Money
Seems like every time we talk about money we get some real differences of opinion here. I think you can tell an awful lot about a person from their attitudes about money. Some people don't care much about it and are really generous, others think it's the most important thing in the world and are really tight with a buck. Still others regard it with almost religious fervor or equate it with their ego. And I don't think it has much to do with how much you have, I've known very generous people who had little and rich people who wouldn't spend a dime, I'm sure you have too. But I do think some people's attitude changes as they get older, mine certainly. I used to worry about it a lot when I was raising a family. Now I'm at that stage in life where I don't have to worry about it very much, where I almost certainly will still have a positive net worth when I die, so what do I care? I spend what I have on anything that makes me happy. Including strippers. And I don't give a shit whether it's inside the club, outside or whatever, or whether she thinks she's taking advantage of me or what. I know what's going on, and if it makes me happy that's all that I care about. But that's me, you're probably different.
Got something to say?
Start your own discussion
33 comments
1. Financial obligations (bills, savings & investments, lifestyle maint., ect.)
2. Entertainment. (This is any cash I have left over and what ever I decide to do for fun, be it gambling, strip clubs, concerts or whatever I spend what I need to to have a good time. When I have a lot of money I play hard. When cash is tight I ease up but I allways have fun. And I never go cheap. If I can't afford it I don't do it.
For these reasons, I do not feel obligated to pay strippers for talking to me. As an analogy they do not charge each other to talk amongst themselves do they?
I've noticed that if you make friends with a stripper early enough on in her career she will often NEVER ask you for money or to buy dances from her although she will come around to visit when she is not visit. "Friends" is a relationship that some of them seem to desire. They also understand that it is not really compatible with one party paying for the "friendship".
Also, , it is my opinion that strippers are getting something out of their conversations with me to, so there is no need to further compensate them with cash. Likewise I don't feel guilty about going into SC with the explicit objectives of trying to PU or make friends with strippers, thus robbing them of their business oppurtunities as many here claim to worry about. If they become friends with/have sex with/or date me, then they will have benefited from that in a far greater proportion to whatever time they spent talking to me. I trust they are intelligent enough to know that equation, plug in the variables for themselves and see if it is a net positive expectation (in the probabilisitc sense) for them.
Finally, sometimes I notice that I sometimes get strippers into a "trance" state when they are talking to me. (They totally seem to forget they are work, are obvilious to what is going on around them including being called up on stage, etc...) In that case I will often remind that "well I know you're here to make money tonight, so..."
Chitown, I've been to clubs where the girls aren't allowed to ask, the customer has to do the asking. And in a lot of clubs the girls don't push private dances even when they're allowed to, again you almost always have to do the asking. I kinda like low-key places like that.
This reminds me of a thread I started a couple of months ago, after a dancer sat at my table, talked and talked, and never asked me if I wanted a dance. I finally broke down and did so. SHe said that IF THE CUSTOMER did not ask her for a dance after 5-10 minutes, she figured it wasn't going to happen. It was almost like a comedy routine, because I kept asking her to describe the best demographic for guys who get dances and spend money, and she kept describing me...but never did ask if I wanted a dance. SHe just felt that the customer should do the asking (by the way, she gave a dance that literally had me catching my breath for fifteen minutes after she was done. So you never can tell about the quiet ones....There was also a little intra-club rivalry that worked to my advantage...)
Maybe it's guys like me who put the P in PL. So be it.
FONDL, I do understand a bit where you are coming from now though.
Yoda,
I thought for sure the Cape club would have its Yoda "been there - done that" certification. I'm also amazed that my favorite club hadn't lost its Yoda certification to the club 3 miles further south. Happy Holidays
Truer words were never spoken.
As far as Greenpeace goes, I guess I just read too fast and went postal. If you want to read something funny, go to the google search engine using Internet Explorer and type in French victory, then click on I'm Feeling Lucky. :)
Incidently I meant to add to my earlier post: I mainly support local charities because I want to know where my money goes. I think that if a lot of people knew how their donations to national organizations were being spent they'd buy the putter or go to the strip club instead.
I also tend to over-pay service people who do a good job for me because (1) it's a tough way to make a living, and (2) I believe that you ultimately get better service that way. Strippers included.
But getting back to the issue of personal spending habits, I do have one dilemma: do I spring for the new putter or do I head for the strip club? That has to be one of life's thoghest decisions. I guess it all depends on what I want to wrap my hands around ...
Due to the happy and fortunate coincidence of practicing a relatively high income profession in an area with one of the lowest costs of living in the US, and having a frugal lifestyle, I have enough money that I can take five or six small and have a good time at a strip club once or twice a month, and not worry about my babies having milk. As I have said at various other places on this board, I truly believe that going to strip clubs has a net financial gain in my life, because it is one factor that allows a two-profession couple to stay married and continue to generate a healthy household income, and avoid the expenses of divorce court. It also provides me with some needed recreation to "recharge my batteries" for a return to the jurisprudential trenches. I do sometime wonder, however, if this prevents me from being as smart and savvy a stripclub consumer as I could be. I probably do overpay for dances, and even my ATF thinks that I overtip dancers. However, to me, counting out the lap dance fee in quarters, in an effort to make sure I wasn't leaving one on the table, would take away some of the pleasure of the experience. I see strip club patronage as a luxury good, and that's how I handle the experience. I know I spend more money than I have to, and I hope that is not to the disadvantage of anyone else. The best thing I can say in my defense is that I really don't go to sc's often enough to distort the market in any signficant way.
I don't have the Greenpeace v. Stripclub dilemma. My wife and I are very aggressive and intentional about giving at least 10% of our gross income to various causes.
