She's Agreed to OTC but Need to discuss details

No. It doesn’t seem reasonable for a more private dance. It does seem reasonable for her to go back to your hotel room and fuck you.

Seems to be market driven but based on what you’ve described, quality and competition, I would say you are low. I’d plan on $100 minimum per hour of time spent...not just hotel time.

As Dr Evil states with expectations of full GFE.

You're beating too much around the fuckimg bush - if you're paying good $$$ then IMO there should be no doubt and agreement on what's expected.

It's not even clear on this thread what exactly it is you want and exactly how much you wanna pay - you seem to be pussyfooting this shit and will likely end up paying hundreds for just dinner and maybe some dances which most on here would see as a waste but it's your $$$.

If you're gonna be out of town then you can't get with her anyway so why not wait till you're back in town and talk to her in person

$300 to take her back to hotel and go Full GFE for 1 hour is appropriate. The dinner and shit is your tip to her. Otherwise too much as you can get as good or better elsewhere via AMP or other venue.

I think $300 is a fair-offer depending on how many hours you expect from her (and assuming you're getting some pussy) - w/e you pay from the get-go will likely get you locked in at that price so if you overpay to get her you will likely have to keep overpaying if u want repeat dates.

I agree with Papi. Wait until your back in town and talk to her in person. Doing this sort of thing via text is a minefield with significantly more mines than field. And make sure that she knows exactly what you're looking for as part of the $300 (or whatever you agree on). If you leave it up to interpretation, then you probably won't be thrilled with her interpretation.

Yeah whenever possible don't negotiate with strippers over text.

Paul Drake's advise is good. Much better to work out a deal face to face, but I have done text deals on occasion that have worked out.

But I try to avoid talking dollars in a text. At that point, if face to face is not possible, old fashioned voice works best.

With my former ATF anytime we negotiated in person things were easy and all parties happy. Any time we negotiated over text it would cause conflict. Near the end we would negotiate in person and then text each other the terms of the deal just so neither person could forget what we agreed to.

My advice is always the same, grow a set and tell her clearly what you want to do. Face to face is best the first time. Text to confirm the day of and for follow up sessions

OP, you need to be a lot more direct. Tell her what it is exactly that you want and how much you want to spend. Its not a "date" you're paying her so tell her what it is that you want to pay for.

Don't bother texting her while you're away. 2 months is like 5 years in stripper time, so anything can happen between now and then. All you'll do by pestering her when you can't pull the trigger is make yourself look desperate and needy, which may make her change her mind the next time you ask. As papi said, you should just wait until you get back in town and see her again in person.

What you probably should have done is try to pull the trigger that night if she was willing. I'm guessing that that the need for pre-event dinner romance is more your issue than hers. All you needed to do was to invite her to your hotel and ask her what she needed for it.

When you see her in person again, just be sure to wear your three piece suit and pretend you're a chemical engineer, like Ricky Boy. tuscl.net

^Actually OP, since you're traveling out of town, read the original article right away. Good stuff. ;)

But if you are out of town and happen to come across any review written by doctor in your search for a new club, just skip it. His drive by reviews are about as useful as a fart in a strong breeze. He's one of the lazy review accumulators on this site who is more interested in collecting review numbers than actually writing one that reflects any time and effort in gathering intel. Scroll through his crap reviews and you'll see he's notorious for it. ☺

Then there are his made up dancer friends. Not only is he lazy, but he's kinda' fucked up in the head too. ;)

"Read the original article right away. Good stuff." I agree. Great for some laughs.

Don't derail this guy's thread - he needs help

"he's kinda' fucked up in the head too." Maybe so, but not to the point that I threaten to "fuck up" someone because he wrote a review I disagree with, like Rick Boy.

But perhaps we should give doctor props for review efficiency. After all, no guy can squeeze more VIP time out of a single hour traveling down a road than doctor can. About the only competition he's had, as far as I can tell, is from joe from nj, who once reviewed a club based upon the number of cars in the parking lot. We'll see if doctor ever figures out how to get one of those through, lol. Now one may question how useful such reviews could really be, but that's not really very important to a guy like doctor - it's all about the numbers baby. ;)

“Then there are his made up dancer friends.”

Idk if that was in reference to me, EveHartley, or another dancer. But DocE was the first TUSCLer I met in person.

Sure he was a customer but we also spent a good amount of time chit chatting about random stuff and I was distracted from work.

At that time, I wondered whether I had wanted to even stay in the dancer directory. But that meeting by itself gave me a positive impression.

Off topic I know. I’ll exit this thread

Papi, he got plenty of good answers already. Doctor is the one who really needs the help now, as has been obvious in all too many of his reviews. ;)

I would love to see this 9. 9's at the clubs I'm used make that in a pretty quick in the club. Are you sure it's a 9 for a place so close to NYC? Not doubting you, but sometimes you get all giddy in the club. That's why you come here, so guys like Papi and 25 can bring you down to earth.

