In our current society, where offspring aren’t taught and encouraged to grow up until it’s almost too late, yes.
Three hundred years ago, 16 and 17 year olds, and even younger, were often married with jobs and their own household. They were more or less economically forced to do so, as their parents could only afford to support them for so long.
As societies become more social and wealthy, and less “pioneer”, the perceived age of adulthood goes up. Simply because it can.
Evolutionarily, of course, we *physically* mature much younger than even that (though the age of physical maturity can vary significantly by ethnicity), but that’s a hold over from our less longer lived ancestors, and our society definitely doesn’t not encourage, and often actively *dis*courages, mental and emotional maturity at the same time as our bodies are ready.
"I don't know WTF that means. Are you trying to impress us with your vast vocabulary?"
What? I was referring to FTS' comment about 17 year olds being post-pubescent.
'If by "child" you mean "prepubescent small person," then no, generally speaking 17 year old people are post-pubescent.'
If she was 17 and he knew it, then he should be punished. If she was 17 and used a fake ID to get her job, then he should be fined and nothing else. But 18 is the law, so .......
Also, that club is an Extras club so that might make a difference to me also. I don't want to go to a club and get caught with a 17 year old.
Nina was just imitating me. I'm sure she knows intra-pubescent is just "pubescent." Good one Nina! Yes, I guess some 17 year olds are pubescent people.
There is no other way to do it with age of consent. If not, then the law will only protect the white middle class, with anyone else the Defense would just try to show that the law should be exempted. I would always be the minor's sexual history which is on trial.
We have had problems, serious ones, in our Mexican bar underground circuit. Girls have called on the phone and gotten a verbal permission from the talent agent. It got onto TV news.
So since, the talent agents have always been there personally and seen the id's.
@DC9428 I don’t know all about that but In Jewish tradition the age has been 13 was when a young man or woman were celebrated as a rite of adulthood called a barmitzvah for men and a basmitzvah for women.
I got my first period days before I turned 12. I was not ready for sex or marriage. lol.
And where I live the age of sexual consent is 16, which was good for the guy I lost my virginity to because he was in his 20s. Not that he cared. He actually thought it was 18 and that he was committing statutory rape. I had to show him online that it was not statutory rape. This was after we had already had sex several times. Apparently he was going through a slight phase of pedophilia.
We should wait for our "woman" expert vincemichaels to chime in. On second though he previously did chime in. According to him a woman is a woman no matter what he age is.
My opinion, a 17 year old is not necessarily a child but she sure as hell is not an adult either. She's in that limbo zone in between but the law says she is a minor and the law says she shouldn't be stripping for older pervs.
"The rational part of a teen’s brain isn’t fully developed and won’t be until age 25 or so. The rational part of a teen’s brain isn’t fully developed and won’t be until age 25 or so.
In fact, recent research has found that adult and teen brains work differently. Adults think with the prefrontal cortex, the brain’s rational part. This is the part of the brain that responds to situations with good judgment and an awareness of long-term consequences. Teens process information with the amygdala. This is the emotional part.
In teen’s brains, the connections between the emotional part of the brain and the decision-making center are still developing—and not necessarily at the same rate. That’s why when teens experience overwhelming emotional input, they can’t explain later what they were thinking. They weren’t thinking as much as they were feeling."
I KNOW how I was, how my friends were, and how adults were. We, the first two, took a lot longer than high school to learn to be the latter. Especially, responsibility.
+ What clubber said. It is also why many teens die. They cannot rationalize consequences.So a week after getting their license they are driving 2X the speed limit on a wet, twisty road they have never been on before. They give no thought to "if I fuck up one tiny bit here, I'm a smear on the highway. Not worth the risk." Actually that sums it up. The teen brain cannot say "Not worth the risk".
I learned about the brain not developing until 25 in high school.
