I didn’t get laid in high school

Ha! Honey would enjoy that too.

Sounds like a scene from the movie "The Last American Virgin"

I think it’s a great idea. But I’m high.

Fucking loser

Lol... @SirLapdancealot

And get your ass kicked by the jocks

@muddy I will dress up like a cheer leader

Cheerleader outfits are hot, but I think the schoolgirl outfit might be even hotter.

Don't forget to tell her she can't get pregnant because it's her first time.

After Biff catches you looking at his GF, he and his buddies dunk you in the toilet.

Why is it always up to guys to make a move? Girls are the ones who are least likely to get rejected and talk all the time about how so and so guy was creepy, they should do it. It's either get called a pansy or get called creepy and I'd much rather be considered a pansy than be considered creepy.

Wanting something doesn’t make you a creep. Not taking no for an answer does. One thing a player tends to have going for him is the ability to be outcome independent and move on to the next female if she says no. Thus females feel more at ease with that kind of male and it helps his success rate.

The aggressive cat calling dudebro and the “friend zoned” guy are closer to each other on the scale (in female minds) than you think.

Laughing at the don’t forget to cum in 30 seconds comment. Reminds of a buddy in high school. He was dating a very, very hot girl. We were 16 or 17 at the time. She came over to his house after school. No parents home. They went to the couch for fun. She sat on his lap. He jizzed in his pants instantly. They had not even started kissing yet. Ouch!

"Not taking no for an answer does."

That's exactly what playboy types do or they just assume the answer is yes and act accordingly.

Nice guys assume its a no until they know its a yes. They're anxious because they're always on the lookout for "is she trying to say no to me in a polite way but doesn't know how?" So that they can just excuse themselves without the girl needing to bluntly reject them. That's the complete opposite of not taking no for an answer. Girls putting them in the same category as dudebros are being ridiculous.

I think Beta Cuck has a bigger vaginal than Stanky and Nicole combined. I mean the depths of the stupidity and emoness is cavernous. Is that what CC stands for? Cavernous Cunt?

Pistola you've never struck me as being very intelligent at all. So you probably shouldn't try calling people stupid. That's basically the same as if I laughed at somebody for having no game.

Speaking of game, I'm not trying to game a girl. I'm trying to find a girl who accepts me for who I am and is willing to love me the same way I'd love her. Even if I did change and became a total playa bruh, how would that help me? By allowing me to sleep with a bunch of girls I have no respect for because I had to become something I despise in order to have sex with them?

muddy9. don’t feel alone. i was a late bloomer too.

I can't give up. I want the world to be a better place for guys like me, that'll never happen if I give in and change. I have a very strong desire and ability to love a girl. I really don't believe that many guys are willing to love a girl as powerfully as I would. Any girl would be lucky to have me if they just could get over the fact that I'm shy and weird. If they can't see past that, they don't deserve me. I can't just love any girl, only a girl who is really sweet, kind, and nurturing. By being shy and weird, I can filter out the bad girls from the sweet girls. Because the bad girls want a guy who's powerful and dominant. A girl who really has a good heart won't care about that. By doing this, I can make the world a better place. We can raise good kids, who feel the same way.

^ I'm guessing you come on way too strong and smothering. It scares them off.

I can't give up. I want the world to be a better place for strippers like me, that'll never happen if I give in and change. I have a very strong desire and ability to give good lapdances. I really don't believe that many strippers are willing to give valuable time and attention to a customer as powerfully as I would. Any customer would be lucky to have me if they just could get over the fact that I'm shy and weird. If they can't see past that, they don't deserve me. I can't just dance for any customer, only a customer who is really sweet, kind, and nurturing. By being shy and weird, I can filter out the customers who attempt to get handsy from the sweet guys. Because the bad customers want a dancer who's powerful and dominant. A customer who really has a good heart won't care about that. By doing this, I can make the world a better place. We can together make strip clubs a better place to work.

All trolling aside, DC, this is why a few months ago I recommended you take up a once-a-week gig where you are only paid in commission. So that you can learn to have surface level conversations and better practice reading people’s emotions and intent.

In your case, you are afraid of appearing creepy because of your social skills, so you aren’t the best at altering your behavior in different social situations. I get it and I have empathy for that.

And having concern for others is a good thing—but poor social skills isn’t who you are and you CAN improve in it.

We ALL have our weak spots. Some people have slow metabolisms and have to be more careful about diet and exercise than others. Others may not be good at managing time and are constantly late to things. It is what it is.

But if you want to improve your life, then I do recommend listening to SirLap and accepting the constructive criticism. Or you can instead get bitter at males who do have more success in that area, and dislike them. (And get trolled on this site for it) Your call.

...OR if a 100% straight commission sales job is not a good suggestion, then how about another role? You said you liked girls who care about animal rights or the environment? You could volunteer for once of those organizations (or any other cause that you think is a genuinely good one) where you help get people to care about those goals too—whether asking for donations or explaining to somebody why they should do xyz in their daily life.

