Portland, Aphrodities Hot Lingerie Party, front room versus back room issues?

SJG, in the long litany of weird shit that you post, washing the purple AMP girl's car is one of the weirdest yet. Congratulations. You've outdone yourself.

SJG, dude it's not that complicated.

Man, that's quite an article you wrote here. I'm not going to bash nor praise you but it is something.

There are a couple of lingerie-modeling places over in Rockford, Illinois (Chantilly Lace and Exclusive Lingerie Boutique). I haven't been to either of them (doggone it all anyway), but from the sounds of the reviews, they do offer line-ups of the ladies and you get your choice.

I've been to a couple of them in Indianapolis though. Studio Indy offered a line-up of one model. The place got shut down because there was some hanky-panky going on with some of the customers (at least that's what a model at the other place told me). The other place -- the Cat House -- offered a line-up of two models. (No hanky-panky and no fun was had there.)

So, my guess would be that you'll probably get to see a line-up. Worse comes to worse, you could always just give the place a call to find out how things work.

I want to clarify my original post, as I see there was unintended ambiguity in it. I never helped Donna wash her car. But this was only because she never asked me to, and if I hadn't of learned that she had already finished, I would have volunteered.

I parked my own car in their parking lot and got out. I had just come from work and I was not sure if I wanted to session or not. What I saw by the side of the building was a barefoot woman wearing a purple dress. She had a bucket. I assumed that she must have been washing her feet in the bucket. I did not see any hose, and I did not associate the car as being part of the scene.

In retrospect, I could have approached her. If I had perceived her as washing the car, I might have. But washing her feet, probably not. I would see that as more of a private act, and I saw that area of the property as being essentially private.

So I decided that I would session with her. So I entered the lobby and the girl who approached me was the one who's turn it was. I explained about the foot washing and the purple dress. They kept sending out additional girls, one at a time. I kept explaining. Finally one of them realized what must have happened, that I had seen Donna when she was washing her car. So they went and got her and she came out, with her high heels on now. What ensued was mind blowing and I want to write an article about it, and about my contacts with her in the years which followed.

The legend which followed from this was of me and Donna, wearing her purple dress, and washing her car.

Today I look at Rub Maps and the RA's seem to keep their names as they move from shop to shop. I don't think they should be saying as much as they do on Rub Maps. I think it could be getting shops closed and getting girls in trouble.

But anyway, back when, they used to always change names. So Donna would go on to have other names. But I could just look in an entertainment newspaper and start calling ad numbers and then I would recite Donna's names, and then I would explain how I had met her in Sunnyvale, and then the RA at the other end of the line would recite about the car washing and the purple dress. Sometimes I would have to speak of the car washing, but the girl on the other end of the line always knew about the purple dress. So this story was being repeated widely for more than a decade.

My reason for telling this here on this thread is to speak to the selections process. Obviously someone went and got Donna and explained that a guy was there who wanted a massage and he had seen you washing your car and he won't accept anybody else.

So in her mind, I would not even be in the lobby if I had not seen her. This probably was the truth. I did not even have any cash and so I had to credit card it, and they charged a premium for this.

But this is why as soon as we got into the massage room, we were in the center of it and melting into each others arms and kissing intensely. No need back her up against a wall or anything like that in this case.

I want to tell more of this, but I will save it for later.

But just to conclude about Donna for now, just as I was able to locate her before by using the telephone and telling the story and letting the other party complete it, I have also learned from multiple independent sources and some f2f observations that Donna has since passed away from leukemia. I continue to be saddened by this, particularly that I was never able to spend more time with her, to offer more of myself to her, to give her more money, and maybe to find some way of knowing her that would be beneficial to both parties. Donna did live a good life. She was more comfortable in the life she was leading and in the role she was serving than I have ever been for myself. Actually I feel this way about many of my RA's from that era, and some more recent ones.

I could not go further with any of them because I was married and because I had my own problems. I did not want to set any of them up as my mistress. I knew that this was a no no because it will always end up with the girl's feelings being badly hurt. This is when it can really bite back, and besides, it is just not how I want to live.

