To cover or not to cover, that is the question

I think you have a very loose interpretation of the phrase of "not completely safe" haha. I would never ever do what you are doing bc I have a wife that would be exposed to whatever I brought home from the otc, and bc it is very much not safe sex. #1 and #3 aren't helping you avoid hpv, hsv, hiv in the slightest. That said, we are all grown ups and make our own choices. It's also certainly not our job to police or inform a sw's safe sex choices.

A number of PLs here mention that they are unconcerned about stds bc of their "stage of life", the implication being that they are old enough that they don't have wives to disappoint, young families to embarrass, or even don't have long to live so "what the heck". Thats a bit dark, but I get it.

For the moment, I don't have a problem getting off while wearing a condom, rather the opposite in fact.... condoms help me last longer. I imagine that will change with time. I also never anticipated paying for sex. When I was younger, I got sex in all the traditional ways: girlfriends and hookups, then from a horny young wife, then from swingers and loose women in their mid life. Now that I am in in my 50's, I must increasingly buy pussy from sw's. I suspect that at some point that will be the only source. So, maybe I'll see things your way in another 20 years.

Thanks for sharing this article.

Your precautions should be helpful. However, look at STD spread from the standpoint of the disease organism. It wants to spread as quickly and widely as possible. Thus, to the extent behavior like yours is common, there will be selection pressure for a disease to evolve into an asymptomatically transmissible form. STDs that can sometimes infect in this manner include HIV, herpes, HPV, hepatitis, chlamydia, gonorrhea and trichomoniasis.

Consider that while your risk is proportional to the number of partners with whom you have unprotected contact, the risk to society in general from your behavior goes up exponentially with the number of such partners (because anyone you might infect can then infect others).

Vaccines are available for hepatitis A & B as well as HPV. Testing is available for HIV (types 1 & 2), herpes (1 & 2), hepatitis (A, B & C), chlamydia, gonorrhea, trichomoniasis, syphilis and cervical HPV. Note, however, there is no test for oral HPV or male genital HPV.

Regarding DATY (an activity that has been celebrated elsewhere recently), let's take the example of HPV-associated head and neck cancer.

Oral HPV infection is detected in 3–5% of adolescents and 5–10% of adults. The risk of HPV-derived head and neck cancer increases 5-fold in those with six or more oral sex partners compared with those who haven't had oral sex.

The average age of onset with this is 40-55, and white males are the demographic at greatest risk (women are more likely to have an HPV infection of the genitals than men). Between 2001 and 2017, the average yearly increase in HPV-driven oropharyngeal cancer in U.S. males was 2.7% (1.027 raised to the 16th power is a 53% increase.)

HPV vaccination should provide substantial protection. However, HPV vaccination rates have been too low to reduce disease transmission. Future decades are expected to see a continuing increase in incidence, with a shift to an older white male population.

I'm not gonna judge the morality or the efficacy of your avoidance steps, or at least I'll try not to.

But I have to ask, what does ITC/OTC have to do with using a condom? Do you find that more girls are willing to go raw OTC vs ITC? Or do you indicate your desire to not use a condom as part of the OTC pitch and only accept those who agree?

I wrote the article focusing on OTC because I rarely have FS ITC. But if I am seeing a dancer OTC, I am always having FS.

I have agreed to FS OTC with a condom, but have always regretted it. The loss in sensation is not desirable when one of the reasons to do OTC is to enjoy a woman more fully.

Also, are confusing morality with common sense? I fully admit that what I have chosen to do is not safe. But I would guess all of us on this site who frequent clubs have a low bar where morality is concerned.

Even if you do not participate in dances with or without extras, going to see women you don't know get naked so you can enjoy seeing their bodies is not something men with high moral compasses do. Count me guilty as charged for having a very low, moral compass. YMMV.

I mentioned morality because the comment above mine seemed to carry that theme, particularly around the aspect of that sort of behavior driving the more easily transmissible variants and the spread to others, etc.

As far as going to a strip club being inherently immoral, I disagree. I'd also disagree that all of us have a low bar with respect to morality. I'd say there's an even mix of morals. There's a difference between a lack of morals and different morals. I don't see anything wrong with a woman dancing naked on stage for money, nor do I see anything wrong with paying her to do so. I don't think going to to the strip club is an indicator of low morals. However, if one did find those things objectionable or somehow "wrong" and yet participated anyway, that would be an indicator of low morals. The distinction is the commitment and adherence to your own moral code, vs the alignment of your moral code with the prevailing morals of the culture around you.

In my opinion it's perfectly reasonable for someone to have a moral objection to behaviors that lead to the spread of disease while having no moral objection to the exchange of sexual gratification, be it purely visual or though physical contact. Or really any combination of the two. As long as that person displays conviction in their beliefs and aligns their behavior to that, it's more accurate to say they have a different moral compass rather than a greater or lesser one. While someone who doesn't act in alignment with their morals, and engages in behaviors they believe are wrong could be said to have lesser morals.

It's basic psychology that the more one is exposed to a risk without a bad outcome, the more comfortable one becomes with taking that risk. Here, you've just gotten used to the risk. But that doesn't mean there is no risk. There is exactly the same risk. You've just been lucky. And if you take the risk enough, one day your luck will run out.

Put differently, if you're playing Russian roulette, things don't get safer when the gun hasn't gone off for the on the first three trigger pulls. Equally, you can drive without a seatbelt all you want without a bad outcome until the time you are driving without a seatbelt and your car gets t-boned.