The reason I am suggesting all that is you will be able to learn how to communicate in a way where people will want to listen to you. You’re influencing—not dominating nor manipulating.

Believe me DC, I understand the mental conditioning that makes it difficult to separate that sometimes too. In my case, I could write a shit ton about my childhood that led me to having low self confidence and I still struggle with that sometimes.

But I have also done a LOT of improving in that, thanks to dancing. You don’t have the option to dance, but you have the potential to improve as well.

DC - you think believing in the best the world can be makes you an idealist. It just makes you naive or young. You need to be confident or at least project confidence. If you’re not confident, fake it until you are. No girl will respect you if you don’t respect yourself. The girl who falls in love with your present self will not stay in love with you, or you will not stay in love with her.

I’m actually shopping for a heerleader outfit at one of these sex shop can’t find one. Maybe I gotta go custom made at some online place. I thought this was kind of a common fetish though shit shouldn’t be that hard

*cheerleader

@NiceSpice your "trolling" is honestly a valid excuse. I think the strip club this hypothetical dancer wants to create would be a great place. If I heard that for real I wouldn't think it was stupid at all. In strip clubs, I'm not anything like I am in the civie world. I do approach dancers in strip clubs because its only fair. My chance of getting rejected for a dance is like 1%, maybe not even that because its never happened before. Its absolutely tiny whereas the dancer has a much bigger chance of getting rejected by the guy. So I make it easy for them and just approach them myself. I have in-fact, approached shy and weird dancers who are sitting alone, along the side couches and bought dances from them. Whenever I've been in a position to do so, I have intentionally befriended the weirdest kid in the room, even if other people laughed at me for it and even if they ostracized me for it. Furthermore, I would defend them if I ever heard people talking shit about them behind their back. Even when I was young I did this. In middle school, I was friends with a girl that everybody thought was too weird. She talked about not believing in the concept of time, not believing in birthdays, or holidays, many other things that caused other kids to write her off, but I didn't. For a couple years or so, I was the only friend she had.

I just want a girlfriend who'd treat me the way I'd treat myself if I knew me.

I'm bitter towards those guys because they are successful with girls despite being complete asswipes, and instead of condemning this behavior society has instead chosen to act like its cool somehow, exalted them, and tries to compel every guy to act like that. I'm actually not bitter towards guys that are successful and aren't asswipes. I don't dislike Tsukune from Rosario for example even though he has a "harem." I wouldn't feel bitter towards a real life version of him either, because he's a good guy. Several months ago, like around September or so, a girl I liked chose to date another guy instead of me. And even though I was a bit upset personally, it was definitely a comfort when she described the guy and I realized he was actually a really good guy. So I didn't feel bitter towards him and actually later on when she complained about his lack of assertiveness I defended him. I also didn't feel bitter towards the ex-boyfriend of yours you described who was successful. I just feel bitter towards a lot of them because so many men who are successful are also assholes and I feel that people are rewarding them for being assholes instead of trying to correct them.

Last year, around this time actually, I did volunteer at the local animal shelter. I couldn't continue going though because it closes surprisingly early so the times it was open conflicted with my class schedules and I felt myself being compelled to skip in order to make it.

@Jimmy McNulty

Perhaps that's evidence then that its actually young people who have the right idea about how our world should be, and adults who should listen instead of just accepting things as they are. Massive historical changes in the average person's empathy have occurred. As late as the 18th century, lots of people watched public executions for enjoyment. I read somewhere that in the 17th century some kings would have cats burned alive because they thought the cat's screams were funny. Nowadays, wanting to watch these kinds of things would rightfully be considered extremely disturbing and evidence for being a psychopath or a sadist. A lot of people in the historical past were extremely cruel and unfortunately these traits were not especially uncommon. Even when I listen to how my dad described growing up in the 70s, things seemed a lot rougher. He told me that kids would beat you up if they thought you were weird or just not strong enough. And that this was a common thing too. And it wasn't just elementary schoolers but high schoolers doing this too. I've seen kids get ostracized and made fun of, but never physically assaulted.

Basically what I'm saying is that the world can change. We don't have to accept it as it is. And it can change a lot faster than you think.

How about instead of focusing on whether its working for me or not, you actually tell me why the fuck we should continue a system that is stupid? Now I'm not completely unwilling to compromise. Let's say guys still need to ask girls out, I don't think anybody would call a guy creepy for asking a girl out. At the very least, however, girls should be in charge of initiating all the physical/sexual moves. Here's the risks for a guy who does this.

• 80-90% chance of failure.
• High chance of doing it wrong somehow, making the girl feel anywhere from a little uncomfortable to sexually assaulted.
• If the later is the case, even if the guy did not intend to do so, he just sexually assaulted a girl and may now go to prison or have his life ruined.
• If the guy fails but doesn't fail in a creepy way, he may still get made fun of by everyone as a loser.
• At the same time people will call him a loser for not trying.

In essence, there's an insane amount of pressure on guys in this situation. Girls?

• 75% chance of success at least, possibly 90%.
• Guys will never falsely accuse a girl of sexual misconduct.
• make a move or don't make a move, either way she is just an empowered female.
• Gets to dictate exactly how far it goes.

