Agreed

I second that!!

Basically a flat tax on all lower end consumer goods. The rich can still vacation, dine out for $800 dinners and go to expensive shows and sit in the orchestra section, where the Target/ Walmart crowd pays the bills. All clothing and goods the lower class needs will go up in price. Also protects farmers and oil. This is what they wanted all along. Does anyone think the billionaires boys club cares when nikes go up in price 46%.

We can thank the incredibly stupid people who voted for Trump for a crashing stock market, skyrocketing prices and a negative gdp. Don't forget high unemployment, and increased prescription drug prices and bank fees. We will also feel many ripple affects like all of the tourists from other countries who are cancelling plans to visit and spend money here and they're boycotting American products in droves.

LOL. Watching grown men act so panicky is a sight to behold. 😄

This is the beginning of the process, not the end. We have no idea how this will play out over any period of time. Some countries will no doubt make dramatic concessions to get tariffs lifted or reduced. Others won't and our supply chains will eventually reconfigure to factor that in. And the world goes on.

We won't know for a few years whether the ultimate result of this is positive or negative. But I have to say that he made a surprisingly compelling case in his news conference.

And yes, in the short-term, the market will go down. But it will inevitably come back, as it always does.

But if your already low testosterone levels completely give out and you must panic, then please please please sell any Walmart shares you might own. After all, you do know that WMT sources 70% of its goods from China, right? For the love of God get out while you still can! All of you! No matter how much the price goes down!

Basically a flat tax on all lower end consumer goods.

It's that, and also Dow Futures down over 1,000 right now. That's a

-2.5%

... to everyone's portfolio. With just one simple stupid executive order. Thanks orange moran and the cult followers who voted for him.

By all accounts Trump doesn't even read. He doesn't understand tariffs. There is no grand strategy. He's a moron who doesn't have a clue what he's doing.

^^ -2.5%, to anyone who has followed the market longer than fifteen seconds, is jack squat. Shit, it was people like you who were saying the stock market is a poor barometer of the American economy, now you're touting it like the metric to end all metrics.

I would have thought the left would cheer the opportunity to pay American workers more, after all you said what good was it if American workers don't have enough to buy our stuff, and in-source critical manufacturing from hostile nations.

Like @rickdugan said, this is a long-term move. We're already seeing investments in manufacturing here. Hopefully a reduction in "deaths of despair" from everyone whose job has been shipped abroad in the name of "just in time" supply chains or "deindustrialization."

dustyj, I'll file that prediction next to your Trump UNDER 200 EVs.

Must be embarrassing to be a Republican and watch failure after failure after failure that you voted for.

Bringing back American manufacturing jobs is about 40-50 years too late….

www.tiktok.com

===> "It's that, and also Dow Futures down over 1,000 right now. That's a -2.5%... to everyone's portfolio."

Say it ain't so! The sky is falling! The earth's a shattering! The overnight futures are a crumblin!

Will you dudes man the fuck up already, lol. It's a medium term play. Find some measure of manly stoicism and dispassionate thinking. Let's give it time to roll out before we declare it a win or a bust.

But if you must panic like teenage school girls, then at least remember this... please sell any Walmart shares you might own. After all, you do know that WMT sources 70% of its goods from China, right? For the love of God get out while you still can! All of you! No matter how much the price goes down!

Guess you're too dumb to realize you elected a loser Rick. Trump isn't smart enough to turn things around.

@dusty: He did it in his first term dusty, at least before the pandemic hit. He's earned a second bite at the apple.

^ rickdugan's attempts to portray himself as manly, and those who disagree with him as girly, are sad but increasingly predictable for him.

^ As are the shrill girly squeals from anyone who cannot handle an approach to economics and foreign relations that are so direct as to offend their over-delicate sensitivities. 😉

rick wrote: "He did it in his first term dusty"

More delusions. Trump 45 simply road Obama's economic coattails, in the process giving a huge tax cut to the rich at the expense of running up the deficit. Look at the charts.

