Classifying clubs and dancers

AN, thanks for the info but I don't get to DC anymore since I no longer work there. And if I did I'd head out to McDoogals or one of the other good MD clubs anyway, I like them a lot better than any of the DC clubs. Or I head out to Tyson's Corner for a budyrub. Ever try that?

FONDL, You are right, JP's is much friendlier and laid back, but the management there is known for being very dancer friendly, to the point where they won't fire dancers who have no buisness being on stage. The dancer quality there is very hit or miss, but nights are generally better. GoodGuys managment is known for being jerks, but they do exert some quality control (which had also been lacking in the past). GG's is a more "up" atmosphere, and you can be pretty sure you won't see a VERY unattractive dancer on stage. Try parking at the rec center parking lot (take a left from Wisconsin onto Calvert if you are heading south, it is the right turn at the end of Calvert.)

I guess I also could have mentioned that of my 5 favorites, 3 worked at both JP's and Good Guys at one time or another. It is very common for dancers to migrate back and forth. They leave Good Guys when they get pissed at management, then leave JP's when they don't make enough money. Word on the street is Good Guys acquired the Italian resturaunt next door and will expand.

I kinda liked JP'a the few times I was there. A much more intimate atmosphere than Good Guy's. I never wen to either very often though, too hard to find a place to park.

FONDL, some were at GoodGuys, some at JP's across the street. Those are the only two clubs I go to often enough to develop favorites. Never been to CCR. Heard some good things, but for the most part I'm lazy about clubbing. If I'm traveling and have nothing to do I'll seek it out. If I'm close to home I'll just go to my locals for a few beers and go home. Also, if LDs aren't in the cards, I at least want a good fully nude show, and GG's and JP's have always provided a decent amount of "incidental" contact, both on and off stage.

AN, I like your "reformed party girl" category. My most recent fave was one of those. She's now a full-time college student but still dancing. My ATF became one of those too, but not til after she quit dancing.

Did these girls all work at Good Guys? My ATF has an ex- friend who last I heard was working there. And another ex-friend who I hear works at Crystal City Restaurant. I thought CCR was the best of the DC-area clubs but that's not saying much. I never cared for Good Guys. I probably would have hung out at Camelot but I worked so close by that it was a little dancerous, so I usually drove to MD.

I meant to get back to this topic but never did. Here is a brief outline of my favorites over the years

Favorite 1. Single mom, dancing to pay the bills. Early twenties when I met her and was my favorite for years. Never met or had any OTC contact, although she did once say "we should go out some time." I asked her about it later, she was serious and I kind of blew that call. Don't think it would have worked anyway. I'm not crazy about kids, and I could see aspects of her personality that in an OTC relationship (where they weren't constrained by needing to please me) would have annoyed me greatly. She'd be the young single mom in almost every respect except the broken home. We never talked much about that. She still dances at my regular club, but we don't do much more than acknowledge each other's existance nowdays.

Favorite 2: Reformed party girl. By reformed I mean she'd given up hard drugs for weed and booze and was starting to get serious about life. She'd gone to college on an athletic scolarship, but was "taking a few semesters off". She danced to pay the bills, and kept it a secret from her family. Was probably the most popular girl in the club among the dancers. Genuinely sweet and open. Very athletic and great dancer. We never met OTC, although we would talk on the phone on occasion. Had saved enough money to move into a nice neighborhood and house with two other dancers when she died in a tragic accident.

Favorite 3; Part time dancer. Older, had a SO and a "straight" job, but liked the sexual thrills and extra money of dancing. Had been a pro at some time in the past for an extended period, but that was murcky. Great natural body and looks. I'd rate her a 10. Seemed to quit for months at a time only to come back. Last one seems permanent. She was always guarded about her past, probably because she saw (correctly) I had a MAJOR crush on her, although I knew the score. She'd call me at work or home to let me know when I should come in, and a few times to wish me happy birthday over the years. We did a few OTC things.

Favorite 4; Seasoned pro. She was a single mom, but had been dancing before that. Had flirted with the porn side of the industry, never went all the way though. Had done a lot of online stuff, bachelor parties, and was a great dancer. Enhanced and absolutely not my physical type, but she had the greatest personality and was really smart and fun to talk to. She quit dancing because the demands of her PhD program and internships didn't leave the time. Kept in contact OTC both while she was dancing and after for a few years. It just kind of petered out.

favorite 5; Party girl. Probably the best looking favorite. Great natural body, great dancer, did some modeling, and made more money than she knew what to do with. Dated a lot, and seemed to hint at being a "kept woman" for a brief period. She had the looks and charisma to ride the party girl thing well into her thirties, but she burned out at about 24 (after 5 years of dancing). Saw her a year or so later when she'd made the transition to waitress. We did some OTC things, kept in touch ITC and OTC, then she moved on. I have a lot of respect for her having the guts to walk away from the easy money and lifestyle.