So why the fuck are we telling men to be the initiators when they are the ones with everything to lose, and girls have almost nothing to lose by initiating sexual stuff? And why the fuck are you people trying to keep this absurd system the same?

1. “girls have almost nothing to lose by initiating sexual stuff”

Girls get labeled as sluts/whores. And being a slut/whore means it’s okay to sexually harass and assault us. I’m not going to gripe too hard, because I think the trade offs are worth it. But it is what it is.

1. Luckily for you, it’s a heck of a lot easier to convince one or several females to go on a date than it is to convince society changes its norms.

Slut/whore doesn't mean much anymore. Its barely even a stigma now. At the very least, a tremendous number of people are willing to back you up if somebody calls you a slut.

A guy gets labeled a creep, pervert, sexist, and misogynist. With those labels, nobody is on your side, you're doomed.

Stop deflecting. I have solid evidence to prove that my system is better. Men have the risk of actual legal consequences following their actions that will impact them for the rest of their lives. The worst thing that could happen to a girl is maybe some people call her a slut. Which will then result in a large contingency of girls saying you shouldn't slut shame and another large contingency of guys who say the same thing. At the very least, probably 50% of society will be on your side even if you get called a slut but probably more like 70%. Furthermore, girls will be called a slut whether she initiates or not, if she lets it happen at all she runs a risk of being called a slut.

Any before anyone brings it up. Sex workers are definitely a different situation because that carries a different taboo/stigma attached to it that just being a promiscuous girl doesn't.

@SirLDK

Possibly, which is further evidence for why its better the other way around. If girls have to initiate everything sexual, then there's no chance for a guy to be a creepy pervert in the first place because he's not socially allowed to make a move.

See why this works better for everyone?

I'd say some men are pushed to be creepy perverts by society because society says if you cannot get laid you're a loser. Especially the hyper-masculine side of TUSCL who thinks you not only should initiate, but posits that only a man with confidence and dominance is respectable. How you guys don't see how this could lead to sexual assaults is unbelievable. You just want to justify men thinking with their dicks and not having to control their impulses at all is what the side you argue for amounts to. So stop acting like I'm the only one with a personal interest in this. Furthermore, you might just not be able to see the benefits of anything that doesn't uphold the status quo.

Read the shit I post. Don't skim.

"Now I'm not completely unwilling to compromise. Let's say guys still need to ask girls out, I don't think anybody would call a guy creepy for asking a girl out. At the very least, however, girls should be in charge of initiating all the physical/sexual moves."

Read the shit I post. Don't skim.

"Now I'm not completely unwilling to compromise. Let's say guys still need to ask girls out, I don't think anybody would call a guy creepy for asking a girl out. At the very least, however, girls should be in charge of initiating all the physical/sexual moves."

^ keep on channeling your inner Bruce Jenner, see how that goes No homo

Keep justifying an idiotic system, No dummy.

^take two midols you’ll feel much better

My evidence is common sense. Guys hardly ever reject girls. Single guys' desperation is notorious.

youtube.com

Here's your proof SirLDK. Basically every guy either said yes or had an incredibly polite way of saying no or just said they couldn't have sex that quickly but still wanted to hang out. That's despite her very awkward and nervous way of approaching them, but the guys didn't care. If that's her success rate just walking up to random guys in the street, imagine what the success rate would be if girls approached guys the normal way? It'd be extremely high. What guy would reject an average looking girl? I don't know any. I know guys that are willing to fuck 300 pound women just because they initiated. So with little to no risk of rejection, no risk of legal consequences, no pressure put on them by society to get laid, why on Earth is it guys who have to initiate sex and not girls? Answer me for real, stop posturing so you look like a stud "who gets all dey bitchez" in-front of the rest of TUSCL.

You clearly didn't read what I said because none of this argument is about asking girls out on a date. Its about initiating physical/sexual moves.

I do wish the video had chosen a more average looking girl. She's a bit too pretty, skews the results, but still good info.

It doesn't happen overnight, but why do you think frat guys are more prone to sexual assault? The guys who are in the highest position of social status on campus are three times more likely to rape than other guys? It certainly couldn't have anything to do with the hyper-masculine environment they surround themselves in where the guy who fucks the most girls is given the most respect right? Or the fact that they might be seen as weak, losers, pussy pansies if they can't get laid?

Alright here you go. Attractive guy asks 100 girls. That's enough to constitute a scientific sample size.

youtube.com

Now I will say that I respect them for not doing it. Nevertheless, however, it reflects a huge imbalance in rejection rates based on gender. I agree she was too attractive for the experiment. But objectively, this guy is probably too attractive for this experiment as well and he still struck out every time.

Asking a girl out is not the same as initiating a sexual move. Initiating a sexual move is kissing her or putting a hand on her leg and stuff like that.

Damn. I couldn't argue that much if I wanted to.

I didn't get laid I high school either. I think that's part of why I enjoy the fantasy of the SC. The fantasy of enjoying/playing with a young desirable lass is just freaking wonderful.