Trump took over a booming economy from Obama and when he left it was a complete mess. This time he's greatly increasing the speed that he is fucking up everything. He has already wasted like 50 million dollars playing golf and going to the super bowl though so that's a plus.

Obama left us with an economy on 0% interest rate life support with a declining labor force participation rate. The economy under Trump, due to a combination of deregulation and tax reforms, finally became strong enough that the LFPR increased for the first time in over 8 years and the Fed was able to raise interest rates off of the floor.

If you are going to speak about economic issues, don't be fucking stupid. During the Obama years we were looking much like the stagnant European economies rather than the growth engine that America can be.

If you want a proper look at the Trump economy, look at 2017-2019. The pandemic was what it was and the economy was already recovering from that when Biden took office and started pushing massive inflationary spending.

So, like I said, he's earned another bite at the apple. Let's see how this plays out before we pass judgment.

en.m.wikipedia.org

There you go. Trump's first term was a failure. The second will be a complete disaster.

Obama left us with an economy on 0% interest rate life support with a declining labor force participation rate. The economy under Trump, due to a combination of deregulation and tax reforms, finally became strong enough that the LFPR increased for the first time in over 8 years and the Fed was able to raise interest rates off of the floor.

Oh, and I should also mention that wages were outpacing inflation by a fair degree.

Compare 2017-2019 to 2013-2016 on most charts and you'll see Trump didn't do much to move the dial beyond what Obama had already set in motion.

Which btw is why Trump got elected again. People first and foremost vote with their wallets and they remember the trump years much more fondly than the Biden years, for good reason.

wld, Obama squelched economic growth. I don't need manufactured charts with cherry-picked data to knw that. I lived it as a small business owner.

So like I said, Trump earned another bite at the apple.

Voting with their wallets is going to leave people with empty wallets this time around. It's amazing that people thought that Trump's plan was better for the economy when economists all agreed it was a terrible plan. Many voters are just wildly uninformed.

Wow, the Lib Cope Squad is BIG MAD!

For 3 years, Trump gave us growth despite not having Obama's ZIRP. Yeah, I wasn't on board with the tax cuts because we're an inch away from getting fucked by debt service, but that's been bipartisan. I know the cope squad doesn't get this, but there's a big difference between spending during a deflationary shock, and using stimulus as an excuse for more green bullshit. Never let a crisis go to waste. Lulz. Not to mention the 10th year of a recovery, even a protracted one, is different from the first.

Dems don't get that when government doesn't work, they lose. Even when they try to spend on things that would make a difference, they're obsessed with pleasing every crackpot element of their coalition; the regulators require a billion forms; the identity mongers insist on quotas for female, minority, and LGBTQ contractors; the unions insist on union labor; and all their spending leads to jack shit.

Now, Trump is bringing the jobs back to America that Obama insisted were gone forever. He's already closed the border that Biden insisted was as closed as it could be. I've noticed that, when Dems don't want to do something, they insist it's "impossible."

@wld4tatas and @dustyj are too busy venting their spleens to deal in facts. The former is going to make sarcastic comments due to his mongoloid EQ. The latter is going to insist again that he could kick my ass because pickup basketball or something.
Both are going to spike their blood pressure for the next 3 years and almost 9 months.
I don't wish harm on either of you. Hopefully you can make peace with the reality of the American voter.

This is why the Democratic party's approval rating is in the shitter, because they're pure feelings, pure id. The party of bitchy women, even those who happen to have Y chromosomes.

Obama left us with an economy on 0% interest rate life support with a declining labor force participation rate. The economy under Trump, due to a combination of deregulation and tax reforms, finally became strong enough that the LFPR increased for the first time in over 8 years and the Fed was able to raise interest rates off of the floor.

I keep repeating this because it is incredibly important. An economy on 0% interest rate life support is not healthy, no matter how you spin it. A country with a plummeting LFPR is also not healthy as it means fewer productive citizens and, hence, a less productive economy.

