In the news is a story about some crazy shit that went down at Cornell University, an Ivy League school. For those not familiar...
The news reports and the lawsuit both omit a few other relevant facts about the accuser and the accused like:
The 20 y/o female accuser is apparently from Alabama and white. There's no indication she was a pledge. So one can assume she was a full sorority member. Thus had gone through the sorority's initiation hazing rituals and willingly participated in Greek life at Cornell for 2 years. Which pretty much negates all her arguments against the university, fraternity and sorority that she wasn't aware about the dangers of Greek life at the time of the alleged rape.
Her "friend" (identified as Ingalls) appears to be your typical spoiled rich kid. His father is from some old privileged Waspy family, went to Tufts then Yale and is a professor of some bullshit "International Studies" at American University in Dubai. Kid probably grew up entitled and taught from an early age to treat most people like shit. One can assume the female accuser thought this dude was either her boyfriend or boyfriend material. But the facts show he obviously thought she was just another sorority slut.
The first dude that participated in the threesome with the accuser and the "friend" Ingalls is identified as Newell and is Black.
The dude that participated in the second threesome with the accuser and Ingalls is identified as Lee and is Oriental.
And two of the dudes who sniffed ketamine off the accuser's naked body were Latino.
Considering the accuser is from Alabama and white...y'all know what her friends and family in the Deep South thought about her morals after learning she had been in a gang bang where she was fondled by a bunch of hispanics, boned by an Oriental, not to mention the ultimate sin- "blacked"! Put on top of that, her dumbass "friend" (Ingalls) basically dumped her by text message the next morning. And for good measure dis-invited her to a party.
Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned!
So my take is she's now trying to save her reputation by claiming she was raped. I'm not saying those dudes didn't do anything morally wrong or that they're not dirt bags. But the rape allegation seems ridiculous! What y'all think?
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There's a big difference between "he said, she said" and "they said, she said". If the accused are questioned separately, their answers are consistent, and there's no good evidence they colluded in a false story, their version will have strong credibility. Otherwise, there's no real way to rebut the accuser's version of events.
With the sex that happened after the "free pussy" post, it's a tall order to prove it's consensual. Are they going to claim she said she wanted to have sex with everyone in the frat?
@ilbbaicnl The process is the punishment. Even if these guys get let off the hook, which they likely will. They will have been indicted and charged with rape, fired from their jobs, have their name drug through mud, had to pay thousands in legal fees defending themselves in criminal / civil court. All because society needs to believe all Wahmen!
Funny how this case just suddenly hits (happened in 2024 and prosecutors cited a lack of evidence.) in NY State right before the November midterms.
Its like those migrant caravans that always magically appear on FOX news right before important elections for the Republicans.
@Someguyontheinternet As James very pointedly indicated, the decision to seek an indictment has not yet been made. But, of course, the rule with these things is, never take anyone at their word if it ruins the hissy fit fun.
@ilbbaicnl So basically you are saying the accused have not been indicted yet, even though the governor of NY state has gone on television, talked about the case, appointed a special prosecutor, etc. etc. Regardless of if they get indicted or not several of them have lost their jobs and had their reputations impugned. Being accused of rape is a big deal and it is hard to shake the stench of such an accusation.
I am not saying these guys are saints, they most likely aren't; but this whole thing reeks of a a witch hunt to further divide men and women and score political points before mid term elections.
I hope these dudes can sue New York State for millions.
Also, when I was in college we had several high profile rape cases at the universities in the state where I lived that ended with the accused being acquitted.
In one such case some foreign students raped a chick and than when they caught wind that the police were going to investigate them and bring charges they immediately fled back to their home country. The police and University were so embarrassed by this incident that they started a witch hunt to prove they were serious about punishing rape.
Some star football player chad who consensually pumped a sorority Stacy at a frat party and than dumped her the next day got charged with rape and eventually acquitted by a jury. The verdict hinged on text messages between her and Chad where she was slobbering on his cock. After Chad pumped and dumped her she texted a friend that she "thought she might have been raped".
In another case some chick went to the police and claimed she was raped on campus. The police did a thorough investigation and when they could not find a single shred of evidence she admitted that she made the whole thing up for attention.
The lesson here is: (A) Never trust a ho. (B) Record your interactions and have a paper trail to prove things were consensual.
@Someguyontheinternet They can probably sue, winning the suit is another thing. Yes, lying to LE, and police and politician grandstanding are very, very bad. The grandstanding would stop if there wasn't so many idiots who lick it up.
Do you think maybe some or all of these 7 guys could have been more discreet, so this woman's reputation would not have been so impugned? If she's honestly a raging nympho under the influence, shouldn't they have been filled with gratitude for having an experience most men can only dream of?
@ilbbaicnl Bringing Social Media into the mix is tarded'. I guess the bros where bragging about it on a group chat and that is where the trouble began. The girl sensed that her reputation had been damaged so now it went from some sort of drunken Greek life sexual encounter to the R word. Got to save face, can't just chalk it up to being a young and dumb college student.
@Someguyontheinternet How can you be so sure it's the frat girl that's lying, and not the frat boys? About 20% of women in the US have been raped. I doubt it's even 1% who want to get gangbanged, no matter how drunk they are. Rape seems statistically more likely.
