Advice from the older members to the younger members of TUSCL

Buy a gold mine. Or uranium. So what if you glow in the dark. :)

Apply your own abilities and put your money and your energies into what you and your own associates can do. Never listen to people trying to get your money into things you have no direct involvement with, like the firms traded on the stock market.

SJG

"One word: Plastics"

Read Trump's book

Buy silver.

Buy a strip club. Become a wealthy douchebag.

So basically sell drugs

Not my quote - but words to club by -

You must have realistic expectations when you step into the unrealistic world of a strip club.

1. Attend Trump University

2. Start hanging out with rich people and make them pay for everything.

Buy what warren buffet buys, never sell unless he does and wait 40 years until you're nearing retirement and start shifting a greater percentage of your assets into safer fixed investments like bonds. If that's too much trouble find a lifetime fund that automatically does all that as you get close to retirement and automatically save as much as you can every year into the fund. No extra work involved.

Become an Action Bronson cover act. I know you can do it

Good one Motorhead that's from Mr. Robinson to Benjamin Braddock I bet the young guys don't get that one (Plastics)

If you're able to, max out savings in a Roth Ira as well and save extra amounts in a taxable account. Most Amercans don't save a lot though. If you save enough, then when they cut social security benefits, you will have extra sources of income. Count on social security benefits getting cut at least 30% from current levels or working until you are very old if you can. With the US owing 90 to 100 trillion in debt and future liabilities, there is no way our government will pay 100% of future benefits promised right now, IMO.

All sage advice from sharkhunter. The only thing I would add is, take advantage of your 401k, if one is available to you. This is especially true if your company does any match to your contributions. Also, if you can stay in good health (exercise, cut back on the chacken fingers), it will reap huge rewards in the future, by saving you a lot of money on medical bills.

Thank you shark that's very helpful and what I'm looking for

Oh, and plastics. Yes, plastics. Good one motorhead.

Sage advice is true on this thread. To reiterate a combo from Buffet and others, the average American who knows nothing about investing should participate enough in his/her 401k to capture the company's matching. After getting the match max out your ROTH IRA contribution up to $5,500 annually. After maxing out ROTH then go back to your employer 401k and contribute as much pre-tax. Again if you know nothing about investing use an S&P 500 index fund and only shift funds to something more fixed like cash for withdrawals that you'll need to cover 5 years.

Market fluctuations always are a natural occurrence and they always return to previous highs and go higher so anytime the market goes down consider it as a gift for u to buy in cheaper.

The previous info I listed is a priority placement and basics for someone who knows nothing about investing and/or planning and needs to be assured of doing the right thing. Trust me I have years of experience and the financial education/designations to back what I am stating.

"Start hanging out with rich people and make them pay for everything."

You might want to try this. It works for the DS.

If you get an S&P 500 fund, make sure to get an ETF with low fees. Also investment property is a good way to diversify.

Marry a rich widow or divorcee.

If that's not possible... Hit the lottery.

Juice, I have several bridges that you'd want to buy. :)

I think I need to "stop working for the man" and instead strike out on my own with my own business. My expenses are pretty low but I tried of working for modest wages. That and I need to realize I'm probably spending my future retirement wealth, today, on monthly strip club visits.

Still visit the clubs, but analyze what you're getting in return and spend accordingly^^^^. The last 2 years for me have been spent confirming why I don't return visit much based on stripper shit and hard sales pitches. I can go home and get a bj, hj, of reverse cow girl sex. I can even go to the gym and flirt with real civilian hotties with vanilla jobs and a steady lifestyle, complete with stimulating and intellectual conversation.

First rule:
Avoid credit and debt. Live below your means.
Many young people fall head long into the:
"I deserve to have this now" trap and build up to much debt so they can never get ahead. That is what the big banks, government and the crony businesses want. That makes you their slave.
Go to community college, drive a cheaper car, have an older cell phone, don't buy every app there is, etc.
Life ain't TV
"Friends" Those dweebs could have never afforded those apartments in Manhattan on what they make in their menial jobs.