No other stats matter remotely as much as these do. The economy was growing at an anemic rate during those years and required essentially free money to do so.

I agree we don't know how the trade wars are going to play out. It's a giant experiment, for which we are told to be patient and tolerate some pain. There is no guarantee we'll be better off.

I'm probably closer to neutral than optimistic or pessimistic on the tariffs.

But overall I'm a net strong negative on Trump for many, many reasons.

Oh, and just the beginning for people who love strip joints.

He's going to ruin the economy, and make it so much harder to go to other countries, since they all hate us now.

And a BUNCH of hot strippers will get deported, especially Cubans.

Others from South American countries just won't want to come here.

Then he will implement the religious "Project 2025", and strip joints are on their target list. Then you have to decide how much you want to stand up and scream publicly to keep strip joints open.

^ Deport every last Cuban stripper if it means one American gets a better paying job and is saved from a death of despair.

You know, I offered @dustyj a $10,000 bet that strip clubs will not be made illegal in this term. @nelly76 , do you stand on business with that prediction?

===> 'He's going to ruin the economy, and make it so much harder to go to other countries, since they all hate us now."

Say it ain't so! The sky is falling! The earth's a shattering! The overnight futures are a crumblin!

Will you dudes man the fuck up already, lol. It's a medium term play. Find some measure of manly stoicism and dispassionate thinking. Let's give it time to roll out before we declare it a win or a bust.

But if you must panic like teenage school girls, then at least remember this... please sell any Walmart shares you might own. After all, you do know that WMT sources 70% of its goods from China, right? For the love of God get out while you still can! All of you! No matter how much the price goes down!

@Puddy making goods in America is good if it occurs naturally, but its a net loss to society if its forced via tariffs. For instance if american cars are cheaper than foreign ones, but the reason is because of high tariffs on foreign cars, then that’s beneficial for the American car company but at the expense of society as a whole. Its economics 101.

Additionally you have factors like the fact there is a minimum wage law in the US, but no minimum wage law in other countries. That encourages companies to use foreign, cheaper labor, instead of American labor. Since their costs are lower, they can sell the product cheaper. Net net society benefits.

Another related factor is slave labor. Some countries allow it, and American companies are allowed to use it as long as its done in those countries.

Instead of tariffs, what really needs to be done is removing incentives for companies to seek out cheaper foreign labor and costs. That is done via making slavery legal and abolishing the minimum wage. If nike is already using slaves in China, theres nothing wrong with allowing them to purchase the slave, bring it to the US and using him/her to work in a domestic nike factory. Tariffs are an infringement on a free market system

Puddy just keeps rehashing the same old shit. Probably a better way to explain what I think about all of the tough talk I get from some of you is I feel like if I saw you in person I'd start laughing. This vagina looking guy is the one with all of the insults and tough talk. Seriously?

“Deport every last Cuban stripper if it means one American gets a better paying job and is saved from a death of despair.”

This is not how a proper economy works. Let me give you another example. Lets say American IT workers want to make $50 an hour, but theres indian and other immigrant IT guys willing to work for $15 an hour. You are basically saying the government should bar companies from accessing the cheap indian labor so that Americans can make more money. That is destructive to the economy, youre helping American it workers but hurting everyone else. Thats called a protectionist policy

"I get from some of you is I feel like if I saw you in person I'd start laughing"

Probably the better way to think about the tough talk is to just keep emotional self-control and not do it.

"This is not how a proper economy works."

I don't think you get that maximizing the number of dollars in society isn't the only concern. Learn how to think in other dimensions.

