Worst clip joint you've ever been in?

Some of the clip joints in Soho I was warned about 25 years ago are still in operation, and the ones in New Orleans that were finally shut down in the 70s or 80s dated back to Prohibition. They never run out of people to scam because they lure in tourists. They usually get away with it because their marks are too embarrassed to file a complaint. The reasons they don't get shut down sooner by authorities probably include bribery.

Casualguy said: "It's no wonder if such places exist, they go out of business fast. Apparently they run out of people to scam." No, sorry, I'm gonna disagree here. The true clip joint I listed above, is still in business after a good solid decade of clipping. Maybe because they're on the interstate, they don't run out of people to scam. But high-priced low-service strippers (and escorts, etc. etc., anyone in a business field that is grey- or black-market) NEVER run out of victims. Cf. P.T. Barnum ...

Chandler, I've never seen nor heard of any such places and I've been to a very large number of clubs all over the country. So I think that's a pretty narrow and not very useful definition of a "clip joint."

FONDL: That's why I wrote *actual* clip joints and why I explained that they are rare and opened it up for the next closest thing in my original question. In my opinion, saying any gentleman's club is a clip joint is not a useful definition. Yes, they have higher prices than dives, but I don't think the Midwest is the only area where they run the gamut just like dives do.

If you use the definition of clip joint as a place that comes up with phony charges and they make you pay or else they threaten you with bodily harm, how do they stay in business? I'd be teaming up with everyone to get that place shut down if I ran into a place like that and prosecute the people as well for robbing me. Those kind of people should be doing jail time instead of robbing people because they walked through their door. Maybe the phony charges statement is exaggerated, I don't know.

When you think of clip joint as one that has phony charges ( I read more of this thread now) you are stating that you paid for services that were not rendered is what I think you are referring to. You had to pay big anyway for nothing. It's no wonder if such places exist, they go out of business fast. Apparently they run out of people to scam.
Sorry about skipping over a lot of the thread. I just read the last part about being charged phony charges.

FONDL: At the gentlemen's clubs I know of, regardless of the details of their charges, you always have the option of saying no thanks and walking out the door. At an actual clip joint, you're told you can't leave without paying hundreds of dollars in phony charges, or they'll break your arm.

Chandler, I think the term "gentlemen's club" means very different things in different parts of the country. To me it's the king of place where you have to pay someone to park your car, someone else to walk in the door, someone else to take a leak, a beer costs $7 or so, every girl expects a tip just for being there and if you want to buy her a drink it's at least $10 for a thimble full of soda, and if you want a private dance it's $200 plus just to go into the room and then she asks for a tip before she starts to dance. You can't even go into such a place for a beer without dropping $50 plus. That's what I call a clip joint. As I recall you're from the Midwest and I don't believe that fancy clubs are like that in your area. But they sure are in some other areas, especially in some parts of the Northeast. Where I'm from if it's a GC it's also a clip joint.

If an ordinary gentleman's club is the worst you've seen, you should just be glad you've never experience an actual clip joint.

Token: I disagree. If you know the proper Tampa lingerie shacks to visit, you can get full service in the $150 range from very hot women, complete with DFK and other ancillaries. Strip clubs are a much more expensive proposition for those activities, usually; but it does depend on the city and the local arrangements, so Tampa's system certainly doesn't transfer across the country.

Sounds like we are talking lingerie places here. I have had only 2 experiences, both bad. First one was in Tampa maybe 20 years ago that included no touching, her on a stage 5-6 feet away and a cheap kitchen timer ticking away. It turned out to be self serve only.
The second time, Tampa, about 6-7 years ago, ended up spending $90 for a "handshake."
Strip clubs a much better bang for the $

Good point! If they're trying to show some kind of "high end" arrangement then you're almost guaranteed that most of the women, and many of the official arrangements of the management, will be misleading you by SUGGESTING a certain level of service that you don't end up getting even when you pay even MORE than the stated price for it.

Shot Disc, I agree. Most GCs are grossly overpriced and the girls who work in them are often real hustlers.

Any "Gentleman's Club" I have ever been in. Places like The DollHouse in Raleigh NC or any club in Orlando

I was in a small strip club near Albany, NY, years ago and I asked one of the dancers if there were any private dances. She said yes but I had to go next door to a separate building. Which turned out to be an experience very similar to that described by DougS. It too was a rip-off, although with a different girl it might not have been, hard to tell.

For "jack shacks" you HAVE TO check the internet reviews and really assure yourself of the GIRL and the PLACE, both, before going; or else you'll end up being expected to provide "self relief" while she watches, as you found out.

When I lived in Tampa 4 years ago and more, there were plenty of places that did not provide disappointing experiences, and were much more along the lines of "giving you what you think you're paying for." Depends on the city and the decade ...