Enjoy your outing Muddy, great idea

I haven't solved it yet, it would be solved if societal norms made sense though and were actually fair.

You're the one trying to claim guys and girls have an equal chance of getting rejected and that the potential for false accusations of sexual misconduct based on gender is equal. The fact that girls are much more likely to reject guys than the other way around and much more likely to make false accusations of sexual misconduct is common knowledge, you didn't accept this though so I actually gave you proof. How much proof do you need for something that constitutes common knowledge?

reason.com

When do guys ever do things like this? Have you ever heard of a guy falsely accusing a girl of sexual assault? Cases like that are practically non-existent.

medium.com

You keep calling it anecdotal observations so that you don't have to address the evidence. I gave a lot of proof and you simply came up with ways to dismiss it in your mind because you don't want to address what I said. I said the system I'm suggesting would work better for everyone. Sexual assaults would go down, false accusations would go down, shy guys could get girlfriends, girls can feel safer around guys knowing they are mostly pacified and aren't being pushed by other guys to get into their pants, gender relations would improve because you wouldn't have nearly as many bitter people. There's no reason not to advocate strongly for what I'm suggesting, both girls and guys can benefit from it. Feminists will like that it reduces sexual assault and puts women in an empowered position of choice, MRAs will like that it reduces false accusations of sexual misconduct, lonely virgins will like that it will encourage girls to overlook their shyness, regular women will like that they don't have to dodge men catcalling and harassing them nearly as much, average guys will like that this takes some of the pressure off of them. It may not benefit the guys who get laid a lot already, but, it won't really hurt their chances. Shy girls might be at a slight disadvantage, but we can mitigate that by having guys ask girls out first, but then leaving the physical/sexual stuff for the girl to initiate. Given that guys should wait for a girl to feel comfortable with sex before proceeding, this can still benefit shy girls so that guys don't push them into sex before they are ready but the shy girl will always know that the guy is interested and up for it when she is ready.

I've thought about this from every possible angle and thought about the interests of every group I can think of. The evidence is clear, we would all have better lives if girls were the initiators of sexual/physical stuff. What possible reason could you have for being against this?

Furthermore, you can't provide any evidence for why the current system is better than mine. Most of what you're doing is just finding ways to dismiss everything I said. The closest thing you came up with was saying that the system works for some people just fine. Well how about all the people that the current system doesn't work for? How about all the people who'd benefit from the system changing?

#1 The stigma against females sleeping around doesn't exist anymore? You yourself want the female who is "shy and weird" so that you "can filter out the bad girls from the sweet girls." Who are these bad girls? The ones who sleep with the types of males you dislike (guys who are in frats, or jockish, or whatever as you perceive hogging females) Aka the sluts.

#2 "A guy gets labeled a creep, pervert, sexist, and misogynist. With those labels, nobody is on your side, you're doomed."

Okay, the ball is in your court for further explanation. Has something happened in your personal life to be labelled any of these things?

By anecdote, I personally know somebody who faced an outright false rape accusation. It was a stressful situation, but he certainly had people on his side (including me) His parents got a lawyer. Under scrutiny, the girl ADMITTED to lying. Charges were dropped. Sure it sucked but he was far from doomed.

Oh and btw, the reports of false rape accusation are far lower than of the suspected underreporting of sexual assault. cnn.com nytimes.com

#3 "Any before anyone brings it up. Sex workers are definitely a different situation because that carries a different taboo/stigma attached to it that just being a promiscuous girl doesn't."

Yep. A promiscuous girl is one step above on the whorearchy. There is a reason women lie about their number of sex partners. healthline.com

#4 "Especially the hyper-masculine side of TUSCL who thinks you not only should initiate, but posits that only a man with confidence and dominance is respectable. How you guys don't see how this could lead to sexual assaults is unbelievable."

Call out screenames of who you perceive as the hyper-masculine offenders. If any of them are one of any of the 13 men I've met IRL, let me know and I'll give you feedback. Oh sure there has been a naughty few I've had to move hands away on, but the obnoxious factor on that is way lower than normal when compared to the general SC populace. There have also been a naughty few who asked me to meet up in their hotel room as well. And somehow, it ended with me saying no, doing a few fun dances/having fun conversation anyways, and them moving on to source elsewhere.

I guess I'd give an overall summary of confident, but not dominant.

#5 "The rise of young male sexlessness isn’t about Chads and Stacies; it isn’t primarily about Tinder or Bumble; it’s not mostly about attitudinal shifts in what women want from relationships; and it’s not mainly about some new war between the sexes. It’s mostly about people spending more years in school and spending more years living at home. But that’s not actually a story about some change in sexual politics; instead, it’s a story about the modern knowledge economy, and to some extent exorbitant housing costs. As such, it’s no surprise that rising sexlessness is being observed in many countries. This, in turn, suggests that finding a solution to help young people pair up may not be as easy." ifstudies.org

#6 Even if it is TRUE that a few Chads are monopolizing massive harems, then why are you trying to advocate some system of controlling their behavior and limiting access? Go fourth and enjoy and hope the good times never come to an end.