The Trump vote is diverse. It can roughly be split into these categories:

1. People who think reality TV is actual reality.
2. Anti-DEI people who reject DEI measures that are pro-meritocracy by conflating them with DEI measures that are anti-meritocracy. Weirdly, this now includes many Black dudes who think there aren't enough pickme Black women. This group has a big tendency to be just plain hateful and anti-social.
3. People who vote against the current administration if they are doing worse due to a lower income or higher prices. While I think this overly simplistic, I consider these people smarter than those who advocate for drastic economic changes, and are oblivious to the risks.
4. People who think Trump is sketchy, but not as sketchy as many beliefs commonly held by the Democrat base (that the Democrat Party panders to). While I can't agree with them, especially after Jan 6 and the subsequent pardons, I have some sympathy with this group.
5. Americans who were fucked over by the US dropping its pants for oppressive foreign governments in low wage countries.

Only first two of these groups are idiots. But I doubt they are the majority of the Trump vote.

The majority of supporters of the Democrat party are among the fuckers who benefited from the fuck over of the fifth group. Yes, corporate fat cats got the biggest benefit from the fuck over. But pretty much all college graduates came out ahead due to the fuck over, because of the lower priced imports. If their 401Ks are going to shit, karma's a bitch. What's sucks is that tariffs, intelligently used, are an indispensable tool (along with other trade barriers) in reversing the fuck over. So Trump is just going to end up reinforcing the scare tactic of the architects of the fuck over, that any and all trade barriers are the end of the world.

Geeze, now founder won't let us do numbered lists. I wonder what programming language he found that's even more evil than PHP.

Puddy learn how to judge a man's character. Trump has zero moral compass. Literally zero. You can't try to impress me with your intelligence when you support a man that represents absolutely no qualities that you would ever teach any child to be ever. If a man's word and character are used to measure a man Trump couldn't possibly be more of a failure. And you insult me all the time, I could fucking care less if you like me.

FTR, @ilbbaicnl your numbered lists are still preserved in the HTML that gets rendered, founder just needs to apply some styles to the CSS and suddenly they will appear visible.

Was this the MAGA voters idea of "great again?"
Prices up

Stocks down

Allies insulted and alienated

Putin embraced

Convicted criminals pardoned

Judges threatened

Musk running amok

Measles reemerging

A police state rears its ugly head for anyone who disagrees with Trump

Scientific research abandoned----- OK MAGA voters own the consequences of your vote and give up all of the benefits of science---- no more medications, computers, smart phones and any other products of science

Tell me when America is "great again."

MAGA voters were sucker punched by the Great Betrayer.

How did America end up with such weak options for POTUS?

Yeah, get a beer, this is long.

To all Dem Karens predicting "The sky is falling, the sky is falling." The Dems and RINOs have destroyed the middle class over the last 45 years. In the 1960s/1970s middle class could buy a nice house, mom didn't work & could raise the kids and college was affordable.

Public ed has dropped from #1 in the 1970s, to #39. Manufacturing has been sold off to the Globalists to line their pockets, and they are the ones pissing in their pants as their joy ride is coming to an end. China went on ramming speed once brought into the WTC using forced slave labor; Foxconn (makes Apple products) put up suicide nets to catch jumpers.

Post-WWII, Europe, South Korea and Japan went to a Social Welfare/cradle-to-grave economy, and I get they had to as they were in rubble. American manufacturing and military quickly took on 2 major fronts in WWII and won both wars.

The problem is, you need money and lots of it to sustain Socialism. America stepped up to help rebuild them, provided shipping protection with our Navy and allowed tariffs to be placed on our exports. 80 years is long enough, time to kick them out of the nest & into reality and compete with fair trade. America has bent over backwards, and now we have $37T in debt and a $2T budge deficit.

Yeah, we are going through detox, and it will be painful for "28 days". It'll take a few years to see the full benefit. Actions taken by congress and POTUS take about 18 months to fully kick in. You don't turn the #1 global economy around with "hope and change."

