Those who disaprove of adult entertainment:

What he said- an a little more. The whorehouses is all legal but you got to go about a hour or so over to the next county. Mostly a complex of big doublewides all connected- nothin real fancy. Mostly all fenced in- ring the bell an they letcha in. Some have bars-get you a drink and the whores line up- some places have 3 or 4- others have 12-15. Pick you a whore an go back to her room. Spend a couple hundred if your a regular or a lot more if they dont no you. Some of them whores aint all bad. But a lot of em aint worth the drive out there. DONT have them send a limo for you cause the driver expects a hell of a tip and will tell you-like $100+. Cabbies get the fare plus a cut of what you spend- so the whore will jack up the price to cover her cut to the cabbie. Drive yourself if your sober or expect to pay a shitload more than the locals.

Judas, what exactly are the brothels and what do they do there? Just curious...didn't know those were legal anywhere.

We even have'em here in LV. Nobody much cares out here. The ones I worry about are the damn liberal bastids from california movin here and wantin to tax everything in site. We got no income tax here and it needs to stay that way. You dont like it dont move here. But nobody cares about titty bars much. Hell we got the brothels over in the next county.

parodyman-->: I have no problem with strip clubs being legal. On the other hand I would up the stakes even higher: make prostitution legal and subject it to strict health regulations. Then we would see how well strip clubs fair when given some real competition.

On the other hand, I think that customers ought to have access to ACCURATE information about the true nature of strip clubs so they know what they are getting into. The strippers certainly aren't going to provide this information unless you can trick or bribe them into telling the truth.

Well I already did the tricking and the bribing so now I'll share my knowledge with others for free (at least till I ge bored). ;-)

Unfortunately customers are at a big disadvantage going into a strip club. The strippers already have an established community to draw upon (dressing room conversations) as to how best to scam customers. That and years of experience in the scamming business. The situations is approximately equivalent to a fishy tourist sitting down at table full of cheats playing poker in Vegas. The tourist needs access to accurate educational materials to avoid this!

Unfortunately the situation online is lopsided for reasons I've alluded to before:

a) stripperweb is incredibly censorous
b) those who disagree with the "strippers are wonderful" position don't have much motivation to stay and argue for their position. Why WON'T they just leave?
c) Some who know that strippers aren't wonderful do not have motivation to tell the truth because of financial interests. In fact their financial interests lie in advocating the opposite position.
d) ass-kissers dominate many forums. They think it gains them some redeemption or wins them favour with strippers. Almost too pathetic to beleive but if you don't beleive me just monitor stripperweb for a week and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Unfortunately the whole strip club mess probably stays the way it is until prostitution is legalized. Not this decade, that's for sure. Maybe the 2010s or 2020s (man I'll be an old fart by then).

Interesting conversation here...I like to here all the different viewpoints that people have. The one thing that drives me crazy though whenever there is a debate about moral and ethical issues, is that christians are usually generalized as "right wing" or "religious fanatics". I am a true believer in Jesus Christ, but I definately do not fit into the Jerry Fallwell group. If you are not a christian or have never tried walking that walk, then I'm sure it is easy to simply dismiss them as ignorant morons, but that doesn't show much intelligence in doing so. There are millions of christians who have varying opinions and worldviews that cannot simply be put into one box and labeled. I love Jesus AND strip clubs...what is so hard to understand about that? I'm sure I'm not the only one on this board who feels that way :)

Seems like we have a few on this board who do not approve of adult entertainment. [RL, davids you know who I'm talking about.]

By that logic only the perfect can criticize. We still have some race problems in this country, so I guess we shouldn't try to stop a genocide in Africa. That is one of the classical logical fallacies, alleging hypocracy for criticizing others. The very simple truth is that we don't sell children into prostitution, and I have no problem condeming any country or culture where that happens.

I tend to agree with most of what you say, but I think it's impossible to teach sex education, or probably anything else for that matter, without some personl bias creeping in. That would require teaching about sex without any mention of morality, which would make it essentiall a plumbing course and of little value. Seems to me for it to be effective you have to inject some value judgements about morality, and those are going to be different for each of us, whether some religious point of view is involved or not. That' what makes it such a difficult subject for public schools to broach.

