review comment
a month ago
By the way if you want to read the Phoenix code see https://phoenix.municipal.codes/CC/6-15
review comment
a month ago
Phoenix ordinance is far worse but hasn't been enforced for years. Christian group wrote it "to protect children and neighborhoods." Lap dances could not be in laps but had to have legs over the arms of chairs. Even a stand-up fully clothed by all hug technically was illegal since dirty body parts (including breasts, even if under clothing) were touched. I knew some club owners who were ticketed for the slightest infraction and had to either close for like 10 days or pay large fines. Local TV ran reports of undercovers spending long hours as customers looking for the slightest infraction, asking if this was a good use of police resources.
I testified at city council hearings against the proposal as well as when making swing clubs illegal (I don't mean dancing). Both ordinances were passed as an emergency measure without the normal waiting period to be effective. I was on the legal committee for the big swing club Chameleon that appealed to the 9th Circuit but lost.
discussion comment
2 months ago
OOps posted too soon... Also panic buttons in private areas, required security etc. You obviously can not violate WA prostitution laws but at least this was by and for the safety of strippers, even though a bit extreme.
BTW included in required education is how to identify sex trafficking, sexual abuse and even first aid training. Also, a banned customer list has to be maintained for 2-3 years. Included is no longer city ban on alcohol sales which resulted in large dancer "lease" fees which are now restricted since clubs can also make money now on liquor sales vs previously in some cities, like Seattle etc.
discussion comment
2 months ago
There are also legal issues. In Phoenix, the ordinance says we have to have cameras monitoring any private room, and one club has had repeated busts and prostitution charges.
The Phoenix law is probably the most restrictive in the US you had to straddle a chair arms to do lap dances since your lap can not touch the male front. Technically if both fully dressed, can not to a close standing hug since breasts would touch the mans chest and lower body contact.
As a local TV reported undercovers would sit for hours in clubs looking for the slightest contact. I knew some owners who had to close for 2 weeks or face large fines for the slightest contact.
The law was to "protect children and neighborhoods" by a Christian group dedicated to pass similar laws all over the US to save the children etc. I testified against the ordinance at city hearings and also against the new massage laws.
Fortunately, the extreme restrictions are no longer enforced, although pre-covid, a club had various solicitation of prostitution charges against some dancers.
At least the just signed by Gov of Washington State new strip club rules that was broad on by a stripper group "Strippers are workers" is more stripper protection but with mandatory training, ediquette rules posted for costomers
discussion comment
3 months ago
They were not just drunk. They were drugged apparently in their drinks, and it seemed that after they passed out, their wallets and cell phones were stealing their credit cards to make the charges. Other reports go into police report details.
I also have looked up owners criminal/civil court records. There could be a movie made from it including attack on owner in his home, fight with the pawn shop guy, huge amounts of money loan sharked etc.
review comment
3 months ago
Widely reported in Phoenix media:
Drugged customers, charged credit cards for $1 million
A class action lawsuit has been filed against multiple companies who are the owners of Skin Cabaret, Bones Cabaret, and Dream Palace in Scottsdale and Tempe. These three establishments are known as “sister clubs” and are situated along Scottsdale Road.
According to court papers, the businesses were responsible for a plan in which customers were given drugs, followed by the theft of their wallets and cellphones. The lawsuit stated that while the victims were unconscious, pictures were taken of them and their signatures were fraudulently used to make charges on their credit cards.
Nearly 20 alleged victims are suing these clubs The complaint accuses ownership of racketeering, conspiracy and several other allegations.and records show there are more people with similar experiences.
Various sources including
https://www.allaboutarizonanews.com/arizona-strip-clubs-being-sued-for-drugging-customers-and-embezzling-1-1-million/?cmid=a6fdc539-74ad-4d3d-a302-5b330a1d5372&utm_source=pocket_saves
review comment
3 months ago
Widely reported in Phoenix media:
Drugged customers, charged credit cards for $1 million
A class action lawsuit has been filed against multiple companies who are the owners of Skin Cabaret, Bones Cabaret, and Dream Palace in Scottsdale and Tempe. These three establishments are known as “sister clubs” and are situated along Scottsdale Road.