All you pansy asses do is bitch and moan with no stats to backup what you say will happen. The Market has gone up and down - it's what it does. I want to see your reactions in 2-4 years. If this goes bad, then you'll get your Democrat-Socialists back in Congress and POTUS, and they tuck you in at night as they tax the crap out of all - BOHICA. And in a few more years, our debit bomb will hit $50T, and then you'll see higher taxes and less for Medicare and SS; I'd bet Medicare will vanish, and we'll all be forced into regulated and rationed Medicaid controlled by glacial bureaucracy. Now won't that be fun. That was the rail car we were in with 8 years of Obama (slowest economic recovery in recent history) and then 4 years of Obama v2.

Get a clue why the Dems cratered like a toilet falling out of the ISS to earth and Trump won given all the shit that was thrown his way including bullets. We are now just hearing what a dementia-laden mess Biden was and we won't know who ran the WH for years to come.

I find it hilarious that all the Progressives here and other places just parrot back the excrement sandwich the MSM feeds you, and you gladly accept it.

^ The consequences of this will cost Americans for years, this isn't just a blip, overnight equities have fallen 4% , and our prestige has been destroyed in markets around the world. What I would worry most about is who owns our T-Bills, right now Japan is the largest holder of U.S. debt, holding more than 1.1 Trillion in Treasury securities, followed by China, which holds 759 Billion, retaliation won't be a fun ride, and if the dollar softens too much, we will no longer be the worlds reserve currency, I know you MAGA idiots think that you know everything, but you can't reverse gravity and the world economy operates on the fundamentals, which will not reverse course regardless of what Trump and his hand picked group of anarchists think.

The ridiculous panic and comments from the left prove that while you may be men, nary a one of you was assigned male at birth. Ruin the economy forever? Fucking pussy loser comment. Except the people on the progressive side here are fucking dumber than those at the Daily Beast, you sound the same.

A reset might be good for my kids and grandkids, but will cause short term rough economy.

Wait till stock market bottoms out in a few weeks then buy !

How many people do you know who work in manufacturing or making a product that will sell outside the U.S.?

This country is turning into a nursing home with a giant army.

^ I sincerely hope it will be good for our grandkids, but I don't see it, no panic here, just cold hard realistic practices. MAGA has destroyed the Republican Party, this party is no longer recognizable, free trade was a bedrock principle, along with a belief in science, this new group is just stupid, protectionists, anti vaxxers, climate deniers, conspiracy theorists, what a bunch of weirdos, the Republican Party is nothing but a hotbed of chaos, not saying the Democrats are much better, the shitty candidates they run, and the hills they chose to make their stand on allow losers and idiots like Trump to win elections. while picking debunked theorists as their advisors, a known drunk as secretary of defense holy shit, and the Democrats wow just wow, Al Sharpton, and Bernie Sanders,promote stupidity, along with gullible populists like AOC, blocking projects that would raise living standards, based on some stupid idea of what people are entitled to, as far as I'm concerned they are entitled to what they can earn not what I have earned. Twenty years ago Donald Trump was the laughing stock of NYC, somehow you idiots have made him president of these United States, and elevated his stature to laughing stock of the world.
We definitely need a reset but Trump is not a reset it's just the same old grift and self dealing, repackaged in different colored paper.

DEI was flawed in its inception. It hurt asian students.
The nba is like 80% black, even nfl was 70% black. Porn companies and possibly media companies are overwhelmingly Jewish. Federal reserve chairman overwhelmingly jewish. Yet no calls for DEI in those industries?
DEI was something that was considered post slavery, in an attempt to right some of the wrongs of slavery. It was always meant to be temporary. If youre putting racial quotas in the system, that is racist, as well as if you have different requirements and performance standards for different races. It isnt possible to have pro meritocratic DEI policy.

Markets go down but invariably rise again eventually. If you were keeping money that you needed in the next six months in equities, then you were doing it wrong to begin with.

But I repeat once again, if you must panic like teenage school girls, then at least remember this... please sell any Walmart shares you might own. After all, you do know that WMT sources 70% of its goods from China, right? For the love of God get out while you still can! All of you! No matter how much the price goes down!