#7 "How about instead of focusing on whether its working for me or not, you actually tell me why the fuck we should continue a system that is stupid? Now I'm not completely unwilling to compromise. Let's say guys still need to ask girls out, I don't think anybody would call a guy creepy for asking a girl out. At the very least, however, girls should be in charge of initiating all the physical/sexual moves."

It's not a matter of what you can and can't compromise. You have a utopia fantasy. Which is okay, as I have my utopia fantasy as well. But deciding that the world will always be wrong when you can't have the utopia...yeah well...

It's a heck of a lot easier to go ask 1000 girls on a date, and get 5 to say yes (I even used very conservative numbers here--it would probably be higher than just five) then it is to get millions of people to go along with your particular utopia vision.

"Dammit @nicespice, you know I can't resist threads you are in." Do I sense a flirtatious comment? I will send my feminist army upon you! Sirlap is the resident CREEP.

Oooh and I want to make point #8

My particular "type" of male I've dated in the past was the goofy and nerdy type of guy with a sense of imagination. NOT the bodybuilder loudmouth "alpha" type. That didn't stop me from getting into more than one controlling and abusive relationship. :o Not saying goofy and nerdy guys are evil, but they aren't the virtuous class of men that you seem to enjoy portraying.

^I suspect the ratio of non-abusive nerdy guys is similar to the ratio of non-abusive frat dudes.

Hmm. I think they do exist somewhere actually. I’ll have to look it up in more detail.

Well at least NiceSpice is actually giving a real argument, SirLDK is just being an idiot/troll right now.

#1: I wouldn't say the stigma doesn't exist, its more a matter that it is either exaggerated or is not nearly as severe as some people claim. There are a lot of of slutty girls, if the stigma was actually harsh, there wouldn't be anywhere near as many as currently exist. I'd liken the stigma of being a slut as similar to the stigma of smoking weed. Maybe there's some people who'll judge you for it, but a lot of people won't and furthermore, a lot of people are advocating for the stigma to be eliminated entirely. Nobody is advocating for the stigma against being a creepy pervert to be eliminated, but that also means that mistakenly placing the label on certain people has severe consequences for their life.

#2: Many many many examples. My brother was dating this one girl, she cheated on him and fucked another guy, then tried to cover it up by filing a false rape claim. I have known two people in managerial positions falsely accused of sexual harassment. One guy managed to avoid it because the store had cameras and they showed the cameras to the police who were able to prove nothing happened. Another guy had a more complicated situation. A girl would continuously grab his ass at work, it happened several times, one day he grabbed her ass. Nothing happened at first. Some people then made a joke about how the girl has a fat ass, and the manager sniggered at it a little. The girl was extremely offended, went back home and claimed to have been sexually assaulted when he grabbed her ass. The cameras showed her grabbing his ass before, but because he was a manager, he is not allowed to grab hers under any circumstances, so he was fired. I know another guy in a group I knew from high school who was accused of sexually assaulting one of the other girls. This guy I'm talking about is one of the most docile people I've ever known. She spread the rumor that he had sexually assaulted her though, and later admitted it was fake, but for a long time, everyone believed her. He was so traumatized by this that he has never recovered. Even to this day, he is so anxious that he barely talks to anybody. That same girl who accused him, also called me creepy when I was 13 because I liked her but was very awkward about it and tried to talk to her but struggled to get sentences out of my mouth because I was so anxious. When I was 17, a girl took me into a classroom and started making out with me. It was pretty blunt, we started hooking up for a month. One of her friends however convinced her it was creepy because I was 17 and she was 15 and that even though there was only a two years age difference, that I had somehow taken advantage of her. So she spreads this everywhere. For awhile, I was called a creepy pervert by many people despite the fact that everybody knew about this and had been okay with it before. A few months later, she admits that I had done nothing wrong, that she had initiated it, and that her friend was basically jealous. At this point, people stopped calling me one, but it was possibly one of the most soul-crushing moments of my life when this was going on. There were times I went to dinner with my family and couldn't speak a word. A friend of mine's dad got accused of sexual harassment, the only reason it got dropped was because witnesses were able to say that he always insisted on keeping the door open and that the girl who harassed him was actually trying to shut the door so that she could accuse him. I know several other people who've told me about somebody they know getting falsely accused, these are just the people I know directly. I know enough stories that my parents have told me not to fuck random drunk girls at parties anymore because the potential for a false accusation is too high in environments like that. Rather instead get to know a girl and make sure she isn't the type of girl who'd do this. Both my mom and dad agree on this.

Sexual assaults are under-reported but by definition every fabricated rape claim to the police is also reported which means a higher percentage of rape claims are false accusations than it appears. In addition, lots of false accusations happen as a part of "rumors" spread by a girl that don't end up being a police claim but can still ruin a guy's reputation among the people he is with.

#3: I guess we agree here so moving on.