Good practical advice Tiredtraveler.

Index funds.

As a divorce lawyer I have noticed that those with the most money invest at a young age, invest weekly and make sure they pay themselves before spending money on entertainment. The single best way to save money is buy in advance; for example: I have all new golf clothes; shoes; summer attire etc. for my trip an 2 weeks. If I bought it all today it would be about 5-600. I bought everything last labor day, 225. Stock up on sale items, never buy a car you cannot afford to buy for cash, or no more than 2 year loan. When t he dealer said to me the car (Wrx) is 31,800 how much do you want to finance? I said I want to pay 29,000 cash and I did.

My sincere advice: stay away from strip clubs until you have a comfortable nest egg and investment income.

Probably not what you wanted to hear, OP.

Thank u shark

Work has value and dignity, but gambling and trying to get rich does not. So once you submit to such, you give up your basic dignity.

SJG

Bernstein on Schoenberg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olwVvbWd…

part II
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n6p7_0g…

^^^ SJG, who is Bernstein on Schoenberg and what reference does it play into?

Lol

If I have to choose Bernstein over Schoenberg. I have to be in the mood for Schoenberg, but I do like his music. Very modern. Bernstein has many facets including being a conductor, which edges him out, IMO.

SJG, putting in a lot of time researching companies to identify good investment opportunities is work Not sure how that type of work causes one to lose their basic dignity.

"Not sure how that type of work causes one to lose their basic dignity. "

Because what it comes down to is putting one's time, energy, and money into things they have very little direct involvement in or control over. Its like saying that ordinary life is not worth living unless you can get rich. And it amounts to saying that one's own abilities could for nothing.

So the alternative is to put your time, money, and energy into things that you can do yourself, and with a team of close associates.

SJG

Man With The Golden Arm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_37-0Sc…

Not everyone is trying to get rich. Some people are just trying to make enough to support themselves. If one's knowledge and abilities happen to be in financial markets and they are helping themselves, others, and charities through their efforts, it seems pretty dignified to me. Not talking about greedy Wall Street types ripping off the average Joe. Anyway, thanks for the response. I know you have unique opinions and feel strongly about them, so we'll just have to disagree on this.

We really need Dougster here to talk about this. Even though he and I strongly disagree, at least we do understand each other.

Everyone has skills and abilities, but only some of us have been able to develop them. Unfortunately we have this popular delusion, popular gambling game, known as the financial markets. And so the work you or I might do, is devalued.

For many decades this was discredited and kept in the margins. Television news did not even report on the financial markets as they were seen as something akin to gambling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXNziew6…

But this changed completely with Reagan. And then there were the tax cuts. Used to be that the public sector was funded by taxation. Since it has also had to be funded by selling Treasury Bonds. The money which used to be collected in taxes is now used to finance a completely parasitical speculative sector of the economy. And this parasitical sector is able to suck the oxygen out of the legitimate and value producing sector.

http://www.amazon.com/America-Wrong-Dona…

So people actually believe that their gambling habits are a virtue instead of a vice. They gain social approval by talking about how smart they are, making their investments.

But in fact though they have very little knowledge about what they are investing in. The prices of the various issues are determined by the buying and selling of the people who manage pension and insurance funds. Amateur speculators can read all the analysis they want, but this has zero predictive power. All it does is explain why the current price is what it is. Stock prices are based on expectations, not on actual balance sheets, and these fund managers having control of so much money are the ones who control what the prices are. The analysis you can read is always after the fact.

A pretty poor trade of when you are giving up using your actual talents and abilities, in favor of just going along with a game.

http://www.amazon.com/Politics-Culture-C…

So people are led to believe that their own actual talents and abilities are of little worth. So they don't develop these talents and abilities. They invest in things they know little about, instead of investing in themselves.

