Let's say you were inside an Asian massage parlor either waiting to be shown into a room, or already in a room but in the middle of getting a normal massage (having not advanced, at least yet, to a happy ending of any sort), when the joint just happened to be raided. Could you get in trouble for this? I don't see how you could. One guy told me that simply being on a piece of property that is known for illicit activity would be enough. I doubt this. Any thoughts?
I would think if it's a legal business and you aren't caught in any illegal activity you should be fine. I've never been to an AMP but i dont think a massage at a properly licensed venue would be an issue.
This issue has always confused me a bit. Cities and towns must know that those seedy looking massage parlors with the neon "Open" sign out front are usually allowing other things to go on inside. How, then, can so many of them get properly licensed? I'm guessing that businesses are, for a lack of a better phrase, innocent until proven guilty.
To be clear, this didn't happen to me. I've stuck with strip clubs thus far, but the lure of a reasonably priced massage is certainly there. I'm having trouble making that jump, however, and don't know if I ever will. In strip clubs, you can sit at the bar, take in the scenery, and make very sure of what you are getting into. Put another way, you're in control of the situation. At an AMP, there's really much less control, and you're whisked away to your fate.
You don't have to worry about things like this. Only if you are charged with a crime can the cops release your name to the press.
And remember, even if you are engaged in HJ/BJ, or in doing FS, it is still very hard to prove that you were doing something illegal.
It is very rare that AMP customers get busted for anything. Do some searching in your local news papers. Show me if you find anything. I doubt that you will.
Mostly LE just wants to close the place. Busting the girls is not that important.
If they started busting customers, then they would be cutting into too large a segment of the population. Friday I met a local Evangelical Pastor in an AMP parking lot. He said he was going to his dentist. I watched. That was not the door he went into.
I would say that AMPs are generally safe than SC's.
Yeah, but the cops will probably want to bust at least a couple of customers to "send a message." It's all going to depend on the cops, the lawyers involved, what was going on in the other rooms, if it's a political season, and just someone's mood. Play carefully, and have fun.
Thanks for the replies. Phantom, Is there even a way to play carefully at AMPs? There is, of course, only a very small chance that something will happen. But there's almost no way to control that.
I am not aware of any time that an AMP customer was busted.
If someone has a newspaper account I invite them to post it.
All the cops do is go undercover and take off their clothes and see if they can get the girl to say too much, without crossing over the line of entrapment.
You can also look at RUBMAPS for your area and do advanced search and see what is going on in the AMPs. In many places the cops have given up, as they know that they are likely to get in trouble if they get naked.
The last sweep that I know of was in San Francisco almost ten years ago. Mayor Gavin Newsom took point. I think it toned things do for a while, but that is all.
In South Bay they try to close down the apartment places. These places are less discrete once you walk in the door. But they seem to have given up on the storefront places.
Again, if someone has an account of a customer being busted, lets see it.
"Wallis, of Dayton, was charged with felony promoting prostitution, the release states."
This is like pandering. This Wallis must be the owner or the manager. We don't know if anyone else was arrested, and certainly not any customers.
Oh yes, this:
" There will be more employees and possibly some customers facing criminal charges. This investigation is just getting started"
I would say that this is bullshit. They either had evidence on that day, or they never will. Probably they are talking with the DA, trying to figure out how to do these better next time. But there is nothing to investigate. They may not even have evidence to make that charges against the owner stick, or to keep the place closed.
This is just a community and its PD first deciding how they will deal with amps.
Look on the police arrest log and try to find the owners name. Then look for anyone else busted at the same address. Look at the charges than try to get a look at the court docket and calendar.
No, I would not want to be AMPing in this Fairfield, because even if they did have some shops, they are probably not very good.
I look up Cincinnati it only has 7 AMPs. This is without doing any screen by Advanced Search.
I look up Fairfield, and it lists zero AMPs.
To compare, look up San Francisco, and use Advanced Search to make a very tight sex act based screen. Don't screen on the girl's anatomy, as you're not looking at just one girl. Just screen by the sex acts.