From what I read everyone was high/drunk and lost control. Ketamine was involved. I never tried it but I read it will fuck you up. I have no respect or sympathy for anyone involved, not the frat “boys” and especially not Cornell or the “victim”, who was a self proclaimed slut.
Btw - Ivy League students will do as many stupid, irresponsible things as any young men and women anywhere. I’ve been a guest lecturer at U of Pennsylvania about the industry I work in. The students were fine but not anymore insightful about critical issues than young people elsewhere I’ve worked with.
Google “New Jersey State Police KatManDu rape”. Similar case. Bunch of off duty troopers gangbanged a drunk college student. Rape allegations. In the end - No criminal charges and they all kept their jobs
There is apparently a quirk of NY law under which an alleged rape victim cannot claim lack of consent based on voluntary impairment, unless they are actually unconscious at the time of the assault. If true, then there are unlikely to be prosecutions here and, if there are prosecutions, there are unlikely to be guilty verdicts and, if there are guilty verdicts, they would likely be overturned on appeal.
These guys are still morally in the wrong, however. Criminal law aside, anybody should recognize there are consent issues if you wander into a gangbang of an obviously impaired woman. Therefore, I would be perfectly fine if they were “ruined”. But they won’t be. They won’t be relegated to a lifetime of hot roofing, landscaping, or picking produce in the Imperial Valley. They may get dismissed from their current plum positions their parents secured for them by calling in favors, but they’ll find some other job that maybe isn’t quite as nice.
This incident will fade rapidly from public memory, and fewer and fewer people will have any occasion to associate these guys with it. For those that do, this will go down in memory like the Duke Lacrosse Team thing where people write it off as a railroad job.
There were apparently another 40-50 frat boys on the group chat announcing that this thing was going down who didn’t participate, but didn’t do anything to shut it down. No legal or career repercussions there, but hopefully there will at least be pangs of regret.
@Manuellabore The damage is already done regardless of if criminal charges get pressed or not. This has already become a national news story, these dudes lost their jobs, their relationships with their families strained, they are going to have to shell out large sums of money to lawyers. These guys may be Douchebags but last time I checked being a Douchebag wasn’t a criminal offense. The problem with this case is there is so much contradictory and exculpatory evidence.
Inebriated college slut gets gangbanged by Frat bros and then later regrets it. News at 11.
Also from what I understand the alleged victim is trying to file a civil suit. That suit would be DOA if there are no criminal charges.
As if we need one more nail in the coffin for the absolutely dismal relations between men and women in this country.
@Someguyontheinternet Civil lawsuit filed September 19. The frat boys are among the named defendants, but, at their age, are unlikely to have pots to pee in that would make the suit worthwhile. Even if their families have money, that can't be touched, and you can't purchase liability insurance against assault claims. The big-money targets are the local Greek chapters and their national organizations, which would be insured against these claims, as is a bar that is named, presumably for overserving somebody involved.
A civil suit could fare better than a criminal case. The burden of proof (preponderance of the evidence) is less stringent than the criminal standard of proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Also, the NY law that says voluntary intoxication precludes a finding of lack of consent is a criminal rule that would not apply in a civil case. Therefore, if the evidence shows that Jane Doe was obviously impaired to a point where consent was not possible while these men were pulling a train on her, the jury could find them civilly liable for sexual assault, which would be a predicate for the Greek organizations' potential liability for lack of oversight/supervision, etc.
@Manuellabore You are correct in the sense that these young guys don’t have assets that they can go after. Their families might though. But I am no legal scholar.
As I said earlier the criminal charges give the civil suit credence. If the criminal charges get tossed than it will be much more difficult to prevail in a civil suit against the University or Greek Organizations.
At the end of the day I think this girl was convinced by money grubbing attorneys that she has a case and will get a fat payout. This shit is in the same league as the Diddy scandal where the plaintiffs folded within 30 minutes of cross examination by Diddy’s attorney.
Another thing: It seems odd seeing one of these supposedly hot shit frat boys use the phrase "free pussy" in their chat, like he assumed all the others would know what he is talking about. When I was in my teens and 20s (hell, until I was in my 60s) ALL pussy was automatically, and presumptively, "free". Are these losers already into P4P, or is there a coded message in that phrase?
@Manuellabore "Free pussy" might also imply "no dinner and a movie needed, or something like "There's a party favor at the house. No party hats needed."
From the news summaries, sounds like these frat boys, true to the stereotype, were sadistic. When the woman agreed to the three-way, it seems they assumed she was a masochist, and they went to town with their sadism. So the prosecution may argue that whatever apparent consent she gave was coerced.
When you read some of the posts on this website, you can understand where the opponents of legal sex work are coming from. You can see why they'd think no woman in her right mind would let us touch her with a ten foot pole, no matter how badly she needed money.
Letitia James, the least comptetent Attorney General in history and an anti male bigot is in charge pf the investigation now. She went into it already having decided the men are guilty, so the idea that they will get a fair trial in New York is beyond absurd.
I do not know the laws in NY, but intoxication always makes consent unclear. Even when there is clear consent, there are plenty of examples of a girl changing her mind (after her friends and family find out), and then that one night stand becomes a rape case to save her reputation.
However, I do not believe this to be the case at Cornell. Gangbangs are not normal Greek life behavior - even for entitled rich kids at elite Ivy League institutions. And even if the girl had given consent, and this is what she wanted, sending group texts out bragging about it makes these guys a bunch of scumbags. Despite this, I feel bad that so many young lives are getting ruined over one night of bad decisions.