So I would let them make their Girl Friend Auditions. I did appreciate that, and I wanted to be able to accept. But I never did. They will go up to a point for people who are just there looking for what money can buy. But they made it very clear and obvious that they were going beyond this. Sometimes this did include various means of communicating that they did not need to be paid. They still got paid anyway, as it is a show of respect.

So the reason I am mentioning all of this, is that it does relate to all P4P venues. How it is likely to go depends entirely on the sort of rapport you have established with the girl, before you hand her the bulk of the money, and on how she perceives you and what you are there for.

If she sees you as just a guy looking for some sort of "service", to be administered by a generic young female, then it won't be much. But if she has come to understand you some, and if she sees you and she as having some special connection, then there is no limit to how far it might go.

So one of the worst ways is to be presented with girls in sequence, as is sometimes done in AMPs and Lingerie Modeling. You have to reject one before you get to see another. This is obviously most distasteful.

The next worst is to be shown a line up of all those available. If you pick one, she will not really know why you picked her. It is an ambiguous situation at best. You are also forcing them to all get on to their feet and to go through something rather negative.

A better way is if you can just get into their lounging area and see them as they are. Often I have just been able to get in the front door and escort myself into the lounging area. Sometimes I've said the right words to the receptionist and she has let me just stick my head in the door. This is less obtrusive. It is also better if one is just window shopping.

Then there is the issue of how much you can interact with them, besides just looking and then stating a preference. In some places, like South Bay, they don't want there to be any chance of anyone who walks in seeing anything conspicuous.

In San Francisco, I know that they don't care. One place had the selections room at the far back of the unit. So you would be escorted down a long hallway, to the room where the girls were just lounging around.

I told some of this story before. I selected one, girl A. But it turned out that she needed to complete an urgent telephone call. I should have just communicated with her and got some ascent from her, and then waited. But according to protocol girl A was obliged to pass me along to the others. Usually they just would have kept her hidden from view until she was actually available.

Another, girl B, emerged and was right in my face. She was fine, actually younger, and lacking nothing in form or face. Very quickly we were DFKing and the snaps popped open on her uniform dress and she had my clothes off. We somehow got behind a blanket which separated a little cubby hole from the selections room. She got me down on the floor on top of her and it was tab A in slot B and intense DFKing.

When someone had posted before about these "chair forts" and the early days of high mileage in Dallas and Houston, I had an immediate visceral response to it. Now I realize that this was because of this experience in San Francisco of being on the floor with the girl, in a little cubby hole and with only a blanket separating us from the rest of the girls and their lounging room.

This is more how it is done in San Francisco. The sessions start fast and conclude fast, as there is far less interest in plausible deniability. There was nothing lacking or deficient about what this girl B was doing. She was at full throttle from the very start. I think she had volunteered to stand in for A, and so she intended to really deliver. I just wish it had started differently, or that I had picked her, or that I had waited for girl A. Today I would be able to handle it better, and with either girl it would go very well.

Again though, I am explaining this to further show that the selections process is everything!

The best AMP sessions I have had always involved some manner of breaking the selections process open, having it happen outside the confines which had been designed for it.

There was Donna washing her car by the side of the building. There was the Korean girl in San Francisco, showing me her extreme eye makeup through this viewing hatch in the front door, but then being absent when they finally did open the door. She was busy with someone else. So she was obliged to let the others take me, and to stay out of view. But she had screwed them over with her front door games. I insisted on seeing her. So they brought her out and I insisted on waiting. She was already as giddy as a girl could be over what she had done.

I was watching the hallway as I waited. She passed by and did what duty required, spoke to me and tried to pass me along to the others. I was not interested in listening to such talk. I pulled her into the room and held her up against a wall for some gentle but purposeful DFKing. I didn't release her until I had a commitment that she would finish up and be back soon.

