I live near two clubs. Both clubs have the same owner, have the same type of customer, are in the same kind of neighborhood, have about the same rules involving what is allowed, and have been around about the same amount of time. However, one club usually has around two or three times as many customers, more strippers, strippers who stay longer, and from my subjective perspective more attractive strippers. Would the problem with the less successful club most likely be the manager? I'm guessing it is but, if not, what are the other possibilities? If it is the manager, then what are the top reasons you see for why a strip club manager is bad? A manager who is good at sucking up to the owner but treats employees like shit? Something else?
A lot dancers I talk to just fuckkng hate when a club doesn’t have their back. I would totally understand that, they want to feel safe. But unless we get more details it would be hard to say.
Some of it's the owner. I know of one owner who had 5 clubs at his peak, two that tried to be upscale, the rest were just dives. Three of the clubs were almost identical style, but only one was good, and was one of my favorites at the time until some bigger money brought better clubs.
The main difference among the three was the manager. The owner basically ignored this club, it wasn't as close to the downtown as the others. The other two clubs he was always there showing off and butting in. The one club he ignored, the manager who ran it was smart and was picky on dancers he chose, and would fire dancers who caused trouble.
That was about ten years ago, several owners and managers since, and this club is to be completely avoided.
It sounds like you are talking about Babes and Harem House in Indianapolis. Babes always has more customers and dancers. The two clubs are very similar and a short distance from each other.
Sinclair I was thinking the same with no idea of which city he was in.
I have no idea why we would expect same ownership to have same results. Don't even see that consistency in the corporate places. In any business management is key.
It’s all about the stripper. Some managers know how to attract and keep good talent. Treat them properly and provide an environment where they can consistently earn.
Don't underestimate the impact of subtle factors such as the color of the carpet, style of hand dryer in the men's room, and the width of parking spots.
"It’s all about the stripper. Some managers know how to attract and keep good talent." then you go on to state "provide an environment where they can consistently earn." which one is it? The quantity and quality of the customer (provide an environment where they can consistently earn) is equally as important as the dancers.... good quality dancer will go where the money is to be made. Chicken vs egg argument.
"Treat them properly" is the only valid non contradictory point you made with one notable exception... if the club has high foot traffic and money beings spent freely, most dancers will put up with a certain level of management disrespect to make the money. I'm saying it's ethically right on mgt's part but just a part of the shady culture of SC's.
flagooner is on point --- give the "good" customers an experience where they send money and the higher quality dancers will follow. you cannot attract and keep good dancers without good customers, no matter how dancer friendly the manager. To Flagooner's points I'd add: staff training, Dj's ability to read the crowd, safety both inside and outside the club, and many other intangibles that keep the quality customers coming back.
Most bad managers are a result of bad ownership, or a miss directed ownership vision for the club. For the most part managers or GM's are not trained in hospitality/entertainment management and don't understand the economics or HR side of their jobs, because the owners don't want professional management because they would have to pay them a competitive wage in the hospitality /entertainment industry and provide the legal protections for violations in contractual agreements.
-->""It’s all about the stripper. Some managers know how to attract and keep good talent." then you go on to state "provide an environment where they can consistently earn." which one is it? The quantity and quality of the customer (provide an environment where they can consistently earn) is equally as important as the dancers.... good quality dancer will go where the money is to be made. Chicken vs egg argument."
I think that's right on. This is clearly a feedback loop. My gut feel is that the stripper side of the equation is a bit more important, but it is absolutely the case that no matter how well the strippers are being treated, the hottest ones will follow the money even if they're not treated well. Customers do go where the attractive strippers are, but they also go where they are getting the experience they want. I've seen examples of all of these: clubs with not so hot strippers but draw lots of customers, clubs with hot strippers but don't draw lots of customers due to the experience (these eventually often eventually end with not-so-hot strippers), clubs that treat the girls really badly but have hot lineups because the girls make so much (that is, the club is drawing high spending customers). There's a lot more going on than "it's only about the strippers", it is definitely more than that, even if the strippers are the most important ingredient.
At this point without knowing either of the clubs involved nor knowing about their profitability, I’ll take the OP at his word, and if I knew the owner or was the owner, or hired as a consultant, I’d offer a suggestion, try a 60 day swap. Send the successful manager to the less successful club, and watch them closely, if the less successful club starts to turn around, you have the answer, keep close tabs on the better club so it doesn’t backslide, at the point where you have some answers. That is where and when a solution can be crafted.
