I think he is trying to divert our attention away from something that is bad for him. Bannon and Erik Prince connection fixed by firing Bannon??? But will it come back? Obviously trying to get other countries (including Afganistan) to help with the cost and methods of fighting terrorism in Afg and else. Don't count on Russia for help there.
Hard war to fight without philosophical changes in camelland. Let Affy girls get naked on stage.
I'll go to Afganistan right after the wall is built, Obama care is fixed or replaced, taxes are reformed fairly, free trade becomes fair trade, immigration is humanly managed, manufacturing jobs come back to the US, the climate warming is slowed down, Trump releases his tax returns (the audit must be over now and what about all the previous years where audits are complete) and he quits vacationing every weekend on our nickel.
^^^ You're a known anti Trumpeteer so I thought I'd start with you. Looks like the football game and the speech have the same results in the end, they both mean nothing.
It was a decent speech, but blatant in its intent to change the narrative.
Trump's criticized the war in Afghanistan for years as being futile and waste of money and human life. Now he's changed his mind, following pretty much the same policy as Bush & Obama.
Nobody knew Afghanistan could be so complicated...
Trump's strategy for Afghanistan is completely different than Bush or Obama ( whose strategy was Bush Lite ).
Afghanistan: We will stay there and kill terrorists but no more nation building. That's up to you, along with getting rid of corruption. If you don't get your act together, you'll be on your own. Time to step up.
Pakistan: Remember those Billions we've given you ? That ends today. We expect you to put an end to harboring terrorists that kill Americans. If you don't, we'll use our diplomatic, economic, and intelligence assets to make life hell for you. Meanwhile, we've given our military the green light to pursue terrorists into your country and kill them.
India: You know what the Pakistanis fear most ? Friendly relations between India and Afghanistan, essentially surrounding their country. Feel free to start down that path. The door is open.
I don't know whether this will work, but it's never been tried before.
Did Obama serve? No. Has anyone in his family served? No. Did he send 100,000 troops to Afghanistan? Yes. Did any of you bleeding hearts Complain? No. Are progressives, liberals and Democrats hypocrites? All the time. Charlottesville is the single biggest scam ever. How many of you can look at it honestly? Figured none of you could man up and be honest. KKK/Nazis - opposite side of the same sick coin from antifa and progressives.
I don't understand why they got rid of the second round of cuts to 53. Now, they need to play a lot of scrubs in the third and fourth preseason games who have zero chance of making the roster. They'll try to hide anyone with potential. It'll be chaos going through the entire waiver wire in 24 hours.
Yeah perfect leftie response random. Inane and meaningless. An ass is made up of two cheeks and so was Charlottesville. You're just mad because Trump was partially right. He should have said t here are no decent people on either side.
@Skibum you can't seriously be drawing moral equivalencies, between Fascist and anti-Facist, that is just sick.
Sorry nobody gets a pass on this one, this is one, where if you aren't against The Klan, Storm Front, Neo-Nazis, and the rest of those hate groups, than you are one of them!
So, a group of people dressed in black carrying weapons tries to violently prevent a free speech event because they disagree with their conservative viewpoint. They call themselves anti-fascist and anyone who opposes them is called a Nazi.
Has no one read about the beginnings of the Nazi party in the 1930s with Brown Shirts violently shutting down opposing views ?
The so-called anti-fa is acting exactly like the nazis did. In their minds, anyone who disagrees with their orthodoxy must be crushed.
Fuck that they declared themselves I'm not defending any position to people that think those that want to kill me are nice folk come near me chanting Jews Will Not Replace Us watch me defend my position Fuck you NEVERAGAIN
There are an estimated 20,000 neo -nazis and white supremacists in the US. They are despicable.
About 80 million people voted for Trump. About 79,980,000 of them are therefore not neo-nazis, including me. According to you, none of us should have a voice, but should defer to your orthodoxy. I say again, that's exactly how the Nazi party started, by demonizing those who disagreed with them.
I never said everyone who voted for Trump was a Nazi, your problem is your willingness to defend them, I have demonized no one, I told you in no uncertain terms if you can't denounce them you are one of them.
You are the one picking a fight, but if that's what you want I will never back down, Learn to listen to what is said BTW The SPLC and the Justice Department estimated that there are about 260,000 people in such hate groups they did include some Muslim groups as well as the JDL.
You need to comprehend better what you are reading, you are not hearing what I have said here it is again If you can't denounce these people, immediately, and in no uncertain terms, you are one of them, there is no equivocating, no parsing sentences, and most of all there is no moral equivalency!