Another time was with another Korean girl who was cutting hair at another Sunnyvale AMP. I was just going to cruise them, to window shop. But through the window front I saw her cutting hair. Since no one else was around and she had her back to me, I watched her for quite a while, waiting to get to see her face. When I did, I decided to session. She was wearing this cute pink and white dress which had full skirting which came down almost to her knees, and matching pink high heeled sandals, the kind which have straps to make sure they stay on. She had petticoats under her dress.

When we got into the room I just continued talking to her and getting to know her and I didn't look like someone who wanted any kind of a massage. She didn't like being cornered and moved on, so I sat down. Finally she asked, "Do you want a haircut". I just kept looking at her and turned my head from side to side. I had already explained all about how I had been watching her through the window. She was very concerned about getting caught and she had not yet signed on to the idea that her job description included FS. She was even wearing panty hose. But after I declined the hair cut, her shoulders finally dropped, and what ensued was phenomenal. She had no idea how many of the others from that shop I had already done.

Other times the selection process was broken open just by doing window shopping. I would get in and get to see the girls, and often get a name from the one I wanted, and then explain that I would return. The idea was that I probably was not carrying any money. This was usually so. Then when I did return, the girl would already be giddy with anticipation. She could see that it meant more to me than it does to the guys who come looking for Happy Ending. She could see that it even meant more than it does to most of those looking for FS.

Most of the people who come into these places take what ever girl they get and then do what they are told, clothes off, take shower, lie face down on the table, and wait for the girl to return. Then they try to negotiate with the girl, from the position of lying down naked on the table. Usually they offer them money and generally speak to them as though they are women who sell sex and sexual services for money.

What Donna would say years later about doing the vast majority of the customers was "don't feel anything". Others have described it to me in exactly the same way.

What I regret today was that I was not able to be more available to all of these women, that I did not see them more, pay them more money, and also eventually set it up so that we had some sort of mutually beneficial and off the clock relationship. This really was what so many of them indicated that they wanted. I appreciated this, but I was not in a position to oblige.

I believe that this issue is why some, including some regular TUSCL posters, treat them so badly from the beginning. "I'm not here to buy drinks." "Do you do extras?" "Do you grind the whole time during a lap dance?"

Well yes, if you treat them that way from the beginning, then you aren't going to find your self in the situation of experiencing regret because the girl is indicating in every way she can that she wants an outside relationship, but you are not able to oblige.

So I go into all this to emphasize how important the selections process is. Through it you establish what sort of relationship you intend to have with the girl, why you are there, what you are looking for, how you intend to treat her, and why it is that you are picking her instead of another, and why it is that she might find you interesting to know. All of this can allow her to open herself up more and let it become more intimate.

It is going to be similar in an AMP, a Lingerie Modeling place, or an Adult Entertainment place. You also have to deal with the same issues in the Nevada Wild Wild West styled houses where they offer lineups.

But now some of these Nevada houses are adding strip clubs. And of course the TJ Hong Kong Bar is a strip club. A strip club is the one place where it is designed to work better. In a strip club there need not be any particular structure to it. You can fraternize almost any way you want. You will usually be passing out some money doing this, but it does not need to be much, not at the start. You can interact some with all of the women. You can conceal which one it is you like. You can let a couple of them start competing for your money and attention. There aren't really many rules. At least their needn't be.

Now of course the girls will want to get dances, and get them as quickly as possible. So in some places, they are the ones getting aggressively friendly in order to do this. I do plan on being out to some of these infamous places too.

But often, if the girl wants a dance, she knows that she will have to spend some time talking in order to get it. This is how I have always been able to make it work in San Francisco. But then this is also why I would get there, riding up on the Cal Train and walking for over 1 hour, as the doors were being opened.

You can also give her sitting tips. These she will not have to cut with the house. In some local places I have just handed the girl the full dance amount, just to keep sitting and talking with me. You find ways to make it work. It is the lack of rules and the fact that both parties have the option of being quite forward, that allow it to work so well.

Now of course the best is what Jestrite50 has submitted, around post 23: tuscl.net

and then Duke69 has gone on to further comment on this: tuscl.net

This is analogous to the best of what I was able to make happen in AMPs. But a key difference is that in Strip Clubs, there needn't be anything built into it and designed to prevent this. And in the most extreme of Strip Clubs, it is the girls who are this aggressive.