You need to keep your best strippers happy. Part of that is treating them well, like flexible work schedule. Another part is giving them an environment where they can earn, like letting them do what works for them in VIP and on the floor.
Incidentally, the hottest strippers are not necessarily the top earners. Quality of dance, personality, work ethic, and sales technique also are important. A club can succeed without the hottest dancers but, yes, they usually go hand in hand.
-->"You need to keep your best strippers happy. Part of that is treating them well, like flexible work schedule. Another part is giving them an environment where they can earn, like letting them do what works for them in VIP and on the floor."
Mark, this is a good theory, but in practice (and I'm guessing some strippers can confirm), there are lots of very successful clubs where the strippers are treated atrociously -- but the girls stay, because they make so much money. "Keeping the best strippers happy", like anything else, isn't as simple as "you have to do X, Y, and Z". There is no general rule that in clubs that are super successful, the girls are treated the best (beyond $$$).
All else being equal, I’d guess it’s management too.
There is a club that I hadn’t worked at for about a year, that I visited as a customer about a month ago.
I had casual conversation with a several of the dancers, and a lot of them had moved over from another club that’s more upscale because of management bs and drama.
The club is on the upswing. It used to allow some of those with lesser mainstream appeal and more alternative aesthetics, but that seems to be changing.
Likewise, the more upscale club is starting to allow more “flaws.” Not drastically, but enough to make me notice after I was gone for a few months.
———
But more important than being nice to dancers, I think, is being consistent, with customers and dancers both.
For example, one customer at a club is friends with a manager, so he and his friends were allowed to use a cabana for free for single dances.
But on the other hand, there was another customer I had a cabana with recently. He first dealt with a manager-the one who allows occasional free cabana uses- making a big deal with his card not going through (Since I guess the waitress couldn’t handle that by herself?)
All that needed to happen was the card to be ran again and sure enough the transaction went through.
Then the customer decided he wanted to have a cigarette 35 minutes in, so we both go outside together for five minutes or so and come back, since the hour wasn’t up. And then that same manager went over and heckled us with “do you have a waitress”
Those cabanas are expensive and I was embarrassed. I’m grateful that he was at least gracious about it and talked about possibly meeting up at the club again when I get back in town...despite how he was treated :(
@ Subraman
“ treated atrociously but the girls stay because they make so much money “
Making so much money is usually the priority, and if they’re making bank they’re happy. That’s the usual stripper’s definition of being treated well.
At one time the owner of the Columbia SC Platinum Plus also owned Heartbreakers in the same city. They were only about 5 minutes apart by car and the dancers were free to work in either club. They were both operated the same except that Heartbreakers did have a kitchen. Both were operating under grandfather rights since both were operating under new zoning laws.
But Platinum Plus was always the premier club. The most and hottest dancers worked there and it drew the most customers. When a dancer got in trouble with management at PP they were sent down to work at Heartbreakers. Get in trouble at Heartbreakers and you were out on you ass. Oddly the corporate HQ for the PP chain was located next door to Heartbreakers.
Sinclair and Racejeff above are both correct, the two clubs are Babes and Harem House in Indianapolis. So it's noticeable enough that others immediately think of those two. The top local club is Brads Brass Flamingo. I once asked a dancer who had worked at most of the local clubs why other local strip club managers didn't study Brads to see what they were doing right. She replied that most local strip club managers think they are smarter than everyone else and can't learn anything from anyone else. Successful practices don't seem to be copied in the strip club industry in general which may be one factor in the decline of the industry as a whole. The comment above saying club owners do not want to spend money for professional management is probably correct. That may be misguided. I also think the industry is too insulated from competition. There are a lot of legal barriers involving zoning and licensing that keeps new clubs from opening. This initially benefited the existing clubs by blocking potential competition but in the long run is hurting them because it is competition that would replace poorly run clubs with better run clubs. Customers are slowly being driven off by multiple bad experiences when they visit old poorly run clubs.
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The main difference among the three was the manager. The owner basically ignored this club, it wasn't as close to the downtown as the others. The other two clubs he was always there showing off and butting in. The one club he ignored, the manager who ran it was smart and was picky on dancers he chose, and would fire dancers who caused trouble.
