Shailynns Logical System: How To Suceed In The Strip Club

Mr. Dugan's System is based on the premise that one is not interested in stage side tipping, stage side contact, front room contact, or doing dances in the booths or the VIP Room. He is coming to strip clubs from having been one who calls escorts. Being able to go to a strip club and have a face to face first meeting is better. But if someone doesn't realize that he is coming to this from having been a user of escort services, then his System will seem strange.

Your Logical System is more moderate. But there are still many potential questions you don't address. For example, how receptive should you be to verbal dance pitches? My own observation is that when ever one has a bad experience in a strip club, usually at the root of it was the accepting such verbal dance pitches. It is how the women make money, and so you should not take offense. But this doesn't mean that you should accept either. My own practices have always been to wiggle out of such offers as tactfully as possible, and instead substitute things like invitations to sit and talk, or asking the dancer when she will be on stage, with the implicit suggestion that I will be sitting and tipping. I am also willing to give front room tips, even just for talking.

Usually it works, and then after having built some rapport with her, I can suggest a dance. This way I am also showing the initiative, as I am picking her instead of she picking me.

Now as far as stage side, you don't want to plant yourself there as they will suck your wallet dry. I also feel that it is rude to leave once sitting, during the middle of a dancer's set. So what I do is wait until a girl I like starts. Or I wait until I decide that I like the one on stage. Then I flatter her by sitting down and partaking and tipping, and then I get up after she has made her final rounds to collect her tips. But I do it quickly so that I am not insulting the girl who will follow.

Now where I live the clubs are strictly no touching. But in San Francisco this is not true. But still in many of the San Francisco clubs they do follow rules of their own, designed to increase the house take. That is why I call these places the modern version of a clip joint.

If one is in a true anything goes club, then my view is that as soon as possible you want to get the girl completely off script. Break out of the box of dances, songs, booths, and backrooms. They all add structure which runs up the cost and unnecessarily restrict your fraternizing.

This is consistent with what was described on blackstripclubs.net, at the most extreme FS clubs in the country. There the girls come and sit on your lap, without asking. Then they challenge you by licking your neck and nibbling on your ear. Very hard not to engage with them.

So mostly they want to get you into the back room. But sometimes there is no back room, so they just use dark corners. Other times they may want you to give them front room tips. But either way, I feel it is much nicer than the standard verbal dance sell.

Also, at these extreme places, it is the girls who are driving it this way. They have figured out that this is what gets results.

So as I see it, that is how the guy should do it too. Give her money as seems appropriate, and she won't have to cut it with the house. Once you have got a girl who is playful the way you like, then you invite her to the backroom, when it is necessary. Or maybe in some cases there is no limit as to what you can do in the front room. Just don't let a girl get you into a booth or back room, where you are paying song by song, until you have established an adequate degree of intimate rapport with her.

This is also consistent with my experiences in the underground circuit of table dancing shows which ran in some San Jose Mexican Bars. Because the shows were unadvertised, they did not follow all the rules the regular clubs were obliged to. Girls would just come up to you and start dancing in front of you, close in front. Since they didn't ask, they couldn't be turned down. They would start grinding and getting in your face. Most guys would start tipping them and play along. I usually would try out each of the girls. If I was done with one and she came back, I would just right away hand her one dollar and politely wave her on.

The girls have figured out that it is better not to ask, and not to expect more than $1 at a time. So the girls got much more money doing it this way than they would by verbally trying to sell dances. They don't have to get the guy to agree to anything this way. And the house cut of the money is going to be less. It will be just a flat rate.

Now as to how far things might go, it all depends.

This jives with my AMP experiences too. Lots of guys let the girl massage them and then start negotiating about money, or actually even asking the girl to offer services. Really stupid!

I treat them like civilians. I flirt with them during the selection process and I introduce myself to them and tell them all the things women want to know and I flatter them, and often enough end up making out with them without ever having touched the massage table. When it goes this way, the results are mind blowing and the women will be talking about it for months and months after. Get the girl off script, treat her like a civilian you have just met at a party.

Now about Mr. Dugan's System, something too extreme for most people, but it works for him. Portland dancer Trixxi posted that she would never agree to do OTC with a first timer who wouldn't do any ITC dances. Very reasonable in my view. But it still seems to work for Mr. Dugan.

I think that part of the appeal of SC's is to be able to have the girl dressed and made up exactly as you see her. See, Want, Get! That is real power. And a power trip is after all what this is all about!

So she should not have to change her clothes, take off her stripper shoes, drive her car, or otherwise get out of your reach. So then the best is the VIP Room, or an on site motel like at the TJ Hong Kong Bar, or what I've suggested, a motor home in the parking lot.

This sort of thing does not seem important for Mr. Dugan. What do you think about it? Do you think it should be direct, See, Want, Get, with the girl as you first spotted her and never getting out of your reach until you have completed business with her?

Do you think the TJ Hong Kong bar is a standard we should be figuring out how to emulate here in the US?