Adults process info with both the prefrontal cortex and the amygdala. Yes, the amygdala is in charge of emotions. The human body has alarm circuits there. That is also where stimuli can be decided as harmful. The hippocampus sends memory information to the amygdala. The amygdala is an important part of the brain for a teen or an adult. This is Psych 101 (literally, we were taught this when I took psych 101 as a gen ed). Pavlov's dogs, anyone? Reward system? Threat responses? Amygdala.
As far as the story goes, fuck that guy. He knowingly hired a 17 year-old to work in a strip club. He knew it was illegal. He deserves whatever he gets. So, again, fuck that guy.
All of us (I hope) should agree that there's an age at which people should be considered minors and not adults. You may argue that the set age is too high or even too low for certain activities, but I'm pretty sure that strip clubs aren't a great battleground for that debate. Pretty much any thread on here affirms that strip clubs aren't necessarily healthy environments for people who are solidly adults, let alone people in their mid/late teens.
Even if the age of consent in your state is 16, I still think that the minimum allowable age for adult industry sex work (including strip clubs) should be 18. And, to be honest, I'd be fine if the law set the minimum age for adult industry work at 21.
Whenever threads like this occur here, I see a fair amount of squinting, smearing Vaseline on the lens, and long-winded rationalization that really feels like a façade for guys who ultimately want to create a cum puddle in their pants while a mid-teen girl grinds their dick.
Or, perhaps they want more than that from mid/late teen girls...
Which is why I always cringe at threads like this on here.
Ish I sorta agree with you there, I don’t find the younger ones very appealing, true they often are very pretty, but there is no attraction for me, usually when they are under 27 or so, my own sweet spot is usually 27–35, occasionally a younger one might seem to be cute, but as I normally interact with these girls like Subraman sitting and drinking for an hour or three, the younger girls just can’t keep my attention. I usually do few dances, but end up seeing some of them OTC if we have a connection.
17 year olds are children. They aren’t adults yet. Their brain chemicals are still all jacked up, and they are wired to be too trusting, to take risks, and to be uncaring of those weaker than themselves.
So are 18 year olds, but that’s our legal age for most stuff. The military takes full advantage of young ppl’s fucked up brains. If the age for joining up was 30, just imagine how empty the ranks would be lol. Least they offer something for the risks tho.
"^ That's because by 30 most people already have the direction of their lives established."
That's kinda the point. Minors have no clue what adult life is. Even the ones who have been through a lot really don't know what being an adult is. Once you become an adult, it can still take years to learn. (Shit, some people will never learn)
I obviously agree that just because the age of consent is 16 in many states here, doesn't mean they should be able to dance. The "adult industry" is for... Adults. Not minors.
Grown adults truly won’t take the kinds of risks adolescents will, and they won’t hurt ppl as callously. They are biologically wired to take risks to possibly further the species. Some succeed and many fail.
There has to be a cutoff at some age - I do agree it's kinda blurry - i.e. a girl that is 17&3/4 is a child that does not know what she's doing but 3 months later she's 18 and it's all good - kinda nonsensical but then again one would think there has to be a cutoff.
I do agree the manager acted wrongly - but what about the girl - it doesn't seem she was forced by the manager or anyone else to dance-there and she had a fake-ID which one would assume she got on her own volition in order to dance.
I have def met girls in the past that couldn't wait till they turned 18 to dance - some of these girls have been fucking since they were 13 so they are not exactly innocent - if she decided to do this on her own then a lot of the blame is on her (she's old enough to know what's right from wrong) - the manager should have known-better but then again who's to say he wasn't trying to help her out or her trying to convince him to let her dance b/c she was in dire-straits and really needed $$$ - i.e. I'm assuming she was dancing out of her own volition and not being forced to - but the law is the law but then again in past decades there where people who would lie about their age to get particular job or even get in the military (my dad's first job was as a trucker and he lied about his age so he could get a trucker's driver-license and get to work - way back in the day).
If you make the line somehow flexible, then age of consent will only protect the white middle-class, and it will always be the minor's sexual history which is getting put on trial.