So about how this would pertain to Aphrodite's Lingerie Modeling in Portland, I note that it is the third rated TUSCL, after the Hong Kong Bar and Adelitas. So what could this place have? I suspect that the back room action is better. Though I have no specific information and I am not trying to pin anything on that place, I would suggest that they might offer slower more relaxed sessions and things like MSOG.

But where it will always fall short will be in the front room part, the selections process, as compared to a Strip Club. Even if they do offer a line up, or if they do let you talk to the girls some, or whatever, it is still you partaking in this and hence putting all the girls on the spot and making them jump through hoops. This structure makes for a negative start.

In a Strip Club there really is no protocol. You can just hang and play and see what happens. You never have to reject any of the girls. You don't really ever have to express any absolute preference either. You can just play, and be giving them some money for being there, and it will work out. So what happens in the back room should be far better. But I still fear that most of these places, at least in the US, fall short in the back room part of the offering.

Do others have stories of how they have been able to work the front room selection process and set up something phenomenal, which they would like to share? It could be SC's, AMP's, Lingerie Modeling, Nevada Houses, or anything else like this. Do others have ideas as to how such places could be improved? Does anyone disagree with my premise that SC's have the greatest potential for the best front room selections process?

sites.google.com SJG

Red Hot Chili Peppers youtube.com

People who are really interested in Aphrodites should read the reviews, because the reviews bring up multiple points:

1. Aphrodites is not a normal strip club, there is no bartender of any kind. Patrons show up and are let into the place by the dancer available.

2. Usually there are a very limited number of dancers on staff at these places. For similar type of places in Portland check out the following listings: Pussycats, G Spot, Seductions, Secret Rendevous, and Stilletos. When you read the reviews of these places it is apparent that in the "back room," YMMV but what is guaranteed is the ability to "finish yourself off" implying a manual hand job that the patron performs on himself. BUT, in the best scenario possibility, yes full sex could more easily happen at these types of places then a strip club, but I'm not sure really how often that happens, I think it is less likely honestly.

3. Club website used to keep updated about which girls were available on facebook facebook.com but if you are interested in going now I suggest calling first to see if there are any girls there first.

4. The only thing that is sold at Aphrodites is time with the girls, and the girls will decide what kind of service to give you. If there are a limited number of girls, who are currently occupied, the best bet is to try the strip club about 500 yards away, Lure, or the other "jackshack - lingerie modeling" neighboring business is Pussycats.

5. Don't come to this club expecting a lot of girls, or girls who are willing to spend a lot of time with you just to socialize (as is the norm in many strip clubs). Expect to be hustled from the moment you enter, up until you make payment and leave. Expect to decide what girl you want and how long you want, and prepare yourself to spend a lot, and then afterwards, write a review about your experience. I think this place has potential, I have even considered dancing here, but I do not like how limited it feels.

I personally enjoy working in the strip club environment, with multiple women, multiple patrons and multiple activity options. I think I would go bored waiting around for a patron to come once a day or maybe not at all in an entire day.

I cannot believe that they are ranked in any top ten way on TUSCL because this club is not even really a real "strip club," as most people consider them to be. This establishment does not sell ANYTHING (no drinks, no food, etc) except private time with the girls. They keep it almost understaffed, with most likely 1 or 2 dancers at a time, maybe up to 3. If you come to the club and one dancer is unavailable, than you must choose the other dancer, and if both are unavailable, you will not even be let into the club.

OK, that said, Googlemaps the place and you can see it is really just a house. So the potential to have an experience like say, hanging out with your sexy girlfriend alone, is very strong at this place. If you go, and you like the girl, most girls tend to rush the customer to a decision on what kind of time they want to spend on the girl. If you get lucky, you may reach an agreement with a girl you like, and in that case, who knows. But from the reviews I read, most girls encourage the patrons to get their lapdances and leave, not hang around and try multiple girls out.