Megyn Kelly has done a deep dive and multiple shows on this incident. The girl met a frat bro at a bar and went back to his house after the bar (she was under 21). There, she did some ketamine and drank some more. The bro asked if she was down for a threesome and she consented. Threesome ensues. Now, it's unclear how many threesomes she participated in that evening. Some guys asked for access and she declined they accepted. The first two guys whe was in the threesome left the orgy early (one passed out mid-coitus and the other puked). Two older brothers showed up and told them up to knock it off (they didn't). It ended shortly before 6AM when she announced that she was tired and the boys stopped when she asked them to. There are multiple text chains and legal police interviews where she proclaimed multiple times that it was all consensual, she likes threesomes, and she was cogent the entire night. There was no reason to file charges, hence the male participants were not indicted. This is a good time to point out that the men were all drunk and snorting Ketamine with her. Hell, one passed out and the other puked before her second threesome. She's a regular energizer bunny. Then, after she became tired of her rep as the college whore, the frat president decided she was a bad influence and would not be invited back to the frat house. Simultaneously, she has all these wacked-out, blue-haired, septum-pierced, patriarchy-blaming, college fembot "friends" insisting to her that she was SA'ed and that she needs to appreciate her trauma. At some point there was a Cornell Kangaroo Court that resulted in some disciplinary measures against some the students, but no criminal prosections (because she told the cops it was consensual). Now, two years later, she files the civil case. Then Kathy Hochul assigns a DA who is well-known for re-writing the law and ignoring the facts to prosecute these young men. Nothing that happened to anyone that night in the frat house is going to be as damaging and morally corrupt as what Letitia James enjoys to do to innocent men on a daily basis. This is contemptible and blatantly un-American. There is no justice in New York and decent people should not live there.
Bottom line, the boys were idiots and completely lacking in good judgement and moral behavior. The girl was an absolute slut who showed no judgement or moral character at all. Cornell only cares about the damage to its institutional reputation and will destroy these boys or the girl if necessary to protect itself. New York politicians are disgusting opportunists who enjoy trampling innocents (especially white men from well-off families) to score virtue signalling points. This is a post-modern, late Gen-Z example of one piece of pussy destroying multiple lives.
Back when I was in college, there was a girl in my dorm who, according to the proud perpetrators, was gang raped. Back then, if a girl got drunk enough to pass out at a party, that was considered consent. She already had a rep for hooking up. But she never became a social outcast. She had lots of male friends (who she didn't fuck), because she atypically did not condescend to guys for lack of chadness. Likewise, she had little use for condescending people, so little reason to care that she had a slut rep. (She loved waiving her straight-A semester grades in the faces of the slut shamers.) I think that's a much more typical scenario. But, wank all you want to the social climber turned porn queen by booze and drugs wet dream.
It is rape. They likely dont have a case. Cornell fucked this up.
^ well put
Not rape, just left wing bullshit. progressives are a tumor on America.
Accepting that what @TheOne&Only reports is true, these boys are still cooked. Claims of sexual assault are impossible to beat - especially once they get into the public domain. That’s why young men - especially those with means or from wealthy families need to understand that they can be targets (sometimes premeditated, often after the fact). If I had sons I’d constantly be reminding them of this. It’s not much different than the old story of the girl telling the pro athlete or celebrity (nowadays the NIL millionaires on campus) that she’s on the pill so she can get pregnant and get paid. I don’t necessarily think that this is the case at Cornell, but these boys should have been more aware of their vulnerabilities. Facts or laws cannot beat a sexual assault charge - especially when it is as egregious sounding (to the non-TUSCL world) as a gang rape.
@Iknowbetter I think the guy who suggested the the 3-way must have realized Jane Doe was crushing on him, not just looking for a hookup. So he's like a ROB, only orders of magnitude worse.
For all you guys simping for the Jane Doe in this case. Hope you gents don’t do any consensual “extras” with a stripper in the VIP who later regrets it and can get you charged criminally to lay the groundwork for suing the club for creating an unsafe environment where she was SA’ed. Also she had a thimble of alcohol in her system and was just a naive young stripper who had bills to pay and felt coerced by the prospect of money.
After all the law is based on precedent and you know where this is inevitably headed. Make sure you have her sign a consent form with two forms of ID before you do a private room!
@Someguyontheinternet Jeez, don't judge. Nobody's judging you for simping to get gang ass-fucked by frat boys.
I briefly skimmed the article linked by the OP, read another analysis by a lawyer claiming some late-breaking news from the original DA, and watched lengthy video op-ed from NY detective. The article was riddled with bias and inaccuracies, and the lawyers' revelations were contradictory to what the detective claimed to have read in the statements. This is going to be a bigger and worse mess than the Lindsay Clancy thing.
So I read the article linked by the OP. Those are no doubt some serious allegations. I have also read differing accounts of what supposedly happened from different sources; which has skewed my perspective. I believe the article linked conveniently omits some other stuff, but that is beyond the point.
This is serious business and I am not trying to make light of it. Seriously, don't ever do anything with a female unless there is explicit consent and she is of a sound state of mind.
If the Jane Doe in question was physically incapacitated and could not make any conscious decisions than I would say she was indeed raped, because she could not provide consent. If that is the case, than those guys are at fault and deserve to suffer the consequences.