SJG

Oh, I understand you. I even agree with some of what you are saying, but not all of it. What you say about stocks is mostly right. I also agree that there are a lot of people out there that don't know what they are investing in.

I don't think anybody is devaluing the work of others though. I also don't think people have lost their basic dignity, just because they work in the financial services sector. That's a pretty harsh judgment, but you are entitled to your opinion.

I read earlier that your ex-wife lost a lot of money daytrading, so I'm sure that's influenced your opinion. I can understand that it probably made you sick to see her losing all of that hard earned money gambling in the stock market.

Not everyone is an uninformed amateur though that loses money. Also, the financial markets comprise a lot more than just stocks. Other investments, like corporate bonds do have predictive power, because you receive set interest on your investment, plus get paid back in full when the loan is completed, as long as the company doesn't go bankrupt. If you buy these bonds at a discount, you can earn both interest and capital appreciation.

Anyway, I hope your old friend Dougster is doing okay. It seems he stopped posting around the time the markets started collapsing last fall. Anything can happen with the stock market, but I've been bracing for a major correction or crash for some time now, and have positioned myself accordingly.

I'm curious to read about your Utopian society, once it gets off the ground. Best of luck.

It's good to be lucky. It's better to be good. It's best to be good and lucky.

Be the best.

DaOnion, obviously you have read many posts. I am sick that my wife's mind got poisoned, that she accepted a fatalistic sort of thinking, believing that ordinary work was not valuable, and so one had to try and get rich. This did far more to make continuing relationships impossible with her than it would if say she just blew away mountains of money frivolously. It was the kind of outside people she was listening too which made further partnership with her impossible. It's not like she didn't care about money. That would have been an entirely different thing. It's that she started drinking the speculator's koolaid. But I always told her, that this is not where our troubles started, its just that this kind of stuff multiplied our troubles 1000x. I was able to get some of these people de-licensed by Calif State authorities, as well as investigated by the federal SEC. But they deserve far worse than that.

No, there is no predictive power about these markets. If someone had the ability to predict that this or that bond would be worth more in 6 months, then it would already be worth that today. None of us have any privileged knowledge. The public knowledge is what the large scale fund managers use, and they are the ones who control the prices, by their actions. So what data you have is always after the fact analysis. So it is always like watching the weather report on TV news, and then calling your bookie on the phone and asking what sort of odds he can give you for betting on whether the forecast was right or not.

It is a communal insanity, just like betting on football games is. Most of the gains are simply Ponzi gains.

What you can know about one of these public traded companies is miniscule, compared to what you know about the doings of a team you are actually a part of, and maybe even the leader of. Picking securities is nothing whatsoever like it is to work with a group of people who are committed to developing a product and running a business. And that someone would somehow think that picking securities is something like real or honest work, and not just a glorfied version of picking race horses, only shows that they do not have any clue about developing and applying their abilities to trying and do good things, things which have intrinsic value. This so called investing is simply a vice, trying to get a high, and trying to get social cachet by talking about it. It's just more of Carlo Ponzi.

And as far as discounts on bonds, again this is always already reflected in their pricing. No one is giving away money in these financial markets. They can't. That would be like rigging a roulette wheel. Any sort of built in advantage will already be accounted for and neutralized by current pricing.

I have no interest in any sort of utopia. But I am working with close associates in setting up a counter culture. Unlimited sex is a big part of this. And as always, once you can change the rules about sex, you have to pass out snow shovels, because the heavens open and manna comes down in all denominations until you are hip deep in it.

The precedents for this in the US are Oneida and LDS. Change the rules about sex, and you get inundated with money.

Money is spent in trying to measure up to conformist standards. And this includes spending money on investments and trying to gain social status from this. So once people can make high quality sex unlimited, then this sort of senseless squandering of assets vanishes.