According to court papers, the businesses were responsible for a plan in which customers were given drugs, followed by the theft of their wallets and cellphones. The lawsuit stated that while the victims were unconscious, pictures were taken of them and their signatures were fraudulently used to make charges on their credit cards.
Nearly 20 alleged victims are suing these clubs The complaint accuses ownership of racketeering, conspiracy and several other allegations.and records show there are more people with similar experiences.
Various sources including
https://www.allaboutarizonanews.com/arizona-strip-clubs-being-sued-for-drugging-customers-and-embezzling-1-1-million/?cmid=a6fdc539-74ad-4d3d-a302-5b330a1d5372&utm_source=pocket_saves
review comment
3 months ago
Widely reported in Phoenix media:
Drugged customers, charged credit cards for $1 million
A class action lawsuit has been filed against multiple companies who are the owners of Skin Cabaret, Bones Cabaret, and Dream Palace in Scottsdale and Tempe. These three establishments are known as “sister clubs” and are situated along Scottsdale Road.
According to court papers, the businesses were responsible for a plan in which customers were given drugs, followed by the theft of their wallets and cellphones. The lawsuit stated that while the victims were unconscious, pictures were taken of them and their signatures were fraudulently used to make charges on their credit cards.
Nearly 20 alleged victims are suing these clubs The complaint accuses ownership of racketeering, conspiracy and several other allegations.and records show there are more people with similar experiences.
Various sources including
https://www.allaboutarizonanews.com/arizona-strip-clubs-being-sued-for-drugging-customers-and-embezzling-1-1-million/?cmid=a6fdc539-74ad-4d3d-a302-5b330a1d5372&utm_source=pocket_saves
review comment
4 months ago
No many of us do not tip. They are making more money than many clients, and tipping is for minimum wage workers who rely on tips.
In addition, it could be considered racist to tip since it started for black railroad porters who only made tips. It is just silly to tip a dancer or any professional sexworker. Never in 40 years have I tipped a dancer or escort and never was an issue.
In most of Asia, tipping is an insult. When in Germany, just rounded up to the nearest Euro in restaurants, so don't deal with change.
review comment
4 months ago
I am an old dude. Used to enjoy Sugar more with sensual floor dances but have avoided in last few years. Many dancers do not allow sucking even in VIP which I support their right to limits. Any lap dances technically violate the Phoenix strip club ordinance but has not been enforced for many years. Even a fully clothed hug is illegal, so when enforced, dancers had to straddle the arms of the chair so they were not in the lap. I knew some owners who were shut down or fined for the slightest infraction. Even exposed on local TV how undercovers would spend long nights in clubs watching for any physical contact with dirty parts. I spoke against the new law at City Counsel hearings (and the law that made swing clubs illegal).
I have never understood these silly right terms like wokeness. To me, wokeness means facts and science, not lies and misinformation similar to dictatorships.
As for the war - both sides have some facts that are legitimate. The only solution is for 2 states and not illegal takeovers of lands. Yet the other side's aim is to destroy Israel, who, with some truth, took over their land as well as the illegal settlements in the West Bank. However, the extreme emotional vs fact-based views on both sides result in the current mess and many innocents being killed.
discussion comment
4 months ago
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shailynnThey never tell you what you need to know.
In the major cities of Canada (Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver), as soon as the Nordic model was passed after prior law that outlawed incalls and agencies (outcall always legal), the police announced no change in enforcement unless underaged or trafficked against will.
The prior law stuck down by the Ontario Supreme Court in one of the most comprehensive opinions ever since it violated the Charter of Rights based on the "safety of persons". I.e. it is much safer when legal.
Then the conservative parliament passed the basically Nordic Model. However, police realized in the major cities, this made it more risky and refused to enforce it.