DougS, that sounds like a clip joint but it isn't a strip joint, it's more commonly called a modeling studio or jack shack.

AN, I agree, I wouldn't call Archibald's a clip joint either, in fact I used to go there fairly regularly. It's not a bad place to grab a beer and I knew a girl who worked there, I wouldn't be surprised if she's still there.

I wouldn't consider Archibald's a clip joint, a dissapointment most of the time certainly, but not a clip joint in my recolection.

Minnow: Arrggh.. I knew that I was being too wordy, so I cut out a paragraph, which happened to be the name of the club. It was Ladies en Confidente in Denver.

Probably the same owners.

Bookguy: Cafe Risque building setup is similar to Cafe Erotica off of I-75 in Byron,GA. They have the buzz in buzz out feature as well. I haven't had an real complaints with them other than lately they could hire better looking dancers. They have always offered contact during their lapdances, but the customer has to keep his hands behind his head. The use to have the straps restrainst but have taken them out over the past few years.

FONDL, agreed. The issue of semantics aside (what DOES a technically accurate use of "to clip" constitute?) I think there are some clubs where you get what you expect, and some clubs where you have to be on your guard. Again, I reiterate, it's the misleading that I dislike.

Minnow's story was worth it for the potted plant detail alone.

Minnow -- sounds to me like you weren't CLIPPED as much as SUCKERED. You fell for the concept of "thinking with the little head," which is behind all "heavy-handed" salesmanship -- trying to get the customer to be emotional rather than logical. I'm all for presenting those experiences as negative, don't get me wrong. I'd love for there to be reviews that make it clear that people can easily get SUCKERED, but as this thread kind of makes clear, there's a difference between SUCKERING and CLIPPING.

In fact, the current modus operandi at the Brass Rail on Yonge Street in Toronto is to modulate between suckering and clipping depending on the susceptibility of the customer. The girl sits with you implying that her attentions are "free," but then later the waitress bills you for her time. If you complain weakly and meekly, they send over the bouncer and demand the money. If you complain vociferouslyl, they "let" you get away with "only" paying the mandatory price FROM THEN ON OUT. Obviously, as the girl sits there unhappily, many a customer will feel that he should "owe" her a dance or two. Even if he resists getting CLIPPED, he still gets SUCKERED.

Well, my worst 1 happened over 20 yrs ago, and place has long been out of business. It was on main drag (Federal Hwy) in Ft Lauderdale. Place was nude, but had very infrequent stage shows. But they did have frequent covey of dancers plopping down next to you, rubbing against you like a cat in heat, trying to talk you into (with waitress chiming in) of buying a bottle of champagne for a fun intimate time on the back couches. Bottle was $40-$50, I think. After blowing off 1st 2 dancers, I fell for 3rd who seemed just a bit hotter, more conversational, less superficial. Well, I bought bottle, adjourned to couch, and started to get some satisfactory action. Trouble was, waitress was back probably 5-7 min. later asking if I wished to buy another bottle. Wanting to keep a good thing going, I relented. As things progressed, I happened to catch dancer surreptitiously pouring contents of bottle in nearby potted plant. I asked her about that, got no reply- decided enough was enough right there. Having waitress come by asking for another drink purchase ripped it- I departed, never to return. Basically dropped $100 ($200 in todays money for 10- 14 minutes of 2nd, maybe borderline3rd base action that got annoyingly interrupted 3 times. Place was all about emptying ones wallet in minimum time & effort. Fast forward to early 90's: A new nude club opened near San Antonio airport. Cover charge required buying 2 drinks upfront. Within a short period of time, the unpleasant traits of FL club (Poor stage lighting, nonexistent stage show, BUT frequent pressure to buy a bottle of champagne for some fun in the back) made me decide to bail, and go to nearby "legit" topless club. When I returned 9 mos later, clip joint was out of business. In todays stripclub paradigm, there are various shadings of clipping the customer, while simultaneously doing legit activity. I'm very leery of packages and schemes requiring large upfront payment prior to delivery of services. Once "they" have your $$$, why should they bust their ass to please you? Are you gonna go to "authorities" and squawk about not getting to feel a dancers tits for 30 - 60 mins?? What then, lack of PTK, HJ, BJ, etc.?? Don't buy anything without test drive of some sort. Without splitting hairs too much about definition of clip joint, it still comes down to "buyer beware". Also, word of mouth, or keystroke can be effective.

