Well, TUSCL has an undercurrent of self awareness. We know we have a hobby that is basically paying pretty girls for entertainment and/or sex. We know, usually, that they will not fall in love with us. When the money stops, our ATFs go away. We also are clear about the pitfalls of dating a dancer as those of us who have tell the same story 99% of the time about the experience. Only the newbies here ask, "Does she really like me?".
The girls at SW have no awareness that they are prostitutes in some form or another. They rationalize how a BJ isn't sex. As in another thread, they are appalled that PL's ask for OTC. And the ones that do OTC still don't think they're prostitutes! But then, what would you expect from a typical dancer? Yes, there are exceptions....we've all met dancers that break the stereotype. But they don't seem to post on SW, at least when I was there.
Some of it is regional differences and self selection. A lot of SW girks complain about extras girls, which suggests there are extras girls at their clubs.
Except Detroit and a few high mileage clubs, I think we can agree the extras rate is somewhere between 20-80 %. There are clean dancers our there.
The girls who stick around SW tend to fit the profile of existing members. In practice it's a clean dancer support group. Also, girks who hate extras are loud about it, while girls who are ambivalent or occasional providers may just keep their mouth shut.
I've met SW type girls at my club. They're not the ones I play with of course, but I've seen them sell dances. A lot of PL aren't too picky on mileage.
the girls on SW have an illusion that we men are to pay them for their good looks and semi half dance moves on the floor. the other half thinks they show up at a club and supposed to find a sugar daddy that takes care of them for a long time. either way the delusion is there from the strippers - and what they tend to loose site on is we are the customer and hold the money, if we dont get entertained, we dont go. we dont go they dont get a dime. the strip club doesnt pay them to show up, we do if we choose.
I'm going to be uncharacteristically serious, once I say "brilliant answer JamesSD"!
Society looks down on sex workers. We all know this. Many "straight" people (non-PLs) don't know how many strippers do extras, so the rankings are probably stripper better than prostitute, but many people are very judgemental.
I see sex work as work and think sex workers deserve respect unless the treat their customers poorly. And I don't respect an extras girl more or less than a clean girl. Her choice.
I've never read stripperweb but I suspect it is for support, as JamesSD said. If a girl is clean she probably resents the judgement she gets and needs support. If she is doing extras she probably wants support too, and doesn't want to declare what she is doing. She probably wants to get away from societal judgement.
I respect that, but wouldn't want to read it. Hadn't even heard of it until you brought it up. You pathetic losers are more fun for what I want! In fact you idiots are just brilliant! :)
When I first joined TUSCL I also spent lots of time searching SW for anything to do with DFKing. I found lots of talk about it. They were angry about the girls who did it, in the dance booths, and also in the main room. They went on and on about how bad it was and how they were degrading themselves and how they weren't making any more money either.
But I also found that they talked about it in the context of escorting. They all do it then.
I think what this shows is that most of what they call, "Women's Rules" are actually very slippery. If you want to deal with them you just have to do it the way it has always been done, by playing the Good Girls and the Bad Girls off against each other.
This is why I've raised such an objection to Clip Joints, where the management has figured out how to use architectural devices to limit the typical mileage. They try to prohibit front room action, to force the action into the backroom and behind toll gates. This not only raises the cost, it lowers the typical mileage level, and it also undermines the natural friendliness and openness which might be developed with the girl. So instead you are forced to contend with an SW type of front.
I am very glad to have learned from Subraman that Deja Vu has retreated some in San Francisco and that there do once again seem to be shit holes worth spending money in.
Obviously, there's lying and posing here, as there is on SW, but my sense is, SW takes things to a whole 'nother level. When I read SW, what strikes me is how the way they describe strip clubs is absolutely nothing like what I experience. I've seen a number of guys say here, and I agree: if strip clubs ran anything remotely like what SW girls say it does, and if I got treated anything remotely like the way SW girls say they treat their customers, I'd have no use for strip clubs at all. Almost no girls admit to doing extras on SW, almost no girls admit to doing OTC on SW. Luckily, it's all a wholly-artificial consensus reality created by SW.
I get it, to some extent. Easy for us on tuscl to have some self-awareness -- this is a luxury-expense for us, it's fun, we can even deal with self-deprecating talk about PLs without it effecting our real view of ourselves. But when it's not a luxury expense, but the way you make a living, things are harder ... it's not easy to go through life thinking about yourself, "the only thing society values about me is my sexuality". So, my theory on what's going on: they re-spin themselves as predatory hustlers, it's a critical way they protect themselves, and once they're in a group on SW, they start competing and posing to be the most ruthless. Meanwhile, as Chili Palmer has pointed out, he's met dozens of SW girls in real life, and they are NOTHING like their online personas -- they're regular strippers, who do extras, go OTC, and acknowledge that they would never admit to any of this on SW.
I also don't think that being in such a toxic online environment as SW is really doing those girls any good, emotionally. They seem to just get angrier and angrier. They excuse it all as "stripper support", but instead, SW is an enabler and multiplier of the worst feelings they have.
Many great points said here, and it got me thinking, how do I view strip clubs these days and why do I go?
In most cases I go for extras, maybe shrewd of me to say but I see it almost as a hobby or past-time. Subraman is right, it is for me (and probably most of you) an entertainment expense. You're spending your money on strippers like other guys are spending on gambling, tinkering with their cars or a boat, hunting/guns, collecting items (stamps, guitars, wine, etc.). There are other guys (even on here) that have an addiction to it, but many other guys have addictions to their hobbies as well, that I listed above.