#4: Hmm, Jester, IceyLoco, Pistola, Dominic, RickDugan, Daddillac, some guy I had an argument with back in October but don't remember his screen name, and several others have essentially advocated that being an attractive man requires the guy to dominate women sexually and that not doing so makes you a pussy. Furthermore, almost this entire site has a milder version of that and thinks that being anxious when it comes to making moves on girls is a sign that "you're a pussy" somehow. Too many people have said something of this nature for me to point out but this viewpoint seems to be shared by the majority of the site. This may be hard to determine because the members who don't share this view tend to not post very often but it is extremely common.

#5: That's what the article says despite the fact that all the evidence they gave proved the opposite point. Spending more years in school and living at home usually isn't a deterrent from having sex. What they said in terms of "attitudinal shifts in women's expectations from relationships" is basically a really fancy code term for what many guys have been saying for years that certain guys are basically developing unrecognized harems. My theory is that the sexes are being pitted against each other by the current system. There's no reason to be fighting because the solution benefits the majority among both sexes. It only requires that the top percentage of men make small sacrifices and that the average girl make short term sacrifices for long term benefits.

#6: Because its more important to have a system that allows for the largest percentage of people to have their needs fulfilled than it is to have a system that allows for a minority of people to have absolutely everything. Most people will be reasonably satisfied if they have something. It doesn't have to be absolutely perfect, but they will not be deprived to the point of suffering from excruciating psychological pain. If some people are suffering from this kind of pain because of the system we have, then its time for it to be reworked. Sometimes that requires telling people who already have a very good life and will continue having a good life even under changes to make what is really a tiny sacrifice so that somebody else doesn't have to live in misery. I think the basic problem is that Tinder allows these guys to remain permanently available instead of finding a girl and taking themselves off the market until their relationship either runs its course or becomes a lifelong commitment. Furthermore, with so many people saying that cheating is okay, that will mean even if they do date somebody, lots of people still think those guys are de-facto sexually available to other girls and it is assumed that they are more likely to cheat so that extenuates this.

#7: I'm not opposed to guys asking girls out. I think girls should be the initiators of physical and sexual stuff though because men have proven that most of us can't really handle this role. You have two extremes: One guy is too aggressive and ends up sexually assaulting girls. The other extreme is guys like me who don't know what the fuck I'm supposed to do so they opt out of the process entirely because the situation is too much pressure. Too much balancing between too aggressive and too shy. I stay on the safe side of things because the idea of causing that kind of harm to a girl is enough to crush my spirit and my soul so I don't ever want to risk doing that but apparently sticking to the safe side of things causes people to call you a pussy, loser, or whatever. There's no way to win. Stay safe and you're a pussy, go the other way and you risk hurting somebody. I refuse to do anything that hurts anybody even if I get called a pussy for it. But at the same time, I am miserable and lonely because of the choices I have made. But the alternative is becoming a bad person, and I cannot do that under any circumstances. I'd rather just kill myself than become a bad person. Thankfully though, I now have hope that this won't be a permanent condition, but even if I manage to find a special girl. What about all the other people who are going through the same thing I am and have gone through and believe there's no hope in sight? What if they kill themselves, because I didn't advocate for a new system that could help them? I would be selling out to every other person going through the same pain I am by supporting the current way of doing things. Under this system there's way too much sexual assault, way too much rape. And there's way too many girls taking advantage of this atmosphere to falsely accuse people they don't like of committing heinous acts which damages the credibility of rape victims and destroys the lives of innocent men. There's way too many people who are absolutely miserable. If somebody doesn't come up with an idea to relieve that misery, they may never be able to stop being miserable. If I was miserable and find a way to stop being miserable. I have an obligation to lift every other person out of that misery too.

#8: Although its still possible, from what I've seen, the chances are significantly reduced. I don't think the ratio is equal. That being said, I'm very sorry about the bad luck you've had in the past. Abusive relationships are one of the biggest problems I'm trying to fix. By detaching power dynamics entirely from sex and relationships and eliminating the assumption that there has to be a dominant and submissive partner in each relationship and by eliminating the expectation of men to sexually dominate women. If its not equal then its broken. Its okay for people to have different roles in a relationship but that doesn't make one person the submissive partner and the other the dominant one.

Can't read? You're not satisfied with a guy getting rejected a hundred times and not having one success vs a girl who succeeded almost every time? We're talking about an 80% vs 0% success ratio with a guy and a girl who are about on the same level of attractiveness. You demand more and more proof despite the fact that I gave you very solid proof. If an attractive guy strikes out that often you really think the results will be different if I found a video of an average looking guy? And furthermore, you really think that an average looking girl would get rejected by 100 guys? There are guys willing to pay the nastiest girls you've ever seen substantial money in order to fuck them. Almost nobody questions the existence of a large number of desperate single guys. You're basically arguing that the sky is not blue, then I sent you a photo of the sky being blue and then you say that a photo of the sky being blue isn't enough evidence of it being blue. Which leads me to think you're just trolling at this point. You wouldn't be satisfied with any amount of evidence, you'd just find a way to call it an anecdotal observation.