Book Guy: I'm not disputing that that was a clip joint you described. I think the term gets loosely applied nowadays because the real thing has practically disappeared. The first I heard of clip joints was being warned about the ones in Soho when I stayed in London years ago, long before I ever ventured into a strip club. Basically, they exist for the sole purpose of defrauding unsuspecting customers and extorting hundeds of dollars (or pounds) from them. One of their tricks is to print their actual prices on a menu card in an ink that can't be read in candlelight. Then, when the cops come around, they turn up the room lights so they can point out where it says hostess drinks cost 500 pounds.

I heard recently that London prosecutors are finally getting around to shutting them down. In the US, I've heard that this type of clip joint was common in many cities during Prohibition. The last of them were in New Orleans and a couple other places. However, similar scams like Club Risque are bound to pop up. People call any business that misleads customers or charges high prices a clip joint, but really that's hyperbole.

Chandler, by your definition, Cafe Risque in Micanopy is indeed running a true clip-joint scam. I think it bears repeating. :)

FONDL, your point about them "all" being clip joints is interesting. I think the thing that I dislike the most, is simply being misled. When Christie's took my cover charge and THEN ('psych! surprise!') informed me that there would be a minimum number of drinks I would have to buy BEFORE entering the club, I felt misled. (In fact, so much so that I sneakily offered to take my cover-charge of six $1 bills back so that I could offer a $20, ostensibly so that I would be able to break it, save the $1s, and still have enough for the first drink out of the $20; but then when I got the cover back I just left the foyer in a huff!)

Proper way for a club to behave:
Patron: wassup.
Door girl: there's a $5 cover charge and a one-drink minimum. You have to get your first drink from her over there (point).
Patron: OK.

Improper way:
Patron: wassup.
Door girl: $5 cover. Gimme a tip.
Patron: here. (He walks into club.)
THEN
Door girl: oh, you have to buy three drinks at $6.50 each now outside before going in. And a t-shirt. Oh, and you have to tip me or I won't unlock the door. ROSCOE! He's being mean! He refuses to buy the minimum drink.

etc. etc.

It's the MISLEADING that I don't want. I am probably willing to spend $10 per drink if I think it's worth it. But not if they advertise that the drink cost is $2 and then charge me $10. Same with cover, drink minimums, lap dance charges, anything. I went into one club and found out, after sitting around for about thirty minutes, that there was supposedly a "DJ charge" and that for every song that I had heard I owed him a buck. Fuggoffff ....

I think this is a hard question to answer because the clipping is more often done by specific dancers than by the club itself. In a sense nearly all clubs are clip joints because they're mostly overpriced and most have gimmicks to raise a few extra bucks and some girls who try to rip you off. But in another sense one could argue that most clubs are not clip joints because we go there voluntarily and have a choice how much we want to spend, so presumably we wouldn't be spending much unless we thought it was worth the money.

I remember one little place near Albany NY years ago where I asked a girl how much for a private dance, she said $20, I handed her the money and we went into the LD room, where she immediately said I had to give her a tip up front if I wanted her to take anything off or have any contact, and "the bigger the tip the better the dance." I declined and got a fully clothed air dance. But later that same evenng in the same club I met another girl at the bar who gave me several wonderful dances without ever asking for a tip. Seems to me that nearly every club has a few girls who will try to clip you and others who won't.

FONDL: Actually, a clip joint has a pretty specific meaning, which I broadly described. Every girl, and everybody on the staff would need to be in on it. However, realizing clip joints are supposedly no longer allowed in this country, I opened up the topic for the next closest thing, or clubs that practice some aspect of "clipping".

That's a good one, Book Guy. I would think the buzz out feature would violate fire codes, just for starters.

The closest thing to a clip joint I've been aware of are Champagne Rooms I've read about with continuous upsell. However, they only fit the "nothing deliered" part of a clip joint.

Cafe Risque (TUSCL ID 2124) in Micanopy, North Central Florida, on Interstate 75. Absolutely illegal evil money stealers. Not just "money grubbing," but actually deliberately THIEVES. Would make ol' Fagin proud.

It's an old truck stop turned into a diner with non-contact dances available in back. There are a hundred little "tricks" by which they get extra money -- all the usual suspects -- not telling you about the two drink minimum (even if you ask) until after you've paid for cover entry; high-priced sodas; charging you for icewater without telling you; charging you for napkins without telling you; charging you for "free" refills you didn't ask for; charging you for restroom use; running up odd indeciperhables on your bill; and ... this ought to be the kicker ...

LOCKING YOU IN UNTIL YOU PAY.

They have a "buzz in buzz out" metal grate at the doorway. Makes 'em look like really classy businessmen, no?

My first visit, I "went to the restroom" and then bolted out the emergency exit, setting off the alarm. Nobody chased me.