Let me see if I have this straight.
Democrats are in favor of:
Burning the electric cars they told us we MUST buy to save the planet.
Everlasting foreign wars to feed the military industrial complex and enrich themselves.
Allowing foreign countries to charge us more than double the taxes and tariffs that we charge them in order to keep our goods out.
Defending Anti-semitic rabble rousers who violate the terms of their visa.
Providing sanctuary for drug traffickers, human traffickers, robbers, rapists and murderers.
Allowing our government to waste money, launder money, fund anti-American NGOs and enrich themselves and their family.
Allowing non-citizens the right to vote.

I know I forgot something because Democrats are a party devoid of any logical solutions.
They're only involved in performative art, virtue signaling and hating Trump.

does anyone really want to work on an assembly line making hubcaps for minimum wage. They talk about good paying jobs, that was in the 60s when we had unions, unions are dead now. Look at the best companies in America, Apple, Google, Meta, Amazon, they employee millions and have made billions for Americans, they manufacture nothing in the USA

^^ Very well said Sir. Kudos.

Fucking unbelievable:

#DJIA -3.5%

This was completely unnecessary, completely predictable, and if you voted for Trump like a fucking cult member, it's COMPLETELY YOUR FUCKING FAULT.

FUCK ALL OF YOU ORANGE DICK SWALLOWING ASSHOLES.

And don't feed me your completely deranged cult lies about re-making the the economy. This is about crippling our economy and isolating our country so he can take us to war like the little fascist ass-hat he is.

^ Wow, you were one cuss word away from making a point!
You make it sound like 3.5% is the end of the world.
War? He's the one that wants to keep us out of wars.

Stay mad.

^^ You are so fucking stupid a new word would have to be created just to explain. I know progressives hate the truth and facts, but in 10/1987 the market lost half of its value in one fucking day, stupid. People like you sold, lost out and are failures to this day. I stayed put, bought some more and 6 months later it was above 10/1987. Stop proving you are a dumb fuck loser Ronnie girl.

^ big fucking difference in what happened on 10/17/ 1987, and now
Ronald Reagan was president and not actively working to tank the market, and he had a bunch of intelligent folks surrounding him who had real knowledge and talent, unlike this deranged narcissist who knows everything about anything and surrounds himself with a bunch of yes men and idiots, who dont know the difference between a tree stump and a hole in the ground.

Prices up
true; but that started with Biden

Stocks down
foreseeable and well-telegraphed. Did you fail to prepare?

Allies insulted and alienated
Allies who have been screwing us and failing to meet their treaty obligations. Were they ever really allies?

Putin embraced
Lie.

Convicted criminals pardoned
Wrongfully convicted.

Judges threatened
You mean when Schumer threatened Gorsuch and Kavanaugh? you mean like lone wolf the woke mob incited to try and kidnap/kill the Kavanaugh family?

Musk running amok
Lie.

Measles reemerging
Yes, from the illegal aliens the democrat party invited to invade our country

A police state rears its ugly head for anyone who disagrees with Trump
Lie.

Scientific research abandoned----- OK MAGA voters own the consequences of your vote and give up all of the benefits of science---- no more medications, computers, smart phones and any other products of science
Lie

Tell me when America is "great again."
Are you serious? It's going to take longer than 70 days.

MAGA voters were sucker punched by the Great Betrayer.
Not at all, Trump is doing exactly what voters chose him to do.

How did America end up with such weak options for POTUS?
I blame career politicians and a lack of term limits.

Has 25 ever thought about making a rational argument? All he does spit and foam at the mouth, ranting, raving, and calling people names. It's schoolyard idiocy.

Its a tax on the consumer. We are a consumer economy. It will slow growth. Not that complicated

Gammanut how’s this for name calling, you are stupider than a dead tree stump, your post is idiotic, your mother should have been sterilized before you were born not after.

You prove my point perfectly. You are a demented, bitter, frightened old man with a chip on his shoulder. You blame the world for all of your misery and failures, and are unable to accept responsibility for any of the misery and poverty you are mired in. You have run off any friends or family you had. You have admitted to people closest to you taking the most extreme acts to get away from you. That is who you are.