Maybe before we venture out to fix the problems of the world we should tend to our own backyards. Children in this country are undereducated when it comes to sex and sexuality. [This is where the religous types fuck it up for everyone.] Even though I think that this should be done at home it is obvious that the parents are either afraid or unwilling to step up to the plate. So the burden of sexual education falls on the public school system. Not a big deal if they would stick to facts and leave personal bias out of it. But when does that ever happen? Until there are no more unwanted pregnancys or STDs here in the USA there is plenty for us to do at home.

It's difficult to make any meaningful comparisons with cultures that are radically different from our own, there are just too many differences across the board. And I don't think that comparisons to countries where there is a lot of poverty are at all meaningful. Whenever there is extreme poverty there is always sex of all types readily available for sale. What we consider to be children are commonly exploited in third-world countries. Childhood as we know it is a luxury that many countries can't afford.

To an extent you're wrong, but since they aren't reported as crimes in a lot of countries you are also right. Groping women on the subway in Japan is almost socially acceptable. The police certainly never bother with investivgating and most Japanese women know better than to cause a fuss. Also it is not uncommon for men to have 12 and 13 year old "mistresses". They buy them the latest fashions and gizmos for sex. I think I mentioned the Thai brothels filled with 13 year olds. We aren't even into the middle east with 13 year old girls essentially sold into "marriage". Iran is one of the places this happens the most. The mullah's have even come up with temporary contract marriages to make it all legit. Want to know one of the reasons the Taliban got popular in Afghanistan? They were willing to stand up to the warlords who were stealing little boys for sex slaves. It is a very sick world out there.

I think part of our problem is that we don't thrust enough responsibility onto so-called children early enough. I think it's ludicrous to treat 17 year-olds as children. I think we should lower the age of adulthood to 16 or less, like it used to be in every century prior to the 20th and still is in most parts of the world. Maybe 13 is too low but 18 is definately too high.

Regarding my previous comments about deviant sexual behavior, I don't know but I'm guessing that we have more problems with rape and sexual molesting of children than do most other so-called advanced countries that have a more relaxed approach to public nudity and early exposure to sex. Am I wrong?

At the risk of over simplification, I suggest we focus on maturity and the ability to handle things. Michigan used to issue an unrestricted driver's license at 16. Now it is a two step supervised process ending with the "full" license at 18. Drinking was lowered to 18 and taken back up to 21. Sex is wonderful. In most cases sex involves feelings of some kind and reactions to those feelings. Teens of a certain age may have the equipment, understand the mechanics and be eager to try. How do you protect them from being emotionally maniuplated and damaged by sexual activity before they are mature enough to handle all of it. So we clumsly draw a line and try to protect the children from sex, when we really should take the time teach them how to handle the emotions and feelings that they might encounter when they become sexually active. We hide sex behind a wall, hoping that children will not see it until they are ready, but no one teaches them how to get ready. Exposing a 13 year old to sex is like giving him or her a loaded gun. Yes, you can use it, but someone is bound to get hurt. But it could be said that a young teen, properly counseled, could handle sex and firearms with discipline and safety. Two forces in this world are too powerful to left in the hands of children or the immature--sex and air conditioning.

FONDL Fair point on the deviance. My point is that while we are tame by some countries standards we are absolute libertines by others. I don't think you can directly link our "hiding" sex to sexual deviency, and while I have no immediate stats, I'd be surprised if some of the countries with more lenient attitudes toward public displays of sex didn't have more serious problems. I read how in Japan there is a big market for under age girls. I doubt that is totally unrelated to the way they sexualize girls in a lot of the magazines and comics. Anyway, I think we agree a lot more than we disagree. I'm just a little more comfortable with some more social pressure to keep things a little more under wraps in public. I don't think there is anything unhealthy about that. We can still have sex ed and all that, but too often to me it looks as if the cultural elite (artists, movie producers, etc) and public schools have decided to pre-empt the parents and instruct kids in the "proper" attitudes about sex. I see absolutely no proof that this has been in any way a good thing. As for the church and its problems, well for one thing nobody in Europe goes to mass anymore! But seriously there are a few good books out there on the origins of the US church's problems. Much of it has to do with an overliberalization of the church in the US to try to remain popular. I think any organization based on supposedly eternal principles is going to run into trouble when they start cutting corners. In another sense it is because some priests started to see their first duty being to the church organization rather than the church in the sense of the people. They were therefore more interested in protecting the image of the church than protecting the congregation. As for the part about disagreements that was really aimed more at parodyman's opening salvo which implied that someone's disaproval was somehow violating his rights.