Just curious, but where on my list of club classifications (feel free to add your own) would your favorite club fit?

Yoda, those names sound correct. And you're right, Centerfolds was fairly low contact but had really attractive girls. I had a lot of good times there, usually with college girls. I'd rather have that combination than high contact from a bunch of dogs. Nice place.

Shadowcat, I don't mean "LD factory" to be a derogatory term, I just think its an accurate description of places like Wagon Wheel and Showcase Theater in MD and Mons Venus in Tampa. These are little places where the only reason anyone goes there is for the laps - there's not much sitting around and talking, the stage dancing doesn't amount to much, there's little or no bar (around here they all seem to be BYOB), it's all about the laps. Contrast that with the neighborhood titty bars where most customers sit at the bar drinking and talking to the dancers and watching the stage show (the stage is usually inside the bar) but only a few customers partake of the LD's. There also seem to be a lot of clubs that lie halfway between these two extremes and I'm not sure what to call them but many of them fall into the "GC wannabe" category. They're places like Brad's in Indy and Cafe Risque in Bristol, PA. They're usually my favorite kind of place because they're usually not very expensive, they offer an opportunity to sit and talk to the ladies without much hustle, they have a nice mix of fairly attractive dancers of different types and a friendly atmosphere, and they have good laps and good contact.

Chitown, if you ever get to the Philly area, try Cafe Risque in Bristol, it's the closest thing to Brad's that I know of although it isn't quite as good.

The first place sounds like the old Centerfolds-it was torn down a few years ago for the rte 95 expansion project. Nice club but low contact. The place on 295 could have been Marios in Johnston- also closed now but in it's heyday it was a great club with very high contact levels.

I don't remember the names of the two Providence clubs I've been to. All I remember is that one of them was just off I-95 a little south of the center of town near a big hospital, had valet parking, topless upstairs and nude downstairs, and pretty fancy. The other place was west of town just off of I-295 and was a little less fancy and a little smaller but still fairly nice. I enjoyed them both although as I recall the second place had a little more contact but that may have been just the girl.

FONDL: The most well known club in Providence is the Foxy Lady-it's also the lamest. Club Fantasies, Cheaters and more recently the Cadillac Lounge are much more liberal with Cheaters actualy providing private "anything goes" booths. The Brazilian influx started about six or eight years ago with a trickle and has risen to the point where about 30% of the girls dancing in Provience are South American. In some clubs on some days the percentage is even higher. For the most part they are friendly, sexy as hell and very liberal in the PD department. However, dancers are dancers and there are some South Americans that are nothing but trouble. It's always buyer beware.

I remember the college girls but not the Brazilians, they must be fairly new. And it sounds like it's become a bit more liberal than when I was there last, which was probably nearly 10 years ago. Or maybe I went to the wrong places. But I always had a good time.

I guess there's no more interest in classifying girls, how about clubs? Here's my list: GC's, GC wannabee's, neighborhood titty bars, LD factories, whore houses. What am I missing? Maybe a separate category for total dives?

Incidently, Yoda, I do remember what one of my arguments was about on the pink site. I tried to make the point that GC's and the girls who work in them are a small part of the SC industry and that both were over-represented on the pink site. I couldn't figure out why that observation got some of the people there really upset.

Providence is a great SC town. The clubs are fairly liberal, there are tons of Brazilians and tons of college girls. Definitely something for everybody. I travel a lot for work and I seldom find an environment I enjoy more.

BTW, my classification scheme is only for American girls. I don't have enough experience with foreign dancers to know whether they are a separate category or what.

FONDL: I think that's one place where you and I will always differ. I don't even buy dances from American dancers any more much less party college girls. I like the women I choose to spend time and money on and I don't see myself changing types very soon. Every time I give-in and try an American girl I am disappointed. I don't deal with high pressure dancers at all. Being older and more seasoned does not automatically make you a high pressure type. It DOES make you smarter and more confident in yourself and your abilities to earn. Most of the South Americans I spend time with are thrilled and thankful to get one dance or ten. They are friendly, warm, intelligent and quite adventurous in the LD room. They also have a very different perspective on the world, on money, on being a woman and on sensuality than most American dancers. We all like what we like, that's the great thing about clubs. We get to go shopping for exactly what we want.