Some places are more AMP friendly than others. This one in Fairfield may have been the first one, and so homeowner groups might have circled the wagons to pressure LE. Some places are like this, some places are not.
Anyway, we still don't have any indication that any customers were arrested, let alone charged.
It would be no different than being in a club getting a LM lapdance when the club got raided. They would gather up all the PL's (regardless of their mileage at the time of the bust) and give them shit and then eventually let them go. The ones that pay the price 9 out of 10 times are the dancers.
I had a close friend who was in an AMP when a bust went down. He said the cops gave him and the other customers shit and threatened to arrest them but eventually let them go, so I think Lopaw is spot on.
In order for you to be charged with solicitation they need proof. Unless they've already busted the AMP and have cameras setup for a sting of the customers there is pretty much zero chance they will have proof. Getting a massage is not illegal and having sex in a private location is not illegal. Unless the girl says "he paid me to do it!" or you wrote a note saying "$50 for a HJ" and left it with $50 on the table then there is no way to prove that you paid for the HJ.
Yes the cops with scare you and yes they will run your ID and make sure you aren't wanted but ultimately they will let you go. The point of AMP vice busts is to scare the customers and the girls, shut down the business and make the community feel good that their PD is working. Even though they may take the girls away again unless they have evidence of prostitution they won't be charged either most likely.
If you are not both naked and in the middle of the deed. There is nothing wrong with being in the AMP. Like others have stated the only way they could bust you is if they saw money exchanged for sex and had that discussion on tape. So if any of you have ever been to an AMP or want to go. Most of the time things are discussed with Hand Jesters and you hold up 2 fingers for $200 or things like that. No words are typically spoken. Again like others have stated it would be easy to get off a charge if the police tried to arrest you. Because if you are naked on the table while they give you a massage and then therapist is dressed how can they say anything happened. Even if she is down to bra and panties it is hard for them to say anything happened. Even if she is naked unless you tell them something happened... they can't say anything happened because they were not there!! So AMP's are pretty safe from LE unless you talk too much when getting questioned by them. If you feel them pushing too hard. Just ask... Should I get my lawyer. they will push again.. .then just say.. I don't feel comfortable asking any questions with out my lawyer present.
Lopaw is right, it is mostly just dancers who get busted in SC raids. Always this way. I am sure it is the same for AMPs, if they can even bust anyone. Sure cops will bully, because that is all they can do. With this case near Cincinnati, I am sure that the cops are just grandstanding. They want to keep AMPs out, but it is extremely difficult.
Thursday I lifted a pretty young hottie up on to the table, and then after some preliminaries, I went into her. There was never a word of discussion, just flirting and me telling her about myself. How can anyone establish crime from that?
Friday I was with one who really seemed not accustomed to doing FS. She was resistant. Finally she asked me what I wanted and by holding on to her hips and speaking in some romantic euphemisms, I made her understand, what she must have already understood. So then she asked for money. There is more evidence in this, but it is still two adults alone in a private room. How could cops ever establish that the conversation took place?
Ironcat and occurious are right, they just bully and then let the customers go.
crsm27 is right, that you just politely tell them you don't feel comfortable answering questions without your lawyer. If they don't like that just Mirandize yourself,
"Officer, do I have right to remain silent?" "Officer, do I have the right to have an attorney present during questioning?" "Officer, if I say something could it be used against me in a court of law?"
I got going with AMPs 35 years ago. Back then all strip club were no touching. In the decades since, San Francisco has gone up and then back down some in mileage. But I have always been skeptical about the quality of the offering, in terms of the facility, the cost, the amount of time, and in how much the girl will let go and become your girl friend.
From numerous recent discussions here on TUSCL, I feel confirmed in my view that the SF SC's are clip joints. That is, they limit front room friendliness in order to make more money off of you. Some dancers think this helps them make money too. It doesn't.
Here in Santa Clara County the SC's are strictly no touching, and the last operators who tried to change this paid very heavy penalties.