Hong Kong Bar tuscl.net

Thanks, SJG

Addendum,

@Dougster likes to make fun of Mr. Dugan's System, saying that all it amounts to is "paying a hooker for sex."

As I see it this is just completely off base and does not even merit a serious response. How one sets up the encounter is everything. The more civilian it can be, the better the experience is going to be. What the girl is accustomed to doing with other people is completely irrelevant. Money is what makes it possible for her to be there available, and be dolled up like she is. I think of it has her back end insurance. Most of the guys she sees, she will never see again, and she knows this.

But as far as what actually occurs between you and she, the motivations on the part of both parties will always be more complex.

So as I see it, anyone who has engaged in such encounters and given some thought to the matter will have developed their own particular approach. So Dougster's criticism is just completely off base, as also are @IME's criticisms of some of my narratives.

What do you think?

SJG

I think that what sort of a System you use needs to depend on what kind of an experience you want. How far do you want it to go, and how fast, and ITC or OTC. And then why are you doing P4P in the first place? To conceal infidelities from a spouse? Because you just want fast results? And then, do you separate women into two categories, and does this determine how you relate to them? And then are you wanting to pay money specifically to create emotional distance for yourself?

Again, Shailynn's article: tuscl.net

SJG

Well sorry Shailynn but this is just common sense stuff. This is not a System to get laid but just stuff i do every time I go to the club. If a person wants to get laid they need to just read my posts on how to have a true GFE. I get laid anytime I want using these ways to show the girl I really want to fuck her. It all starts by showing her respect and then lighting the fire between her legs! It's home free from there.

I'd rate this a big fat "Duh!!"

Don't take me too seriously like SJG. This was merely a joke mainly making fun of Ricky.

Yes I know what I put is merely common sense that someone that can count past 10 should easily know... but after talking to so many strippers it's amazing how many guys skips these steps which lead to major turn offs from strippers or issues inside the club, because... well guys are stupid.

Of your list, I really only do 1, 2 & 6. And none of them are really strip club specific; I shower regularly, bring cash to cash businesses, and generally wear a watch as a habit I picked up as a child.

Some of that stuff is absurd. Pretending to be engaged in the conversation with a stripper? Seriously? I'm all for treating the dancers with a degree of respect, but two people sitting in a strip club both pretending to enjoy a conversation is ridiculous. No shorts? It's fucking 90 degree's in the dead of winter, shorts and flip flops are standard fair. Not bringing your cell phone in because its a distraction? Stop worrying about how to act at a strip club and start worrying about your potential mental illness, if you lack the self control to leave your phone alone while being entertained I'd suggest seeking professional assistance.

I never use valet parking. The last thing I want are those sorts of creeps touching my car. Actually, I rarely even park on private property, especially with an establishment which serves alcohol. I prefer to park on the street. Less likely to have an accident, better legal standing if there is one. Don't want the strip club's bouncers, valets, or owners involved in my affairs. Rather deal with the cops and local gov't if there is a problem. And besides one of the reasons I stopped drinking even the little bit that I ever did, was because I don't think people should be drinking and driving. I would like to see the same 24hr dry rule applied as it is with aviation.

Reflecting on Shailynn's article last night, I think he is calling this a Logical System because is just the bare minimum. It is not really a system at all, it is just common sense.

Okay, but I still think Shailynn's Logical System omits what is actually the most important component, how you do and do not engage with the dancers. And while I don't believe there are absolute rules, I think there are some guidelines which should at least be considered.

Shailynn's related thread: tuscl.net

Rick Dugan's System tuscl.net

So we have Shailynn, Rick Dugan, and Jestrite50, all established SC and OTC aficionados. I also believe that each of them can be extremely charming with the dancers. But their views are completely different, or at least they seem to be.

Lets see if we can explore some of this, but I'm going to do it on a Discussion, as Articles still don't bump the way discussions do.

SJG

Eric Burdon and War, Paint it Black youtube.com

Dolfan obviously you've missed the point of this thread being a joke on Rick Dugan. But alas, I will address some of your issues.

1. Pretending to be engaged with a stripper - what's not to understand about that? Do I really want to sit there and listen to a stripper talk about her kids? No, but if she's hot I want to get into her panties and sometimes you have to act like you give a fuck about what she's talking about to peek her interest. Sometimes it takes more than money to get a strippers pussy wet.

2. Have you ever tried to get a lapdance with an iPhone 6 Plus and a set of keys in your pocket? It's a pain in the ass, plus after having 4 Scotches you may lay your phone and keys down and forget to immediately pick them up... if you leave your phone for more than 2 minutes in some clubs (or other places for that matter) and come back it's likely gone. Guys whine about taking their wives to clubs and being ignored. It's simple, leave all that shit at home or in your car and you won't have any distractions. As for me, after blowing a load all over a stripper being sure to pick up my fucking iPhone is not the first thing on my mind when leaving the VIP booth.

3. You look like a tool with flip flops on.... trust me, only acceptable if you're coming off a golf course at 2PM in myrtle beach..