From TUSCL reviews of Aphrodites: "Both times, the dances were lacking sensuality but I was led to believe that might improve if I were to purchase additional dances. One time I fell for it but the other time I didn't. The time that I fell for it, they did not improve."

"The place is a bit different in that you have to ring a doorbell to come in. I rang the doorbell three or four different times and no one came to the door. I probably stuck around 10 minutes or so before giving up ... I suspect the night I went there was only one dancer or something. My guess is that if they are only a small number of dancers and they are busy, you'll never get through the front door."

"You don't really have a choice about which dancer - whomever answers the door is who you get. I inquired about other dancers, but was told that no one else was on shift both times."

"The VIP room comes with all the upsell that you can find at any ole jack shack. It's 100 for the room, then the upsell starts, and I didn't want to play more, so the dancer cut me off at 2.5 dances, and explained that if I wasn't going to tip, that I wasn't actually in the VIP room, and therefore I only received three dances. I asked her why I paid 100 instead of 40 (which is the non-VIP price of 3 dances for 40) and she said it's because I am in the VIP room. She said this without irony, wholly unaware of the circular nature of her statements; or she is a killer actress."

"We settled for a few minutes, discussing how things worked, and I got my 30 minutes. Unfortunately, the gal wouldn't budge from her $120 base price, saying that it had recently increased. Strike one, IMO. $120 doesn't cut it when $150 allows you to pick your own girl elsewhere ... The dancer took me to a second-choice room, since her first choice was occupied. She set the timer on her phone, which I caught and was not 30 minutes. I confirmed this on my phone with a before/after time check. She started the time and got into the dance with the door open. After a couple of minutes, she decided it was safe to close the door, but took her phone and sent a text while she was doing it...more time out the window. Contact was good, but after about 15 minutes, she stopped and we started talking. I kept trying to get her to start again, but she just kept talking. Finally, she picked up her phone and informed me time was up. She asked for a tip on top of the standard fee, but I was totally disappointed. Why tip, exactly?"

I speculate that a good percentage of the reviews are Shill (40 percent?) and about 20 percent are positive reviews and the other 40 percent are honest "negative" reviews where the patrons did not necessarily enjoy the experience they wrote about. So with that said, WHY are they in top ten and not any other more popular destination strip clubs in Portland like Stars or Casa Diablo?

Trixxie this is some great stuff here. Thank you very much. I have only frequented the strip clubs, Dancer Bars, Go Go Clubs etc. I have never been to a Lingerie Modeling Club or a Jack Shack. That venue never appealed to me. I have been to strip clubs that offer Jack Shack services as an option. This is what I consider the shower shows in some clubs where you pay a fee to watch women shower behind glass and they give you a roll of paper towels to clean yourself up. Keep the info cumming Trixxie. I just love your articles and comments. How could we entice you to be a regular contributor ?

I've never been there, not really sure how the hustle goes in there so I stick to where I'm familiar with.

Though I have a little information from a dancer who works at Stars said she spent a good number of months working there before moving to strip clubs.

Yes, the ranking is whacked.

Trixxi, thanks for the good info and for posting the excerpts from the reviews. Many of us are not VIP members and so we cannot read them ourselves. It seemed strange to me that this place made it into the top three as well.

I do feel that what you are saying about the place does reinforce my own concerns about it, that the lack of unstructured fraternizing and being forced to make a selection jinxes the private time with the girl. She is not going to want to do much, and what she does do will not be very good.

It is not just a matter of whether or not I like her looks. It is also, can we get along? And how does she perceive me and my being there?

If I can fraternize in an unstructured way with a number of the girls, at some cost, and then finally as some affinity is established, make a selection, then the private time can be phenomenal. The more friendly we can get before this commitment is made, the better.

I know there are several of these Lingerie Modeling places in Portland. There is also one which looks to be halfway in between Lingerie Modeling and an SC. What happens in the back room could be really nice. But the risk and pressure factors in the front room could be very high. It just has to do with how you and the girl are put together.