At the best type of SC, you should be able to fraternize with the girl in an unstructured way. I feel that the best is if you can get her sitting with you and making out with you, in the front room. If you can do this, then there is no doubt about how things will go in the back room.
When in AMPs, you usually can't do anything in the front room. But if you can make it go like this straight away in the session room, the results will be phenomenal.
40 years ago I had read an issue of Hustler. It said that in the world of P4P, AMPs are often the best deal in terms of quality and pricing. Escorts are too expensive, and with Street Walkers there can be a quality issue in terms of the women, and in terms of the delivery site and style.
But in terms of selecting your girl, SC's still have the greatest potential, because they are hang out places. You don't have to commit to anything expensive, you can just hang out. You can try coming on to different girls, and try to get them to make out with you.
As we don't have that kind of SC where I live, I am accustomed to AMPs.
But AMPs are a cultural world of their own. The Asian women are an acquired taste too, both the young hotties and the MILFs. The young hotties are sometimes easier to charm, as they will believe what you are saying. But the MILFs are more inclined to go in for kissing. Their ideas are more conservative then those of white American women. Their communications are more indirect. Their temperament is different too.
Also, in my opinion, Asian men are usually very passive in dealing with women. They are deferential to them. It is part of their family culture. Asian men deny this, but I still feel it is true. Koreans and Japanese don't like their own men. If I were a woman I wouldn't like Korean and Japanese men either. But most Asian girls do like white guys.
But in Asian culture social class and income is everything. So walking in wearing a suit makes a huge difference, especially if you want kissing.
The basic service in an AMP is Happy Ending, or HJ uncovered. The girls do good massages, and they can even walk on your back if you want.
"Some customers very big", holding her hands about 36" apart.
Back walking is about the only way a petite girl can generate the kind of force needed to do a good job massaging a big white guy.
But HJ is what it is basically about. Some people don't even understand that FS is usually available.
The HJ's are done uncovered, and the girl just lets it blast off into space. Usually none gets on her. If it does she just wipes it off. She will usually wipe you off too.
No big deal really. The girls do a good job of it. They are doing HJ's all day long, so they should be good at it.
I say, the less verbal negotiations the better. Asking her to do this or that or offering money is treating her like a prostitute. I don't do this.
You just start feeling her up, if you want. And then guide her hands where you want them to be.
As far as FS, the same basic rules apply. I have found that with FS, it is even better if you never lie down on the massage table, and instead just move on her from a standing and clothed position. If she is with me, she will often end up getting backed up against the wall for DFKing. This may continue on my lap too.
This doesn't always work, but when it does, the experience is phenomenal for both parties.
Fall back positions are to go ahead and get undressed and shower, and then even let her get you on to the table and start massaging you. But still, you can escalate to FS without having to negotiate with her. When she wants money, she will ask.
FS is almost always going to be covered, as many believe it should be. If she wants you to fuck her bare back, watch out. Her rational mind has probably gone onto standby and she likely wants you to make her pregnant.
As far as BJ, that is not really part of the offering. Many girls will do it, and some even BBBJ. But less of them do this than do FS. It does seem to be becoming more common now.
For anyone wanting to check out AMPs, I suggest looking at the reviews on RubMaps. You can register as a free user and this gives you unlimited viewing of the old reviews. Usually as the places continue, the mileage creeps higher and higher each day. So the old reviews are enough. That, and look to see when the last review was entered.
You can also use advanced search to set up multi requirement screens, and this does make use of all the reviews. This will tell you what typically happens in a place.
Then to see how your area rates compared to others, I would suggest comparing to San Francisco by doing the same screen. What San Francisco lacks in SC's, it more than makes up for with AMPs. They are completely brazen in these places, because they have no fear of LE.
IronFox, the best way to play safe in AMPs that I can think of is to do your research first. One, as SJG suggested, is Rubmaps. A couple others I use are eroticmp and TER (you have to be a member to see massage girl reviews on TER). You'll need to set your bullshit detector on high with them, though. For instance, one clown reviewed a local therapist as giving extras, but, as I've experienced and some other posters have attested to, she's never done anything of the sort. If you have some trusted buddies who also hobby, check with them.