Which is why you should just step out at this point. NiceSpice replied with real arguments, with points and links to other sources which is why I lended her argument the respect it deserved whereas all you do is dismiss everything without providing any points of your own which leads me to think your only objective here is to irritate me.

@IceyLoco

Who you're attracted to is more sociologically created than what most people think. You are actually a perfect example of this. You are consistently attracted to a kind of girl most guys here don't like. Not saying that to offend you, but whenever you create threads about the girls you like, most guys reply saying they are too trashy or they don't like tattoos. You respond saying you like tattoos on a girl. Sociologically, you look for girls that you think share your values and you think that a tattoo is at least a passive sign that she shares your values in some way. There are girls who are attracted to and like shy guys, they do this when they think the shy guys are more likely to share their values. My basic opposition is that I think girls who are attracted to bad boys are so because their values are based around wanting to be around a guy who is powerful because they think being associated with his power will make them more powerful. What you mention is my point, she wants a guy who is mean to other people but not to her just because she wants to be a partner in crime with him. It is based around wanting to look down on other people and exert power over them. I want a girl who is not looking to exert power over anybody. Rather, I am looking for a girl who wants to take care of and nurture the weak. If she lacks attraction to me because I'm weak, perhaps she lacks a sense of nurturing or empathy towards weak people in general. Which means she doesn't agree with my values which is that the weak should be taken care of and protected and that a society where the strong overpower the weak is fundamentally immoral.

You still have no points to make and additionally are persistently trying to make this entirely about me when the conversation is more so about how it would benefit everybody, and I'm just one of those who would benefit. You still have not offered a single piece of evidence to show that the current way of doing things is better than the way I'm suggesting. Now's your chance.

That could be the case some of the time. It depends on whether she dates other guys like me or not. If she dates other guys with the same personality traits, I'm more inclined to think she just thought they were more attractive than me.

There is only one point you've made and its not even a real point. All you've said is basically "stop blaming the system." But the system doesn't work for a lot of people and I have a better one. So instead of proving that the current system is actually better than mine, you just keep continuing your line which is just "stop blaming the system and improve yourself!" If we were to ever follow your advice, we'd still be living under monarchies with absolute power because everyone screeched at the radicals to "stop blaming the system and improve yourself" when that system doesn't work for some people. "Stop blaming the system" is not a point, its a cop out. If I was in the same position as you are in right now, I'd be trying to show evidence for why my system would put more people at a disadvantage when it comes to finding romantic partners and why it wouldn't reduce sexual assault or possibly raise sexual assault than the current system does. But because you can't show any evidence for this, you don't choose that route, instead just insisting that we respect the status quo and work with it instead of changing it so that it works better for more people.

I'm literally trying to guide you on how to engage with this topic and argument, giving you a foundation to begin your argument with and you just respond with more mindless drivel.

Well the only alternative I've seen is hookers and hoping that a girl comes along who shares my values and is attracted to me. The chances of this can be increased by having a wider social circle. But I cannot risk becoming a bad person by making a sexual move on a girl because I could come to a false conclusion which could cause me to do the wrong thing so its better to just opt out of that kind of thing entirely and let the girl make a move on me because in that case, the chance of doing the wrong thing is 0%. If I pay a hooker, her consent is 100% guaranteed. There's no ambiguity at all. I can't wade into the waters of ambiguity because I don't understand body language and a lot of girls communicate too much with body language so I can't understand them. I have don't have much instinctual aptitude for body language, I can only go by what I've taught myself which is still frequently incorrect because I don't understand it on an instinctual level so I can't make quick decisions on it that end up being accurate. I might as well be trying to have sex with a girl who speaks a foreign language that I have only taken basic courses on. If I could touch the girl then I would understand but if I touch her and she didn't want it, I already made the wrong calculation and I can't figure that out just by looking at her. Only if I touched her and by then it is too late. Furthermore, I am very anxious about sex, it has the potential to make me either extremely happy or extremely miserable, and often times even with the best intentions I say things weirdly. Girls have a much better understanding of social nuance and body language than I do, so I'd rather just leave this part of the process up to them because I trust them not to make the wrong choice.

Are you happy now?

There are shit tons of people being impacted by this. Did you not read NiceSpice's link. 22 fucking percent of guys aged 22-35 did not have sex once in the past year. That is a terrifyingly high percentage. That doesn't even account for guys who may have had sex a few times in that year and that's it. I'd say that's a really massive percentage of the population being impacted by this system. Almost 1 out of every 4 guys in one of the most sexually active groups of people have had no sex at all for a year.

Just think SirLDK. I'm not even in that 22% and look at me. How miserable do you think that 22% is if actually having had sex several times in the past year has still made me as miserable as I am right now?

I only had sex with one girl. I was 17 and fucked her in her bedroom next to her parents bedroom. I had the chance to loose my virginity sooner to a HOT BLONDE 21 yr old lifeguard, but I was a fucking IDIOT!

She was a dead ringer for Barbara eden. I shit you not!