What complicates this is (A) the police declined to move forward with charges because they did not feel there was adequate evidence. This was in liberal New York which is a literal police state, not backwoods Alabama. (B) There are allegedly text messages which could be construed as consent or at the very least exculpatory evidence. (C) She is also suing for monetary damages which is always suspect in this day and age. (D) People lie about this stuff on occasion and the old saying "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" is no joke. Ultimately this will turn in to a she said, they said unless the plaintiff can provide corroborating evidence.
If this goes to trial I would say things will hinge on jury selection and how the jury "feels" in the pit of their stomachs; hard evidence be damned. If the jury is 11 post-wall cat ladies and one male juror who isn't swayed...things could get interesting.
Also, just to put things in perspective. P. Diddy was arrested, imprisoned, and of accused of some heinous shit. I mean the allegations were wild. All sorts of rumors swirling of operating a massive criminal enterprise, blackmailing celebrity's, human trafficking, etc. etc. Peoples imaginations just ran wild. When the trial finally came the defense rested their case in less than 30 minutes after cross examining the plaintiffs; who were also conveniently trying to sue his ass in civil court (Diddy was worth close to 1 Billion at the time).
Is Diddy a saint? No.
The guy was guilty of throwing some freaky ass parties involving sex workers. They could never pin any of the serious charges on him because the evidence could not stand on its own two feet. Ultimately I believe he did get convicted of one thing which was some prohibition era law about transporting Sex Workers across state lines or something. But it bore no resemblance to accusations being made.
My opinion (not based on facts or law) is that one boy or even 2 (the original threesome) could be defensible. But 7 (possibly more watching) and the fact that they sent a group chat of “free pussy upstairs” makes this case indefensible, regardless of facts or law. Unfortunately these boys are going down - along with Cornell administrators and other collateral damage. Just a bad situation all around.
@Iknowbetter I think this sums it up pretty well. Sounds like she consented to the original threesome but couldn't possibly consent to the rest of them after all the alcohol and ketamine was done
@Iknowbetter Settings matter. In the towns where I grew up and went to college, there would be occasional talk of girls (females under 25 were all "girls" then) "pulling trains" (don't recall if the term "gangbang" was in common use back then). Who knows how many actually happened and how many were just rumors? I was never present and wouldn't have participated, not necessarily on moral grounds (had even fewer morals back then than I do now), but because I didn't want "sloppy seconds" or worse (I didn't grow up hoping to become an extras hound at SCs where it's a luxury if your only the dancer's "second" of the shift).
By the time I was in my mid/late 20s, I realized that most of those "gangbangs" or "trains" I had heard about, if they happened at all, were almost certainly gang rapes. And people I had known and associated with had bragged to me about participating.
I realize that there are Berlin News Agency type setups and organized swingers-type parties where women who are truly "into it" show up with the avowed intent of fucking a lot of men. Consent is established in advance. And god knows how many men a dancer at Pleasant Moments or another extras-heavy club screws in a shift, but that's purely commercial. But if your a male of any age and you're out at a party or a bar looking to get some drinks and meet and maybe hook up with a woman, you're taking a huge risk screwing a woman who just screwed another guy, especially if she doesn't even leave the room between encounters. I have zero sympathy for anybody who is too dum to realize that.
I'm happy to let the courts resolve the Cornell thing, and accept the results. Sometimes I don't like the results, but I've never been one of the people who sat in the jury box for days and weeks on end, listened to the judge's instructions on the law, and then discussed all that will 5-12 people who had been through the same thing.
The reality is, the civil case will get settled for a confidential sum. There will be huge political pressure on the AG to file criminal charges, whether she decides they are warranted or not. It does appear that there is info the Tompkins County DA was not personally aware of when he decided not to file charges. Whether or not it would have made a difference is another matter. If criminal charges are filed and are not legally or factually supportable, then either the judge or the jury will take care of the matter.
@Manuellabore I also only heard about pulling trains. I think the one that was depicted in the movie "Saturday Night Fever" might have been typical of many of them. (As well as the girl being passed out.) If girls get treated with contempt as they're growing up, it seems normal to them. When they get attention from chads, they won't expect it to be entirely positive attention. Likewise, when you see PLs get strung along for months with prospects of being more than just a customer, they likely also grew up being treated with contempt.
I'd agree about waiting to see the outcome in the legal system. Which is far from perfect, but better than going with whatever the internet pulls out of its ass.
I'd be surprised if the AG is as dumb about this as the prosecutor was in the Duke Lacrosse case. Good chance she'll punt, and present it to a grand jury. She already got scolded by an appeals judge about the civil case against Trump. The judge saw reason to think that what Trump did with his loan applications might have been common practice, and he was singled out for political reasons.
@Manuellabore My Freshman year of college like within the first two weeks all of the dudes and bros in a separate section of my dorm floor ran a train on some chick. It was all consensual because these guys had game. Seriously.
These guys knew how to pull pussy out of a hat in an environment that was basically Anchorage Alaska; and basically lived to drink, fight, cause trouble, smoke weed, ski / snowboard and party. Daddy was paying all their bills and had a lucrative job lined up at his construction firm when Chad graduated with his communications degree.
