I’ve been lurking here for a while and thought I should post something. My ATF likes to point out people (both dancers and customers) in the SC and say whether or not she thinks they’re sexually dominant or submissive. Apparently, she thinks most people in the SC environment are submissive - especially customers. She says she frequently has to be dominant with people, which she doesn’t like because she’s more comfortable being submissive.
So, I’m curious - PLs and dancers, which way do you go? Obviously there’s a lot of room between “dominant” and “submissive”, but which of these labels do you lean towards more?
For me it’s more about being proactive vs being laid back.
I tend to not be dominant nor aggressive but consider myself proactive – i.e. I generally like to sit back and have the girl approach me instead of me having to approach her; but during a dance; I’m def proactive in groping and anything else I can get away with.
w.r.t. dancers – I prefer them proactive rather than just laid back – I like them to initiate contact and touch me as much as I touch them – e.g. I love it during a dance when a dancer takes my hands and puts them on her boobs.
I don't see it as dominant or submissive but as participating or spectating. In the no-touch clubs, it's definitely spectating; in the hands-on clubs, it's as much as the agreed-upon boundaries will allow between the parties involved; and then there's the spectrum of everything in-between.
And it's really a matter of perspective, too. A few years ago, I went back for a couple bed dances with a very attractive dancer. Beforehand, she was pretty touchy, trying to hold my arm or my hand, pretty much not letting go, and the same after. When we were done, she said she enjoyed dominating me. Me, I took her actions as needy and clingy.
I'm not sure these terms apply as much to customers, since it is difficult to gauge dominance or submissiveness simply by their behavior in a bar. The loud, pushy, obnoxious customer who creates a spectacle is not showing dominance; he's just being a dick. The guy who sits in the corner, tips generously, and has a swarm of dancers hanging around all the time may be the truly dominant personality. It's much easier to pick out the doms and subs among dancers in a club, particularly if you are a regular and watch them interact with each other and the customers. The dominant dancer isn't the pushy, loud one; she's the one that moves gracefully between customers, deals patiently with new girls, and is solid with the bouncers and bartenders. Much like the dominant customer, she rarely makes a fuss and always knows where she needs to be. You don't get extras from her unless you earn them by tipping well and letting her lead. She might not be your ATF, but if she likes you and your ATF, she becomes a very handy ally when it comes to enjoying VIP's and other perks. She will send hot new girls your way and never be threatened if you don't get around to getting dances with her, though she will work to give you a chance, even if she is busy. As is usually the rule, if a girl says she's a dom, she's probably not. The true leaders are the ones who lead without being obvious about it.
"Lurking" less than 2 weeks, zero reviews, zero clubs. The best answer to your question can be gained by your experience, so get out there and experience.
My experience with clubs is limited to the Indianapolis, Louisville, Houston, Denver, Atlanta, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Sacramento, Orange County, Chicago, Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal, Berlin, Leipzig, and Frankfurt areas. I'll go get more experience before I ask any more questions.
If you got experience, feel free to share your thoughts. Clubber is reacting to past newbies with nothing to share except questions.
I agree with the assessment on customers is hard to determine. I bet in one club, the dancers would think I'm an alpha male dominating but in another club a quiet submissive guy. I don't know. I do get up and walk around a lot more than others. Some might think I can't stand to sit around and wait for something to happen. Dancers have confused me with all sorts of occupations from a cop to an artist. If a dancer really wants to know, well she can have sex and find out.
That is after I get to know her a little bit. I doubt I'm going to leave a strip club because some strange girl comes up to me and says she wants to go screw back at her place. I like to know name address and other information first. I'd feel even better if I didn't think she was a call girl or setting me up for a robbery. I had a girl do almost exactly that. I usually get at least a dance before trusting her. She wasn't even a dancer.
what exactly do they expect customers to do if strippers want them to be dominant. Pin them down and bounce them on their lap? If they want us to service them, then that's gonna cost them.
When I'm at an SC, I don't spend a lot of time sitting around wondering if other dudes are dominant or submissive. When it comes to dancers & being dominant, my feeling is that the vast majority of them talk the talk but don't (necessarily) walk the walk. I have the impression (right or wrong) that most women, including dancers, are more submissive than otherwise.