Papi hit the nail on the head. There has to be some kind of cutoff. As a society we've essentially gone with 18.
That said I think we can agree that it's a arbitrary number. I've met 17 year old's who absolutely acted like adults and I've also met 35 year old's who acted like children.
Call.Me.Ishmael+1
I don't know that arguing for 17 y/os being able to dance in the adult industry is the hill I want to die on.
I also agree with @Bj99 that young adults, incl. 18 y/os often act like they are invincible. That's what the military banks on when a fresh crop of 18y/o enlist every year.
SJG said: "I don't think someone should ever engage in sex acts with anyone who seems too immature or emotional vulnerable, or otherwise not ready...."
99 said, "Grown adults truly won’t take the kinds of risks adolescents will, and they won’t hurt ppl as callously."
I decided to check this against my own risk actions. First risk at about 10, sever finger laceration. About 12, cracked skull tossed off horse. At 18 gunshot wound. At 21 broken ankle skydiving. 23, knee, softball., Then since about 50 on, other broken ankle Harley, Broken foot, Harley, Torn rotator cuff, weights.
So, it seems youth and senior moments are the time frame of risks. :)
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Three hundred years ago, 16 and 17 year olds, and even younger, were often married with jobs and their own household. They were more or less economically forced to do so, as their parents could only afford to support them for so long.
As societies become more social and wealthy, and less “pioneer”, the perceived age of adulthood goes up. Simply because it can.
Evolutionarily, of course, we *physically* mature much younger than even that (though the age of physical maturity can vary significantly by ethnicity), but that’s a hold over from our less longer lived ancestors, and our society definitely doesn’t not encourage, and often actively *dis*courages, mental and emotional maturity at the same time as our bodies are ready.
Although I consider many people in their twenties children, too. Couldn't stand them in high school and can't stand them now.
If by "child" you mean "younger than the legal child/adult age threshold in the united states, which is 18," then yes, 17 < 18.
If by "child" you mean "prepubescent small person," then no, generally speaking 17 year old people are post-pubescent.
What? I was referring to FTS' comment about 17 year olds being post-pubescent.
'If by "child" you mean "prepubescent small person," then no, generally speaking 17 year old people are post-pubescent.'
Duh.
Also, that club is an Extras club so that might make a difference to me also. I don't want to go to a club and get caught with a 17 year old.
I've never heard that one before Nina dropped it on us.
We have had problems, serious ones, in our Mexican bar underground circuit. Girls have called on the phone and gotten a verbal permission from the talent agent. It got onto TV news.
So since, the talent agents have always been there personally and seen the id's.
SJG
Sarcasm, completely intended.
And where I live the age of sexual consent is 16, which was good for the guy I lost my virginity to because he was in his 20s. Not that he cared. He actually thought it was 18 and that he was committing statutory rape. I had to show him online that it was not statutory rape. This was after we had already had sex several times. Apparently he was going through a slight phase of pedophilia.
My opinion, a 17 year old is not necessarily a child but she sure as hell is not an adult either. She's in that limbo zone in between but the law says she is a minor and the law says she shouldn't be stripping for older pervs.
SJG
"The rational part of a teen’s brain isn’t fully developed and won’t be until age 25 or so. The rational part of a teen’s brain isn’t fully developed and won’t be until age 25 or so.
In fact, recent research has found that adult and teen brains work differently. Adults think with the prefrontal cortex, the brain’s rational part. This is the part of the brain that responds to situations with good judgment and an awareness of long-term consequences. Teens process information with the amygdala. This is the emotional part.
In teen’s brains, the connections between the emotional part of the brain and the decision-making center are still developing—and not necessarily at the same rate. That’s why when teens experience overwhelming emotional input, they can’t explain later what they were thinking. They weren’t thinking as much as they were feeling."
What you wrote would be equally as accurate if you substitute teen with liberal and adult with conservative.