The girl was super hot, and when you factor in how abysmal the attractiveness of the average female was at this school, she was extra-super fuckin hot. I swear some guys just have it and the rest of us schmucks don't. Testosterone is one hell of a drug.
Of course I never took part in any of this stuff, nor was I ever invited because I was focused on my education and playing by the rules. Obtaining my degree to get a well-paying job was my primary goal.
The fact is this kind of stuff just happens. Young college aged chicks are away from home for the first time and in a coed environment and this shit just happens. When a group of 6'3" drunken Chads proposes a gang bang there is a set of Women who will say "Yes" with out hesitation. They will also regret it later in life but it doesn't change the fact that they said yes and were sober and everything was consensual.
@Someguyontheinternet How can you be sure it actually happened? If these guys thought starting fights was fun, stands to reason they'd think it was fun to make up stories about people to cause problems for them. If it did happen, how can you be sure she was down for it?
@Someguyontheinternet Yeah, but are these women consenting because they think they'll enjoy all these guys pounding on them or are they "consenting" so these drunken apes won't beat the shit out of them? If it's the latter, it definitely isn't consent; it's being coerced.
@PhantomGeek I don’t think these guys were threatening to beat a girl, nor was any of that stuff in the victim / witness testimony.
I don’t know if you have been to college or not, but I have. I was never involved in Greek life but knew people who were. The Sorority girls are basically groupies for the frat bros. They spend a shitload of time together and a fair amount of those girls get consumed with the whole lifestyle. A lot of them are very insecure and want to be accepted. There is social pressure to conform to the culture. Psychology 101 says people will do all kinds of stuff to fit in with the “in group”, including getting gang banged.
Here we are on a fucking strip club forum where men pay women to get naked and wag their titties in a man’s face and they somehow find it inconceivable that a Sorority sister would willingly partake in a drug fueled orgy in order to be part of the culture.
@Someguyontheinternet According to news reports, Jane Doe remembers being slapped hard, and she was bruised the day after. Unless a jury thinks she's lying about that, they'll probably conclude she had good reason to be afraid of the frat boys. You can't scare someone, then claim they voluntarily consented.
If you check out a YouTube channel called "Unbiased Politics with Jordan Berman" (@unbiasedjordan), she has a lot of information, direct from the DA and the victim's lawyer. There's more than one video.
@georgmicrodong and?
@sfrsox, and... more information, and more detail, than I feel like typing up here. If you're interested, go look it up. If not, don't.
No way she consented to having sex with all those losers, not to mention she probably wasn't in a position to consent, at least at the end, some of it. One of the very times I would agree with the ib
And certainly agree with iknowbetter
@sfrsox The thing is, it sounds like she was blacked out for a lot of it. So maybe she assumes she must have been passed out or in a stupor. But that's not always true. Often blacked out people can walk (or run) without being shaky, and participate in conversations pretty normally. Except they'll do or say things they wouldn't normally. But often drunk people in general will do or say things they wouldn't normally, so others can't reliably tell when someone is blacked out. Maybe the cops will put the seven guys in separate rooms, and tell them the first one who admits she was passed out or in a stupor gets a deal.
So the woman was too drunk and high to consent, but the guys weren't? Kind of funny there is nothing done until she files a civil suit seeking money and voila; now its a crime. In order to find her the victim one would have to believe that men are animals and no woman is a sexual being. Regret doesn't make past conduct of others a crime. To be fair the fact that Cornell is the epitome of a left-wing progressive piece of shit school does make this hysterically funny. At least at thanksgiving I won't have to hear from the Cornell grads how much their school was than poor me state school graduate.
@skibum609 The funny thing about feminism is that Women are strong and empowered individuals who can do anything a man can do, often times better!
At the same time Women are underprivileged victims living in a world exclusively dominated men. Women are physically and mentally incapable of providing consent due to the their innate victim status and the lopsided nature of male / female power dynamics. Women must be protected and coddled by the state. Also consent is a very nebulous term which can be revoked retroactively if a girl "wasn't feeling it" later in life.
@skibum609 the guys have the penises and the texts sent
@Someguyontheinternet you sound like some guy on the internet
@Someguyontheinternet- you pretty well defined the phenomenon of victim culture. This is a privilege extended to all victim classes - basically anyone other than white, non-Jewish men.
@Iknowbetter So how has anyone been unfairly punished here"? Students encouraged a fellow student to use an illegal drug, and then provided the drug, and they got expelled. Other than that, they've had problems with people jumping to conclusions, like you are.
@Iknowbetter There was a famous YouTube video where some old guy was basically like “What are Women complaining about? They got everything they ever wanted and they’re miserable!”
Women are no longer constrained by strong social mores or the church.
We are living in a post-feminist world where Women are free to do whatever they fuck they want and make whatever stupid choices they want to make.
Sometimes those choices will have negative consequences down the road which will conveniently be blamed on men or “the patriarchy”.
@Someguyontheinternet The issue at hand is whether everything sexual that happened to her happened by her choice. Or, as they say in court, objection, assumes facts not in evidence.
Bunch of weirdos on ketamine. Not fucking normal.
@Studme53 totally agree. Bunch of faggots. How gay!
I get the feeling that at the end of the day, none of this will matter. Because in 10-20 years, this case will be forgotten. Fraternities and sororities will continue doing what they've always done which is fuck until the end of time. At this point, I think both parents and the students alike should generally know what rushing for Greek life is going to entail at most universities. If they don't, that's just general naivety.