FONDL, if everyone was like you and found sex with hot looking girls they just met was boring and sad, I bet there would be a very ordered society. If I meet a hot looking girl and things progress rapidly, I certainly wouldn't think it was boring or sad.

Abbie, I don't mind you disagreeing with me, in fact a discussion where everyone agrees is pretty boring. But I never said that we lead the world in deviant sexual behavior, I just said we had a big problem with it, which is true. For example, has any other country had the problems with Catholic clergy that we've had? I honestly don't know but I'm of the opinion that the problem has been worse here.

I agree with you about growing up on a farm - I grew up in farm country and those farm kids sure knew a lot more about sex than the rest of us did. I think that's a lot healthier than the way sex is often protrayed in our TV and movies.

When I had sex education in high school it was basically a plumbing course with no discussion of values. I think sex education is appropriate at some age but certainly before kids generally become active. And I think it should include a values discussion, even if nobody is going to agree with each other. At least it will force kids to think, which in my opinion should be the main focus of education.

Hide sex from children? Wow. I know we're not Europe where they have topless lesbians in Orange Juice commercials in prime time, but look at the rest of the world... really. I'd also disagree that we lead the world in deviant sexual behavior. Ever seen Amsterdam's red light district? Heard about the Thai brothels that are stocked with 13 year olds? Read about any of the criminal prostitution rings that operate a virtual slave trade? Seen any Japanese Hentai? European S&M Porn? These things don't cater to an American market. We may hide the sex act, I don't even buy that, but sex, sexuality, and yes I agree, violence are virtually unavoidable in our country. Ever see an episode of Desperate Housewives? It used to be that it was impossible to hide sex because most kids grew up on farms. They knew very early on what was happening. Now they get their info from the rather twisted notions of what constitutes pop culture. I think they were better off figuring it out by watching the horses. I think it's clear we're not going to convince each other, or solve the worlds problems, but it was a nice diversion and some interesting conversation. I guess I was prompted because the "disaproval" of adult entertainment was likened to an assault on ones ears and "verbal terrorism". I'm sorry but none of us has the right to universal approval. It's fine for you to disapprove of those who you disagree with, but don't be offended by the fact that they may find you less than laudable. Criticism is not censorship, disaproval is not violence, and as long as you cherish the freedom to write what you want you have to put up with those who disagree with you.

I've said this a thousand times before and I'll say it again: I think that a society that thinks it's OK for children to watch people killing each other every night on TV but objects to children seeing nudity or people making love has really screwed up values. And when lovemaking is almost shown, there's usually violence or manipulation involved.

Here are the values I would suggest that make more sense: sex as an expression of love and friendship is a beautiful and wonderful thing; sex as a manipulative tool is wrong; sex as a recreational activity between people who barely know each other is boring and sad. I'd love to see those values taught in schools, at any age.

We are one of the few countries in the world that hide sex from children. We also have a huge problem with deviate sexual behavior of all types. I think there's a connection there.