OMG Imaging NOT having Gammacult blocked, holy shit, what are you thinking @twentyfive

^ He’s an idiot who cares what he posted he amuses me because he’s so stupid and completely unaware how stupid he really sounds

This is only different than 1987 because the fact it's no different makes your argument ridiculous. The idea a day, a week, a month or a year makes a forever difference in the market is just left wing bullshit and proves democrats are nothing but frauds.

^says the idiot who has "permanently" ignored me at least five times. He has no life and just follows me around TUSCL because he enjoys getting beat like a red-headed step child.

Hurl all the impotent, infantile insults you want. I am not your ex. I am not going to kill myself or leave TUSCL to get away from you. You can leave me alone, ignore me (again), or quit TUSCL again. The latter is the option most of us would prefer.

*^^

Leftists have nothing to support their stance, just naming calling, cursing and being Chicken Littles "The sky is falling in the sky is falling in." And they aren't critical of their own.

Go back to the mid-1990s when Clinton (DEM) doubled-down on The Community Reinvestment Act from the Carter era (another time bomb Carter created along with the DOEd) and coerced banks to lend Sub-Prime Mortgages (aka Junk Bonds) and allow banks to hide & sell this Junk within quality loans. The book "The Big Short: Inside the Doomsday Machine" by Michael Lewis, detailed the 2008 financial collapse ignited by the housing bubble from Sub-Prime mortgages. This was also detailed by the NYT which is not exactly the NY Post.

Go back 52 years when Nixon welcomed Mao, after he whacked over an estimated 100M with The Cultural Revolution and provided slave labor for manufacturing. We were in the middle of a Cold War with the USSR and here Nixon and Kissinger are rolling out the red carpet for Mao? And in the 1990s letting the CCP into the WTC?

This is gov't unchecked and what it brings to the table. Now Trump is trying to undo the past 80 years of countries, our so called "friends & allies", taking advantage of America's industrial wealth and capitalism rather than working with us with fair trade to help slow/stop the CCP from their 100 Year Belt and Road Initiative started in 2013 under let's see, oh yeah, Obama the Great Marxist-Socialist who hates that the US Constitution is a negative document (for all you Lefties, that means it LIMITS gov't) and he wants a new Constitution that spells out what gov't WILL DO - call it Social Welfare like the mighty Europeans have with country gov'ts then the EU layered on top with lots of VATs, tariffs, taxes and heavy regulation.

The Right isn't always right for sure. The Dems are drunk on Progressive DEI/Woke Kool-Aid and find themselves in a very deep hole. 60 years ago this could be hidden, today with the Internet and digital media, it is nicely publicly documented.

^ yada yada yada left wing yada yada democrat yada yada, you’re consistent I’ll give you that, but still Yada Yada Yada
LOL

Oh, I forgot to mention CARTER gave away the Panama Canal for free, and other POTUSs allowed the CCP/BRI to encroached over a national strategic canal America uses more than any country. Fortunately, Trump is dealing with that now.

Then we have Greenland. We'll see if Trump can make a deal.

Bottomline: Trump is a real estate guy. He doesn't give up real estate. Why? No more is being made, and the Canal and Greenland vital to North American security. You think Denmark will protect Greenland when the CCP or Russia at some point look to invade like the CCP is eyeing Taiwan?

Mogul, Trump just fucking crashed the stock market, wiping out billions in value, nobody has time to watch you jack-off with a bunch of WhatAboutery. Nothing you said absolves Trump of his terrifying mismanagement of our economy.

What Trump did this week is making everyone poorer, a lot poorer. He's a terrible president and you orange dick suckers need to stop drinking from the fountain of Fox because that shit is poisonous.

I don’t see how a closed circuit economy can thrive. Serving food and giving medical treatment to each other is not the basis of a strong economy.
We have to be able to manufacture and sell our products overseas. If reciprocal tariffs get other countries to open up their markets to American made, that would be a game changer.