There have been arrests and cases in some more conservative smaller cities of C36 (new law). I have kind of lost track, but for the cases, I recall, 3 declared C36 unconstitutional against the Charter - related to safety - and 1 case was lost.
Latest I have heard is the "Crown" has not appealed to the Federal Supreme Court of Canada (which upheld the striking down the old law).
A few years ago I had an outcall to my hotel who never showed up. We connected later and she told me she was stopped by police in my hotel parking lot. How they knew she was an escort is unknown. She was with an agency so had a driver. The police only were interested if she was a consenting adult. She assured them she was and she was free to go and see me. However, she was a bit rattled and decided to contact me later and not show up.
There are zillions of great agencies in the major cities (especially Toronto and Montreal) that have drivers and detailed bios and pictures of all the escorts. It works wonderfully and safely, and if there is ever a bad client, there is no hesitation to report it to the police. The drivers that return the gals from the outcalls call about 5 minutes before time is up and if the escort doesn't pick up or return say after 10-15 minutes they will go to the room and if anything suspect will call hotel security or the police, although I have not heard that happening. Most agencies require names and, of course, hotel info, so if any problem will blacklist the client or report to police if attacked or something, again never heard of it happening.
The result is the police go after underaged or suspected trafficked against their will and do not waste police resources going after private consenting adults.
discussion comment
5 months ago
77 I have been going to strip clubs, escorts etc for at least 40 years. I have always enjoyed tender touch intimacy vs the usual sex stuff.
discussion comment
5 months ago
The Silly Idea of Tipping in the US vs most of the world for professional services.
I have been seeing dancers at strip clubs, escorts, and massage parlors for about 40 years and have NEVER tipped, and it was never an issue.
I think the weird American idea of tipping is ridiculous other than minimum level wages such as restaurants with tip credit wages, but not professional sex workers like dancers, etc.
In Germany, just round to the nearest dollar, in Asia, tipping is often considered an insult, like in American history.
Tipping spread after the Civil War as an exploitative measure to keep down wages of newly freed slaves in service occupations. Pullman was the most notable for its tipping policies. The railroad company hired thousands of Black porters but paid them low wages and forced them to rely on tips to make a living.
Tipping has been viewed as an imbalance between customers and workers, and several states passed laws in the early 1900s to ban the practice. In “The Itching Palm,” a 1916 diatribe on tipping in America, writer William Scott said that tipping was “un-American” and argued that “the relation of a man giving a tip and a man accepting it is as undemocratic as the relation of master and slave.”
That is how it started in the US, but if sex workers want to be considered professionals as I view them, we certainly do not need to tip them. Some make more money on an hourly basis than most customers.
Tipping how silly- I will now duck into my foxhole for incoming potential fire.
review comment
5 months ago
Hi, Heel and BigTim hope you're doing well.
I keep wanting to get back to clubs but have been terribly busy in business and, like Heel, almost always go at night, as well as a Raven Fan often with our old group that used to go together. Great memories. It looks like other than Raven on her two nights, I need to get to the day shift. Heel always had great detailed reviews, and I have enjoyed meeting him a few times, as well, of course, many times BigTim.
review comment
5 months ago
Estrella I assume is not Estella. Estrella goes back like 20 years and really enjoyed her before her breast enhancement. But she always found me but I only did one dance after enhancement. I haven't seen her named in reviews for a few years, so I assume she has retired and doubt she is your Estella - but names sound similar!
review comment
5 months ago
Looks like I can not edit the comment but found the address problem from the 2017 review I did:
3rd year I have noted address is wrong on their website which I always mention to the gals. The site says Windor when its Royal Windsor Dr. First time years ago had a hard time finding since GPS couldn't find any "Windor." http://www.puregoldclub.ca/
review comment
5 months ago
I haven't been here since a few years before the pandemic, but other than being so far out from Toronto or Sauga, where I usually stay, I especially enjoyed the, in general, more sensual Eastern Europeans. They also had 2 for 1 dance specials early in the week; wonder if they still do. Also, dances were $20, but it seems now are $25. The VIP areas were nice, and I kind of liked the tables with high chairs; I often sat between the dance area and the back bar. I also recall the address was wrong even on their sign and the first time there long ago got lost until I figured it out. I think the name of the street was spelled wrong. I don't think it was just with or without the Royal in the address which differs on some sites.