Clubber,
No - thankfully i have never actually been inside a club when it got raided. I communicate a bit with some other COI patrons and we try to get any LE intel out to each other if there is a suspicion that something might be going down. The COI has been hit pretty hard in the last few months. A few months ago I caught sight of 3 black & whites that were hiding behind one of our fave clubs and got the word out. Sure enough that night they busted the place.
I've been to a few AMP's but I have never felt safe from LE in them. Once the thrill of going to a few AMP's wore off, I lost the desire for them and prefer to have a more definitive encounter. I prefer to use TER and connect with a reviewed provider and just go to her place. It can be more expensive, but at least you know what you're getting (hopefully her pics are accurate and updated) and it's a guarantee that you'll get that HE.
@lopaw, I'm sorry if you've not felt safe from LE in AMPs. I don't think they are particularly dangerous places, and certainly not compared with SCs. AMPs are run with tighter discipline than SCs are, because they involve less people and because being of an ethnic and linguistic minority, the people are more closely bound together.
As far as the quality of the encounter, what you are describing are Escort sessions. Yes, of course these can be excellent. It could be with someone you met in an SC, an AMP, or just from her ad.
But the potential strength of SCs and AMPs is in the See - Want - Get. That is, you can spot a girl you have never seen before, but are really turned on by. You should be able to fraternize with her before committing, and then you should be able to have an Escort grade session with her right there on the premisises, without her having to change her clothes, take off her stripper shoes, or drive her car. Without you having to let her out of your arms reach.
In practice though, most SC's and AMP's do fall far short of this. In AMP's, only some of the women really have stripper grade looks. The others are too old or too fat. They can be really nice and I have always enjoyed them to the fullest. But they are not stripper grade. Also, they often fall short with the high heels. They take them off, they wear ones without straps so they fall off. They just fall short in the costuming.
Likewise, they usually allow no non-committal fraternizing in AMPs. Test Kisses are almost unheard of. They just say, "Do you want a massage?" and then quote you the price. I have been trying to spread the Test Kiss idea, both in deed, and then in words.
Now sure if you are going to try and get your girl outside and off of the clock, then none of this matters. She will open up to you then and deliver on whatever she was holding back on. But ideally you should just be able to get all you want on site in the first session.
I just did my third AMP session since Thanksgiving. It was real nice. This girl has a temperament similar to other Vietnamese girls I have gotten on well with, both pros and civilians. She really is nice to be with, and DATY / FIV drives her completely wild.
Likewise, I did use window shopping visits to soften her up ahead of time, and I know this contributed to the good results. She already knew that I really liked her and so this made it easier for her and it made her want to go the extra distance as well.
But ideally you would not have to do this. You could fraternize with the girls until you find one you really get along well with and then build this kind of rapport in that first meeting. Front room makeout sessions go a long way towards getting both parties loosened up.
This is unheard of in AMPs. They are concerned about window shoppers and people without money, and about LE. It also is just against the AMP culture. They find it offensive that someone should be trying to get something without paying first. In SCs, it should be easier to do this, but too many people let the girls sell them dances, instead of learning how to drive it themselves.
My concern about FS in SCs, ever since the 90's when this started to become available in SF, was the quality of the session. The costs could be too high and the time insufficient. There could be bully problems with people trying to extort more money out of you. And the girl might not really open up. It might be "extras" FS. So I continued with AMPs, because I understood the culture and because they were all around me.
SC's and AMP's should be able to equal everything which Escorts offer. It should be even easier, as you and the girl can both be checking each other out and building rapport, before committing to the session. It is hard for an Escort / AAMP girl to open up and give GFE with someone she has not met. She doesn't have that feeling in her gut that the customer really likes her, as he/she was just responding to an ad.
And also, See - Want - Get means that you can have the girl dressed and made up exactly as you found her. I don't think this means much to lesbians. But it means a great deal to some heterosexual men like me. So again, SC's and AMP's are potentially much better than Escorts / AAMPs.