That was about ten years ago, several owners and managers since, and this club is to be completely avoided.
I have no idea why we would expect same ownership to have same results. Don't even see that consistency in the corporate places. In any business management is key.
"Treat them properly" is the only valid non contradictory point you made with one notable exception... if the club has high foot traffic and money beings spent freely, most dancers will put up with a certain level of management disrespect to make the money. I'm saying it's ethically right on mgt's part but just a part of the shady culture of SC's.
flagooner is on point --- give the "good" customers an experience where they send money and the higher quality dancers will follow. you cannot attract and keep good dancers without good customers, no matter how dancer friendly the manager. To Flagooner's points I'd add: staff training, Dj's ability to read the crowd, safety both inside and outside the club, and many other intangibles that keep the quality customers coming back.
Most bad managers are a result of bad ownership, or a miss directed ownership vision for the club. For the most part managers or GM's are not trained in hospitality/entertainment management and don't understand the economics or HR side of their jobs, because the owners don't want professional management because they would have to pay them a competitive wage in the hospitality /entertainment industry and provide the legal protections for violations in contractual agreements.
I think that's right on. This is clearly a feedback loop. My gut feel is that the stripper side of the equation is a bit more important, but it is absolutely the case that no matter how well the strippers are being treated, the hottest ones will follow the money even if they're not treated well. Customers do go where the attractive strippers are, but they also go where they are getting the experience they want. I've seen examples of all of these: clubs with not so hot strippers but draw lots of customers, clubs with hot strippers but don't draw lots of customers due to the experience (these eventually often eventually end with not-so-hot strippers), clubs that treat the girls really badly but have hot lineups because the girls make so much (that is, the club is drawing high spending customers). There's a lot more going on than "it's only about the strippers", it is definitely more than that, even if the strippers are the most important ingredient.
You need to keep your best strippers happy. Part of that is treating them well, like flexible work schedule. Another part is giving them an environment where they can earn, like letting them do what works for them in VIP and on the floor.
Incidentally, the hottest strippers are not necessarily the top earners. Quality of dance, personality, work ethic, and sales technique also are important. A club can succeed without the hottest dancers but, yes, they usually go hand in hand.
Mark, this is a good theory, but in practice (and I'm guessing some strippers can confirm), there are lots of very successful clubs where the strippers are treated atrociously -- but the girls stay, because they make so much money. "Keeping the best strippers happy", like anything else, isn't as simple as "you have to do X, Y, and Z". There is no general rule that in clubs that are super successful, the girls are treated the best (beyond $$$).
There is a club that I hadn’t worked at for about a year, that I visited as a customer about a month ago.
I had casual conversation with a several of the dancers, and a lot of them had moved over from another club that’s more upscale because of management bs and drama.
The club is on the upswing. It used to allow some of those with lesser mainstream appeal and more alternative aesthetics, but that seems to be changing.
Likewise, the more upscale club is starting to allow more “flaws.” Not drastically, but enough to make me notice after I was gone for a few months.
———
But more important than being nice to dancers, I think, is being consistent, with customers and dancers both.
For example, one customer at a club is friends with a manager, so he and his friends were allowed to use a cabana for free for single dances.
But on the other hand, there was another customer I had a cabana with recently. He first dealt with a manager-the one who allows occasional free cabana uses- making a big deal with his card not going through (Since I guess the waitress couldn’t handle that by herself?)
All that needed to happen was the card to be ran again and sure enough the transaction went through.
Then the customer decided he wanted to have a cigarette 35 minutes in, so we both go outside together for five minutes or so and come back, since the hour wasn’t up. And then that same manager went over and heckled us with “do you have a waitress”
Those cabanas are expensive and I was embarrassed. I’m grateful that he was at least gracious about it and talked about possibly meeting up at the club again when I get back in town...despite how he was treated :(
“ treated atrociously but the girls stay because they make so much money “
Making so much money is usually the priority, and if they’re making bank they’re happy. That’s the usual stripper’s definition of being treated well.
But Platinum Plus was always the premier club. The most and hottest dancers worked there and it drew the most customers. When a dancer got in trouble with management at PP they were sent down to work at Heartbreakers. Get in trouble at Heartbreakers and you were out on you ass. Oddly the corporate HQ for the PP chain was located next door to Heartbreakers.