SJG I have no idea what that has to do with crazyjoes post.
Thanks for the post crazy, good article and I had no idea that's happening.
Things will be interesting down the road, China had a lot more mouths to feed than us which certainly complicates things when it comes to running a well oiled machine.
I the real X-factor for bring some of the semiconductor jobs back to the US from China will be the Rare Earth mines. If we can get the US rare earth mines back online ... it could be a game changer!
I spent 28 days in China in October, and what impressed me the most is how fast they are modernizing. I would not be surprised if Chinese companies begin manufacturing in the US.
Interesting, in High Country News I was recently reading about those rare earth mines. There is one in the Mojave Desert, Mountain Pass California. But it is going broke. The prices for that stuff are just too low. So the article was saying that we don't need to worry about that. The stuff will stay in the ground for as long as needed. Meanwhile, China supplies whatever anyone needs.
Now as far as semiconductors, that started pulling out of Silicon Valley in the late 80's. There was already a move to get manufacturing out, by the early 80's, because of the astronomical housing costs. The then the move was to go further because of electricity shortages. And then the movers and shakers were scared of unions.
So there is still semiconductor in Silicon Valley, but it is not that much. It is instead in Arizona ( very anti-union ), Oregon, Texas, Idaho, New Mexico, and lots of other places.
Now by the early 90's there were some billion dollar fabs going up in Asia. These outclassed anything in the US at that time.
And so the venture capitalists would not fund any new semiconductor fabs, only these fabless startups.
Now in the years since, comparable fabs have been built in the US, and without help from the VC's. But these are not in California.
And then Mexicali has a high tech park. People were saying that it has not been used. I suspect that it is being used now. Right on the border too. Looks good to me.
SJG --> "The stuff will stay in the ground for as long as needed. Meanwhile, China supplies whatever anyone needs."
That's not the whole story. China keeps the mining prices low. True. And our stuff (and Russia's) is still in the ground and not going anywhere, also true. But China will not (To my understanding) just supply anyone's needs. They have export restrictions (regulations) on how much raw material they will export. The rationale is they will sell you the material if and only if you also place the factory in china, employing workers, and so China gets a cut.
That's why it's there. State Regulation from China. And overall costs.
Also true that the costs in California for us to do this stuff was too high. But that's why we need to do it in Dayton, Ohio, and not California or China. Glad to see the tide shifting back. Far too many workers in the rustbelt in the midwest need good jobs. These were the swing voters for Mr. Trump.
I have never heard of that restriction coming from China. The High Country article did not talk about that. I'm not aware of anyone making concessions to China. They talk about technology critical elements. It is rare earths, but there are some other things too, especially for batteries and for thermal conductivity.
I was not aware of any such mine in Dayton Ohio. But if China is keeping the costs low and not causing other problems by demanding concessions, then I suspect the Dayton load will just stay in the ground. To create jobs in Dayton, it is not necessary that we do mining.
California is pro union, Arizona and Texas are definitely not, No Closed Shop laws. ( Right to Work ). Stupid really. Should be found to be in defiance of federal law.
California also has some decent environmental protections.
Real estate in California has become insanely expensive, though not necessarily as expensive as some places in Asia. Some of this is just the weather and the sea coast, not driven by high wage employment. Driven by the tastes of the independently wealthy.
Remember it was during the mid 80's that the US lost out in the 16k DRAM market, and then had very little to show in the 64k contest, and then nothing beyond that.
Now Micron / Gateway, out of Idaho, stepped in and reclaimed a share.
The local semiconductor industry was drying up, just before the dot com boom. But the dot com boom was mostly just a Ponzi scheme. And now today there are jobs, some very high wage, with Google and stuff like that. But this is not really technology. It is consumer media. Just like television in the 1960's, sure it required technical competence. But despite what people say, it is not technology driven. It is consumer marketing and social conformity driven.
Well some semiconductor work still goes on, Intel, Siliconix, and then National Semi was bought by Texas Instruments. Both are still going. I believe Intel has a huge facility in Rio Rancho ( right next to Albuquerque ), and also in Gilbert and Chandler AZ.
People say that Elon Musk represents a new wave of the more visionary entrepreneurs, people who did things which were more complex and involved.
And then in the organization I am building, we will be doing things both large and small and none of it driven by consumer marketing. Heavy operations in Mexico, but lots of stuff in the US, some in Canada, and some even in Europe. But no exploited labor, our people are really our people, somewhat like an Israeli Kibbutz. We will be short circuiting neo-Liberal Capitalism.
I think the people who went for Trump were just so jaded that they are unable to see any collectivist vision. They would rather solve problems by passing out knives and guns, instead of sending kids to college or using a 2% tax on high incomes to create good jobs.
When you get out of some high cost of living California metros, I don't know that costs of doing things, like at that Mountain Pass mine, are greater than other places. But we don't need to use things like that just to create jobs. Let the stuff stay in the ground until needed.