But in fact, both AMPs and SCs usually fall short of this potential, and so again I suggest dealing with the mechanical issues which underlie this on my Hong Kong Bar quality thread.
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And remember, even if you are engaged in HJ/BJ, or in doing FS, it is still very hard to prove that you were doing something illegal.
It is very rare that AMP customers get busted for anything. Do some searching in your local news papers. Show me if you find anything. I doubt that you will.
Mostly LE just wants to close the place. Busting the girls is not that important.
If they started busting customers, then they would be cutting into too large a segment of the population. Friday I met a local Evangelical Pastor in an AMP parking lot. He said he was going to his dentist. I watched. That was not the door he went into.
I would say that AMPs are generally safe than SC's.
SJG
30 decades of AMPing!
If someone has a newspaper account I invite them to post it.
All the cops do is go undercover and take off their clothes and see if they can get the girl to say too much, without crossing over the line of entrapment.
You can also look at RUBMAPS for your area and do advanced search and see what is going on in the AMPs. In many places the cops have given up, as they know that they are likely to get in trouble if they get naked.
The last sweep that I know of was in San Francisco almost ten years ago. Mayor Gavin Newsom took point. I think it toned things do for a while, but that is all.
In South Bay they try to close down the apartment places. These places are less discrete once you walk in the door. But they seem to have given up on the storefront places.
Again, if someone has an account of a customer being busted, lets see it.
SJG
last line
This is like pandering. This Wallis must be the owner or the manager. We don't know if anyone else was arrested, and certainly not any customers.
Oh yes, this:
" There will be more employees and possibly some customers facing criminal charges. This investigation is just getting started"
I would say that this is bullshit. They either had evidence on that day, or they never will. Probably they are talking with the DA, trying to figure out how to do these better next time. But there is nothing to investigate. They may not even have evidence to make that charges against the owner stick, or to keep the place closed.
This is just a community and its PD first deciding how they will deal with amps.
Look on the police arrest log and try to find the owners name. Then look for anyone else busted at the same address. Look at the charges than try to get a look at the court docket and calendar.
No, I would not want to be AMPing in this Fairfield, because even if they did have some shops, they are probably not very good.
I look up Cincinnati it only has 7 AMPs. This is without doing any screen by Advanced Search.
I look up Fairfield, and it lists zero AMPs.
To compare, look up San Francisco, and use Advanced Search to make a very tight sex act based screen. Don't screen on the girl's anatomy, as you're not looking at just one girl. Just screen by the sex acts.
Some places are more AMP friendly than others. This one in Fairfield may have been the first one, and so homeowner groups might have circled the wagons to pressure LE. Some places are like this, some places are not.
Anyway, we still don't have any indication that any customers were arrested, let alone charged.
Thank you for sharing this article with us!
SJG
Yes the cops with scare you and yes they will run your ID and make sure you aren't wanted but ultimately they will let you go. The point of AMP vice busts is to scare the customers and the girls, shut down the business and make the community feel good that their PD is working. Even though they may take the girls away again unless they have evidence of prostitution they won't be charged either most likely.
Ever been in a raided club? Might be different for you then for the guys. I guess "dress" might be on your side. :)
Thursday I lifted a pretty young hottie up on to the table, and then after some preliminaries, I went into her. There was never a word of discussion, just flirting and me telling her about myself. How can anyone establish crime from that?
Friday I was with one who really seemed not accustomed to doing FS. She was resistant. Finally she asked me what I wanted and by holding on to her hips and speaking in some romantic euphemisms, I made her understand, what she must have already understood. So then she asked for money. There is more evidence in this, but it is still two adults alone in a private room. How could cops ever establish that the conversation took place?
Ironcat and occurious are right, they just bully and then let the customers go.
crsm27 is right, that you just politely tell them you don't feel comfortable answering questions without your lawyer. If they don't like that just Mirandize yourself,
"Officer, do I have right to remain silent?" "Officer, do I have the right to have an attorney present during questioning?" "Officer, if I say something could it be used against me in a court of law?"
