Can't find the perfect OTC girl

Perfection doesn't really exist in life.

Last 2 or 3 girls absolutely didn't kiss, the two before that did -- in fact, one of the ones that kissed did full-on makeout sessions, all tongue and moaning, but she and I knew each other for years and I'm not sure everyone got that treatment (i certainly didn't, for at least the first year or two). Generally speaking, I'm not interested in kissing girls I don't know super well, but since a girl is at least a CF if not downright ATF before I ever invite her to OTC, that condition is usually already met. There is definitely something to kissing a 24-year-old that makes your heart thump

I think that's why most guys want to rotate girls. You also just have to take them as they are. But kissing, aggressively, is very important.

SJG
sites.google.com/site/sjgportal/

Dizzy Gillespie
www.youtube.com/watch?v=be2QGrdD2Ow

OTC girls all make out with me. Maybe it's because I'm so lovable.

Dancers not wanting/liking to kiss seems like the norm – perhaps after building a rapport w/ them over some length of time some may warm up to it.

Perhaps there may also be a correlation to how much one spends – if one is paying $500/OTC; the dancer may feel more obligated to go the extra-mile and not want to lose a nice meal-ticket – what else can explain jackslash's success

:)

This subject has been talked about at length. But I think it depends upon how you approach them and the overall choreography, as well as just on how aggressive they need to be. Like for one thing, are you making it happen with them in the front room before committing to the back room, or are you letting them sell you dances? The second way stinks.

Dr. F.'s Girl By Girl Account
https://www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=2…

I think we should be working to make Hong Kong Bar quality the US norm.

SJG
https://sites.google.com/site/sjgportal/

Dizzy Gillespie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=be2QGrdD…

And of course the worst would be a Deja Vu clip joint, where they pretty much force you to go with the "wanna dance" routine.

SJG

So instead of patronizing Deja Vu clip joints, and instead of going for the "wanna dance" routine, we should be encouraging and rewarding physically aggressive dancers. We should not give them a hard time. We should show that we appreciate them, as that opens the door to free form fraternizing and making it happen in the front room.

https://www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=3…

I for one am not interested in 'extras' or 'mileage'. I am not interested in extras-FS.

I only want escort grade GFE-FS. So we should be making clubs where it goes more like the TJ Hong Kong Bar, and that starts with how we treat the dancers.

SJG

What's this front room shit you keep talking, sjg?

he's like a retarded broken record

Yea I couldn't follow that either SJG...LoL!

Each girl and each situation is a little different, but here's my experience.

With more veteran dancers (in the business for at least 5-10 years with significant OTC experience) -- I think kissing and a full GFE are often a given. These girls know what it takes to keep and please a man, and that means a GFE. Also, they have also been around long enough to give up,on their former limits. This describes my former ATT and a couple of others.

With my DS I got her to kiss me the first time by coming up for a kiss in the middle of performing oral sex on her. She kissed me as deeply and passionately as she possibly could in response. She will kiss me any time I ask, but she does it enthusiastically and genuinely when I have her very horny. So do what a dancer likes to get her hot and then just go up and assume you get to kiss her.

This just happened tonight. I'm fucking a dancer OTC who has told me that she won't kiss. In the middle of our passion, when she's really into it, I kiss her. I do this while she's moaning about her upcoming orgasm. It's the most natural thing in the world. She responds by sticking her tongue in my mouth and kissing back. It's natural to kiss when you are giving a woman an orgasm. Try it, they might be ok with it if you get them horny first.

With other girls, I have decided to insist upon a GFE and kissing in initial negotiations. This is a judgment call but I do this when I don't think I'll get what I want any other way. Decide beforehand whether or not this is a deal breaker for you, and the do your best to negotiate it. I don't like doing this but it is sometimes necessary.

You can also get a GFE by delaying your request. In Other words, you can insist upon kissing after a couple of dates-- tell her no more $ unless you can kiss. Sometimes they will agree if they've grown more comfortable with you and they need your money.

The front room is where you make your initial negotiations. I don't mean verbally, I mean person to person. The front room is how you break out of the artificial structure being imposed on the situation. You can still be handing her money, as seems right and as she seems to want it. It should be better because there is no house cut. Front room is where you get to know her and get comfortable with each other. It is how you turn it from 'extras', into something more like a first date. The front room is how you civilianize the encounter, make it like she is a girl you just met at a party.

In the booths an back rooms she is performing a service upon you, 'extras'. It stinks.

Much better just to engage with her freely in the front room, where you can be the one to lead it.

Save the back rooms for when really necessary.

Here, read Dr. F.'s girl by girl narrative:
https://www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=2…

Here in the Sunnyvale clubs, they aren't supposed to do anything like that. But sometimes when some of them want to set up OTC, they do.