The women aren't all that bad, here. And the food was diner normal. The "private" dances are a non-contact set up. They don't tell you that, either. They call it a "lap dance" but the dancer stays at least five feet away, and your hands have to stay in the straps on a "restraining bar." She air-dances, spins for you, nowhere near your lap, but they call it "lap dance." "Wanna lap dance, sweetie?" "Will you sit in my lap?" "Yes." By which she means, "No."

Its not a fair or even decent exchange of money-for-product or money-for-service in any way. More important, it's not the exchange of money-for-anything THAT YOU WERE TOLD YOU WOULD GET.

In the TUSCL reviews section, there are a lot of shill posts about this place, very positive reviews from people who otherwise haven't said a peep about anything elsewhere. I've been inside Cafe Risque three times, the latter two merely to confirm my suspicions for benefit of the TUSCL community, and well-armed with no cash and only a credit card so they couldn't over-charge me. I'll stake my TUSCL reputation on this one. DO NOT GO. THEY WILL STEAL FROM YOU.

The layout of the place, and the "set up," makes it pretty clear that it's run by something like the "local posse" of state troopers, or the county sherriff, or something, and that any form of pressure from the town (which is, largely, a poor African American community and / or the unpopulated lands of the interstate corridor) would have no effect.

Blight on strip clubbing in America, Cafe Risque in Micanopy Florida. Close it down. SHILLS AND CLIPS. Period. End of story.

Doug: Where was your clip joint, and is it still in business, afayk??

I think my experience should be more on the lines of "biggest disappointment", rather than clip joint, however there WAS a little element of underhandedness (I think I made that word up). Of course I was suckered, too - and I thought I was going to be suckled.

First, you have to "ring in" to get into the place, which was very seedy looking and hidden in an industrial park. I was greeted by the "hostess" who was a matronly and not very attractive woman of about 50. I was told the cost, which I believe was $70/30 min, $120/hr. and was given the rules, which was basically that you went to a private room and could get as "comfortable" as you wanted with the dancer of your choice, the dancer would be nude and you could "negotiate" touching, etc. To ME that sounded good, and I thought I was in for a real good time.

I asked how I chose the girl, and was told that they would parade the girls in front of me, and I would be able to pick ANY girl that I liked. She pointed to the wall around the corner from where she'd seated me, that contained about 30 pictures of the girls. Yowza, there were some hotties, the worst one was probably a 7, so I was sold with the concept.

The clincher was, you have to pay up front, including any tip that you plan to give. WHAT?! She stated that the more you tip, the better the "service" will be. The proverbial little head became very vocal during the quick internal debate that went on, and thinking back on the pics - especially the sssmokin' brunette whose pic was burned into my memory - I plopped down $110.00. I "cleaverly" came up with that amount by remembering how much was in my wallet, subtracting out some money for the "negotiations" that I was told would happen in the back with my girl. Thankfully, I didn't have a big wad (err, poor choice of words) in my wallet.

The parade of girls amounted to three girls, all of which were 6s, at best. I asked the "hostess" what happened to the girls on the wall, and she told me that these were the only girls available at the moment. She said that I COULD wait around for another girl to be available, but it could take a while. She claimed that the other girls working that night were all on the wall. I asked if I could get my money back, and was told no, so I opted to wait. Forty-five minutes passed, and I inquired about the status of the hotties and was told that they were all doing multiple sessions in a row and it could "be awhile".

It was getting late, so I chose Miss Six, and hoped for the best. The first 10 minutes of my 30min session were spent waiting on the girl to enter the room. I was told to get comfortable and enjoy the porn that was playing on the TV, in the meantime. She FINALLY arrived, and it took another 5 minutes for her to strip on the small stage clear on the other side of the room. She finally made it to the couch, naked, and started dancing about 3 feet away from me.

"can't you dance closer?" - "you have to tip more for that". So I plunked down another $20. She then stood on the couch and straddled me, giving me a good view of the kitty and all. "can I touch?" - "no" - "I'll give you another $20!" - to which she laughed. "$40? $60?" - "no no". She then tells me that all of their clients finish off with some self-service action and she'd be more than happy to watch. I wasn't really into doing that - and looking at the timer that was running, I just had about 4 minutes left, so I asked her to play with herself. "no"

At that point, I stood up and told her that I'd had enough "fun", got dressed (yeah, I had gotten "comfortable") and left.

I think I was more pissed at myself than Lec.

Archibald's in Washington, DC

I tend to think of "clipping" as having two different possible interpretations. Strictly speaking, to me it means places and girls who use highly deceptive practices to separate customers from their money. But I also think of a place that's grossly overpriced as a clip joint, even if there is no deception other than the typical dancer hustle. I think most clubs have some girls who try to use highly deceptive practices, eg. promising a lot more than they intend to deliver. But I don't think most places are very deceptive, some are just expensive. Which is why I say that dancers, not the club, usually make a place a clip joint in most cases.