Yoda, I think that I'd probably like the South American dancers that you hang with, but I don't run into them around here. You're area is obviously very different from mine. But I do like the young girl-next-door types, whether college girls or party girls, if I can find ones with some intelligence. I used to find some really nice ones when I used to visit Providence - good club town.

Yoda, I think that's a good classification scheme, perhaps better than mine. And I guess I usually try to find the girls who are somewhat less motivated by money. If I had to rank my classifications by how motivated by money the my various types tend to be, I'd put the seasoned pros at the top followed by older single moms, younger single moms, college girls and finally at the bottom the party girls. That's also pretty much the reverse order that I list the categories in terms of desirability for me. But I usually end up with a college girl in a club because it's hard to find a party girl who is intelligent and who isn't too wacked out on drugs. If you've never tried a party girl I suggest you do so - they're often a lot of laughs and a lot of fun in the LD room. And low hustle.

FONDL: Right, and the money is WHY they are doing it. I don't go near party- girl early 20-somethings so I'm not going to argue your theory about them being interested in drugs as much as the money. Actually I think your assessment is accurate-it would also explain why so many young pretty dancers will spend all night sitting with a guy who has no money just because he is good looking. Up until a few years ago, a hottie could waste all night with no money guys and then hit the floor and earn a grand in the last hour before closing. Those days are gone in most clubs and the party girls seem to be changing clubs a lot trying to earn better money. The reality is they aren't motivated to hustle and that's the first thing you have to learn to be a successful dancer. I guess I would say there are two categories of dancers: Those who are serious about earning money-for whatever reason- and those who are not.

Yoda, why someone does someting is their motivation, that's the definition.

Money is a funny motivator - if you have more than enough to live the way you want to live, then the opportunity to earn additional money isn't a very good motivator. But if you don't have enough, then it's a pretty strong one. I think a lot of young dancers already earn more than they ever expected to, so making an extra buck doesn't mean much to them. My ATF was like that. Money wasn't at all important to her. For a lot of party girls, drugs are a much stronger motivator than is money. Which is why a lot of small-time dealers hang out in strip clubs.

But older ladies often don't earn as much as the younger ones and their needs may be greater (eg. kids) so they may be more willing to engage in additional activities for money. In addition, doing an extra may seem like a much bigger deal for a young girl who hasn't had that many different sexual partners, while it may seem like much less of a deal to an older woman who has had a lot more experiences and is maybe divorced a couple of times.

FONDL: I think your confusing WHY a particular individual may need the money with her motivation for dancing-which is to earn the money she needs.

My favorite regular extras ladies are a 46 year old with two kids including a daughter in college, a 26 year old with no kids and her own business outside of dancing, a 35 year old with no kids, 3 houses and a her ownbusiness and a 29 year old with one child living back in Brazil.

I should also mention that 3 of my favorite NON EXTRAS gilrs are in their mid 30's and have 2, 3 or 4 kids each with no support from the kid's fathers. Most of my other favs are in their late 20's or early thirties and many of them have at least one child-none give extras.

I agree that it's hard to classify dancers, or most anyone else for that matter, into groups. But I think it can be useful sometimes in describing and analyzing a situation. Virtually every dancer I've ever met falls into one of the categories that I mentioned.

Shadowcat, every married dancer who I've ever met fell into my "seasoned pro" category. A lot of them also end up being older single moms. And I agree that a lot of girls move from one category to another, or maybe fit into several at once (eg. a lot of college girls are also party girls.)

Yoda, I agree that they're all motivated by money but it's often much more complicated than that because there are other motivations as well. And to answer your question about the older single mom being more likely to provide extras, we might ask Shadowcat for his experience. He seem to prefer older dancers and also seems to like extras - are maybe the two related?

And to answer the initial question, my ATF was a party girl, and my description is very accurate of her at age 20. (She's not like that anymore - she was busted on a very serious drug charge, went to rehab and came back a very different person. One of the other girls she lived with spent a year in jail from the same incident, my ATF was fortunate to get a 3-year suspended sentence.)

The temporary is #2 on my all-time-fave list. The college girl is #3. She was tied for #2 but recent events have lowered her a bit. If I had to pick a #4 it would probably be the young single mom. The seasoned pro was up there for awhile but it ended badly, which is why I avoid seasoned pros. She turned out to be a real con artist.

What does the acronym GC stand for?

FONDL: OK, I'll play. Why would you expect to get extras from the single mom but not from the other two? BTW, just so you know where I'm coming from, In my opinion, the motivation for every type you mentioned is actualy the same. Money.

FONDL: My first guess was the Temporary Girl, too. Is it the Party Girl? Maybe I'm trying too hard to match details with stuff you've posted before.