Shailynn,

We understand now that you were just making fun of Rick Dugan. But not everyone completely disagrees with Rick Dugan. We also know that you are experienced with OTC and with Escorts. And I do of course agree with you that an SC might not be the best place to take an iPhone. But going beyond that, how one might best partake of strip clubs is already a contentious issue. Certainly it quickly became so once I started to post.

There seem to be at least two factions, and then I can also see that there are some people who do not fit into either one. So when you posted something to make fun of Rick Dugan, you were crossing into territory which is already contested.

The first faction I might describe as 'extras hounds'. These guys think the dance booth and the VIP room are the greatest inventions of all time. They've never really questioned how things might be different. And they seem to think nothing of greasing creepy bouncers. Mostly what they seem to want is for the dancer to make them ejaculate so that they can get that endorphin rush, but without having to do it using their own hand because they don't want to admit to themselves that they are full grown men who are still living like Beavis and Butthead.

The second faction I would describe as 'GFE aficionados'. Though speaking here only of my own experience, I'll try to say how I believe others also see it. Our own ejaculation is way down near the bottom of the priorities list. Making the girl cum rates much higher. But most of all, what is important is getting the girl to freely and voluntarily lower her emotional, psychological, and physical defenses, to get under her skin some. Though it is still a P4P environment and we still abide by its rules, we don't see the contractual agreement as having any particular significance. Paying the money is more just a show of respect to the girl, to her need to pay her bills, and to why she is there. As we see it, what she does with us she does because she wants to, and that if we had met her in a different context, she would probably be doing the same sorts of things, without expecting to be paid. And so there are some ramifications of this. First of all, the concept of a 'dance' where time is measured by songs, or a booth is used so that the house is going to get some of the money, are seen as hindrances rather than helps. And then second, the 'extras' paradigm itself is seen as a hindrance because the girl is going to keep control of the interaction. This is as opposed to the original freer form of lap dancing, which meant lap sitting without any specific time agreement.

Now where I live, Santa Clara County, the SC's are strictly no touching. You might think this makes them useless. Not so. Because there can be no touching there are also no private spaces and so instead what you do is talk. The talking can get quite far and it is quite possible to get under a girl's skin, and usually at only a moderate cost.

In San Francisco there is no legal prohibition against touching. But there is another problem. Because these clubs now all have world famous names and are on landmark real estate, and because there are not that many of them per capita, they all rake in a great deal of money as it is. So they see no reason to take any chances. They actually use their booths and back rooms to limit the mileage, to limit the freeness of the interactions, rather than to facilitate. They try to strictly limit front room interaction. This is why I see such places as being the modern version of a clip joint. What they sell is a very expensive and open ended fantasy. But as the girl trying to sell dances gets in the way of developing any rapport with her, and as the dance prices are so high, the typical 'mileage' is reduced.

And then, there is also the 'extras' form of FS. It is routinely practiced in many of the clubs people are writing about here. It is just 'extras' taken to it's logical conclusion, and with the same problems, the girl has never lowered her emotional barriers. She has learned to do it by dissociation.

Of course the basic problem which causes this is the way the interaction is initiated, a completely non-civilian form, the selling of dances, as opposed to just getting friendly with her and letting things develop.

Now it was actually you who had explained to me about the chair forts in the early days of Dallas and Houston high mileage. I am sure that as it was less structured, just between you and the dancer, that it was better than what typically goes on in most of these 'extras' clubs today.

I for one am not opposed to Rick Dugan's system, because at least he seems to know that he does not want 'extras'. But what I would rather see would be the fluidity which is found in the TJ Hong Kong Bar.

With your OTC and Escort experience, I would like to know where you stand on these sorts of issues.

Continuation of discussion, because Articles don't bump. tuscl.net

SJG

King Crimson youtube.com

Good list! Maybe it's because most of the clubs I have frequented have been dives, but I've heard plenty of dancers complain about customers who stink. In fact, I've talked to dancers in higher-end clubs who complain about the same thing. A lot of guys don't realize the value of hitting the shower before hitting the club and slapping some cologne on.

The same thing goes for leaving cellphones and anything else you don't absolutely need in the car. Years ago, one of my friends brought in his work cell but figured it was safe because it hidden away in a jacket pocket. What he didn't realize was that whenever the dancer was rubbing up against that pocket the phone was dialing out to his contact list, several of whom were co-workers who ended up with voicemails of loud club music and the sound of him talking to a stripper. I still laugh about it. He's still horrified, although employed.

This is why you shouldn't club on the same night as lopaw. She'll be macking on the hottest dancers while we're still at home washing our dicks.

:-)

SJG

The strip club is the one place where being a nice guy has actually worked for me. My theory is this. I have been a customer for awhile at various clubs. Yes, I want to get extras and sleep with most of the women. But, being labeled a nice guy in the real world sucks. But, in the fantasy world, it works. These women get treated so horribly and told so many rotten things during their shift that when someone is polite to them and nice, they eat it up.

Timex345 makes some good points.

Agreed!

SJG