Likewise, old style SF lap dancing was front room only, sometimes very GFE.

On black strip clubs .net there were lots of accounts on how it was done. The girls would help themselves into your lap and then start licking you neck and nibbling on your ear. They are daring you to start making out with them.

How well it goes of course, mostly depends on how you do it. But a strip club is an excellent place to learn.

Lots of TUSCL members have testified that in the Mixed Race clubs, the girls all do it exactly that same way.

This is infinitely better than the "wanna dance" clubs, as those are clip joints.

Glad JS69 is coming around, and also reaping the benefits. But best not to get into head butting contests with girls. If they want to kiss, they will. Best just to make it happen from the start. If they won't play, find another.

Mr. IME, may the only girls you meet be ugly neurotic ones who no one would ever want to kiss.

SJG
https://sites.google.com/site/sjgportal/

SJG you're a faggot, too bad you will never leave your basement and see real women like basically everybody except you on this board does. You are a nothing, a spineless, shell of a man whose ex-wife left him because he was a cuckold, you and organizations will never do anything you will live in your mind and google earth because you are a nothing.

gotcha.

still dont think that would make all strippers more comfortable but w/e.

I don't know if all strippers are going to want to do it that way, not if they are used to the "wanna dance" approach.

But on the other hand, dancers experienced in wild and wooly places have emphatically affirmed to me that they make more money in places where they can just do, instead of asking "wanna dance".

Say a place has $20 dances and the dancer gets $15 of that. So she goes around and around asking "wanna dance". It can be hard to get money. She might spend lots of time asking.

But say she is at one of these underground table dancing shows, she just sticks her boobs in a guys face and whap whap whap!

Then pulls out the strap of her G-string. Most guys will give her $1. Just like that she can probably make more than in the "wanna dance" places. She can just quickly move from one guy to another and take in maybe $120 per hour.

But say a guy wants her to stay, to suck on her tits, to whisper in her ear. So the meter keeps running. Party tape with no gaps in the songs.

The girl never has to get the guy to agree to anything. She just stays as long as the money keeps coming.

Now instead say it is an even wilder and woolier place. She climbs onto a guys lap, without asking. She starts licking his neck and nibbling on his ear. Then she asks, do you want to give me anything? Many guys will start handing her money, and making out with her. Then as they get real comfortable together, they will take her into the back room to finish what they've started. At some of the most extreme places they don't even bother with a back room. They just bring what they have started to culmination on one of the couches in a darkened corner.

So yes, many girls like to stay in the "wanna dance" clubs. But this does not mean that they make more money.

I like the wilder places, and when they have been available here, I have partaken, and even more, I have learned.

"Wanna dance" is Deja Vu clip joint stuff. It actually lowers the mileage and the GFE level. But it reduces the chance of the club being busted. It does not increase the dancer's money, but if there is limited competition it does increase the clubs money.

SJG
https://sites.google.com/site/sjgportal/

Always best to be able to fraternize with the girl in some unstructured way, before committing to the session and going into private space with her.

Face to face first meetings are better than booking appointments. But physical affection before committing is much much better than just being able to talk.

Some venues, like the best strip clubs, facilitate this. But others, like AMPs, and clip joint strip clubs, usually do not.

Rick Dugan, with his system, doesn't seem to want this preliminary physical affection. That is his right, but I consider it a weakness of his system. Still, his system beats out all the guys who let the girls sell them dances and 'extras'.

Question, in Tijuana, can you get into preliminary physical affection with street hookers, and out on the sidewalk? Can you find the same girls hanging out in bars and strip club / bars?

And then Dr. F.'s Girl By Girl account of the Hong Kong Bar
https://www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=2…

SJG
https://sites.google.com/site/sjgportal/…

Bad Company, Wembley
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4eacLvm…

JS69 wrote, "With other girls, I have decided to insist upon a GFE and kissing in initial negotiations. This is a judgment call but I do this when I don't think I'll get what I want any other way. Decide beforehand whether or not this is a deal breaker for you, and the do your best to negotiate it. I don't like doing this but it is sometimes necessary.
"

Yes this is one way to do it, by bringing it up in verbal negotiations. But strip clubs are so neat because there is another way.

Instead of talking about it just kiss her. Why wait for any VIP room trip or some outside date? Just start it off right from the beginning. Why talk about it when there shouldn't need to be anything to talk about?

If she is hesitant, then set up some other kind of a first date, not just P4P in a motel room. Take her out to eat, or something like that. If she wants to start acting like a girlfriend, she will. If not, then just continue to delay, or cut bait.

Dr. F.'s Girl By Girl account of the Hong Kong Bar
https://www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=2…

SJG
https://sites.google.com/site/sjgportal/…

"Do you guys get this experience with your OTC girl's?"

No. I think my girl #1 only does it for money. But we are good buddies.