Adults process info with both the prefrontal cortex and the amygdala. Yes, the amygdala is in charge of emotions. The human body has alarm circuits there. That is also where stimuli can be decided as harmful. The hippocampus sends memory information to the amygdala. The amygdala is an important part of the brain for a teen or an adult. This is Psych 101 (literally, we were taught this when I took psych 101 as a gen ed). Pavlov's dogs, anyone? Reward system? Threat responses? Amygdala.
As far as the story goes, fuck that guy. He knowingly hired a 17 year-old to work in a strip club. He knew it was illegal. He deserves whatever he gets. So, again, fuck that guy.
All of us (I hope) should agree that there's an age at which people should be considered minors and not adults. You may argue that the set age is too high or even too low for certain activities, but I'm pretty sure that strip clubs aren't a great battleground for that debate. Pretty much any thread on here affirms that strip clubs aren't necessarily healthy environments for people who are solidly adults, let alone people in their mid/late teens.
Even if the age of consent in your state is 16, I still think that the minimum allowable age for adult industry sex work (including strip clubs) should be 18. And, to be honest, I'd be fine if the law set the minimum age for adult industry work at 21.
Whenever threads like this occur here, I see a fair amount of squinting, smearing Vaseline on the lens, and long-winded rationalization that really feels like a façade for guys who ultimately want to create a cum puddle in their pants while a mid-teen girl grinds their dick.
Or, perhaps they want more than that from mid/late teen girls...
Which is why I always cringe at threads like this on here.
So are 18 year olds, but that’s our legal age for most stuff. The military takes full advantage of young ppl’s fucked up brains. If the age for joining up was 30, just imagine how empty the ranks would be lol. Least they offer something for the risks tho.
That's kinda the point. Minors have no clue what adult life is. Even the ones who have been through a lot really don't know what being an adult is. Once you become an adult, it can still take years to learn. (Shit, some people will never learn)
I obviously agree that just because the age of consent is 16 in many states here, doesn't mean they should be able to dance. The "adult industry" is for... Adults. Not minors.
I do agree the manager acted wrongly - but what about the girl - it doesn't seem she was forced by the manager or anyone else to dance-there and she had a fake-ID which one would assume she got on her own volition in order to dance.
I have def met girls in the past that couldn't wait till they turned 18 to dance - some of these girls have been fucking since they were 13 so they are not exactly innocent - if she decided to do this on her own then a lot of the blame is on her (she's old enough to know what's right from wrong) - the manager should have known-better but then again who's to say he wasn't trying to help her out or her trying to convince him to let her dance b/c she was in dire-straits and really needed $$$ - i.e. I'm assuming she was dancing out of her own volition and not being forced to - but the law is the law but then again in past decades there where people who would lie about their age to get particular job or even get in the military (my dad's first job was as a trucker and he lied about his age so he could get a trucker's driver-license and get to work - way back in the day).
SJG
That said I think we can agree that it's a arbitrary number. I've met 17 year old's who absolutely acted like adults and I've also met 35 year old's who acted like children.
Not all states use 18yo as an absolute line. But to protect minors I do say that there have to be absolute lines.
Usually when people violate this, it is because they do not care.
SJG
Because I'm immature.
I don't pursue youngsters.
Are you saying that when you were still underage that you were violated by an older woman?
SJG
SJG
I don't know that arguing for 17 y/os being able to dance in the adult industry is the hill I want to die on.
I also agree with @Bj99 that young adults, incl. 18 y/os often act like they are invincible. That's what the military banks on when a fresh crop of 18y/o enlist every year.
... or asleep.
I decided to check this against my own risk actions. First risk at about 10, sever finger laceration. About 12, cracked skull tossed off horse. At 18 gunshot wound. At 21 broken ankle skydiving. 23, knee, softball., Then since about 50 on, other broken ankle Harley, Broken foot, Harley, Torn rotator cuff, weights.
So, it seems youth and senior moments are the time frame of risks. :)
That does seem to come with age, but not for all! :)