may change the circumstances under which a guy (or girl) can't get laid, but it's going to happen no different than not everyone is born equally attractive or equal in the ability to attract the other sex.

Heck, even that psychology today article is nothing but the author's hypothesis and conjecture on current reasons that men have dating challenges. He even makes it clear up front by saying it is all a hypothesis. Note also that he speaks in generalities like "men I talked to" because he knows he has no data in it to support his admitted theories. There are no specific and quantifiable studies he conducted and he provides no context to the past other than conjecture as to how today's dating is different.

"In the case of dating, the solution is not giving government authoritariam abilites to create something where females supposedly “choose” men (which would not really be a choice once the government steps in)"

^ agreed too. It's like saying that the government agrees that pussy pansies have suffered civil injustices in life and therefore deserve protection from this under the law. Give me a fucking break.

Furthermore I don't see and never viewed that dating ever had any "system" to begin with and over time the "societal norms" with respect to it are just generalities more than hard and fast rules of some "system". How does the saying goes? "All's fair in love and war..."

Amen Muddy

There is no "wrong" move to make on a girl. If she's not interested she'll reject you. That's that, rejection is a part of life. You learn from it, it helps build your social skills.

And its not about some weird theories on whats wrong with women and society. Its really just about attractiveness and learning to communicate.

The loneliness epidemic in the US is being cited as a greater public health crisis than obesity.

https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/…

The evidence for an abysmal dating scene is everywhere. Everywhere you look people are struggling. You've got MGTOW, incels, and the Red Pill. You've got hundreds of thousands of men who are so frustrated with the dating scene, they've completely opted out in favor of video games and porn. Think about how biologically insane that actually is. Other than food is there anything human beings are more biologically driven to crave than sex? Men in droves are choosing to give up sex because the steps you have to take in order to get it is too painful. Furthermore, you have other guys who are so frustrated with it that they are renouncing their citizenship and moving to other countries. What about the guys on TUSCL or other sites who probably haven't had sex with a girl who wasn't a prostitute in years, possibly decades? When you've got hundreds of thousands possibly millions of men taking such extreme measures to avoid the dating process here, you know there's something deeply wrong with the system we have setup and its irritating when the most successful people choose to just deny the existence of these problems.

Legal methods of solving social issues never really work. But from what I've seen, massive social change can happen in as little as 5-10 years.

Life's a bitch sometimes. Sometimes the best you can do is think more positively.

Muddy, is this the thread you envisioned when you posted it?

Honestly yes Jimmy I’ve come to accept the inevitable.

Legislation does solve social problems as long as its funded and enforced properly.

The gov can't legislate eugenics....which is what helping a subset of men get laid, would amount to.

Do they want a system like the Japanese comfort women of WW2? Its sick.

Legislation on employment, wages, college tuition, etc would help some.

But for most of these men, it comes down to poor socialization, lack of social skills and the refusal to stay in their league

CC99 is going to be the poster child for the He Too! movement.

No pansy left behind!

This thread is still going? Where are the cheerleaders? Shake them pom poms

I think SirLDK should go back to school since he has to have so much information spoon-fed to him in order to have a conversation.

LMAO you spoon fed a bunch of garbage.

Learn what fucking confirmation bias is. Learn how you have a habit of doing it and recognize when you do do it.

Learn what the difference is between anecdotal observation and fact and also learn to recognize it in your own arguments.

Learn to literally read what someone else writes and learn how NOT to make a false fucking assumption on it.

Learn NOT to deflect.

Learn what a fucking strawman argument is and how to recognize it in your own debates.

Until you can address all of these issues with yourself, there is no point in anybody having a "rational" discussion with you.

………………_„-,-~''~''':::'':::':::::''::::''~-,~„
…………._,-'':::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::''-„
………..,-'::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::|
………,-'::::::::::::„:„„-~-~--'~-'~--~-~--~--~„:,'
……..,'::::::::::,~'': : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : '-|
……..|::::::::,-': : : : : : : : - -~''''¯¯''-„: : : : : :\
……..|::::::::|: : : : : : : : : _„„--~'''''~-„: : : : : '|
……..'|:::::::,': : : : : : :_„„-: : : : : : : : ~--„_: |'
………|::::::|: : : „--~~'''~~''''''''-„…_..„~''''''''''''¯¯|¯",
………|:::::,':_„„-|: : :_„---~: : :|''¯¯''''|: ~---„_: |¯¯|
……..,~-,_/'': : : |: :(_ o__): : |: : : :|:(_o__): \.. |
……../,'-,: : : : : ''-,_______,-'': : : : ''-„______\-'
……..\: :|: : : : : : : : : : : : : :„: : : : :-,: : : : : :\
………',:': : : : : : : : : : : : :,-'__: : : :_',: : : : ,'
……….'-,-': : : : : :___„-: : :'': : ¯''~~'': ': : ~--|'
………….|: ,: : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : :|
………….'|: \: : : : : : : : -,„_„„-~~--~--„_: : | Dangit
…………..|: \: : : : : : : : : : : :-------~: : : : : | DC/CC
…………..|: :''-,: : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : :|
…………..',: : :''-, : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : ,'
……………| : : : : : : : : :_ : : : : : : : : : : ,-'
……………|: : : : : : : : : : '''~----------~'': :,'
…………._|: : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : :|
……….„-''. '-,_: : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : ,'
……,-''. . . . . '''~-„_: : : : : : : : : : : : :,-'''-„
pm-''. . . . . . . . . . .'''''''~~~~~~~''''''¯¯. . . ''-„
-'''. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . '''-,

CC wants his pussy spoon fed to him.