Sorry about the length but I didn't know how to condense it. And Shadowcat, you are wrong. The college student is my most recent fave but not my ATF. Try again.

Anyway the point I was trying to make is that the motivations and behaviors of each of these girls is very different. For example, if I was looking for extras I'd head straight for the older single mom and would most definately avoid the college student and the seasoned pro.

I don't take the time to investigate dancers' personal histories, fake or real. I'll chat with them for however long it takes for the next song to start so she can start my dances. Usually, it's BS anyways.

FONDL, pretty close to mine, with minor revisions. I'll elaborate later.

got to be the temporary girl?

FONDL: Sorry, this is just to much to read....

Here are some of the dancers I have known and the category I assign them. The Party Girl was 20, been on her own since 14, alcoholic mother and absent father who never married, brothers on drugs and in and out of jail regularly. She shared a house with 3 other young dancers, worked at a little all-nude LD factory in her home town and made more money than she knew what to do with, and blew it all just as quickly as she got it. OTC meetings were possible if she liked you, not much motivated by money because she already made so much. She was high most of the time, life was one big party. Cute and very flirtatious, and surprisingly intelligent. Didn't have a BF, didn't want one. Very outgoing, loves meeting new people. A great lapper. Her mother had worked in the same club.

The Young Single Mom was very pretty and kind of shy, much more serious than the party girl, and a really nice person but not very intelligent. From a broken home, her mom babysat while she worked. I felt sorry for her because she'll still be dancing 10 years from now, probably in the same little dump. Really got offended when someone propositioned her. Enjoys dancing. Didn't like much touching so laps were kinda lame. Didn't have a BF and didn't date.

The College Student had started life as a party girl and dancer at 18, OD'd on drugs, got help, and now takes her future much more seriously. Came back to dancing in a fancy GC but only to make enough money to be a full time student. Enjoys dancing but doesn't much like interacting with customers. Most perfect dancer I've ever met but somewhat wary and cautious. And surprisingly shy when you get to know her. Alcoholic mother, broken home. Lives with a stable and educated BF. Loves to cuddle in the LD room.

The Seasoned Pro was about 30, gorgeous with the help of multiple surgeries, nothing she said about herself was true, including her "real" name, went to great lengths to keep her private and dancing lives as separate as possible, claimed to be divorced but was married to a military enlisted man, 10-year-old daughter, had the smooth con job down perfectly, worked as a touring featured dancer mostly in GCs but ended up in a little dump of a place because it paid well and the hours were very flexible. I always wondered who she really was, and I mostly felt sorry for her because she was so paranoid. Basically a nice person but did what she thought she had to do, a survivor. From a stable family in a very poor and rural area. Great laps, among the best ever but with rules.

The Older Single Mom was a really nice person and fun to be with, but not too bright and few job skills, she'd been dancing for a long time. Probably has a couple of teenagers at home and probably divorced but there's likely to be a BF somewhere around. Works in a local neighborhood titty bar where everybody knows your name. Very popular even though her looks aren't what they used to be. Very friendly in the basement makeshift LD area - there don't seem to be any rules - and probably available for OTC activities if you treat her nice and take the time to get to know her.

The Temporary Dancer was a beautiful young girl who was on an extended vacation in Key West, staying with an aunt and uncle, dancing temporarily to make some spending money, while she tried to get over a broken heart and decide what to do with her life. A really nice, kinda shy girl (if I'd have been 30 years younger and single ...) Loved to rollerblade and had the legs to prove it. Used her real name and told me all about herself on our first meeting.

These are all real people who I've known, and they pretty much represent the types of dancers who I've met over the years. Just about every dancer I've met falls into one of those categories. And as you can see they're as different from one another as possible. The only thing they had in common is that they were dancers. Some of them were favorites of mine. One is my ATF. Can you guess who?

I've spent most of my club time in Florida, mostly in Tampa and South Florida. I prefer getting lapdances from really attractive young women to getting extras from strippers. The clubs tend to be less glitzy with emphasis on dances rather than ambiance.

FONDL, a very valid and well made point. I tend to avoid the GCs for the more downscale or neighborhood type places, but I also don't really want extras. Just a personal comfort thing. I like high mileage, up to the point of petting the kitty (not poking). This most definitely influences my view of both dancers and clubs. There was a dancer at GoodGuys in DC who used to get your face wet (back in the bad old days). Sorry, but I don't know where that thing has been. It made me very uncomfortable and I started to avoid her. Other guys loved her. To borrow an applicable phrase, "different strokes for different folks."

FONDL: Yay! What do I win, a free massage? (From her, not you.)