@thottiusmaximus I can easily see frats being regulated out of existence in 20 years, tbh.
@sfrsox Very unlikely to happen since fraternities have been a thing since like the 1800's.
@sfrsox Seriously. More power to the nanny state when these cases go to court. If feminists had their way fucking your wife would be illegal.
In most countries rape is defined is a man overpowers a woman and has his way with her. Or she is passed out unconscious or so severely high / intoxicated that consent is impossible to establish.
In this case the Jane Doe willingly partook in a gang bang and did drugs that turned into drumroll………an even bigger drug fueled gang bang.
@Someguyontheinternet It's seems unlikely that Jane Doe lied in her statements to the police. She could have made the case against the accused much stronger if she was making it up. So it seems likely the accused are vultures who took advantage of a classmate who got really wasted. So why should we feel sorry for them, that they may have to explain their actions in court under oath? Why should we feel sorry that they don't get to hide the evidence that they are vultures from potential employers, friends and girlfriends? Why was it OK for them to publicize their take on what happened that night, and cause bad problems for Jane Doe, but not OK for Jane Doe to publicize her take on what happened that night, and cause bad problems for them?
I loved being in a fraternity. Made my college experience far better than anyone else I have ever met. We did a different form of hazing and I always point to the last night of hazing as the single finest thing that ever happened to me..... in retrospect because that was the night I was taught to understand how my actions made others feel. Of course there were other things like 25 cent beers; free kegs; an exchange with a sorority or girls dorm every Thursday; late night (1 -5 am) bar every weekend night; homecoming; Mass Grass and of course Schlitzarama and our world record for college keg parties. I mean how can anyone with a 6 hour liquor license sell 365 kegs lol. You can google it, but the information is not correct as they mixed up Schlitzarama with the school sponsored spring fling concerts.
@skibum609 Dr J era or Marcus Camby/Lou Roe era?
@sfrsox 75-79 - missed em all. The only highlight of my Umass basketball experience was going to see them play Uconn in the Hartford civic center and waking up the next day to find out that the roof of the civic center had caved in overnight due to snow after we left. Umass played in the Curry Hicks Cage when I was there. Dirt track under the stands, pigeons flying around and exaclt 3 feet from the court to the first row of seats.
Tish James is in a pickle. The central defendant is from UAE and has returned home to Dubai which has no extradition treaty with US (he also counterclaimed that since he was passing out and the slut kept sucking he limp cock, it was he who was sexually assaulted), the other defendants are mixed race white/black complete with 'fro, hispanic (Portuguese), and Asian. Meanwhile, the complainant is a fat white girl from the South. Who has the greater claim to intersectionality and institutionalized discrimination?
@TheOne&Only actually Ingalls is apparently the accuser kept licking his asshole, that he was sodomized while "incapacitated" She probably learned that from some sorority sisters who are Latina. Latinas love to do that, that love to eat ass!
Lots of interesting comments. But not many address my OP which is it looks like a racial thing. Sort of a reverse Nolan Wells. The accuser is a white Southern Belle. The accused are African American, Oriental, Latino and a half breed. If I were them I'd call Ben Crump!
I'm sure when that sorority slut's friends and family back in Alabama found out about her gang bang, the only option she had was to convince them that it wasn't her fault, that she was "raped". She even called a bunch of those bruthas and tried to convince them to say on tape that the threesome wasn't her idea and that she was tricked into it. Probably to replay the tape to her parents and friends. When that didn't work she was probably pushed by her parents to sue to clear her name. Her good ole boy father probably was also hoping to get his tuition money back from Cornell after probably mortgaging their family home so this daughter could go to an Ivy League school to sow her oats instead of studying something that would give her employable job skills.
@vajmon "not many address my OP which is it looks like a racial thing" You know how it goes when you're in polite company and somebody cuts an audible fart and everybody acts like it didn't happen?
@vajmon The KKK is estimated to be down to under 10,000 members. If your theory were correct, their most effective recruiting slogan would be "The Klan -- if you're white, join up, and you can gangbang our daughters!". They'd pull in a lot more members than they do.
@Manuellabore good one! LOL
No way a Southern BElle even a fat one, consents to a guy from UAE
And fleeing seems like a sign of guilt to me. Especially fleeing an Ivy League school and at that age
@sfrsox Southern Belle admits she went to frat house to hook up with UAE guy- his father is from an old rich Waspy American family. Mom is Indian, probably was the cleaning lady the father banged. As far as going home to his parents in the UAE were he grew up, why not? Nobody gonna give him a job in the USA now and face a boycott or worse! So he gotta go live at home with parents like all broke young people!
@sfrsox Ingalls is the former lover of a UAE pederast emir. Jane Doe is a Mossad agent. She was sent to create circumstances that would restore the emir's lost love to him. This sort of cooperation is expected under the Abraham Accords.
@sfrsox Omar "Matt" Ingalls was expelled. 1) She knew him as Matt, not Omar. 2) He was expelled, he did not flee from an Ivy League school. Seriously, read and learn about this incident before commenting. Let me give you the same advice that some dead old fucks never learned: "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."
@vajmon Can we also assume that the Second Lady is the cleaning lady that JD Vance banged?
I'm not reading all of the comments, but don't call it a gangbang. This was serious and traumatizing for the girl who was drugged and raped. It was a GANG RAPE. Make sure you are calling it what it actually was.