Is there anything to debate I fucking don't think so !!
Did you notice that I called these people despicable ?
Does that mean I am allowed to voice my opinion ?
Or, are you also a mind reader who can divine truth tellers ?
Have to agree with the folks I normally don't here. Even Nazis have the to free speech and to protest. If you are against that you're not anti-Fascist, you are just a Fascist who happens to be on the left.
@Dougster If you are referring to me I never said that they didn't have the right to speak, I merely said that if you defend them, than you are them. If you yell fire in a crowded theater and get arrested for that are the cops fascist or are you trying to incite panic and hysteria, if you shout out loud anti-Semitic or otherwise bigoted slogans on a city street where the majority will get upset over it are you not inciting a riot, sorry STFU in this case is not Fascist, it is an example that free speech is not always permitted.
@mark94 voice your opinion, but it sure took you a bunch to get to despicable.
Twentyfive: So, everyone who voted for Trump is assumed to be neo-nazi, and therefore prevented from sharing their opinion, until they prove to your satisfaction that they aren't a bigot. Do I need to do this individually with every other person who hates Trump ? Is it okay for them to threaten me until I do ? Just trying to get the rules straight under your authority.
I hate all protesters, regardless of their cause. I think it's so obnoxious to force people who are just tying to go about their lives, to listen to their crap. It does bother me to see signs and hear ppl shouting all mad, and it makes me resentful. Especially, since there's you tube, and Facebook, and twitter, and all sorts of ways to get your message out there.
^^^That's just silly you know that as well as anyone, I hope.
It's called sarcasm. But, it makes a point about " if you shout out.....bigoted slogans....where the majority will get upset....STFU...is not fascist...it is an example that free speech is not always permitted".
There is nothing in the first amendment about not saying things that upset people. Even so, that has become the speech code on campus and other places being enforced by, yes, fascists.
No. I really hate all protesting. I find it so obnoxious. That's my personal view on it. I know it can't be outlawed for principle sake, since it's a freedom of speech issue at the most grass roots form, but it's no longer needed as a means of making your message known, as it was in the past. I personally just plain hate it. I hate those ppl who walk up to me and try to get me to donate to shit in parking lots too. And beggars. And ppl who stand outside of grocery stores and ask me to buy stuff. All very irritating and they do infringe on my precieved right to go about without having to deal w then. And fat ppl scooters in grocery stores. I get if you are disabled, but omg.
I equally hate racist protesters, naked anti war protesters, BLM protesters, anti abortion protesters, raise the money wage protesters, and kids trying to sell car washes (they kinda look like protesters, except they are 12 year olds in bikinis standing next to their fat moms).
So you are ok with the Kkk holding a cross burning in front of Ebenezer Baptist or the Nazis doing a rally at a Synogogue in NYC. Hell, man that's not free speech that is an incitement to riot. Some speech is not protected absolutely and you know it, you are just playing devils advocate and that's how I see it.
The problem with prohibiting certain kinds of speech is that, eventually, the people defining what is acceptable will be not-so-nice. Soviet Union, Cuba, Nazi Germany.
The first step was always to have a group of like minded people enforcing their views on the streets. These people were often the first victims once the limits on speech became law.
Life is messy and at times upsetting. I find that meditation helps. I also find that nothing pisses off angry people more than being nice to them. The next time someone cuts you off in traffic, wave and smile at them. It drives them nuts.
Yes, tolerating cross burning, or flag burning, is the cost for having an open and free democracy. Once you put limits on speech, and give someone the power to enforce those limits, you no longer have a functioning democracy.
For example, would you want the President, including Trump, to have the power to define and enforce what was acceptable free speech ? Neither would I.
Well some of those activities themselves are not allowed, but cross burning and such isn't necessary for expressing your message. Same w flag burning, and showing pics of aborted fetus, while on the side of the road. No reason why public protests (where ppl are confronted against their will) can't be kept of rated. The right to move your fist ends where the other man's nose begins. That's why protesters who cross the line get arrested.
So you are saying if those fucks try to protest in front of my synagogue that's just messy, man you have no clue. There is no moral equivalence available to those hatemongers there should be no safe haven for the persecution of others there is no place for them in this society, if they get in my face I will take action. You must be too young to remember the aftermath of WWII we used violence and we were in the right, apologists just don't remember Cambodia,Rwanda,or all of the other atrocities since, I say fuck that, free speech has limits like it or not, otherwise we are finished as a society.