Then again, my ATF is into the whole BDSM thing, where the terms "dominant" and "submissive" take on slightly different meanings...
Dominant. But I think most strippers confuse dominant with abusive. I cosign on what Doc said. And let's face it, unless a guy is ready to get slapped with sexual harassment, we tend to try to be at well behaved, courteous, and they might think that submissive.
"My experience with clubs is limited to the Indianapolis, Louisville, Houston, Denver, Atlanta, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Sacramento, Orange County, Chicago, Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal, Berlin, Leipzig, and Frankfurt areas."
All that "experience" and he's asking us? Something doesn't quite seem right IMHO!
This gets into something I've talked about much and had originally tried to raise in response to Mr. LDK's postings before. I've never really gone along with the "extras" approach because it is based on quick male ejaculation and on the dancer doing something to you. Likewise, I've never gone along with the "extras" approach to FS either. It is something dancers have learned to do, via excessive reliance on girl on top and on using a high level of force, but zero psychological submission. Besides at SC's, they also do it like this in the Korean 10-day AAMPs.
It is a big deal for a woman to submit to FS with a man for the first time. This should not be underestimated. So when it happens, it is real sweet. But this "extras" approach to FS is not that, it is something entirely different. Based on statements made I believe that the dancers don't even consider "extras" FS as sex.
I know from those involved in dominance and submission, that 95% of the men who partake are submissives. They want a woman to dominate them and they are usually willing to pay for it.
Interesting movie about how men with worldly power often have a need to have a woman dominate them in private, and about a very likeable submissive call girl.
As far as SC's, of course it is easier for a dancer who has to deal with lots of total strangers per day if she can always keep the upper hand. So whereas lap dancing once meant a girl sitting on your lap for $1 per minute, now it means you paying upfront a much larger amount of money for an entire song, and a dancer standing over you and maintaining complete control. My willingness to partake in this has hence been limited.
So instead, my mongering experience has been in AMPs. I want the girl to submit to me. Now the usual procedure is for the girl to show you to the room and then direct you to take off your clothes, take a shower, and then lie face down on the table, and then to wait for her to return. I change this by manipulating the selection process upfront, so that instead of she just being the best looking girl available, it is now that she is the only reason I am even there. Then I talk, flirt, and get as physically friendly with her as possible, before we even get to the massage room. At the earliest possible opportunity, with my clothes still on, without ever touching the massage table, and possibly before even getting to the massage room or handing her the house fee, I start kissing her. Then I just keep holding her, keep talking to her, and keep kissing her, as she melts.
This does not always work, but if one learns how to do it, it usually does. I do it very nicely. These girls have an otherwise boring job. They are not expecting to be ravaged in this way, and so when it happens they just love it.
Of course I would never offer them money or otherwise try to negotiate them into sex acts. I just keep kissing her and talking to her and moving on her. Most of the time they remember to ask for the money, but not always. When they don't, I still make sure they get it anyway.
These places are not intending to offer GFE escort sessions. But when I can start it in this way what ensues is better than GFE. It is GFA, ( Girl Friend Audition ). The experience is unforgettable for both parties. About the only way it could be improved upon would be to take her home with me afterwards and continue. This is what she is going to want too.
I learned to push these situations as far as I could, and I have continued to do so. But as I learned to do this, I also saw that I needed to stop and instead try to make my marriage work. Try though I did, in the end, this failed and I am still trying to make sense of this and to sort through the wreckage.
About no touching SC's, that is the kind we have here in Santa Clara County. I like them just fine. For one thing, the experience is not that expensive. To push the experience it all comes down to talking, flirting, and sometimes talking dirty. One was telling me about how she liked to be put in mechanical restraints. I explained that I don't need to use such restraints. It's very easy to injure a girl if she is in such restraints. I can be much more assertive with her just by holding on to her wrists and getting some help from gravity. Sometimes the dirty talk can go quite far, because in a no touching SC, talking is all you can do. One once spotted me on the sidewalk and pulled her car over. She wanted our relationship from the SC to continue. I explained to her about talking dirty being something just for the SC. I wished I could have given her what she really wanted. If you learn how to talk to them in the no touching SC, you can get them eating right out of your hand.