I got going with AMPs 35 years ago. Back then all strip club were no touching. In the decades since, San Francisco has gone up and then back down some in mileage. But I have always been skeptical about the quality of the offering, in terms of the facility, the cost, the amount of time, and in how much the girl will let go and become your girl friend.
From numerous recent discussions here on TUSCL, I feel confirmed in my view that the SF SC's are clip joints. That is, they limit front room friendliness in order to make more money off of you. Some dancers think this helps them make money too. It doesn't.
Here in Santa Clara County the SC's are strictly no touching, and the last operators who tried to change this paid very heavy penalties.
At the best type of SC, you should be able to fraternize with the girl in an unstructured way. I feel that the best is if you can get her sitting with you and making out with you, in the front room. If you can do this, then there is no doubt about how things will go in the back room.
When in AMPs, you usually can't do anything in the front room. But if you can make it go like this straight away in the session room, the results will be phenomenal.
40 years ago I had read an issue of Hustler. It said that in the world of P4P, AMPs are often the best deal in terms of quality and pricing. Escorts are too expensive, and with Street Walkers there can be a quality issue in terms of the women, and in terms of the delivery site and style.
But in terms of selecting your girl, SC's still have the greatest potential, because they are hang out places. You don't have to commit to anything expensive, you can just hang out. You can try coming on to different girls, and try to get them to make out with you.
As we don't have that kind of SC where I live, I am accustomed to AMPs.
But AMPs are a cultural world of their own. The Asian women are an acquired taste too, both the young hotties and the MILFs. The young hotties are sometimes easier to charm, as they will believe what you are saying. But the MILFs are more inclined to go in for kissing. Their ideas are more conservative then those of white American women. Their communications are more indirect. Their temperament is different too.
Also, in my opinion, Asian men are usually very passive in dealing with women. They are deferential to them. It is part of their family culture. Asian men deny this, but I still feel it is true. Koreans and Japanese don't like their own men. If I were a woman I wouldn't like Korean and Japanese men either. But most Asian girls do like white guys.
But in Asian culture social class and income is everything. So walking in wearing a suit makes a huge difference, especially if you want kissing.
The basic service in an AMP is Happy Ending, or HJ uncovered. The girls do good massages, and they can even walk on your back if you want.
"Some customers very big", holding her hands about 36" apart.
Back walking is about the only way a petite girl can generate the kind of force needed to do a good job massaging a big white guy.
But HJ is what it is basically about. Some people don't even understand that FS is usually available.
The HJ's are done uncovered, and the girl just lets it blast off into space. Usually none gets on her. If it does she just wipes it off. She will usually wipe you off too.
No big deal really. The girls do a good job of it. They are doing HJ's all day long, so they should be good at it.
I say, the less verbal negotiations the better. Asking her to do this or that or offering money is treating her like a prostitute. I don't do this.
You just start feeling her up, if you want. And then guide her hands where you want them to be.
As far as FS, the same basic rules apply. I have found that with FS, it is even better if you never lie down on the massage table, and instead just move on her from a standing and clothed position. If she is with me, she will often end up getting backed up against the wall for DFKing. This may continue on my lap too.
This doesn't always work, but when it does, the experience is phenomenal for both parties.
Fall back positions are to go ahead and get undressed and shower, and then even let her get you on to the table and start massaging you. But still, you can escalate to FS without having to negotiate with her. When she wants money, she will ask.
FS is almost always going to be covered, as many believe it should be. If she wants you to fuck her bare back, watch out. Her rational mind has probably gone onto standby and she likely wants you to make her pregnant.
As far as BJ, that is not really part of the offering. Many girls will do it, and some even BBBJ. But less of them do this than do FS. It does seem to be becoming more common now.
For anyone wanting to check out AMPs, I suggest looking at the reviews on RubMaps. You can register as a free user and this gives you unlimited viewing of the old reviews. Usually as the places continue, the mileage creeps higher and higher each day. So the old reviews are enough. That, and look to see when the last review was entered.