Your argument interweaves the murder of millions in Cambodia with non violent ( but vile ) protests. If someone " gets in your face" you will take action. I'm not even sure what that means. If someone says something anti-Semitic, you'll punch them ?
Yes, my memory of history is just fine. I had ancestors die in camps both in Nazi Germany and Japanese occupied Indonesia. I've read and reflected on those times quite a bit. That may be why I'm so opposed to intolerance and can sniff out fascism no matter where on the political spectrum it is.
Tolerating the expression of other people's opinions, no matter how vile, is simply necessary in a democracy. If we stop being tolerant, we enter a period of chaos and anger. We may be there now.
25, I'm just curious. Are you a practicing Jew, or born into it?
Many of these protesters don't practice what they're preaching. They're their to cause trouble. We are living in the best times in history, and we have it so good that the protesters have way too much time on their hands, and they create imaginary enemies for something to do. Idle hands.
Not that it matters I was born a Jew circumcised a few days later, my beliefs tend more towards the agnostic.
I agree with the second part of your statement about protesters having too much time and not living their words, having said that I have been subjected to bigotry by people over the course of my life, most didn't realize how offensive their actions were, some couldn't have known my ancestry.
We are living in the greatest period of history ever and it should only get better I'm convinced.
But one thing gives me pause I equate all hate groups including Radical Islamists, KKK members and sympatheisers ,Nazi types and their ilk with the same moral indignation and refuse to tolerate them
You are very aware that there is no room for some speech and as a person who makes his living in the public eye I'm sure you self censor for fair reasons.
I believe in your right to swing your arms ends somewhere before the tip of my nose and vice versa.
No one wants to be bullied with a "you are with me, or against me" ultimatum. When any side does this, it weakens their cause, even if it is righteous, bc it makes individuals feel resentment at being being pushed. The resentment is towards whoever is forcing them, and can overpower their neautality or uncertainty, and can push them to a side they don't even agree with, just out of their own personal protest at being forced. The fanatics feed on this and count on it. The best way to make your point and to help people to see things from your side is to live it and be someone who accepts ppl without forcing them to commit to your side. When I say "you", I mean in the conversational third party sense.
I think it's already been said, but my opinion is: the left-wing protesters are bad and the racist right-wing protesters are worse. There really probably were no 'good' people at the rally, at all. Anyone standing with Nazis and klansmen is a bad person. I don't care if you think you're there to protest clubbing baby seals to death - you're still a bad person. AND anyone who stands with people who throw bottles of urine and punch people without provocation is a bad person, too. Including Heather Heyer. Sorry, that's how I feel. They all had a right to be there, but they didn't have a right to hurt people. And they damn sure didn't have the right to kill anyone... not even the 'bad' people. I honestly think I hate them all. I agree with Bj99, I can't stand protesters and I just wish they would all stay home. But I'm a free-speech purist, and they do have an absolute right to protest. NOT a right to get violent, but a right to protest and say whatever they want.
No one has a right to burn a cross on anyone's property... burn a cross on your own fucking property. And for the record, I lost family members in the holocaust too, long before I was born. People I'll never get to meet. And it doesn't make a bit of difference to me. Freedom means freedom for everyone, even and especially for total assholes. Otherwise what's the point of America?
Having said that, neither side is exactly "fascist," but one side is "more fascist" than the other. Fascism has a specific definition. It doesn't just mean racism, and it definitely doesn't mean throwing a tantrum to get your way. We covered the definition of fascism in a thread yesterday. No need to rehash.
Quotes aren't only used to quote someone else directly. They can also be used in place of using the words 'so-called.' How douchy would it be to constantly be using the phrase 'so-called,' all the time instead?
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JS
Hard war to fight without philosophical changes in camelland. Let Affy girls get naked on stage.
It was a decent speech, but blatant in its intent to change the narrative.
Nobody knew Afghanistan could be so complicated...
Afghanistan: We will stay there and kill terrorists but no more nation building. That's up to you, along with getting rid of corruption. If you don't get your act together, you'll be on your own. Time to step up.
Pakistan: Remember those Billions we've given you ? That ends today. We expect you to put an end to harboring terrorists that kill Americans. If you don't, we'll use our diplomatic, economic, and intelligence assets to make life hell for you. Meanwhile, we've given our military the green light to pursue terrorists into your country and kill them.