Even a line up with a dozen girls, is still not conducive to building affinity and rapport.

This is of course how it is done in the Nevada houses, and I don't think many people like those.

It is also how it goes in AMPs, but there the money is lower, and also they are run less formally. So sneaky people like me have figured how to circumvent the intended selection process and make it go the way we want. Of course what this means is finding a girl I like and letting her see and understand why I like her and getting her giddy with anticipation. Definitely I want to get verbally and physically friendly with her before we even get to the massage room, and then I will continue this as soon as we are inside. Better still is to start getting extremely friendly before paying the house fee or exiting the selection room.

Their jobs can be boring. HJ after HJ after HJ. So when someone like me comes there to seduce and ravage them, that is big fun. And even in the SF places and a few of the South Bay places where they are doing lots of FS, still most of the people are treating them like vending machines. I don't. I never try to verbally persuade them to do anything. I never offer them money. Sex is something we have inherited evolutionarily, so it does not require words. Talking about sex is just for situations when all you intend to do is talk, like at our local strip clubs. When I am actually going to make it happen, I just use my voice to calm her, but I don't negotiate with her over it.

So yes, being willing to spend enough time and lots of money you might eventually get on well with a girl at one of these Lingerie Modeling places. Likewise, having learned how to work the venue, you can make it real nice at AMPs. But the flat out best arrangement is always going to be at a strip club. It will work, just so long as there are not lots of arbitrary restrictions put into place, like nude versus non-nude dances, and multiple levels of booths for this, and front room no touching rules. Those types of places are clip joints. They keep people believing in a fantasy, while actually offering very little.

So we want the open type of SC's, where it really just comes down to you and the girl. No one else is getting involved in it. This is always going to be best. And you want to be able to interact with multiple girls. If a girl is after me and my money that is one thing. But if she is then also competing with another girl, her rationality will likely switch off, as she will do whatever it takes to show she is better than the other girl. Us guys need to learn to use situations like this to our advantage.

And like I keep saying, the best AMP experiences I had were because I was the 1 out of 1000 who did not treat her like a prostitute. She liked me and she could see that I really liked her and was not just taking her because she was on the menu. So she turned it into a Girl Friend Audition.

We need to promote unstructured strip clubs, and then also allow them to improve the backroom space and time arrangement. So we need a Honk Kong Bar front room environment, and we need a Honk Kong Bar back room environment. And finally we need to get TUSCLER's to stop treating their women like prostitutes.

SJG

Stones youtube.com

"So when someone like me comes there to seduce and ravage them, that is big fun."

This is how I know you have never been laid, haha I guess SJG can be funny

I thought "getting her giddy with anticipation" was good for a chuckle, too.

IME and PhantomGeek,

Do they have AMPs where you live? You should visit and find out for yourselves. These places can be lots of fun. At the tamer ones, the girls do get board doing happy endings all day long. They welcome some excitement. At the more extreme ones, they aren't bored, they give explosive service.

It isn't like this today, but such things do have along history in San Francisco. They used to call the places "cribs". americanhistoryusa.com

About Aphrodite's

It may be that at this Aphrodite's in Portland, they just have a few girls who are really good at this, all GFE all the time. So just as soon as you walk in the door, they convince you that you are in the right place. If so, they should be appreciated and supported.

I encountered a black girl long long ago at S.F. New Century. I remain blown away by how physically open she was able to be with a stranger. She should be considered as a great resource. She may be one who is mentioned in John Hubner's book, and who has since graduated from UC Davis Medical School.

It was like this with the Taiwanese RedBook AAMPs. The girls had been really well coached. You didn't have to prepare them in anyway. You just walked in the door and they were at full throttle.

The Koreans were not like this. There were few Vietnamese, but usually they were not like this either.

So if the reviews indicate that Aphrodite's is so loved just because of the way a few spectacular girls are able to do it, great.

But overall, the SC format is still the better one. It can allow for unstructured fraternizing and building up of rapport, before committing to much money or time. This is how it is in the Hong Kong Bar, and that works stupendously.