You can also use advanced search to set up multi requirement screens, and this does make use of all the reviews. This will tell you what typically happens in a place.
Then to see how your area rates compared to others, I would suggest comparing to San Francisco by doing the same screen. What San Francisco lacks in SC's, it more than makes up for with AMPs. They are completely brazen in these places, because they have no fear of LE.
Enjoy!
SJG
No - thankfully i have never actually been inside a club when it got raided. I communicate a bit with some other COI patrons and we try to get any LE intel out to each other if there is a suspicion that something might be going down. The COI has been hit pretty hard in the last few months. A few months ago I caught sight of 3 black & whites that were hiding behind one of our fave clubs and got the word out. Sure enough that night they busted the place.
As far as the quality of the encounter, what you are describing are Escort sessions. Yes, of course these can be excellent. It could be with someone you met in an SC, an AMP, or just from her ad.
But the potential strength of SCs and AMPs is in the See - Want - Get. That is, you can spot a girl you have never seen before, but are really turned on by. You should be able to fraternize with her before committing, and then you should be able to have an Escort grade session with her right there on the premisises, without her having to change her clothes, take off her stripper shoes, or drive her car. Without you having to let her out of your arms reach.
This is what I am trying to address on this thread:
Hong Kong Bar quality
https://www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=3…
In practice though, most SC's and AMP's do fall far short of this. In AMP's, only some of the women really have stripper grade looks. The others are too old or too fat. They can be really nice and I have always enjoyed them to the fullest. But they are not stripper grade. Also, they often fall short with the high heels. They take them off, they wear ones without straps so they fall off. They just fall short in the costuming.
Likewise, they usually allow no non-committal fraternizing in AMPs. Test Kisses are almost unheard of. They just say, "Do you want a massage?" and then quote you the price. I have been trying to spread the Test Kiss idea, both in deed, and then in words.
Now sure if you are going to try and get your girl outside and off of the clock, then none of this matters. She will open up to you then and deliver on whatever she was holding back on. But ideally you should just be able to get all you want on site in the first session.
I just did my third AMP session since Thanksgiving. It was real nice. This girl has a temperament similar to other Vietnamese girls I have gotten on well with, both pros and civilians. She really is nice to be with, and DATY / FIV drives her completely wild.
Likewise, I did use window shopping visits to soften her up ahead of time, and I know this contributed to the good results. She already knew that I really liked her and so this made it easier for her and it made her want to go the extra distance as well.
But ideally you would not have to do this. You could fraternize with the girls until you find one you really get along well with and then build this kind of rapport in that first meeting. Front room makeout sessions go a long way towards getting both parties loosened up.
So the best, in my opinion would be how Jestrite50 does it:
https://www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=3…
This is unheard of in AMPs. They are concerned about window shoppers and people without money, and about LE. It also is just against the AMP culture. They find it offensive that someone should be trying to get something without paying first. In SCs, it should be easier to do this, but too many people let the girls sell them dances, instead of learning how to drive it themselves.
My concern about FS in SCs, ever since the 90's when this started to become available in SF, was the quality of the session. The costs could be too high and the time insufficient. There could be bully problems with people trying to extort more money out of you. And the girl might not really open up. It might be "extras" FS. So I continued with AMPs, because I understood the culture and because they were all around me.
SC's and AMP's should be able to equal everything which Escorts offer. It should be even easier, as you and the girl can both be checking each other out and building rapport, before committing to the session. It is hard for an Escort / AAMP girl to open up and give GFE with someone she has not met. She doesn't have that feeling in her gut that the customer really likes her, as he/she was just responding to an ad.
And also, See - Want - Get means that you can have the girl dressed and made up exactly as you found her. I don't think this means much to lesbians. But it means a great deal to some heterosexual men like me. So again, SC's and AMP's are potentially much better than Escorts / AAMPs.
But in fact, both AMPs and SCs usually fall short of this potential, and so again I suggest dealing with the mechanical issues which underlie this on my Hong Kong Bar quality thread.
SJG
Southside Johnny and the Asbury Jukes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyQ0HeM4…