I was concerned about Dougster. He is also rickthelion and rickthevulture. He has just lost interest in posting. He was becoming more and more topically narrow before he vanished. I hope he comes back and posts, but he is doing fine.

SJG

Over the long term, stocks can be a good bet. Heck, even over the short term you can sometimes make a killing.

You can pick up tips about doing fundamental analysis reading the motley fool and other sources. Buying stock in well managed companies with several factors going for them pays off over time. Then there is technical analysis and roughly 10% of traders who do that make money. That means 90% are not which is why it can seem like gambling to some in my opinion. I heard 90% do not make money but I really wonder if that is true. I can do the most basic technical analysis and beat the market average over time I believe. The simplest easiest way to make money in stocks is as I initially described in this thread. You need a long time horizon to ensure success.

The dividend growth model is an easy way to evaluate individual stocks, however since we are coming into a period of rising rates I would shy away from that approach. The best path going forward with uncertainty is a balanced approach. Diversification is the only way to go and keep a long term perspective, which is over 5 years or longer. Anything you need to use over the next 5 years should be in cash and this should always be the rule no matter what the market are doing.

Any one who is in the stock market with a company they do not work for and are not privy to the financials of and to the presentations made by the various work groups themselves is gambling. The analysis they have is always after the fact, an explanation why the price is what it is, with zero predictive power.

And lots of people who gamble can make killings. But so what.

For myself and the advice I would give to anyone is to do what I do, invest your time, energy, and money into things you and a team of close associates do together.

And as far as the problem with this bloated speculative sector, besides causing financial instabilities which hurt innocent people, the culture of speculators devalues legitimate value producing work.

I mean, if Elon Musk listened to those who try to make money by speculation, he would have ended up following them and accomplishing absolutely nothing.

DaOnion mentioned the subject of bonds early. Yes, bonds can be an extremely low risk way of saving money.

We need Dougster back, someone I completely disagree with, but at least who has the background to understand this from all different perspectives.

SJG

Tuning Schemes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2I1zNw2…

Any action or placement of your time and money, no matter where you place it involves risk. The fact that you SJG ^^^ above have stated people should invest their time and money into things that you and close associates do together presents the highest level of risk. Unsystematic risk such as owning a business can hardly be diversified because all of your eggs are in one basket being the entity you support. If one of the key persons of your group died then it jeopardizes the rest of the entity continuing as is. When competitors get bigger than your entity they can price you out if the market and force you to sell pennies on the dollar. If the industry your entity deals with has dramatic political and governmental authority pressing new reforms that make it difficult for you to continue business; ie Obamacare for small firms who don't have resources to pay the heavy insurance premiums, then your entity goes out of business wasting valuable years and funds trying to get your business off the ground.

Please state me one example how an entity you created has procured long term financial security that you can rely on to retire safely, can you? For me I have steadily invested over 20 years the same amount into booms and busts of the stock market and have accumulated over $600,000 in my retirement plans, in addition to a pension and social security when I'm of age to draw. All of this accumulated while being employed by corporate America and simply investing in the stock market through various e IRAs and employer sponsored plans. In another 10 years I will be making more retired than working and I will only be in my 50's with good health and possibly 4 decades to live. Another note, if I follow through and start up my own business in 10 years and it fails to succeed and liabilities and lawsuits come knocking on my door because of dealings with my business entity, 100% of my savings and retirement plans are protected from bankruptcy claims. SJG, How can you beat my proven strategy of low risk and wealth protection when your strategy clearly shows too much individual/business risk without diversifying your risks? You have failed the key suitability needs for any investor and your strategy has lack of risk management figured into it. I thought you stated you are smart, but you're too stupid to know any better.

"Any action or placement of your time and money, no matter where you place it involves risk. "

Yes, this is correct. But I am saying that the risk is lower if you only invest your time, energy, and talents together. It also makes for a no lose scenario because even if one business venture fails, there will still be a recovery scenario for it, and you will have gotten other things going with other people in your group.