@BubbleYum sorry, but your statements are factually wrong. Shame and regret of her poor decisions from the previous night's intoxication may be shameful, but they are not traumatizing. If they are, then she did it to herself. I don't know what you would call volunteering for two threesomes in a row with 7 guys, but I think most people would call it a gangbang for ease of reference. It was NOT "gang rape" because it was NOT by force and without consent. It sounds me to like it was a scorned woman who regretted agreeing ( and by all accounts enjoying) being a frat's fuckdoll for an evening.
@TheOne&Only ewww. Just admit you support drugging and raping women and move along. There's absolutely no excuse for what they did to her. And it was a gang rape, not a gang bang. I'm sure if you had daughters of your own or any ounce of respect for women in general, you would feel strongly about the situation. But you just see drugged pussy that you can take advantage of.
@BubbleYum You disappoint me; you just ran to the extreme end of ad hominem attacks and hyperbole. I respect women as much as men, and allow women as much freedom as men to make bad decisions and regret them afterwards. I do not allow anyone, man or woman (it's binary, after all), to make bad decisions and then blame others and make false statements. The girl overimbibed, then men overimbibed. The woman took ketamine, the men took ketamine. The men suggested a threesome, them woman agreed to a threesome. At no point was she forced, coerced, held against her will, or violated without consent. When man asked to make it a four-way, she said no and he accepted her refusal without argument. When the man she was giving oral sex to began to go flaccid and pass out, she continued to try and keep him hard in her mouth. When the men in the first threesome became in capable to continue, she willing engaged in a new threesome with different guys. At nearly 6AM, when she said she was tired and would like to leave, they allowed her to stop and leave without hesitation and without harm. In later texts, she stated that she was happy with her decision. enjoyed the threesomes, and looked forward to seeing the frat guy(s) again. She planned to willingly return to the frat for a party later. It was only after the frat rejected her that she filed charges. This is clearly a case of a woman scorned weaponizing consensual sex after the fact.
I have never engaged in a MMF threesome, but I love FFM threesomses. I have had more consensual drunken sex and drug-fueled romps than I can remember. There is no means of counting all of the mistakes and embarrassing things I have done while drunk or high - but I never blamed anyone but myself. Likewise, you are wrong to attack me just because we disagree and you choose to follow a false narrative that is clearly disproven by the simple facts of the case.
lol “Southern Belle”. You must live in a cartoon. You ever been to Cornell’s campus? Beautiful place. Academic pressure plus gorges with high cliffs results in above average number of suicides. Very diverse student body. A lot of Asian, Indian, Mideast students. I’d venture to say there’s not a single woman there who would consider herself a “Southern Belle” and consider someone from the UAE “untouchable”.
@Studme53 Most Ivy League campuses are all foreigners these days. I was recently walking around Dartmouth’s campus and a sizable chunk of the student body is Asians, Indians, and people from the Middle East. The Americans of European lineage were massively outnumbered.
Is a woman giving a rimjob to a passed out guy rape?
@Studme53 Yes. Under NY law at least
@skibum609 You’re a few years ahead of me. I was in college in the 80’s (my parents basically sent me out of Miami for most of the decade for my own safety). I was in a fraternity and we definitely had good times, but it wasn’t an all out orgy as some people seem to think. There were hot girls all around, and we all had our fair share of hookups, but most of the time it was a bunch of dudes hanging out together, trying to figure out how to get laid - most of the time unsuccessfully.
@Iknowbetter That is a good summary of college life. Me and my roommates threw house parties and a decent amount of chicks would show up. We also attended a lot of Keggers and house parties.
Anytime any of us would try to hook up with a girl we would fail miserably.
At the same time if a girl somehow got it in her head that she was attracted to myself or one of my friends, said girl would pursue one of us with relentless fervor. I did hook up with a few baddies in college but only because that girl liked me for some reason and she went out of her way to hook up. I literally didn’t do anything other simply exist. I was just the right guy at the right place at the right time. And somehow that girl got it in her head that was what she wanted right than and there. There was no making anything happen, the ball was always in the girls court.
Making any effort on the males part when meeting a girl was deemed “creepy” or reeked of “desperation”.
I had a friend who was a 6’3” blonde haired blue eyed, chiseled, Aryan Chad and girls would turn into Harvey Weinstein level predators to get in this guy’s pants.
The lesson I learned was the only thing a guy could do was to be the best version of himself and be at the right place where the girls were because it was them who would do the pursuing, not us.
@Iknowbetter I was in college pre herpes, pre aids, 18 year old drinking age so my experience was really different than that of others. We spent all of our waking hours chasing women. Even paid one of the brothers to get them down to the house for parties, weekends etc.. Strangely enough we ate great, because we had a great cook. I ate better in college than at any other time in my life other than the last 25 years of my marriage, when she stopped cooking Irish.
@skibum609 Sounds fun. When I entered college was around 2008. Relations between the sexes were getting progressively worse and with the advent of social media everything was getting shittier by the day.
But male / female dynamics hadn’t been completely nuked like they have now in this country.
We had to attend lectures at the university telling us not to go to parties, get drunk and have sex.
Of course young people will always rebel so they did it anyways.
Where I was in school was rural A&M. So it was mostly dudes and very few attractive women. Fortunately through my social circles I got to meet some of the better looking gals on campus.