Portland has quite a few of these Lingerie Modeling places. But the odds of getting a great session have got to be better in the SC's.

In AMPs, you have the same mechanics as in Lingerie Modeling, and so there is the risk of a bad session. But usually there are ways to work it so that it turns out extremely well.

Trixxi,

Many of us are really taken by how well you write and by your powers of perception. It would be great if there were someway you could be put on the TUSCL payrole as a regular contributor.

Beyond that, I think of the examples of Suzy Bright ( author, sex educator, and porno movie reviewer ), Veronica Monet ( escort and sex educator ), Nina Hartley ( porn star, porn spokes person, MBOT stripper, and sex educator ), Annie Sprinkle ( porn star, sex educator ), and Catherine Texier ( prosex novelist ).

Maybe there is something some of us could do to help get you set up with an independent literary career?

SJG

Stones bing.com

SJG, no, there aren't any MPs in my neck of the woods. But I have been to some in a few cities -- Winnipeg, Minneapolis, Indianapolis, Vegas, and once in Dallas. The only time an attendant even got close to giddy was in Dallas. The vibe I got was they were expecting a really slow day and I was her first customer that afternoon.

Well, girls can start getting giddy once you get them out of their strict P4P service provider script. It also helps that she is in front of her friends. They get giddy real easy when they are in a group.

If they see a desirable guy is taking an especial interest in one of them, then they probably will start getting giddy.

Here in South Bay, at most of the AMPs they mostly do HJ and don't promote FS. But if they see that a guy is taking a special interest in one of them, then they know that he will want FS.

Women like to be charmed, courted, and moved upon. It doesn't have to be man handling. It just has to be a guy taking the initiative himself.

In P4P venues they know that they cannot expect this, but when it happens they love it all the more.

The girl shouldn't have to sell services or otherwise solicit. If the guy wants her he should be able to make it happen with her without ever saying a single word about sex acts.

SJG

That isn't giddiness because of the guy -- that's giddiness for some potential money...or laughter because the guy's such a geek...

@PhantomGeek,

Yes, life is often unfair. What women like to talk about is which one of them a guy likes. They do this when they all find the guy eligible. So the more women there are, the more likely that they are going to start getting giddy over a guy.

If one learns to play it right, it can work like this in places like AMPs, and in SC's too. Then of course the session will go beyond GFE, as she will turn it into GFA ( Girl Friend Audition ).

I'm sorry if you have never been on the receiving end of that. If you start reading and listening some, you might be able to change your fortunes with women. AMP's can be good places to learn, and so can SC's

SJG

SJG, I'm not delusional or desperate enough to deceive myself into believing I'm on the receiving end of that -- well, unless the women are pointing as they giggle, then I know.

When the girl is being egged on by her friends, and when they are all talking about the guy who likes her, then when the session goes down it is sweet beyond belief.

Whether you want to believe me or not is up to you.

SJG

I had a situation in Toledo Ohio one night where I had two shot girls, the only white girls in this club, sitting with me at my table in the back of the room. I sat in the middle and had one girl on each side of me. I didnt pay them anything but just kept buying them drink after drink until they were both good and drunk. We had a great time. I started out with my hands under the table stroking each of their clits very gently and affectionately stroking their thighs. Then I popped out Willy and they stroked him each of them giving me a hand job under the table. Then pretty soon in the dimly lit corner where we were seated one of them would drop under the table giving Willy a good sucking then the other would take a turn under the table until I finished in the left ones mouth with a swallow. It cost me nothing. Just a few drinks for each one and some playing with the clits and caressing of the thighs. Some sweet words in their ears, some DFK, and a few kisses on the neck. They wanted to play after a few drinks and I let them play. This is the way it can go if you are willing to be patient invest some time and drinks and treat the girls with special attention.

I'll wisely choose not to believe you, SJG.

Thank you Jestrite50. If you treat the girls nice and have learned how to talk with them, you can get it all front loaded. You can get it so that the girl(s) are eating out of your hand before you even consider paying back room session fees.