JUst to put your mind at ease, I'm not the flame war type. It takes too much energy. As far as the "sex is dirty" comment I was being a bit flippant with that one. As for the sex-poverty link, it's pretty well doccumented. As for it's causual nature we may argue but it is clear that those who have children before marriage are far more likely to be poor than those who don't. I am certainly not saying sex is per se harmful, but as we agree we train our kids that there are certain socially acceptable parameters. Sex too early does seem to be harmful. As for sex ed, it's been in the schools for a lot longer than I've been alive, just in a different form. As we've tried to move it into a value neutral area, essentially assuming that kids were going to have sex and teaching them contraception it has certainly coincided with higher illegitimacy rates. As for Britney's stripper pole that was a slightly different but related topic of our culture oversexualizing kids way before they are readyand then being "horrified" at the results. One other thing to remember about the rise of VD etc. is that this also coincided with the baby boomers late teen and early adult years. After the "summer of love" etc. people all the sudden realized that some of their behaviours had consequences. My sympathies for the loss of your brother. My overall point is that we are not so wise as we would like to believe, and our ancestors and their traditions may have a nugget of wisdom in there somewhere. We should be careful before we tear them all down. Remember, just as humans evolve (if you believe in evolution) societies evolve too. We are a cooperative species, and to be able to live together we need to have some common norms of what is acceptable and what is not. We laugh at the simple superstitious people with all those silly religious prohibitions, but if everyone abstained from sex till married, and was monogamous after marriage, there would be no sexually transmitted disease. Now it is true that we have much better medicine and birth control than our predecessors, so abstinance and fidelity aren't as much a matter of life and death, although they still can be, but just maybe these traditions of sexual modesty served some purpose we have forgotten and will (or are) only re-discover as we overturn the traditions.

AbbieNormal…I have to disagree with you…and so, we’re straight about my next statement…this is not a personal insult to you…so don’t take it as such!

But considering “sex”…dirty (especially good sex)…well, in many regards suggest that sub-consciously that you’ve got some unresolved personal issues about sex. You might want to explore your thoughts with some professional help as to why that is.

Yes, you’re right we don’t defecate in public….but we do “Train” our children that there is a proper place to perform this function of life. As for sex…Why make it different? It’s just another biological function that requires Training and Social parameters instilled.

As for sex being the root of all evils concerning poverty…Well…that’s BS. And there is no historical evidence to support your claim. Also, there is no scientific data that supports your claim that Sex Education and the Illegitimacy Rate are interconnected.

News Article from another site:

“During the 1960s, the John Birch Society, an ultraconservative organization, pushed schools to eliminate sex education programs in classrooms, charging that the classes were “smut,” “immoral,” and “a filthy communist plot” to poison the minds of American children. By the end of the 1970s, only the District of Columbia and three states—Kentucky, Maryland, and New Jersey—required that sex education be taught in public schools. ((The decline in sex education programs in the 1970s was accompanied by a steady increase in the teen sex rate and out-of-wedlock births.)) When the AIDS epidemic began to expand its reach into America’s schools in the 1980s, parents and educators decided that they needed to teach their children about the realities of sex and disease. By December 1997, nineteen states and the District of Columbia required schools to teach sexuality education, and thirty-four states and the District of Columbia required instruction about HIV, AIDS, and other sexually transmitted diseases.

“In the mid-1990s, teen sex and illegitimacy became a focus of concern for conservatives who were trying to reform the welfare system. They charged that the welfare system rewarded premarital sex and out-of wedlock births by granting benefits to unwed mothers. The best way to reduce the welfare rolls, and therefore illegitimacy, they argued, was to emphasize abstinence-only sex education programs in schools. In 1996, Congress included in its welfare reform act a provision to encourage states to require abstinence-only sex education programs in their schools. Congress authorized grants of $250 million over five years to states that required school-based abstinence-only sex education programs. In addition, the five states that showed the largest drop in teen pregnancy without a corresponding increase in the abortion rate would split an additional $400 million.”

“Supporters of comprehensive sex education programs, in which students are taught about birth control methods and how to protect themselves against STDs, contend that abstinence-only programs are ineffective. Most schools with abstinence-only programs had not implemented the curriculum by 1995, they assert, so the programs cannot take credit for reducing the teen pregnancy rate. Furthermore, according to some sex educators, statistics show that more teens, not fewer, are having sex. The pregnancy rate has declined because more teens are using birth control, they maintain, not because fewer teens are having sex. In fact, birth control proponents point out that the number of teenagers who used condoms during their first sexual experience tripled between 1975 and 1995, from 18 percent to 54 percent.”