The only required values I need her to share is to nurture and take care of the weak, and to reject power dynamics in relationships. As long as she has empathy for the weak and has no desire for power I will like her. I am willing, however, to date a girl who's made a religion I don't even belong to an important part of her life, although I have grown to respect that religion a lot recently, who opposes drugs being legal and who probably doesn't have a very good opinion on prostitution or strip clubs. But the religion part honestly doesn't matter to me much at all and the later two I can overlook.

My physical looks aren't great but they aren't bad. I'm probably a 6 on most days. If I removed absolutely all acne and gained some weight I might become a 7. I'm taking a break from working on that, but I have worked on it in the past and plan to do it again in the future. Thankfully my acne is very mild right now though.

Because sexual intimacy is a physical need. You can't just masturbate and fix it, that only satisfies the need for an ejaculation. Humans have a need for physical intimacy or it will affect their mental health and its very likely that almost all of those 22% are not getting that. The reason for this assumption is because it is uncommon to be in the 22-35 age group that is in a relationship that contains sexual intimacy but not sex so it therefore is reasonable to conclude that they rarely get any kind of sexual intimacy. We essentially have at least 22% of the population of guys absolutely starving for physical intimacy because they haven't had any in a year. Furthermore, there is substantial evidence to conclude that a lot of guys hate the current dating scene. The entire existence of MGTOW, The Red Pill, and incels is proof that a substantial number of guys today despise current dating standards. You're just in denial because you're already married so you don't have to deal with this stuff.

psychologytoday.com

I can't fake confidence. It wouldn't make me look docile to a girl so I might attract the wrong type of girl I'm looking for. Even if I did try, I'm terrible at it.

The overall take I have with this “hostile dating scene” is the same I have for black people being brought down by whiteys.

Are there certain issues out there? Yes. Do those issues happen to the extent that an individual is hampered from creating a good life? No.

In the case of dating, the solution is not giving government authoritariam abilites to create something where females supposedly “choose” men (which would not really be a choice once the government steps in)

Poor muddy will have to create a new thread for implementing his cheerleader role plays. Oops lol

^^^Y’all mofos always fucking hijacking my threads witch ur crazy ass 10 paragraph arguments. Fuckers.

Anyways so fucking cheerleaders is good. Can I get a fuckin Amen!

Amen Muddy

The loneliness epidemic in the US is being cited as a greater public health crisis than obesity.

apa.org

The evidence for an abysmal dating scene is everywhere. Everywhere you look people are struggling. You've got MGTOW, incels, and the Red Pill. You've got hundreds of thousands of men who are so frustrated with the dating scene, they've completely opted out in favor of video games and porn. Think about how biologically insane that actually is. Other than food is there anything human beings are more biologically driven to crave than sex? Men in droves are choosing to give up sex because the steps you have to take in order to get it is too painful. Furthermore, you have other guys who are so frustrated with it that they are renouncing their citizenship and moving to other countries. What about the guys on TUSCL or other sites who probably haven't had sex with a girl who wasn't a prostitute in years, possibly decades? When you've got hundreds of thousands possibly millions of men taking such extreme measures to avoid the dating process here, you know there's something deeply wrong with the system we have setup and its irritating when the most successful people choose to just deny the existence of these problems.

Legal methods of solving social issues never really work. But from what I've seen, massive social change can happen in as little as 5-10 years.

Muddy, is this the thread you envisioned when you posted it?

Honestly yes Jimmy I’ve come to accept the inevitable.

This thread is still going? Where are the cheerleaders? Shake them pom poms

I think SirLDK should go back to school since he has to have so much information spoon-fed to him in order to have a conversation.

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Learn how to actually have an argument.

Learn how to do your own research so other people don't have to spoon-fed information to you before you realize that the sky is in-fact, blue.

Learn how to accept proper evidence when it is presented to you.

Learn how to stop being a conformist drone.

Learn to recognize that insulting the other person doesn't make you right.

Until then there is no point in anybody having a rational discussion with SirLDK.

Boring loser, that looks like my twin sister

dang. i’m fifty years behind.

Continue just living in your bubble of ignorance that tells you that the way we're currently doing things is always the best way to do things and the only solution is to get with the program.

Cya around, dumbass.

^ why should you care I’ll bet phat head is blocked by more folks than anyone even SJG

@IceyLoco

SirLDK is basically a troll profile even though he's a real person. He doesn't really go to strip clubs anymore, but he likes all the arguing and drama on TUSCL and wants to keep watching/participating in it. Guess I can't blame him for that, it is pretty entertaining. However, he doesn't want to do this in a way that might put him out of line with the popular opinions on TUSCL so he only trolls and goes after members who are unpopular here, you, SJG, Nicole, and now me. SirLDK wouldn't dare troll a popular member on TUSCL no matter what kind of opinion they gave.

^ you have no real opinions you’re about as real as a character, from Iceberg Slims Memoirs of a Pimp. SMH

Oh I do troll sometimes.

I wasn't trolling on this thread though.

Fucking loser trolls

I think the title of this discussion should have been titled "I need to get laid, so we can avoid this discussion"