A guy posted a couple months back about going to an SC and finding no dancers on stage, but all of them sitting together talking. He was not happy about this and not happy because they were not trying to sell dances.

Well, the last thing you want to do is agree to a dance from one you have no rapport yet established with.

But the situation he was describing could be ideal. If they are sitting together, and especially if the music is stopped, you can just walk up to the group and introduce yourself to all of them together. You can tell them all the things women will want to know about a guy, but are prevented by the ethics of the situation from asking. Pretty soon you will find some of them coming after you.

In AMPs, once they know that a guy might like one of them, that will be all that they talk about. I spoke about this Taiwanese Angela, and "explosive GFE". Well she thought I was going to session with the boss. I'd done the boss about a month ago. I guess I got a good review.

So I was talking to the boss in the center of their lounging room. Angela was kind of spacing out sitting real sloppy in a chair. When she heard the boss call her in Chinese and then she saw me approaching and reaching out for her hand, she jumped up. We walked arm in arm squeezing together to the session room. As I reflect on this now, she was intending to let me fuck her bare back. Usually they take care of the money and the condom and the lube, before their clothes come off. They are very careful with where they keep that stuff. They would never keep it in the session room. So soon I was holding her up against the wall for gentle but purposeful DFKing. I pressed the precounted $100 friend price into her hand and she flung it back hand across the room. Then I made a gesture and her mini-dress went flying off in the same direction. She did all of this barely breaking eye contact with me. I removed her undergarments myself.

Some how without really thinking about it, just seeing the situation, me having lifted her up onto the massage table and she lying on her back using her hands on my cock and me giving her deep FIV, I pulled out a condom and handed it to her.

She couldn't have had one on her. They would never have had one hidden in the room. So I can only presume that she wanted BBFS. This would be consistent with her high voltage approach to the whole thing. But actually doing this was the furthest thing from my mind.

The problems in AMPs, and even more so in SC's, come about when guys let dancers sell them dances and get them to pay for use of special rooms, when there is no established rapport, when they have not first gotten under the girl's skin.

Jestrite50, you've also indicated another thing I've long talked about. The thing to do with waitresses is just to treat them like dancers. Be nice to them and then see how much fun you can have with them. Try to get them to sit with you or on you, and see what can happen.

About this Portland Aphrodite's Hot Lingerie Party, I have thought about it, inspired by some of Jestrite50's adventures and his generosity with the money, one could make work there with their women the same types of things which work in AMPs. One could use window shopping, flirtations with their women, plus sometimes just handing out some $20 tips as a show of good will, to get them giddy and get one of them to start making out with you in the front lobby, before you have paid the session fee. It can be made to work. You just have to be patient, willing to make a few visits, and able to keep it fun and playful for them.

SJG

Doug Henwood, the economic crisis youtube.com

SJG, I think a lot of these guys are shy and don't find it so easy to talk to girls. I've always found from the time I was a young boy that if you want something from a girl you have to tell her what you want. Don't hide in the shadows and hope that she notices you. You gotta be outgoing and tell them what you want . That you want what they have and not try to keep them guessing.

Agreed. Sometimes it's better to explain it to them in words. Other times it is better just to make it happen. But either way, I think SC's and AMP's should be places for learning how to interact with women. This is how they have worked for me. We are paying for it, so we should try to get something of lasting value. I think that is my main point here. I tried to explain this when I first joined, but I got dumped all over.

The first thing to learn though, is not to treat these women as prostitutes. I learned this from reading an article in Hustler, I think now it would be 30 years ago. It makes it so much easier for the girl to open up with you if she can really feel that you like her and you respect her.

Unfortunately I feel that many of these TUSCL posters really don't like the women they are handing money to. They see some as obelisks, and then some for paying to deliver extras. They have two categories and they contribute to their own sexual frustration. I am not like this, if I like a girl I like her. I don't rate her as second compared to another. And so I want to let her feel how much I like her.

Jestrite50, you posts continue to be a beacon of light.

Diva1975's new DFKing thread: tuscl.net

SJG

It Don't Come Easy youtube.com