10 comments
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKzNBXFn…
SJG
Thanks for the post crazy, good article and I had no idea that's happening.
Things will be interesting down the road, China had a lot more mouths to feed than us which certainly complicates things when it comes to running a well oiled machine.
MAKE AMERICA GRATE AGAIN
Now as far as semiconductors, that started pulling out of Silicon Valley in the late 80's. There was already a move to get manufacturing out, by the early 80's, because of the astronomical housing costs. The then the move was to go further because of electricity shortages. And then the movers and shakers were scared of unions.
So there is still semiconductor in Silicon Valley, but it is not that much. It is instead in Arizona ( very anti-union ), Oregon, Texas, Idaho, New Mexico, and lots of other places.
Now by the early 90's there were some billion dollar fabs going up in Asia. These outclassed anything in the US at that time.
And so the venture capitalists would not fund any new semiconductor fabs, only these fabless startups.
Now in the years since, comparable fabs have been built in the US, and without help from the VC's. But these are not in California.
And then Mexicali has a high tech park. People were saying that it has not been used. I suspect that it is being used now. Right on the border too. Looks good to me.
SJG
Andy Stern: There Is a Way to Stop Machines From Making Americans Poorer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLHKlkyj…
The diety Set and typhonian magic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Wo9Gp62…
Israel Regardie, Tree of Life
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ub4NU8r…
That's not the whole story. China keeps the mining prices low. True. And our stuff (and Russia's) is still in the ground and not going anywhere, also true. But China will not (To my understanding) just supply anyone's needs. They have export restrictions (regulations) on how much raw material they will export. The rationale is they will sell you the material if and only if you also place the factory in china, employing workers, and so China gets a cut.
That's why it's there. State Regulation from China. And overall costs.
Also true that the costs in California for us to do this stuff was too high. But that's why we need to do it in Dayton, Ohio, and not California or China. Glad to see the tide shifting back. Far too many workers in the rustbelt in the midwest need good jobs. These were the swing voters for Mr. Trump.
I was not aware of any such mine in Dayton Ohio. But if China is keeping the costs low and not causing other problems by demanding concessions, then I suspect the Dayton load will just stay in the ground. To create jobs in Dayton, it is not necessary that we do mining.
California is pro union, Arizona and Texas are definitely not, No Closed Shop laws. ( Right to Work ). Stupid really. Should be found to be in defiance of federal law.
California also has some decent environmental protections.
Real estate in California has become insanely expensive, though not necessarily as expensive as some places in Asia. Some of this is just the weather and the sea coast, not driven by high wage employment. Driven by the tastes of the independently wealthy.
Remember it was during the mid 80's that the US lost out in the 16k DRAM market, and then had very little to show in the 64k contest, and then nothing beyond that.
Now Micron / Gateway, out of Idaho, stepped in and reclaimed a share.
The local semiconductor industry was drying up, just before the dot com boom. But the dot com boom was mostly just a Ponzi scheme. And now today there are jobs, some very high wage, with Google and stuff like that. But this is not really technology. It is consumer media. Just like television in the 1960's, sure it required technical competence. But despite what people say, it is not technology driven. It is consumer marketing and social conformity driven.
Well some semiconductor work still goes on, Intel, Siliconix, and then National Semi was bought by Texas Instruments. Both are still going. I believe Intel has a huge facility in Rio Rancho ( right next to Albuquerque ), and also in Gilbert and Chandler AZ.
People say that Elon Musk represents a new wave of the more visionary entrepreneurs, people who did things which were more complex and involved.
And then in the organization I am building, we will be doing things both large and small and none of it driven by consumer marketing. Heavy operations in Mexico, but lots of stuff in the US, some in Canada, and some even in Europe. But no exploited labor, our people are really our people, somewhat like an Israeli Kibbutz. We will be short circuiting neo-Liberal Capitalism.
I think the people who went for Trump were just so jaded that they are unable to see any collectivist vision. They would rather solve problems by passing out knives and guns, instead of sending kids to college or using a 2% tax on high incomes to create good jobs.
When you get out of some high cost of living California metros, I don't know that costs of doing things, like at that Mountain Pass mine, are greater than other places. But we don't need to use things like that just to create jobs. Let the stuff stay in the ground until needed.
Use zoom outs and changing back to maps to see where this is:
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.4791033,…
:)
SJG
The secret chord that makes Christmas music sound so Christmassy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm4LO22-…
The Best of Dizzy Gillespie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdvPuDxN…
Intelligent People Have Fewer Friends, Here's Why...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJr226id…
http://www.hcn.org/issues/47.11/why-rare…
Energy Critical Elements, not just Rare Earths
http://www.aps.org/units/fps/newsletters…
SJG
Democrats are in deep trouble — even if Hillary Clinton wins
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15WhOT_l…
Donald Trump's success reveals a frightening weakness in American democracy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLCUphAp…