Why Top Strip Clubs Have Gone Downhill -- and why it will continue
Bananafish
New York
As a business traveler and frequent patron of most of the top strip club cities (Detroit, Houston, Miami, NYC, Dallas, Phoenix, etc) I have noticed it too. It seems like there are much less 8s, 9s, and 10s than there were say 3-5 years ago.
What's going on? I'm going to be very clear: the hottest girls have been leaving stripping for webcamming or getting their sex-entertainment start in webcamming, bypassing stripping altogether.
I would challenge all of you to spend a couple hours browsing the top cam sites during prime time. There are hundreds if not thousands of girls doing webcamming on a daily, semi-daily, or weekly basis. You will see TONS of girls that could easily be an 8-10 at one of the Top 20 clubs. Start adding up the girls webcamming on a given night, as I have tried, and you can see how if the hottest cam population were divided up, very conservatively, there would be between 2 and 5 girls of 8-10 level attractiveness that would otherwise very likely be working at one of the Top 20 TUSCL clubs. Maybe more.
Let's just go to the numbers from everyone's favorite site, Stripperweb. As I write this, here is the current activity going on at that forum:
Stripping 38 Viewing
Club Chat 26 Viewing
Camming Connection: 115 Viewing
So on a forum dedicated to stripping - there are at this very moment MORE THAN TWICE the number of girls talking about webcamming than in-club stripping! Think about that.
Why is this the case? Some of you PLs are going to be upset about this, but we have to be honest if we are going to address and hopefully fix this problem: webcamming is simply a better job than stripping for a good portion of very attractive girls; the money is similar or better with the benefit of having freedom of schedule. There are exceptions of course. But don't just listen to me, look at a few of these gem quotes from our favorite site:
- - -
"Stripping is hard fucking work, it's very physical and you oftentimes have to chase your money down and suck it out of guys as opposed to camming where the guys just come to you and hand it over."
"I find the money to be pretty similar too but with camming the money is very consistent and I'm able to work way more hours camming than I can stripping."
"With dancing... you have to pay house fees and tips whether you make $ or not. In camming I can work numerous sites, come and go as I please, and there's no cut taken out of my pocket if I don't make anything. I will never go back!"
"But at the club you had to tip out the DJ, the door guy, the bartender, house mom, pay a locker fee"
"I was a dancer before. I think I make about the same money now as I did the last few times I danced. In the long run I think I make more camming though because it's easier and less stressful and so I'm able to do it more."
- - -
I'm sorry to say that I think the problem is going to continue unless something is done. The problem being the migration of top talent from stripping to webcamming and subsequent deterioration of remaining talent at top clubs. The webcamming industry is maturing and service is improving, making it easier for girls to get online and get paid. The problem is not going away on its own.
Club owners: this would be my advice. You need to understand that newbie strippers from here on out are going to be of the Millenial generation. Besides being self-absorbed and lazy, millenials are also risk-averse, having come of age during the financial crisis. You need to fix a few things about stripping that are immeasurably unappealing to Millenials.
1. Tip outs have to stop. This is an extremely common reason cited for why strippers leave for webcamming. Risk-averse millenials can simply NOT get their heads around the fear of losing money via a tip-out in a club. It does not compute with them and many don't want a job with this stress over their head, even if they're attractive enough to make significantly above tip out every single night. I am convinced allowing girls to keep every $ they make in the club will attract and retain much higher quality talent.
2. Raise cover charges to make up the losses from above. I'm not asking you to lose money here, so you have to raise cover (or drink prices or whatever) to make up the difference. Spread the increased cover take around the staff to make everyone whole with what they were with tip outs. PLs reading this will be apoplectic at this but I know many that would pay a higher cover charge for talent like it was 3-5 years ago.
3. End mandatory shifts. Allow girls to work the nights they want. None of this "you have to work 2 weekdays to get 1 weekend night". This kind of stuff is turning top girls away who can work WHENVER THEY WANT webcamming. Unfortunately I don't have an offset to fix the problems this might cause.
The changes I suggest above have actually been implemented with great success at 2 very popular clubs: St Venus Theater (SVT) and Lido Room, both in New York City. Lido Room is ranked #2 in Dancers and #10 overall on TUSCL. If not for its no-review policy, SVT would be ranked #1 in Dancers on TUSCL easily. Both clubs charge high covers ($40-50) but don't have dancer tip outs nor mandatory shifts. These clubs are killing it in NY and stealing customers and talent left and right from other clubs.
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SJG
Jasmin.com will have foreign girls
Myfreecams have a large american girl base
Also, it depends on where you are in the world. If you live outside of the USA, many sites like Streamate, will show you foreigners first.
The top webcam girls on MFC make WAY more than any top stripper in any city.
On Myfreecams, just to make the top 20, girls are profiting (their cut) in a MINIMUM of 30,000 usd per month. The #1 girl will bring in over 100,000 in just a month, with the number 2 girl not being too far behind.
Lets just assume the girl isn't the "top" girl. Just to make the top 100, she needs to bring in (her cut) approx 9,000 per month. That's better money than many clubs. No contact. No scheduling. No fees.
Strip clubs will continue to die. Nothing can be done about that.
There are much less drastic measures one can take to level the playing field. If managers treated strippers with a little respect, I'm sure it would go a long way. Create a more hospitable work environment by providing some dressing room amenities. Instead of cutting out tip-outs/house fee's completely, design them in such a way as to incentivize girls to come to the less attractive shifts (eg, no shift fee or maybe even a small shift payment for coming in before noon / 8pm.)
Also, take another look at camming. Sure, the top girls on the top sites make a lot of money, but average girls don't make that much. There's also the fact that a LOT of girls don't want to have naked photos/video's of them all over the internet, which is what camming does.
It's a fact. The number one girl on Myfreecams will reach that number in one single month. Top girls are making over 250,000 in a year. Do your research. Getting that number one spot is very difficult for the models, and no girl gets number 1 month after month.
Many girls do prefer dancing to keep anonymity. But for the girls who don't care, who are attractive, and have a decent personality... caming is the way to go income wise. It's not difficult for hardworking girls to make 5000-10000 per month.
In the early 80s, girls were paid hourly to work. There was also very little contact, if any. By the mid 80s the popularity of strip clubs continued to grow. Girls were so excited to work the good shifts, that they were willing to work said shifts for free. By the 90s, strip clubs began introducing VIP rooms and contact began to increase. The money was so good, that the girls were willing to pay to be there on the good shifts.
If clubs could revert to the days when girls either A) paid to work or B) worked for free things would change. Also, lapdances have been hovering around 10 and 20 dollars a lapdance for decades. The price would need to keep up with todays inflation. (something strip club goers don't want, price increases)
Disagree completely. My last point was this model is working extremely well for the 2 clubs in NYC doing this. Covers are $40 and $50 at these spots, not $75. I never said $75 - in fact I don't know what the break-even cover would be if a club outside of NYC got rid of tip outs. Lido Room is ranked #2 in Dancers and #10 overall on TUSCL. If not for its no-review policy, SVT would be ranked #1 in Dancers on TUSCL easily.
So it's working.
^
agreed
i never knew that some web-cam girls made THAT much money. that's somewhat surprising to me. and the reason it surprises me a bit is because the customer of a web-cam girl (no matter how hot she is) has no physical contact with her. but i guess PL's are different and some of them find web cam girls satisfying. it doesn't do much for me because there's no physical contact--no real flesh
I disagree. Detroit has been extras-central for 10 years now but the dancer quality has declined only in RECENT years, coinciding with the growth of cam sites. Houston cracked down on extras in the last couple of years but dancer quality has NOT improved. If you were right we'd be seeing better quality in Houston but we're not. I strongly believe webcamming has stolen top talent.
I was thinking that it might have to do more w/ sugar-daddy sites and girls promoting themselves on Instagram; but camming is probably the biggest culprit and the one closest to stripping.
A small dive I go-to charges the girls up to $55 house-fee on weekend nights - dances are $10 and then the club takes an additional $3 out of every dance - and this club is a small dive with usually a dozen custies on an avg night at any one time and maybe 2 dozen on weekend eves - and many dudes just sit and drink and don't buy dances.
To me good business is win/win - in the case of the dive above I would make the house-fee $25 and then use the $3 out of every dance to total the $55 house fee - and anything after that the girls keeps - that way she gets charged a higher fee (within reason) as she able to sell more dances but doesn't lose out big-time if the club is dead or full of non-spenders.
In the example of the dive I gave, w/ a $55 house-fee and $3 out of every dance - if she's lucky enough to sale 20 dances that's $200 - take away the $55 house fee and the $3 out of every dance and she's left w/ $85, less than 50% of her earnings - and these days this dive is dying w/ few custies and few dancers - dancers don't wanna come-in b/c of the high fees then custies don't come b/c no dancers and a vicious cycle ensues.
I wonder what kind of cut the cam sites take from the girls.
Facts are shilling all of a sudden? Just because you can't wrap your mind around a girl making that much, doesn't mean it's not true. Top customers know the fact, it's common knowledge. And to ease your mind, no, I don't work or promote for them. In fact, they don't even have an affiliate program. So there goes your argument.
Here's a few sources.
https://www.stripperweb.com/forum/showth…
https://www.ambercutie.com/forums/thread…
http://kitty-kats.net/threads/mfc-inadve…
http://www.camgirltoolbox.com/how-much-d…
The models only section of the amber cutie forum has a running tally of how much it takes to rank. You'll need to access that section by being a model, or knowing how to get around their security.
Not all girls make this much, obviously. It's good to keep in mind that top cam girls make so. much. more. than top strippers.
It depends on the webcam site.
Streamate.com girls keep 35%
Chaturbate.com 50%
Myfreecams.com 50%
LiveJasmin.com is a tiered system 30-60%
Flirt4Free 35%
etc..
Girl will make less than the standard cut if they accidentally sign up for a "studio". Studio pimps use their affiliated website (3rd party) to recruit girls and make money off of them. In these instances, instead of making 35% on Streamate, the girl will make 30% on thridpartystreamate.com
It makes sense that cam sites can get away with such a huge cut. Their traffic can potentially be anyone with an internet connection. Whereas a strip club is vastly limited on their location, weather, time of year and other circumstances.
Some cam girls are "independent". They prefer to take their customers from social media to Skype. This way they can keep a larger piece of the pie. 99% do not take paypal as a payment method, sadly. It's against their ToS and personal information can easily be found. This can be a good way to get a cheaper show. Popular girls generally never Skype, just something to keep in mind.
No, the percentages he quoted are the wrong way of thinking about it even though that math is right. It's hard to explain but the tokens are worth more to the guys than the girls. It costs more to buy one than to cash one in.
What's important is that from the camgirl's perspective there is no "taking" being done. Nothing is being "taken" from their perspective. There is no payout at all from their point of view. In their mind they keep what they earn. This is very important psychologically for their workplace happiness, especially compared to strip clubs, even if the the exchange-rate economics are mathematically what that guy posted.
Generally speaking, most websites award members "tokens" or "credits" the more money they spend. The percentages I quoted are the simple, basic forms! This does not include reward systems the site has in place.
If you look at Streamate, some girls charge 6.99 per minute for example. The girl knows the are charging 6.99 per minute. They also know they are only getting 35% of that. So sorry banana, but you are wrong there. From the cam girl perceptive, there IS "taking" being done.
If you look at myfreecams, 1000 tokens bought at a the largest package is .08 cents per token. The girls know that 1000 tokens cost the member under 100 us dollars. When they recieve that tip of 1000 tokens, they are only getting 50 us dollars. The easiest way to calculate what a girl is getting as a tip; take 1000, drop the last number "0" then divide it in half. "taking" is being done
"What's important is that from the camgirl's perspective there is no "taking" being done" Wrong wrong wrong. They see the taking being done! My point above proves this.
They see the taking. They don't always see the customer discounts (from larger package purchases and site reward systems)
To me I think it's the convenience and not having deal w/ anyone (managers; grabby/needy PLs, other dancers) that I assume appeals most to cam-girls.
The token glitch on myfreecams happened. Fact. That is the only reason why people know how much girls are making. Pumpkinspice, one of their top models was even tweeting "why is my income out for the world to see?" OlivaNaked, another (retired) top model had a radio show (look it up on youtube) and she states that the numbers are true. The list of top 100 girls confirming their numbers on social media is astounding. I'm no conspiracy theorist, and I don't see 20, 50, or 100 girls all coming together "in harmony" to make up fake numbers. You have the right to believe it or not, but before you go around saying "that's not true!" perhaps you should prove it's not with your own "due diligence". Sorry to say, but your personal "common sense" doesn't fit my due diligence either.
So, the solution is two-fold: reduce the demand, and make stripping a more attractive option for the girls.
https://twitter.com/nintend_xo/status/65…
https://twitter.com/cyberpalx/status/662…
https://twitter.com/kittypurrz/status/65…
https://twitter.com/Sophie_mfc/status/65…
Members
https://twitter.com/iSonnyLucas/status/6…
https://twitter.com/brucebingo/status/68…
https://twitter.com/mfc_truth/status/657…
Top model's reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/4…
More sources. I don't have all day to dig through twitter post after post from October 24th 2015 when the token glitch was revealed. Really though @twentyfive all these people came together under a tin foil hat and created this conspiracy. The token amount was revealed, probably as a PR move on mfc's standpoint.
You said it was possible, but not realistic. I was proving to you in my posts above that it IS a face and IS realistic. Top cam girls make more than top strippers. Which, to back up the OP, may very well be *one* of the reasons strip clubs are going downhill.
This was never an argument for whether or not "I enjoy it [webcam sites]"
I'm actually with you on this one. I would rather "touch, smell and taste" instead of looking at a screen.
The facts stand. Webcaming is increasingly more popular, and far more lucrative for top notch girls than stripping.
Viet Coffee shops are not strip clubs, or anything like a strip club. But we have had Coffee Girls who have given interviews to print media and said that they were doing camming too.
Myself, I have never paid for a camming session, and at this point in my life I don't see how I ever would. Decades and decades ago I paid for about 3x phone sex sessions. But I would not do this again.
I'm only interested in f2f interactions, even if they are just looking and talking, like at our local clubs. At least there, the possibility of seeing the girl outside is quite likely.
So if camming is drawing girls away, then there must be a demand for camming, people willing to pay money. And from what I hear, it is not cheap. So who would go for camming instead of a Strip Club or an AMP? Is it guys with infirmities or disabilities? Or is it guys who want to keep it bounded, not to end up seeing the girl outside, guys who want to keep it hidden from an SO? We understand why girls for for Camming instead of a Strip Club, but why are guys willing to pay money for Camming?
Is Camming taking the place of the old style behind glass shows? The girls really give good pink displays and toy shows there.
S.F. Lusty Lady, no more
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-…
I had read direct dancer interviews and they said that some of the guys keep themselves hidden, like by having the lights low. Is this the idea behind camming?
SJG
NINE INCH NAILS - "CLOSER"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccY25Cb3…
He has so much money, so much fame, can easily go to clubs... yet he was a huge supporter for NikkiSkylar on mfc. They ended up dating and living together.
Maybe it's just the entertainment? Like watching tv vs playing video games... im at a loss for this one.
https://www.ambercutie.com/forums/thread…
http://www.therichest.com/expensive-life…
Once again - like everything else - greed kills. Owners just want to keep sticking it left and right - i know of one ATF who was tired of the BS at one place so went to another, now my drinks cost a bit more and my time with her more as well, but I'll follow for now if i can stay going there.
Let's be honest - time to drop all the crap and just make the darn stuff legal, and put them out in a restricted street somewhere and a zoning restriction that says places can't build next to THEM instead of the other way around.
The girls would be crazy not to seek something better.
Without a house fee/tip out/whatever you call it, strippers will sit on their phones the whole night unless they hear a helicopter landing on the roof of the SC dropping off a customer. Very low house fees can mean many strippers show up, they have nothing else to do, theyd be on FB at home if not in the SC. But with very low house fees, they will be very picky about interacting with customers, because they dont have any expenses to cover.
SVT and Lido are NOT open every day of the week. Instead of mandatory shifts, LDR and SVT just stay CLOSED on dead days. Normal SCs are always open for reputation reasons. LDR and SVT use a psuedo-RSVP system. Normal SCs are like Walmart, always open except for weather emergencies. If normal SCs started to be open only Thu-Sat, their reputation would be killed and their customers would never come back. You come to a SC, door closed, you go somewhere else, and never come back.
Normal SCs must subsidize dead days to keep their reputation for busy days. The lapdance parties (SVT/LDR) dont, because they aren't open every day, and they are never in the same place 2 days in a row. Without checking the schedule, its impossible to goto a lapdance party.
@Dolfan
2 of my reg SCs have sliding house fees based on entry time. One example, $10 at opening. $120 if you arrive after the state's last call (which means a dancer worked at another SC that night then came to mine).
Your 34 years of experience doesn't matter. Top camgirls making those figures are a very new thing, just within the past couple years. Ever represent a myfreecams model? No? Then stay in denial.
For someone like you, the only proof you would accept are paystubs. Unfortunately I cannot go to Myfreecams headquarters and ask for model income release forums. I can however connect the dots, see my links above.
All strip clubs need to follow Delilahs strategy.
At Delilahs dancers pay certain fee to club.I guess it's $85 depending on the shift. All the money from couch room lap dances goes to dancers.If it's $20 per song dancer will keep it..Nothing goes to the club.That's why it's crowded at night time,super crowded on Fridays and Saturday nights. They have all kind of girls.
Club risque on Delaware allow dancers to come at any shift.No restrictions.
So it is free to watch the naked girl, and she will kiss the screen at your funny comment or put her fingers somewhere if you ask? To her no risk of your germs or bad breath or your LDK mess?
Benefit for the man: you only tip when you wish? All looking is free?
It ideal for the younger American generation that grew up with phone and computer screen, and now with bad jobs that pay little income. Sound like watching cam girl is best option to access attention of pretty girl for most young American men. Strip club too expensive likely.
But overall, experience of beautiful young girl in person is best. Unfortunately it is now harder to find beautiful young girl in top club now.
to tip an image
(if she allows it)
I would not do this today.
Even in our no touching clubs locally, if you get along with a girl and are careful about starting it, you can talk as explicitly with them as you can with phone sex girls do. And the odds of being able to see the girl OTC are much greater.
Are people doing sessions with the camming girls? Why do that instead of seeing a girl at a strip club, and especially as I hear that camming sessions are not cheap. Is it somehow related to not wanting to show your own face and clothed body?
SJG
Adrienne Barbeau. 1973, remember her. This was in the good old days when women were forgoing bras. Johnny Carson I cannot stand.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6U2gq-P…
Adrienne Barbeau, belly dancing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgVbj-AR…
more Adrienne Barbeau
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPUOcXOv…
more
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPMDCLa_…
Remember, back in those days once their other gigs started to dry up, they would end up being a guest star on Love Boat.
A Tribute to Valerie Perrine, I recognize some of these scenes where she is nearly topless as being from when she played the stripper Hot Honey Harlow, from the movie Lenny, with Dustin Hoffman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pnIYlKo…
Then she will harvest all tips from the entire chatroom.
It make sense a pretty girl want to do this. Clean, no health risk, no deal with house fee and tipouts, make own schedule, no need for permit/fees, safety, no commute, less wear & tear on wardrobe, perhaps no need for wardrobe, no need for wear stripper heal, and efficient--all minutes of her cam effort is not devote to a single customer but all customer viewing her chatroom (well, really she just pay attention to camera lens...she cannot even see her customer...which lead to her own emotional protection and better mental well-being perhap...her customer are not real people with faces, just online users who might tip her through the computer).
Interesting time we are live in now.
And why do guys do this instead of going to a f2f strip club? How much are they spending? Is it like they are doing it on their work time? Hee Hee Hee!
SJG
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0110963/
Where a girls' night out for fun, means dressing the part and going to the street hooker area, and where getting paid is not very important.
Newly discovered MLK speech, Jan 1964, about Apartheid and Segregation:
https://www.democracynow.org/shows/2017/…
TJ Street Photos
http://www.adelitasbartijuanamexico.com/…
http://www.losangelespress.org/wp-conten…
Yab Yum
http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww69/…
Hermetic Hour
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyQ0fjNo…
I still don't think that top camgirls make more than top strippers. So the top camgirl makes 100k a month? How long does the top camgirl stay on top? That list is always changing and getting more diluted every day. You can't just extrapolate that the top camgirl (if there is such a thing) makes over a million a year from camming. Also the average top camgirl works a lot more, has more overhead, and probably pays much more in taxes as she doesn't get paid in cash and is easier to audit. We supposedly know how much the top camgirls (out of all of them) make. No one really knows how much the top strippers make. In the south side of Chicago (one of the wastelands of strip clubs), the very top girls (and just regular house dancers, not feature dancers) would routinely make over a couple grand on a good night. (An hour in the VIP would cost $500-800+, not including tip, which is usually another couple hundred or so depending on what she does). Yes, about 1/3 or more of that base hourly rate would go to the club, but a naughty hot girl in a well run busy club could make over $500 per hour from her regulars (and a naughty hot girl, like a 9 or 10, will certainly have regulars) ITC. There's also OTC which is also done on her own time (not that different from all the overtime camgirls put in). A top house stripper should able to cover all her costs (house fees, house mom, DJ, wardrobe, transportation) just from the stage (as long as the stage is setup in a way for the girl to make money; some stages are super lame and bring almost no money for the girl). Food and drink will be paid for by some customer. No one (and i mean no one) really knows exactly how much the top girls are making except for the girls themselves. And these girls I'm thinking of are probably not in the top 500 or even top 1000 in the country. An average stripper can make over 50 grand a summer in Alaska if she's willing to spend her summers there. So it's not reflective of the industry as a whole to compare the top earners. Median earners is a better example of which occupation pays more. I would bet that camming has a higher turnover/attrition rate despite the better looking girls on average. I would also bet that the average earnings drop down a lot from top 1 to top 10 to top 100 to top 1000 which is still way above the median earnings.
As of now, strip clubs are still making money, which means that strippers are still making money. There is probably no other industry that is as dependent on their workers making money to survive. The strip clubs I see failing are the overpriced topless clubs that offer NOTHING that anyone nowadays will pay for. I'm looking at clubs like Scores in Stone Park, Illinois, the recently closed Allure in the same area, and the recently opened Gold Club also in the same location. Only a certain type of club will survive and that type of club will evolve and emerge as the business model to emulate. Heck in the last several years, the freaking Admiral in Chicago and the Silver Slipper Saloon in Ottawa, IL recently started allowing contact (and even fairly moderate contact if the dancer was fine with it) because they apparently needed to change something to draw in business despite having very attractive dancers.
That's about all I have to say about the subject. I'm not an expert or an insider, but I spend enough time and money at strip clubs to know a thing or two about what makes them work and what doesn't. On the other hand, I don't spend a dime on camgirls, but I've seen quite a few for free, so that's about all I know regarding that industry.
So if you want mongering and front room GFE, come during the day time. In many such places the girls give you very little choice but to start making out with them.
I learned long ago that at clubs where the rules are bent, daytime is best. And the Alcohol inspectors usually come at night time, mostly looking for things getting slippery with the alcohol serving. So daytime is better.
SJG
Detroit is a run down hell hole, a lot of people would move out if they could but can't because they are trapped financially. When you are desperate, you are gonna do a lot of things you wouldn't like suck a gross strangers dick.
Get real, a lot of you are just pissed because you wanna get your dicks wet the quick & easy way and the hot women are sick of having to whore themselves out to someone they normally wouldn't touch in a million years and get out as soon as they can or just don't even start.
The issue of “extras” I see as something of a “chicken vs egg” type situation. You could argue that when strippers started watching their earnings drop, they tried to compensate by offering extras. So strippers got back some of their lost earnings, and we the strip club goers, have an increased incentive to keep spending our hard earned money.
I would agree that the increased expectation for “extras” has driven some girls out of strip clubs, but in my own experience the exodus has been more from the lower end clubs rather than the higher end. Though originally from Texas, I spent about a dozen years in Las Vegas (my posts from that time were under a different name). When I left Texas all men’s clubs in Austin were topless only, and touching wasn’t allowed in any of them. When I returned Austin had four nude clubs and touching is so common it’s not even considered an extra. That said, you can still find beautiful, intelligent women at the better Austin clubs who don’t allow touching at all. They sell themselves through their personality, and while I’m sure their earnings suffer, apparently they make enough to meet their needs (although I know from experience many of them will offer companion type dates to their better customers). On the other hand, the less attractive/intelligent/personable white girls who used to make a killing in nude clubs got squeezed out when prettier and curvier Hispanic and Cuban girls moved in. These newcomers can’t work effectively in the better Austin clubs because their lack of English makes them less appealing to the more affluent White customers, while their willingness to offer more of a “hands on” experience makes them more competitive at the lower end clubs. I’ve heard white girls blame the Cuban girls for their loss of income, but again, I see this as a “chicken vs egg” type argument. From what I can tell, the majority of their income loss happened before the Cuban invasion even began, so in my opinion these Cuban girls have probably kept one or two Austin nude clubs from going out of business.
As for camming, that’s simply not an option for the average stripper. Every weekend you will find girls from San Antonio, Dallas and Houston in the Austin clubs. Where are the Austin girls? Probably in Dallas or Houston (San Antonio has those retarded pastie laws). Strippers can protect their anonymity. Camming is absolutely the opposite. Don’t be surprised if someone you know recognizes you your first month on cam, your first week, your first day. (And this is without the new facial recognition technologies that are being developed) Of course if you make it to your first month on cam you’ve reached a milestone. A lot of girls, the majority of girls, don’t even survive the first week. But every week you do survive, and the more success you achieve, directly increases your odds of being identified, either now or in the future, because once something is on the Internet it’s there forever.
Becoming a cam girl is like starting your own business. I know several people who run their own businesses, and each and every one of them works insane hours. Successful cam girls are no exception. Technically, yes, you can set your own hours. The reality though, is that if you want to become successful on a platform like MFC, you’re going to have to put in very long days, every day of the month. Very few people have that type of work ethic. And that’s just the tip of the iceberg. You’re going to have to be gorgeous. You’re going to have to have the type of “performer” personality that can build an audience. You’re going to have to be able to set up a camming studio, take care of things like hair/makeup/costumes, set up a website, produce content like photos and videos, understand how to create an online persona and design entertaining cam shows… And even if you can manage all this, then you also have to be mature enough and savvy enough to navigate all the behind-the-scenes politics and bullshit that you find on MFC and AmberCutieForums (which btw, is one of the darkest places on the internet, as just about every camgirl on that site is batshit fucking insane). So the idea that camming is a viable option for the average girl, let alone that she will become wealthy doing it, is absurd, an utter phantasy. Really the average stripper has a better chance of winning the lottery than becoming a success on MFC.
I predict strip clubs will make a recovery. President Trump wants to penalize companies that ship jobs overseas, while domestic investment is already increasing. If/when the economy turns around and the American middle class male has more disposable income again, strip clubs will rebound despite the increased prevalence of extras, or the existence of camming (a cam show on a laptop can’t compete with a live girl on your lap), or increased competition from ethnic minorities (the last I heard, illegal immigration is already slowing down, and the Cubans are no longer getting a free pass to emigrate to the United States).
"As for camming, that’s simply not an option for the average stripper. "
My article was focused on high end clubs, not middle-range clubs or clubs dominated by "average strippers". I am certain camming has been draining talent from the top-25 or so clubs on TUSCL. Camming is a viable and popular option for many high end strippers as you can see through the growth and the Viewing Activty of the camming forum on stripperweb on any given day.
Your middle class decline statement, while true, doesn't match up, since the decline in high end clubs has only happened in RECENT years while the middle class decline started much earlier as you point out. The timing of the decline I write about, and is evidenced in reviews here on TUSCL, more closely coincides with the growth of camming sites.
I have personal experience with #4 Palazio in Austin, Texas; #7 San Antonio Men’s Club in San Antonio, Texas; and #21 Treasures, Las Vegas, Nevada. Personally I wouldn’t consider any of these to be high end clubs. And based upon your statement that high end clubs don’t have “average” strippers, I would have to assume that you don’t either. But since you’ve already contradicted yourself, let’s move on.
I remember the Yellow Rose in Austin, Texas back in the late 80s, early 90s. The women were gorgeous, and they would often get on stage in actual dresses before stripping down to thongs. They were good conversationalists, and the focus was on seduction, not extras. When I got to Las Vegas, I naturally gravitated to Club Paradise. Most every girl was stunning. They were all well dressed, and well spoken, and you were reminded that women have much more to offer than just their bodies.
Both the Yellow Rose and Club Paradise still exist, physically, but if you visit them nowadays you’re going to be in for a much different experience. Part of it has to do with the decline in our culture. Nothing screams low class like tattoos and piercings on women. But it’s not just their appearance. Women today seem to have forgotten the art of seduction. And part of it has to do with the decline in our economy. I have friends who are undeniably upper middle class. For years I tried to tell them how bad the economy was, but they wouldn’t listen. One of them was always jetting around the world, always purchasing another car to add to his collection, always purchasing homes or real estate he didn’t need. Then about three years ago even he started to feel the pinch. Business dried up, he laid off staff, and now he’s trying to sell that prized car collection. The fact that clubs that cater more to the upper middle class didn’t really start to suffer until recently, doesn’t negate my argument. It strengthens it, because it coincides with economic changes that have now become so dire that they’re finally starting to affect everyone except the truly wealthy.
And contrary to your belief, camming is not a new phenomenon. It’s been around for at least 15 years, so long in fact that the market is now saturated and earnings are drying up for all but the top performers. In fact, my first exposure to webcamming was through a drop dead gorgeous dancer I met at The San Antonio Men’s Club, who had turned to dancing because she wasn’t able to make ends meet as a camgirl.
Has camming had some effect on men’s clubs? I’m sure it has, but then so has the rise of all forms of online and electronic pornography and prostitution, including amateur adult videos, online brothels, sugar daddy sites, even Tindr. Women who want to make money through sex have never had more options available to them, and this has increasingly fragmented the market for sex.
However, I have trouble believing that cam sites are the principal villains here, and with regards to high end strip clubs, I particularly find your assumptions questionable. My impression is that you don’t know very much about cam sites, because if you did, you would realize that high end strip clubs and cam sites cater to two very different markets. The type of men who frequent a true high end strip club are generally intelligent, and successful, and they are willing to pay top dollar for the company of a woman who has more to offer than just a great set of tits. A man like that is not going to sit at home and peer at a tiny screen where his interactions with a woman are reduced to text on a screen in a chat room filled with dozens or hundreds of other men. The “men” who would be willing to tolerate that, are the lowest of the low, men who make betas look like alphas, because they’re completely incapable of socializing with women in the real world.
In the world of xvideos and pornhub, only a true herb would sit and donate tokens to a woman via camgirl who only see you as an anonymous fool.
I'll never understand the attraction of camming, but if watching a girl on TV satisfied me, I'd certain sometimes choose that over dealing with SCs. And per my recent article about SA, it is another fast-growing option that has the same advantage of SCs (you can touch the girl... eventually) without the SC-like hustle.
I've never spent a penny on camming but I have checked out these websites. Camming seems similar to air dances. No touch and you lose money. The only difference is guys can jerk off if they want.
I'll stick to SC's thank you.
Anyway, TLDR ... liked the article, ignored most of the thread.