This would not work in an expensive dance booth SC, because she would just respond to anything you say by inviting you to a pricey dance. No good. Waste of money in my opinion. Mostly all the booths and VIP Rooms in those places do is let the house take a bigger cut of the money, while limiting the mileage by keeping the dancer on top at all times.
Now of course at the most FS SC's, they can sit on your lap and try to get you to start making out with them, before heading to the VIP Room. This I have not experienced, but I plan to and I approve wholeheartedly.
To many people though simply accept dance invitations from dancers they have no established rapport with, and so they are not leading the situation. They are just letting the girl use them as an ATM machine, in my opinion. Need to take charge of the situation and select the girl yourself and the lead the interaction. Get her responding to you.
My ATF is both a submissive and a masochist - I think her definition of a “dominant” person is someone that will take control of her and hurt her in a way she finds sexually stimulating. So, I agree that at least some strippers equate dominance with abuse.
For instance, she was sitting with me last night and a waitress came over to ask if I wanted another drink. Before I could answer, my ATF said “he’ll buy me another drink”. So, I slapped her in the face and said “quit being a greedy bitch”. She slapped me back and told me to fuck off, so I slapped her again (harder) and said “you aren’t getting a drink”. Then she bit me on the chest so hard it left a sizable bruise. I grabbed her by the hair and pulled her onto my lap, took off her top, and bit her on the throat until she apologized. Then I bought her a drink.
Anyway, I enjoy this because she likes it and it’s a little dangerous (bouncers). But, I don’t consider it dominance - it’s just consensual abuse.
What? Dominance and Submission are role playing games. "Buy me a drink" is sometimes part of this. But you can't really hit each leave bruises, or bit someone on the neck. It is just supposed to be play.
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I tend to not be dominant nor aggressive but consider myself proactive – i.e. I generally like to sit back and have the girl approach me instead of me having to approach her; but during a dance; I’m def proactive in groping and anything else I can get away with.
w.r.t. dancers – I prefer them proactive rather than just laid back – I like them to initiate contact and touch me as much as I touch them – e.g. I love it during a dance when a dancer takes my hands and puts them on her boobs.
And it's really a matter of perspective, too. A few years ago, I went back for a couple bed dances with a very attractive dancer. Beforehand, she was pretty touchy, trying to hold my arm or my hand, pretty much not letting go, and the same after. When we were done, she said she enjoyed dominating me. Me, I took her actions as needy and clingy.
I agree with the assessment on customers is hard to determine. I bet in one club, the dancers would think I'm an alpha male dominating but in another club a quiet submissive guy. I don't know. I do get up and walk around a lot more than others. Some might think I can't stand to sit around and wait for something to happen. Dancers have confused me with all sorts of occupations from a cop to an artist. If a dancer really wants to know, well she can have sex and find out.
Don’t take it too personally – it’s just a bit of new guy hazing
http://youtu.be/TM4RtUo5s0g
trending #charlieallnut
Then again, my ATF is into the whole BDSM thing, where the terms "dominant" and "submissive" take on slightly different meanings...
All that "experience" and he's asking us? Something doesn't quite seem right IMHO!
It is a big deal for a woman to submit to FS with a man for the first time. This should not be underestimated. So when it happens, it is real sweet. But this "extras" approach to FS is not that, it is something entirely different. Based on statements made I believe that the dancers don't even consider "extras" FS as sex.
I know from those involved in dominance and submission, that 95% of the men who partake are submissives. They want a woman to dominate them and they are usually willing to pay for it.
Interesting movie about how men with worldly power often have a need to have a woman dominate them in private, and about a very likeable submissive call girl.
Tokyo Decadence, 1992
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0105622/?ref…
As far as SC's, of course it is easier for a dancer who has to deal with lots of total strangers per day if she can always keep the upper hand. So whereas lap dancing once meant a girl sitting on your lap for $1 per minute, now it means you paying upfront a much larger amount of money for an entire song, and a dancer standing over you and maintaining complete control. My willingness to partake in this has hence been limited.