And this is how you get diversity, as out of this same molecular team, you get other ventures going. You are never dealing with strangers, you are never far from the loops as to what is going on.

But if you operate by reading analysis, then it really is just glorified gambling. And you are devaluing real work by going that way. So its like you have already lost even when you are supposed to have won, because you have turned yourself into a living and walking dead.

My online persona needs to be kept separate from my real life matters. If this were not the case, I would not have been able to disclose as much as I already have.

If you want an example though to look at, Elon Musk, starting with only $2k, about enough to live on for 1 month. But did he submit to denigration telling him to "get a job you bum"? Hell no. And has he become a speculator, investing his money in anything other them himself and his own team? Hell no.

After just a few years he turned that $2k into $22Meg.

And then what did he buy? Financial security? Hell no, he is his own financial security.

1. McLaren F1
2. First Airplane
3. House in BelAire.

I can do without #3. But this guy is my kind of guy! And of course he has gone on to start additional larger companies, and he has more planned.

SJG

Piano Tuner Shows Classical Repertoire Performed in Historical Tunings
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBt6APk2…

Investing in the stock market, especially in a diversified mutual funds means you are investing into the efforts of millions of people who work for the businesses that support commerce. Based on you theory SJG ^^^ from above it seems apparent that you would be the first person to invest in the markets, because you are directly investing in the operations of commerce across the country as a whole, therefore you're not at the mercy of one business failing such as the way you mentioned people should invest in one sole entity. That is where you are lacking in risk management. You failed! How many Guys who wanted to be Elon Musk have failed? Millions and millions more will continue to fail. I'm all for entrepreneurship, but it isn't any easier than my plan for financial success. The odds are way in my favor of planning, and the odds are stacked against your method.

Example only 2-5% of venture capitalists make any money on their start up ventures. They do this in hopes tag the one entity that hits it big will create a big pay off. Only people with $$ millions can afford to be venture capitalists, and only 1 in 5 small businesses that start up will be around in 5 years. That's some pretty low odds you're taking SJG and clearly a path of most resistance.

"...investing into the efforts of millions of people who work for the businesses that support commerce. "

Correct, and this is exactly what the problem with such "investing' is. They are people you do not know, and you are not part of their work groups.

The following book is about Kleiner Perkins start ups, and why they have such a high failure rate, versus why mom and pop businesses which have an extremely low failure rate. Mostly what it comes down to is the VC's put in lots of money, too much, because they want big results fast. Where as the mom and pop places run on shoe strings and it is just about impossible to force them out of business.

http://www.amazon.com/Money-No-Object-Ve…

I have worked in the inner circle of KP startups and the book mentions people I know very well. Why their stuff fails is shown very well. It is a kind of collective hysteria which takes over people when there is reckless use of money.

Now an early KP start up is not a publicly traded issue. But I have equal experience with such, and they are often not any better.

Ever managed a work group, a department, people doing stuff which is extremely complex and depends on all sorts of stuff which you have little control over? This is what I have done my entire adult life. When you have that detailed a knowledge about what people are doing, the hidden risk is near zero. So today it is in these sorts of close relationships that I put my time, energy, and money. And there is no better place to put such, because even if on undertaking appears to have failed, there are still long term hidden benefits, and so really it is a can't lose way of operating.

This Jim Hansell has been a CFO for dozens and dozens of firms. I'm sure he would understand exactly what I am saying.

So I strongly recommend this book. And what I do is exactly what Hansell is endorsing by showing its opposite in his book. Read the book and see how crazy people get. And then consider how much you really know about the publicly traded issues. Hansell is showing that even KP sorts of VC's don't even know what is going on.

And them for myself, I have always been inside or heading up the work groups. Totally different situation.

And of course our own local dot com boom took this craziness even further.

Starting businesses with your own money and with people you know and have worked with is not that hard, not once you get the right team of people around you.