Learn how to actually have an argument.

Learn how to do your own research so other people don't have to spoon-fed information to you before you realize that the sky is in-fact, blue.

Learn how to accept proper evidence when it is presented to you.

Learn how to stop being a conformist drone.

Learn to recognize that insulting the other person doesn't make you right.

Until then there is no point in anybody having a rational discussion with SirLDK.

Boring loser, that looks like my twin sister

@CC LMAO I'll just live in my get laid bubble ignorance then. Good luck to you in your can't get laid blame everything else but yourself "enlightenment".

Cya around, pansy.

dang. i’m fifty years behind.

Continue just living in your bubble of ignorance that tells you that the way we're currently doing things is always the best way to do things and the only solution is to get with the program.

Cya around, dumbass.

Learn to read sarcasm too, dumbass pansy. That's all my post was.

You're living in a huge bubble of wallow in your own misery, formed through your confirmation bias and ignorance.

Your energy on this "issue" might be better served trying to fix your own personal issues as to why you can't get laid. Even your lack thereof debate skills may play into the issue.

CC you should start a new "Million Man March". Bring all your "millions" of pansies with you to DC and storm Capital Hill with "He Too" and "Pansies Need Pussy" and "Equal Rights To Pussy For All" signs. LMAO then society will "wake up" to this "epidemic".

*Million Pansy-Ass March*

Sirlapdancealot thinks ignoring everyone and just repeating his skewed little views makes him look smart and credible. I blocked him, there's no point in communicating with him.

But you don't have to conform to get laid.

LMAO IceyLoco my views and logic are well laid out during the exchanges with people. I'm just commenting based on the posts provided.

For example I'd like to point out that you had to unblocked me to read and reply just now which begs the question as to why you blocked me to begin with. Not to mention you took the time to type up a reply.

ROFLMAO by the "logic" of your reply you look stupid and discredited.

^ why should you care I’ll bet phat head is blocked by more folks than anyone even SJG

@twentyfive I don't care if someone has blocked me or not. I just like trolling the fuck out of anyone that trolls me.

ROFLMAO IceyLoco thinks he can still have "credibility" as a TUSCL "contributor". She brings a good actual woman's perspective to this thread, though.

https://www.tuscl.net/app/discussion.php…

In my experience, when IceyLoco (aka the hypocritical trick bitch) puts you on ignore "he" still reads your posts anyway. ROFLMAO it's another example of "him" being a hypocritical little trick bitch.

@IceyLoco

SirLDK is basically a troll profile even though he's a real person. He doesn't really go to strip clubs anymore, but he likes all the arguing and drama on TUSCL and wants to keep watching/participating in it. Guess I can't blame him for that, it is pretty entertaining. However, he doesn't want to do this in a way that might put him out of line with the popular opinions on TUSCL so he only trolls and goes after members who are unpopular here, you, SJG, Nicole, and now me. SirLDK wouldn't dare troll a popular member on TUSCL no matter what kind of opinion they gave.

@CC99, I agree. He just comes on here to not even argue, but to derail threads by constantly demeaning and belittling people for no reason. I don't think many on here care about opinions. You get people like 25 who won't even address opinions but will belittle people no matter what they post.

^ you have no real opinions you’re about as real as a character, from Iceberg Slims Memoirs of a Pimp. SMH

@CC99 LMAO I already said that I only troll anybody that trolls me. It's evidenced in this thread that you've trolled me so now you will just have to live with it until I get bored of you. Same goes for IceyLoco. And it has zero to do with popularity.

And besides me, you don't think you're a troll but you are one of the most passive-aggressive ones on the board. It goes along with your pansy ass, can't get laid nature, I guess.

By the way I returned to more posting here because my wife and I were talking about strip clubs recently. And there have been threads about Portland mongering. And I like nicespice and LolitaLove pics. So get the fuck outta here about me being here just to troll. I'm here to talk strippers and strip clubbing because it's still part of my life. And I'm here to troll trolls as I choose too. Just like you.

LMAO you should run for president with IceyLoco as your vice pansy. Run on manginacare for all.

Oh I do troll sometimes.

I wasn't trolling on this thread though.

Fucking loser trolls

"Oh I do troll sometimes.

I wasn't trolling on this thread though"

^ @CC99 this is an example of you being a passive-aggressive troll. The rest of your examples in this thread speak for themselves.

I think the title of this discussion should have been titled "I need to get laid, so we can avoid this discussion"

@Cristobal IMHO I think it should be titled "CC99's Self-Fulfilling Prophecy of Not Getting Laid, aka the Manifesto of a Pussy Pansy".

^ or "CC99's Mangina Manifesto"