As time has gone on I have watched the Women in this country get fatter, more entitled, and bitchier with each passing year.
Truly a shame.
@Someguyontheinternet We dealt with different women. If my friend Karen couldn't find a guy she wanted to bang on weekend night, she'd just show up at later night bar to hook up if I was free. Heck I saw Debbie Does Dallas, Deep Throat and Behind the Green Door in the campus center auditorium for $1.00 per movie lol. By the way oral sex was functionally non-existent in this country prior to Deep Throat. Sex was so easy and available that we had this joke in the frat, which people tell me has not aged well: What do you call a brother who has sex with 6-7 different women every semester? Answer: A homo.
@Someguyontheinternet I had a fav who said her best friend from high school was like that. After one big crush, that didn't work out, her interest in guys did not exceed the fuckbuddy level. But she wanted to be the one who made the first move. A guy rolling up on her was a big turn off.
I couldn’t do an orgy or even a threesome with another dude participating. I can’t even piss standing next to another dude at one of those trough urinals like they have at real old stadiums.
She wasn’t “drugged”. She admits drinking and taking Ketamine by her own choice. Why lie? Unless you’re some pandering, craven politician.
@Studme53 That’s too funny! I think you have to be a certain age to remember pissing in a trough at the stadium. But I agree with you about the MFM threesome - I only ever want to be the only hard dick in the room. Also based on my very limited experience with FMF, for me threesomes are much better fantasies than reality.
@Iknowbetter I saw in one news report that Jane Doe assumed the two guys who wanted to do the threesome must be gay for each other.
@Iknowbetter Fenway park; Schaefer Stadium and the Boston Garden all had troughs. You could tell the real sports fans who went a lot because we knew you pissed at the ends because if you were in the center the drain was there with the piss of 40 guys.
I have done one MFM in my entire life; solely to get to fuck the single hottest woman I have ever seen anywhere in my entire life. Wasn't worth it and not once in the past 51 years have my college roommate and I ever mentioned it.
I will admit that my favorite experience was in my pool about 10 years ago; FFFM, none of them my wife. 3 bisexual girlfriends and a bisexual wife means I have done enough FFM to not want or need to do another one ever again.
Jane Doe's attorney indicates the local DA was setting the case up for a no bill from a grand jury. Likely why the NY state governor gave the case to the AG.
Benson is on it. Even the president of Cornell is going to flee to Dubai now.
I think the last trough I pissed in was Baltimore’s old Memorial Stadium and if I recall correctly they were more like circular fountains where you were standing around in a circle, looking at guys across from you and you could get hit with overspray.
@Iknowbetter Strokers near Atlanta has one.
Once there were two knights and maidens They'd walk together Out in the gardens In all kinds of weather The knights always pestered the maidens To love them together Out in the gardens And they could watch each other The maidens had other plans for the two knights They'd give them potions And make them see dreams and lights The knights took the potions gladly They laughed at their visions But outside the garden Tigers smelled them together. The knights only laughed at the tigers They thought they were visions Out in the garden The maidens watched them together Ah, but for the two knights Ah, but for maidens Who gave to them dreams and lights
I know: In all of the Boston stadiums you'd have the back wall and one side wall with long troughs, like in western, just longer and tilted so the urine could flow to the middle. The only weirder bathrooms were Harvard Stadium and Sullivan Stadium with too few urinals, so we'd just go under the stands and whip it out. The epitome of classy Boston. To make up for it nowadays, every street has a liquor store and a Dunkins.
At the Palestra in Philly at College Big 5 bball games you’d be in contact with the dudes on both sides of you all taking a piss at the same time at halftime. Embarrassing if you got shy bladder
I feel fortunate that those were being phased out as I was coming of age. Still, I am old enough to remember them from my first trip to Comiskey Park and wondering WTH.
New leaked text messages show the Jane Doe originally acknowledged she enjoyed the threesome with at least two of the accused:
@vajmon and? That was reported a while ago.
A woman scorned with a rich daddy who donates the University...dangerous combination. If the guys truly did have non-consensual contact with woman/women, they should be strictly punished accordingly. I imagine there are far worse and more factual incidents that go unpunished, yet this is yet another case of the rich and powerful getting special treatment.
Online rumors say someone named Lucy Craig from Alabama is the Cornell 7 accuser. Can't say if it's true. There are thousands of bitches online claiming to be "Jane Doe". However an investigative journalist named Richard Luthmann did a story about the accuser apparently obtaining her name from court records and has posted pictures from her social media.
Those show a scrawny white chick with freckles and long wavy ginger hair. She looks a lot like Laura Prepon from That '70s Show. I'd rate the alleged accuser a 6 on a civilian scale. But probably an 8 on my stripper scale, especially considering the current lack of talent in the clubs I frequent. In my college days I probably would've passed on her, especially since she's like the village bicycle.
@vajmon
@vajmon that's probably not her. Her name is widely known in media, but none wants to be first to name her, yet. What I've heard from them is that she is fucking fat, wings, shoulder rolls, cankles- the whole bit.
Amazing that society goes after fraternities on crap like this and ignores the untold deaths that occur when students fall from off campus housing.
Yes -drunk college kids sitting on open window sills and railings of balconies and fire escapes and falling back is something that killed a couple kids I knew.
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