India: You know what the Pakistanis fear most ? Friendly relations between India and Afghanistan, essentially surrounding their country. Feel free to start down that path. The door is open.
I don't know whether this will work, but it's never been tried before.
Lol@the silver spoon fuckers who get daddy to write them a doctors' note so they can get out of military service.
;)
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Like the opinion of a birther like @SkiBirther carries any weight in a discussion about race relations.
Sorry nobody gets a pass on this one, this is one, where if you aren't against The Klan, Storm Front, Neo-Nazis, and the rest of those hate groups, than you are one of them!
Has no one read about the beginnings of the Nazi party in the 1930s with Brown Shirts violently shutting down opposing views ?
The so-called anti-fa is acting exactly like the nazis did. In their minds, anyone who disagrees with their orthodoxy must be crushed.
Hey, that's a lot easier than crafting a logical response or defending your position.
About 80 million people voted for Trump. About 79,980,000 of them are therefore not neo-nazis, including me. According to you, none of us should have a voice, but should defer to your orthodoxy. I say again, that's exactly how the Nazi party started, by demonizing those who disagreed with them.
Look in the mirror.
You are the one picking a fight, but if that's what you want I will never back down, Learn to listen to what is said BTW The SPLC and the Justice Department estimated that there are about 260,000 people in such hate groups they did include some Muslim groups as well as the JDL.
You need to comprehend better what you are reading, you are not hearing what I have said here it is again If you can't denounce these people, immediately, and in no uncertain terms, you are one of them, there is no equivocating, no parsing sentences, and most of all there is no moral equivalency!
Is there anything to debate I fucking don't think so !!
Does that mean I am allowed to voice my opinion ?
Or, are you also a mind reader who can divine truth tellers ?
@mark94 voice your opinion, but it sure took you a bunch to get to despicable.
^^^That's just silly you know that as well as anyone, I hope.
It's called sarcasm. But, it makes a point about " if you shout out.....bigoted slogans....where the majority will get upset....STFU...is not fascist...it is an example that free speech is not always permitted".
There is nothing in the first amendment about not saying things that upset people. Even so, that has become the speech code on campus and other places being enforced by, yes, fascists.
The first step was always to have a group of like minded people enforcing their views on the streets. These people were often the first victims once the limits on speech became law.
Life is messy and at times upsetting. I find that meditation helps. I also find that nothing pisses off angry people more than being nice to them. The next time someone cuts you off in traffic, wave and smile at them. It drives them nuts.
For example, would you want the President, including Trump, to have the power to define and enforce what was acceptable free speech ? Neither would I.
Yes, my memory of history is just fine. I had ancestors die in camps both in Nazi Germany and Japanese occupied Indonesia. I've read and reflected on those times quite a bit. That may be why I'm so opposed to intolerance and can sniff out fascism no matter where on the political spectrum it is.
Tolerating the expression of other people's opinions, no matter how vile, is simply necessary in a democracy. If we stop being tolerant, we enter a period of chaos and anger. We may be there now.
Many of these protesters don't practice what they're preaching. They're their to cause trouble. We are living in the best times in history, and we have it so good that the protesters have way too much time on their hands, and they create imaginary enemies for something to do. Idle hands.
I agree with the second part of your statement about protesters having too much time and not living their words, having said that I have been subjected to bigotry by people over the course of my life, most didn't realize how offensive their actions were, some couldn't have known my ancestry.
We are living in the greatest period of history ever and it should only get better I'm convinced.
But one thing gives me pause I equate all hate groups including Radical Islamists, KKK members and sympatheisers ,Nazi types and their ilk with the same moral indignation and refuse to tolerate them
You are very aware that there is no room for some speech and as a person who makes his living in the public eye I'm sure you self censor for fair reasons.
I believe in your right to swing your arms ends somewhere before the tip of my nose and vice versa.
Whooooo are you? Who? Who?
Who? Who?
I really want to know.
No one has a right to burn a cross on anyone's property... burn a cross on your own fucking property. And for the record, I lost family members in the holocaust too, long before I was born. People I'll never get to meet. And it doesn't make a bit of difference to me. Freedom means freedom for everyone, even and especially for total assholes. Otherwise what's the point of America?
Having said that, neither side is exactly "fascist," but one side is "more fascist" than the other. Fascism has a specific definition. It doesn't just mean racism, and it definitely doesn't mean throwing a tantrum to get your way. We covered the definition of fascism in a thread yesterday. No need to rehash.