Last week we had our annual sit-down with W-2s and financial statements to make sure we have kept pace for the current year. I do, however, agree with the Greenpeace comments above. Frequently, I'll be at a meeting or in a cafe in our little town, and someone will start to give the liberal view on ANWAR. I can usually shut them down just by asking how they got to the place where we are meeting. 90% of the time, the person will have driven there, and it will be someone who lives within a mile or two of our meeting place. I point out to them that if they are not willing to give up the luxury of driving short distances, they shouldn't begrudge efforts to get them gas to allow them to continue this luxury.
Personally, I never said I spend money in strip clubs because dancers deserve it. I do it because I deserve it.
I don't look at it any differently than a guy who plays golf, gambles, sails, goes fishing or whatever other hobby you can think of. Yes, the girls work hard and spending money in a SC certainly benefits them (it is their job and all) but I don't go in their to support them, I go to have a good time.
I don't see anyone here telling you how much you should spend on strippers.
As far as consumers spending top dollar in a strip club because the dancers deserve it I'll disagree as well. I believe the consumers deserve to keep their hard earned money. Maybe someone didn't work very hard for their money and feel like giving more of it away. That is their choice and I do not feel like they should be telling everyone else that they should be spending top dollar. I myself am already spending top dollar for lap dances at $10 to $15 per dance. I refuse to spend anything higher than that except in very unusual circumstances and only at one club that I occasionally visit. I think I may have spent more than that once about 2 or 3 YEARS ago. Maybe 10 years ago I spent more than that because the market in my area didn't offer anything lower and I was pretty carefree at that time. Saving money provides financial security for a rainy day and provides a source of income when we younger people expect to eventually retire 30 or so years from now. If I was a multi-millionaire, I might be carefree and retired already but since I'm not...
Many years ago I had an elderly neighbor who lived with his wife about a block away in a small old rundown house. Even though they owned a lot of land adjacent to their house which was becoming fairly valuable, we all assumed that they were fairly poor. When he died a few years later, he left an estate of more than $10 million, and his wife was as surprised as everyone else. She promptly built a large and beautiful house on the other end of their property. And shortly after moving in she died too. I think that's really sad, he deprived her all their lives because he was cheap and a hoarder. I think that hoarders are very sick people.
Money is totally useless until it's spent. If you don't want to spend it on yourself or those close to you, give it away. I don't believe in being a spendthrift, but to deny yourself and those around you, including the strippers you hang out with, is sick. If you're going to spend time with girls who are working, you should feel obligated to pay them a decent wage. If you don't you're cheating them, which makes you an asshole in my book. I think most of us here treat the ladies fairly.
In a market with perfect knowledge, there are neither producer nor consumer surpluses...all consumers are paying their "top dollar" for what they buy, and all producers are at the "bottom line" for what they sell.
THis is all a way of getting to my main question, which is....what are the consumer and producer surpluses in the sc market? At Favorite Club, laps are $10 a piece, and 1/2 hour VIPs are $50. I suspect that there is very little "producer surplus" here, because I doubt that many sellers of lap dances would go much lower than these prices. In fact, I have observed first hand how the market corrects itself under these circumstances, because a certain high demand dancer (personally known to some posters on this board) tells customers on the way to VIP that they will tip her another $X...in other words, the customer has to go above the posted "market price" to get to this particular dancer's bottom line. On the other hand, there is considerable consumer surplus, since most lap dance consumers (PLs) would pay more than these prices.
Last night I went to a club where dancers are $40.00. I suspect that this reflects little consumer surplus, since few customers will pay more than this amount...$40 is probably close to most customers' "top line." On the other hand, I am sure that some dancers will do the same dance for less, if given no other alternative. In fact, I know this is true, because some dancers will discount multiple dances.
If only I had known about strip clubs when doing my bachelor's thesis on labor market economics. It would have been a much more interesting paper, and I would have done a hell of a lot more original research.
SC: ometimes I get pissed at myself for not knowing when to walk away from a futile argument. I can dissagree with any other poster on this board and all it generates are some spirited debates. With Davids it always ends in insults being hurled. I should just ignore him but a davids post is like a train wreck for me...I just have to look...I've gotta work on that in 2006....
On this, we are not different. Well said!
While you seem to go to strip clubs and attempt to gain the respect of the dancers, I go for solely for entertainment. After dealing with the stress of work and life in general, I sometimes need to blow off a little steam and this is one of my perferred methods. Whether or not the dancers respect me, couldn't matter to me in the least as long as they provide me with the services I've paid for. You need to lighten up a little bit and enjoy the SC scene for what it is because it sounds to me like you must have a terrible time each time you visit. Especially trying so hard to gain strippers respect. I'm still trying to figure out why you and RL even go to strip clubs when you seem to hold the whole environment in such contempt. So I need to ask, why do you waste your time there?
A: Your full of crap
B: Why don't you stop going to clubs and send all of the money you save to Greenpeace or something.
a) strippers are less respectful of those regularly spending mone. They think such customers are pathetic losers
b) if you really have that much money to burn and don't care about, there are plenty of good charities in the world where your money is going to do alot better than giving it to strippers who will probably just waste it on drugs and frivilous shopping.
That being said, with strippers, I have learned that the very fact that money is changing hands inevitably affects the experience, and there's always a point at which inordinate spending begins to result in less fun. There's no simple answer to where that point is. It's a moving target that's different for everybody. While I don't think about it much while I'm having my fun, to just dismiss its presence and say la-di-da, it's all good, is as warped as being boorishly cheap.