I’m on a SC “hiatus” and haven’t clubbed in almost 18-months (not sure when or if I’ll resume m SC-career).

But I was an avid SCer for about 20-years – for w/e reason OTC never really had a big-appeal for me – I guess it’s b/c I like variety so much and I get more-turned-on in a club with a few-dozen half-naked women walking-around “all available for the taking” – I was also not a big-extras-guy mainly b/c I was afraid of catching-something, and the much higher expense involved w/ extras– but w/ time I started partaking in ITC extras but it was not my main-thing and on many/most visits I was fine w/ just getting HM-dances - w/ time when I started occasionally doing extras it was usually a “spur of the moment” thing where I was really turned-on w/ a particular-dancer that was dancing for me.

w.r.t. the raw vs covered – I’m in the camp that I find covered-sex so inferior to raw that that-is a pretty-big-reason I’ve never been a big SC-extras-PL – covered-extras don’t have that big-an-appeal to me so I often rather go w/o the extras.

I have had uncovered-extras multiple-times and it was great – but being aware of how potentially dangerous that can be I avoided making it a regular-thing.

If one is willing to accept the risks for the pleasure, I can personally see that angle depending on one’s stage in life (age; no S.O.; no dependent-kids; etc); but at the very-least it’s a good-idea to get snipped b/c it’s probably much easier to get a stripper pregnant and be paying child-support for 2-decades than getting a serious-STD.

1. "Hygene:" A woman can have a pussy that smells like a country meadow and still have an STD profile that's more varied and terrifying than a public restroom toilet in Calcutta.

2. "Is she on the pill?" It's interesting how guys doubt or don't believe nearly every single thing that comes out of a stripper's mouth except "Don't worry. I'm on the pill."

3. "Dancer curiosity about you"

Honestly, I would have the exact opposite reaction.

Because the vast majority of dancers never ask that question because they know a customer will never admit to having an STD right after they've just asked for bareback sex. Dancers who ask that question are gun shy because they've had a scare or a bad experience that caused them to be on antibiotics for several weeks. Dancers start asking that question because of their own behavior, not yours.

"That at least lets me know she is thinking about me not giving her an std, which probably means she doesn't have an std."

It doesn't mean that at all. Unless she's on a porn industry schedule where she's getting tested every 2 weeks, that question has no connection to her STD status.

Listen, you do you. Everyone on this site chooses levels of risk that they can live with. But what your espousing here really sounds like the things you tell yourself to believe you're having "safer" unsafe sex. And (my opinion) is that's just not true and probably not great advice for other club patrons.

And I say this as a guy who gets extras, OTC, and hates condoms. But I keep things wrapped, because ultimately I'm fucking a complete stranger who likely fucks a lot of strangers.

Call.Me.Ishmael, Thanks for your thoughtful comments. When I submitted this article I included disclaimers, including "Even following these tips, it very risky to have unprotected sex."

I also assume anyone reading this is an adult who is smart enough to make their own decisions about their sexual behaviors.

I shared what is comfortable for me. Thanks for your insights and to the others who have commented on this article to give our fellow mongers more to think about as they consider whether to cover or not.

-You asked a girl (a stripper and part time escort) is she is on the pill? She answered yes so Phew! you are covered. (Class, who can point out the error in this?). -You don’t like or want condoms (see bullet point above), you don’t like sitting on other guys spunk and draw the line at an unpleasantly scented kitty. Seriously no offense but I’m friggin busting! up! on this. Who knows, Maybe in the last two weeks She’s sucked 15 bologny ponies and a 20 in the kitty. But onward and upward! she smells lemony fresh and no club couch!. Alex, I’ll take Wrong Conclusions & Bad Ideas for a thousand. -“going to see women you don't know get naked so you can enjoy seeing their bodies is not something men with high moral compasses do”. So if I meet a girl at a SC a number of times and get to know her, I’m now absolved of the sin and I’ll get into heaven? So as long as I stay home and watch 2 dimensional images or videos of 2 kitties grinding together, I’m ok because I’m in the confines of my home? You have granted your home some very magical power of decency. Nonetheless, a SC is where the result of evolution plays out more honestly than most places. -she is in your house. You know that a stripper in your house isn’t leaving until paid. -An =>7 full time escort can command 600 an hour. 4 hours easily crosses a grand. -She is in your house

If she'll fuck you without a condom, she'll fuck everyone without one. With a condom you basically have to only be concerned with HSV2, HPV, and syphilis. Read some data on likelihood of transmission to determine your comfort level. Condoms aren't a panacea but they generally help.

I wish female condoms had been a thing back in my FS, days, would definitely want to give them a try. Although, one stripper told me she thought they were gross.

I'm not sure willingness to have an abortion has increased over time. With younger women, they're more likely to be pro-choice, but that doesn't always mean they'd be willing to terminate their own pregnancy. And younger women tend to have a "shit happens" attitude about ending up as a single parent. If you can afford regular paid FS, that probably makes you a more practical option for baby daddy than most.

Condoms are a definite requirement for me. With them, I'll go most anywhere. Without, only with a spouse.

"Is she on the pill?- I ask the dancer if she is on the pill, which will reduce the possibility of an unplanned pregnancy, especially since I always pull out."

What if she lies and attempts to trap you?

Going FS without a condom is like free-style mountain climbing. For sure a lot more exciting, but the risk just isn't worth the rewards. And there ARE condoms that are so thin, you really can feel the difference. Trojan Magnum RAW is not a bad one, or some of those Japanese brands like Okamoto or Kimono micro-thin. Still not as sensitive as going BB, but way more peace of mind.