Some lengthy discussion about the history:
https://www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=3…
So instead, my mongering experience has been in AMPs. I want the girl to submit to me. Now the usual procedure is for the girl to show you to the room and then direct you to take off your clothes, take a shower, and then lie face down on the table, and then to wait for her to return. I change this by manipulating the selection process upfront, so that instead of she just being the best looking girl available, it is now that she is the only reason I am even there. Then I talk, flirt, and get as physically friendly with her as possible, before we even get to the massage room. At the earliest possible opportunity, with my clothes still on, without ever touching the massage table, and possibly before even getting to the massage room or handing her the house fee, I start kissing her. Then I just keep holding her, keep talking to her, and keep kissing her, as she melts.
This does not always work, but if one learns how to do it, it usually does. I do it very nicely. These girls have an otherwise boring job. They are not expecting to be ravaged in this way, and so when it happens they just love it.
Of course I would never offer them money or otherwise try to negotiate them into sex acts. I just keep kissing her and talking to her and moving on her. Most of the time they remember to ask for the money, but not always. When they don't, I still make sure they get it anyway.
These places are not intending to offer GFE escort sessions. But when I can start it in this way what ensues is better than GFE. It is GFA, ( Girl Friend Audition ). The experience is unforgettable for both parties. About the only way it could be improved upon would be to take her home with me afterwards and continue. This is what she is going to want too.
Asian Cat Eye Makeup
http://s2.hubimg.com/u/7048441_f260.jpg
I learned to push these situations as far as I could, and I have continued to do so. But as I learned to do this, I also saw that I needed to stop and instead try to make my marriage work. Try though I did, in the end, this failed and I am still trying to make sense of this and to sort through the wreckage.
About no touching SC's, that is the kind we have here in Santa Clara County. I like them just fine. For one thing, the experience is not that expensive. To push the experience it all comes down to talking, flirting, and sometimes talking dirty. One was telling me about how she liked to be put in mechanical restraints. I explained that I don't need to use such restraints. It's very easy to injure a girl if she is in such restraints. I can be much more assertive with her just by holding on to her wrists and getting some help from gravity. Sometimes the dirty talk can go quite far, because in a no touching SC, talking is all you can do. One once spotted me on the sidewalk and pulled her car over. She wanted our relationship from the SC to continue. I explained to her about talking dirty being something just for the SC. I wished I could have given her what she really wanted. If you learn how to talk to them in the no touching SC, you can get them eating right out of your hand.
This would not work in an expensive dance booth SC, because she would just respond to anything you say by inviting you to a pricey dance. No good. Waste of money in my opinion. Mostly all the booths and VIP Rooms in those places do is let the house take a bigger cut of the money, while limiting the mileage by keeping the dancer on top at all times.
Now of course at the most FS SC's, they can sit on your lap and try to get you to start making out with them, before heading to the VIP Room. This I have not experienced, but I plan to and I approve wholeheartedly.
To many people though simply accept dance invitations from dancers they have no established rapport with, and so they are not leading the situation. They are just letting the girl use them as an ATM machine, in my opinion. Need to take charge of the situation and select the girl yourself and the lead the interaction. Get her responding to you.
https://sites.google.com/site/sjgportal/
SJG
Rainbow, Man On The Silver Mountain
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9nfVrusS…
For instance, she was sitting with me last night and a waitress came over to ask if I wanted another drink. Before I could answer, my ATF said “he’ll buy me another drink”. So, I slapped her in the face and said “quit being a greedy bitch”. She slapped me back and told me to fuck off, so I slapped her again (harder) and said “you aren’t getting a drink”. Then she bit me on the chest so hard it left a sizable bruise. I grabbed her by the hair and pulled her onto my lap, took off her top, and bit her on the throat until she apologized. Then I bought her a drink.
Anyway, I enjoy this because she likes it and it’s a little dangerous (bouncers). But, I don’t consider it dominance - it’s just consensual abuse.
SJG