I don't think there are any 9s in New Jersey

One can find 9s in NJ clubs, lol. Some girls are just not equipped to work in NYC. Others have home obligations that make it difficult for them to travel into the city at night to work or to stay ITC until 4 am. And then there are the Russian girls, many of whom cannot work in NYC clubs due to tougher work authorization verification standards.

Some of those Russian girls travel from Brooklyn to places as far as Central CT to the north and Philadelphia to the south.

OMG if you're in another city and won't see her for months, she won't remember and when you get back there she'll probably just ignore you cos she wont know who you are.

Thanks for the advice guys. For clarification, I told her when I leave town and she told me what days she is available before I leave so not trying to text her for months when I'm not around. Another thing is $300 was for a couple hours (guess I should be more direct about timing), which makes it where even if we don't come to an agreement on other activities in person she still makes more than she does in the club, but I still pay less than VIP so not a bad outcome in my opinion. Since it was brought up I'd pay for GFE but would highly doubt $300 would cover that for two hours. Thinking that would run more like $300 per hour.

As stated on other threads when you get into the higher ratings for girls its gets more subjective. She's a 9 in my book, but to others may be an 8 or a 7.

$300 for 2 hours is pretty fantastic, even for a 7/8. Assuming that everyone knows what is expected, etc. Good luck. Let us know how it goes.

"I don't think there are any 9s in New Jersey"

I Ioled.

I think your are too overly concerned/scared about underpaying her and somehow "offending"/pissing her off - 99% of the time it is counterproductive to be so whiteknight-ish with strippers

Thanks for clarifying JD. Here are a few thoughts:

First, don't chase it too hard. Either it's going to happen or it isn't. Strippers are flaky by nature. The best you can do is to keep it as casual as possible and otherwise make it easy for her to say yes.

So with that said, I wouldn't try to plan it too far in advance. Text her on the day that you'd like to see her and ask her if she's available that night. Also, in the spirit of making it easy, the less elaborate the planned event, the more likely that she will (1) agree in the first place; and (2) actually show up.

If I were you, I'd shoot her this text in the early afternoon: "Are you still free tonight? If so, are you interested in grabbing a couple of drinks and a side stop after?" That's it. If she is radio silent, then don't bother following up as it isn't going to happen and you'll just look needy. If she responds in the negative, then just thank her and move on.

if she responds in the positive, then you might simply respond with something like: "Cool. How much will you need for this?" Let us know when you get to this point and we'll go to Module 2 - Negotiating a Reasonable OTC Rate. ;)

So says the guy who thinks the key to OTC is wearing a three piece suit in dive bars and pretending to be a chemical engineer.

My OTC appointment set up is like this period I text the day before at some point in the afternoon saying I'll be in on day X would like to grab a drink with you outside the club. Yes she responds positively I say great and we work from there if she doesn't I'll just respond catch a next time period it's easy simple and quick

-->"Actually, credit goes to Subraman for this advice, don't be specific about the number of hours it will be. Strippers don't watch the time like escorts do, a lot of dancers will be fine with doing a couple hours in your hotel OTC for $300. Only increase the amount of money if she seems hesitant on doing it for that much."

I'll re-confirm that. In my experience, one of the biggest advantages of strippers vs escorts is that most strippers (except those who have very professional business models) don't think in terms of by-the-hour, they think about the final payoff. When I give a stripper $350, she tends not to care if the OTC is 2 hours, or 6 hours, or overnights -- AS LONG AS I DON'T TRAIN HER TO THINK THAT WAY. What I do is just say "we'll grab dinner and drinks, then head back to the hotel". Then I let her play the tune -- and usually, once a stripper starts drinking, she doesn't want to stop so fast; she's usually the one suggesting one more drink or heading to the next bar, and she's the one who will suggest she just crash with me in the room because she's too tired to drive home.

Also, don't say "dinner and hang out", specifically mention your hotel if you're too shy to mention the word "sex".

If you're not going to be in town for a couple of months, leave her with a final text, "Had a really great time, and looking forward to dinner and fun next time I'm in town!". My thinking is, she'll have completely forgotten the entire conversation by the time you're back in two months, but if that's the last text she has from you, then when you text her you're coming into town, she'll just see that that was the last thing you discussed. I would not discuss pricing or anything else 2 months in advance.

^^^ Good advice.

I generally agree with what Sub has to say, but I'm not sure I am completely on board with this approach for a guy who isn't used to taking these girls OTC. His first goal for the evening is to have her on his bed naked and preferably coherent. The problem with letting the girl completely lead the charge is that some of these girls lack self control and the longer the night drags on, the more ways that the night can go sideways. Not all girls are pleasant drunks or can resist the urge to overdue it when partying on someone else's dime.