I also like going to have a drink, the atmosphere, and talking to pretty girls as well, but if it weren't for extras I think my strip clubs visits would be a lot less frequent. If I lived closer to decent clubs that provided extras and good looking girls then I would go much more than I do now... become addicted, I think not, but I am addicted to other hobbies so a lot of my free time is spent on those. There are discussion boards for those hobbies, but they're boring and I find this one much more entertaining.
Sorry to get off track but my point is for many of us, strip clubbing is a hobby, and to probably just about all girls on SW, strip clubbing is a job probably a career to many over there. Someone that is trying to make a living comparing to someone that is having fun - well the views aren't going to match up too well. Girls are over there trying to keep their dignity on the board not admitting to the things that they do which they feel degraded by, and over here a lot of guys will exaggerate their club experiences and even lighten the amount they paid for services so they aren't made fun of. All white lies so it's not the end of the world, but it's your job to look past the bullshit being thrown on both sides.
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The girls at SW have no awareness that they are prostitutes in some form or another. They rationalize how a BJ isn't sex. As in another thread, they are appalled that PL's ask for OTC. And the ones that do OTC still don't think they're prostitutes! But then, what would you expect from a typical dancer? Yes, there are exceptions....we've all met dancers that break the stereotype. But they don't seem to post on SW, at least when I was there.
Sometimes they do post on SW. But those are immediately shouted down or banned by the group-mind.
Except Detroit and a few high mileage clubs, I think we can agree the extras rate is somewhere between 20-80 %. There are clean dancers our there.
The girls who stick around SW tend to fit the profile of existing members. In practice it's a clean dancer support group. Also, girks who hate extras are loud about it, while girls who are ambivalent or occasional providers may just keep their mouth shut.
I've met SW type girls at my club. They're not the ones I play with of course, but I've seen them sell dances. A lot of PL aren't too picky on mileage.
Group mind? Just call them The Borg. Lol (star trek fans will understand that reference).
Society looks down on sex workers. We all know this. Many "straight" people (non-PLs) don't know how many strippers do extras, so the rankings are probably stripper better than prostitute, but many people are very judgemental.
I see sex work as work and think sex workers deserve respect unless the treat their customers poorly. And I don't respect an extras girl more or less than a clean girl. Her choice.
I've never read stripperweb but I suspect it is for support, as JamesSD said. If a girl is clean she probably resents the judgement she gets and needs support. If she is doing extras she probably wants support too, and doesn't want to declare what she is doing. She probably wants to get away from societal judgement.
I respect that, but wouldn't want to read it. Hadn't even heard of it until you brought it up. You pathetic losers are more fun for what I want! In fact you idiots are just brilliant! :)
By the way I consider myself an idiot too! So no disrespect!
Remember, the dachshund system rules! It's brilliant! :)
But I also found that they talked about it in the context of escorting. They all do it then.
I think what this shows is that most of what they call, "Women's Rules" are actually very slippery. If you want to deal with them you just have to do it the way it has always been done, by playing the Good Girls and the Bad Girls off against each other.
This is why I've raised such an objection to Clip Joints, where the management has figured out how to use architectural devices to limit the typical mileage. They try to prohibit front room action, to force the action into the backroom and behind toll gates. This not only raises the cost, it lowers the typical mileage level, and it also undermines the natural friendliness and openness which might be developed with the girl. So instead you are forced to contend with an SW type of front.
I am very glad to have learned from Subraman that Deja Vu has retreated some in San Francisco and that there do once again seem to be shit holes worth spending money in.
SJG
Cream White Room, RAH 2005
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCc00pX_…
I get it, to some extent. Easy for us on tuscl to have some self-awareness -- this is a luxury-expense for us, it's fun, we can even deal with self-deprecating talk about PLs without it effecting our real view of ourselves. But when it's not a luxury expense, but the way you make a living, things are harder ... it's not easy to go through life thinking about yourself, "the only thing society values about me is my sexuality". So, my theory on what's going on: they re-spin themselves as predatory hustlers, it's a critical way they protect themselves, and once they're in a group on SW, they start competing and posing to be the most ruthless. Meanwhile, as Chili Palmer has pointed out, he's met dozens of SW girls in real life, and they are NOTHING like their online personas -- they're regular strippers, who do extras, go OTC, and acknowledge that they would never admit to any of this on SW.
I also don't think that being in such a toxic online environment as SW is really doing those girls any good, emotionally. They seem to just get angrier and angrier. They excuse it all as "stripper support", but instead, SW is an enabler and multiplier of the worst feelings they have.
In most cases I go for extras, maybe shrewd of me to say but I see it almost as a hobby or past-time. Subraman is right, it is for me (and probably most of you) an entertainment expense. You're spending your money on strippers like other guys are spending on gambling, tinkering with their cars or a boat, hunting/guns, collecting items (stamps, guitars, wine, etc.). There are other guys (even on here) that have an addiction to it, but many other guys have addictions to their hobbies as well, that I listed above.
I also like going to have a drink, the atmosphere, and talking to pretty girls as well, but if it weren't for extras I think my strip clubs visits would be a lot less frequent. If I lived closer to decent clubs that provided extras and good looking girls then I would go much more than I do now... become addicted, I think not, but I am addicted to other hobbies so a lot of my free time is spent on those. There are discussion boards for those hobbies, but they're boring and I find this one much more entertaining.
Sorry to get off track but my point is for many of us, strip clubbing is a hobby, and to probably just about all girls on SW, strip clubbing is a job probably a career to many over there. Someone that is trying to make a living comparing to someone that is having fun - well the views aren't going to match up too well. Girls are over there trying to keep their dignity on the board not admitting to the things that they do which they feel degraded by, and over here a lot of guys will exaggerate their club experiences and even lighten the amount they paid for services so they aren't made fun of. All white lies so it's not the end of the world, but it's your job to look past the bullshit being thrown on both sides.