discussion comment
5 months ago
Ah, yes, I think it was the old bookmarks. It is now very hard to find just new posts for cities without going through them all, especially in a large metro area like Phoenix. I also note in the AZ listing by city that some Phoenix clubs - Sugar and Bourbon Street, nor Bones in Scottsdale -are listed as Paradise Valley. There are no strip clubs in Paradise Valley, a very high-income elite area for the most part.
review comment
6 months ago
Greetings! Is $300-$500 correct? I thought you were more like me and not that big of a spender, but your reviews are always great and, of course, have been great when we meet at Sugar with your amazing memory!!. Of course, I am another Raven fan, but it's been a long time since I've been so busy.
My last visit was in July - you must have an old Coupon. Ryan did remove the expiration date; I printed out about a dozen this summer and just checked the website. It looks like the site was redone and has no expired coupon.
I have been favoring Bourbon Street since they seem to be roaming on the floor more, but again, not since July. No $20 fee to go to the VIP, and still $20/song last I went to the VIP.
review comment
6 months ago
Don't assume most of us like big butts and breasts. Anything larger than C is a turnoff for me. I only look for slimmer, natural breasts and not big butts. Most of the guys I know that go to strip clubs, also prefer naturals but maybe I am just in a different group!
review comment
7 months ago
I assume this is the same PT club that has to close for 2 weeks in January to settle prostitution and indecent exposure charges?
https://www.westword.com/news/denver-pts-showclub-closing-temporarily-to-settle-prostitution-case-18361471
discussion comment
9 months ago
The guy that was killed was very drunk and was being kicked out of the club. That is no excuse but one of the new owners (big guy who owns another club and part of the group with the other family that owns many) met with me for about 30 min when the big room was just a storage area with most chairs piled up. Yes, it was great in the old days. Understand the old big area is now for VIP but haven't been there for many years but might check it out. The nude side was terrible toward the end vs. the old days in the big topless area. I never did the VIP off the main large area but enjoyed dances in area off in back? of large area but wasn't the more expensive VIP if I recall correctly.
Was an interesting story of how the owner almost scared me to death when approached me wanting to talk knowing who I was on the boards and my websites. A dancer had told him I was there. But very nice and tried to tell me openly their side of the story, how the law firm working on liquor license etc.
review comment
9 months ago
Evergreen98 - Hopefully, you are wrong on the comment only hire... with large breasts on your list. I know I am rare but am turned off by large (more than C) breasts. I have found dancers of all breast sizes including my preferred smaller. But yes great, most are slim and attractive more than it seems most other clubs.
review comment
9 months ago
Mate27: Being a nerd with a CPA background, I figured over the long-term, based on current rates it returned me about 7%/year return on my investment with virtually no risk. I did lots of research and went with Enphase Microinverters with a 25-year guarantee. As rates go up, the return increases. No roof issues, have had almost 3 years, and have a negative balance with APS. Realize this is not on topic!
review comment
10 months ago
You also said the arm band is both $20 and $25 in two places. I believe it is $25 and she asked for tips? Have never had that happen and of course never tipped a dancer a silly American thing from the slave days (Railroad Porters" It is an insult in much of Asia and mostly just round up to nearest Euro in Europe. She is not a minimum wage worker and I treat them as professionals who I certainly don't tip no matter how great the dances. Lately have enjoyed Bourbon Street more since $20 VIP and no entry fee and unlike in the past years they seem to be working the floor more.
Back a few years they did $10 floor dances at 44, with lots of contact basically what you can do in the VIP. But now many dancers don't allow much contact on the floor so I find Bourbon Street much better at $20/dance in VIP. Just got back today and am doing review.