<<Additionally, I dare each one of you that reads this post to go to this link. And Discover what I’m truly “Bitching” about!!!!!!>>

http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/publica…

Finally…AbbieNormal, do understand I’m not bashing you…so please don’t take offense. I’ve lost a brother to Aids and my sister dropped out of high school as an unwed mother….and it wasn’t because of Sex Education or Brittany Spears Dressing as a Stripper. Our problems here in the United States are rooted in our conservative social beliefs that were founded long ago.

Read this time line to discover how your own thoughts have been molded through time.

http://www.neo-tech.com/history/

StripShopper, because it's more fun if it's dirty. Remember the old, saying sex isn't dirty, unless you're doing it right. Sure it's a natural act, but we don't defecate in public and we potty train kids. I really think that before a certain age sex is more likely to mess you up than just about anything else. You know what the three top indicators of poverty are? 1) Having children out of wedlock. 2) Marying before 21. 3) Not graduating high school. We've been doing sex ed at earlier and earlier ages but the illegitimacy rate has skyrocketed. I have no problem with sex or adult entertainment for adults, but do we really have to sacrafice kids to our notions of how life should be?

One Question AbbieNormal: Why must we associate sexual behavior as dirty?

And here's another Esoteric question: Why is sex so much more different than other human bodily functions such as: Drinking Water, Eating, Sleeping, Defecating, and just plain survival??? We teach our young about everything else...why not sex and what the social parameters are?

Don't you think Education is the clear path to unfucking this whole mess?

FONDL, Amen to that. I am willing to tolerate a certain amount of busybodieness from both the left and the right. I think elements of both sides go too far. I don't think abortion should be outlawed, but I also don't think a 13 year old, who can't get an aspirin from the school nurse without parental permission should be handed condoms in a public school, or be able to get an abortion without her parents even being notified. My point above is that I don't think it's a good idea for a society to encourage 12 and 13 year old girls to dress and act like strippers and hookers, and I'm willing to tolerate a certain pressure from the right against that. We make sex objects out of barely teen girls, and then are upset when someone with a less than firm grip on reality or his emotions acts on that. I know saying "it's for the children" is an old tired tactic, and we shouldn't have to organize society around it, but is it such a bad thing to keep in mind? I want my strippers, porn, booze and cigars, but I don't mind it if they are a little tougher to get.

I agree that people will see what they want to see. If those who oppose strip clubs were to go see one, they'd see exactly what they expected to see. The problem as I see it is that we live in a society of busybodies, where everyone thinks they have the right to tell everyone else how to live. The religious right isn't any different than the liberal left in that regard, they both want to impose their views on the rest of society. We can thank the media, especially TV, for creating this busybody syndrome, where everything that happens anywhere is everyone's business. The right to privacy disappeared long ago.

I believe if you believe you're going to have a bad time or not like it, your wish/vision has a much better chance of coming true. Therefore I don't recommend people try something they have a strong negative opinion of.

Well, I'm a big fan of adult entertainment (obviously), but I do think it should be a little harder to get. It used to be that to get a porn you had to go to the store and ask for a nudie magazine. Now all you need is a computer, which a lot of homes have, or a TV. When you consider that Britney Spears last two tours included a stripper pole on stage, well, let's just say maybe we're mainstreaming porn a little too much. It was always a hoot to see the stripper come out in the school girl outfit, but lately I've seen a few where it seems a little too true for my comfort. I think we sexualize kids way too young, and while I'm not for prohibition I do think adult entertainment should be a little more discrete than it is. Those that want it should be able to get it, and those who don't want to see it shouldn't have to. For gosh sake, the way it's going people won't even consider porn and strip clubs dirty within a few years, then they won't be any fun anymore.

Unfortunately....The "Right Wing" is actually getting stronger in this country. And now has a firm grasp in our political system.

I grew-up a few miles away from Jerry Falwell's establishment...and it continues to scare the shit out of me...how individuals can be brainwashed as a result of someone's personal crusade.

Though I'm a spiritual person...I sincerely believe that differing religious beliefs within our world will someday lead to our demise...To bad they all can't get a lap dance and chill out!

Amen, brother! ;-)