If I was the OP, I'd keep it simple. A good bar trip is fine, but anything beyond a couple of hours for the warm up can be problematic. A seasoned monger might be able to sense it and change direction, but the OP is not that. Also, once he has already breached the OTC barrier with her, the next times get easier and he might be able to take more of a risk in letting her call the pre-sex OTC shots.

Sadly I speak from experience with this and it is one of the reasons that I do not plan extended nights out with strippers that I do not know well. If I spend 4 or more hours OTC with a stripper, but end the night not getting laid because she got fucked up on booze or something she covertly picked up in our travels, then the whole event was a colossal waste to me. And no, no club hound is so good that he can reliably forecast a girl's behavior OTC simply from his time with her ITC.

-->"I generally agree with what Sub has to say, but I'm not sure I am completely on board with this approach for a guy who isn't used to taking these girls OTC. His first goal for the evening is to have her on his bed naked and preferably coherent. The problem with letting the girl completely lead the charge is that some of these girls lack self control and the longer the night drags on, the more ways that the night can go sideways. Not all girls are pleasant drunks or can resist the urge to overdue it when partying on someone else's dime. "

I actually agree with this correction -- when I said "let her play the tune", I didn't mean totally let her dictate the entire pre-hotel activity. To over-generalize a bit, strippers are insanely, impossibly fun buzzed, but mean horrible drunks -- and many of them are incapable of calling the partying to an end when the alcohol is on someone else's dime. I've had some OTCs ruined by not keeping a close enough eye on her. So, by all means, get to the hotel room as soon before she's a mess. Make sure you keep your eyes on the prize, which is sex with an enthusiastic stripper in the hotel room, and she'll need to be no more than buzzed for that.

Seems many of you guys don't explicitly let her know what is expected; i.e. sex - which is kinda understandable since it kinda makes feel too transactional.

Seems many of you implicitly let her know the expectation - e.g. "we'll meet at the hotel" - have you not been in a situation where the dancer acted coy in the absence of stating exactly what was expected and she still wanted full-payment w/o sex b/c it wasn't explicitly stated? In the past I've read on TUSCL such a thing happening where the PL ended up paying a couple of hundred just for dinner when he had more in mind but the dancer acted as if "she had no idea he had more in mind" - no doubt a ROB (unlikely she was that naive).

In addition to what rick and Subraman said, I’d also not be quite so vague about what you want. Make sure she understands and is on board with naked sexy time, irrespective of what other activities you elect to pursue.

Also shit can that “grab dinner and hang out” for $300 baloney. If you wait to “discuss a tip in person,” she’s likely to want $300 just for showing up and having dinner, and then want a similar or greater sum as tip for being your rental pussy.

Whoever said that dinner and drinks was the tip is spot on. The cash is for sex, not hanging out.

After 40 years, I’m ok with using words like “fuck” and “sex” and “blowjob” and “tie you to a chair and whip you and use you till you beg for mercy” when describing what I expect from an encounter, but I’m aware that you might not be completely comfortable being explicit about what you want.

Be as explicit as you’re comfortable with, and see how she responds. Hell, if she’s agreeing to do it with you, she’s probably done it before, so she might be telling you what she’s cool with.

I am very rarely explicit. When you say “go back to my hotel,” they know what that means.

Perhaps in situations like this a dick-pic would come in handy

:)

Several people on the thread could argue for the short-dick discount!

Did anyone else read the OP and think that dancer is likely just full of SS and will never meet up with this pl otc?

I'm cheering in your corner JD..... but just got a bad feeling about this

Yes - it crossed my mind that the OP may not be aware that getting a dancer to say yes to OTC is a lot easier than getting her to follow thru.

What doctor said, in the countless times i've done this over many years, I can count on one hand the number of times that a girl seemed confused about what that meant. And for the few that did respond with something like "What do you want to do there?" a simple amused "What do you think I want to do with you in a hotel?" sent the point home.

Its not gonna happen. The more awkward and indirect you are about, she's just gonna ignore you. Tricks are a dime a dozen.

if she asks what you wanna do, look her in the eyes and tell her "I wanna do you"

If she is really a 9 Id offer 400 just not to low ball but that would be my top price. And as others have said be direct and tell her exactly what you want. But 400 and dinner should be enough.

how much for dinner though?

Do sushi or seafood

As others have said, with dancers, unlike escorts, time is usually not a factor, and 300 is not low balling, in fact it might be a bit high. With my last regular OTC gal only needed 200 a session, which was a lot less than the 300 / half hour VIP dance. According to her 200 was little under the amount of money than she paid in tip out and the clubs per dance cut, which meant any money she earned the rest of the night was hers, especially if she got a second OTC that night. Our time together was usually and hour and a half, and she would often stay until about a half hour before she had to be at the club or her next OTC. Depending on how much time was left, we would often go for another round.

How are her dances? If they are your standard lap dances, she might not even follow through with the OTC.