So if you want, you could say that I am in the process of becoming my own VC. But the types of firms I start, the way they run, and the people I do it with are the exact opposite of KP.

Part of my inspiration for this is the former KP Partner Vinod Khosla. He showed me that you don't have to do it the KP way, that you can find other ways.

And then also part of this formula is that there is a deep shared philosophy and commitment which unites the people together. But as for this I cannot yet disclose any more.

I have also learned huge amounts from this Bill Livingston and his critiques of corporate culture:
http://www.amazon.com/Have-Fun-at-Work-L…

Dougster we need you back!

SJG

MANDATORY VIEWING, thus spake SJG
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fbvquHS…

Ontario Canada, Universal Basic Income!!!!!

http://www.sciencealert.com/a-canadian-p…

I think a basic income guarantee is mandatory. Capitalism is what creates unemployment. And Cecil Williams and the people who run Guild Memorial United Methodist Church in San Francisco have got it right. Poverty is caused by social marginalization.

So a corollary is simply this, everyone wants to do well. They want to win the admiration of family and friends. So if they are not doing well, then there must be some social marginalization or disability at work here. But as the main problem is marginalization, then we should not talk about disability, as usually this just means more marginalization.

And of course it is absurd that people should be accepting psychiatric labels. These are just an extreme form of oppression.

So for there to be justice there has to be this basic income guarantee, or what amounts to cradle to grave welfare.

The typical person on welfare takes far less out of our economy than those employed do. And if the welfare recipient is not driving around much in a car, then they are treading far more lightly on the earth than those who senselessly burn up gas and dump CO2 into the atmosphere to do jobs which produce absolutely nothing which people need to live.

Now welfare takes money out of gov't coffers, but in the US welfare has never been more than 3% of federal expenditure. This is much less than corporate welfare and other expenses directed to the betterment of the middle class in order to maintain political allegiance, or to keeping the poor down. So welfare is a cheaper way to keep our society going than the present state of affairs.

And then as far as federal accounts, it is the federal gov't which controls the printing press, the furnace, and interest rates which multiply the availability of money by the inverse of the interest rate. Suffice to say, federal accounts and the money supply are all under gov't control, hence it is artificial. It is just a matter of who and what are being served by it.

So as those who are not doing well are simply the victims of social injustice, we must redress this social injustice.

1. Stop using psychiatric labels, learning disability labels, or morality labels.

2. Offer people value producing work, not nonsense just to get a paycheck.

3. Provide this cradle to grave welfare system as efficiently as possible, and understand that everyone wants to be a useful and meaningful part of our society.

4. Follow my recommendation and hold parents accountable for exploiting their children, using them to give themselves a adult identity. This amounts to psychological child abuse. So besides criminal prosecution where practical, also prevent disinheritance and offer something like a divorce from one's parents when their is parent v child animosity. Make the parents pay, and pay dearly. Make it so that child exploitation no longer pays.

5. And for those who insist on calling the poor lazy or immoral, know that this is how Capitalism works. It is the family where this starts, with the designation of a child as the blacksheep. Those who denigrate the poor are just doing what their parents did to them. So the poor and marginalized need to start standing up for themselves rather than submitting. They and all of us must start engaging in public advocacy and non-violent civil disobedience.

6. And then since the New Economy and Libertarianism are really just the old Social Darwinism and Eugenics Movement, saying that the poor are not fit to compete, we all need to be prepared to do more than just be non-violent. We don't want to be like Anne Frank's father, hiding in an attic waiting for the Gestapo. We need to be ready to engage in guerrilla warfare, the use of lethal force, and without taking prisoners. Unless we are willing to do this, then we are helping the eugenicists who say that we are not fit to live. Gandhi and Jesus lived in violent revolutionary times. They were only able to accomplish their works because others were maintaining the constant threat of lethal violence on a large scale.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerrilla_…

SJG