Ton Jax is such a fag he makes wild4cock seem macho. Market crash lol. Fucking stupid thing to post. Corrections happen all the time. Trump is right now, for once. I notice that traitors called democrats don't carr if our allies kill us with tariffs, but go limp when we do the exact same thing. Hiw

Will some of you dudes stop fucking whining already? Seriously now, it's painful to watch from grown ass men. Markets that go down eventually go back up.

Yes there will be consequences. What and for how long remains to be seen. Over the coming weeks and months I think we will see him reduce tariffs as more countries acquiesce to U.S. demands for greater fairness.

If I had to guess, I suspect that countries like Thailand and Vietnam, who are being hit hard, will be quick to come to some accommodation. Their economies will be hurt badly if manufacturers who sell into the U.S. leave these places. Others may need to suffer longer before they finally capitulate and cut the shit that they've been pulling for decades.

I'm guessing that more factories will come back online in the U.S. How many? Too soon to tell.

So man the fuck up already. The die is cast. In for a penny, in for a pound.

Lol Puddy trump wants to keep us out of wars? You fall for marketing gimmicks that easily?

To be clear, who knows what trump personally wants. What any president personally wants is usually irrelevant. Trump is surrounded by people that want to wipe out the middle east or subjugate it for israel. He got hundreds of millions from Miriam Adelson, what do you think that money was for? Trumps only worth a few billion, so relatively speaking hundreds of millions is a huge amount of money for him.
If you understand human nature, you understand that when someone like Miriam Adelson gives trump money, its because she wants something in exchange.

Ill go further, if you understand human nature, then you understand that even tribalism is human nature. As well as being motivated by money, greed, power.

You dont need solid on paper evidence to understand that people are motivated by greed and power.
The thing is not everyone can act on that greed and power.
And the reality is, Trumps backers, many of his associates and many of his voters, either want to completely wipe out the middle east, or extract money from the middle east, or subjugate it for israel. Regardless of what they want to do though, they dont want to just leave it alone, no matter how peaceful a country there may be. Theres big business in places like Dubai, Qatar and Saudi Arabia, theres money to be made. But other places like Syria, palestine, iraq, iran, etc there is no money to be made, those are just pure landmasses there for israels taking. All of that involves war.

Trump ran on an anti war platform but he literally wants war with iran. Iran has security agreements with Russia, possibly China, and supposedly, it has assurances from all the Gulf Arab countries that they wont do anything to Iran if it targets US military bases within their countries.

Trump is literally going to pull us into WW3 due to israel and iran.

You also have a bunch of evangelical Christians, Jews, and even Moslems who literally believe in armaggedon related prophecies. A lot of those people literally want world war 3 and believe it will speed up the coming of Jesus, or the coming of the Jewish Messiah. The religious right (which is a huge portion of the right) has wanted WW3 for decades. Israel has always wanted it because they believe as long as the US backs them, they will win, and gain a huge amount of land in the middle east. As well as establish Biblical Israel which again is something that helps bring the Messiah about

Democrats and Republicans both want war, but for different reasons. For the dems its more about military contracts, for the right, military contracts plus religious reasons.

All it takes for WW3 to start is for Iran and the US to start a war, and once russia and china gets involved you are in WW3. Its absolutely a possibility that trump is intentionally trying to crash the economy and create job loss to fuel enthusiasm for world war 3 which can also be presented as a solution to fix the poor economy

^ More lies. Tard or troll?

@studme53, you're exactly right to say We have to be able to manufacture and sell our products overseas.

The thing is, foreign markets have been relatively open *until Trump started this fucking useless trade war. America exports a lot of important shit! Planes, cars, pharmaceuticals, petroleum products, graphics cards, etc.

Guess what's happening to all these companies today? Actually, don't guess, I'll show you:

📉Boeing -8.77% 1D

📉General Motors -4.00% 1D

📉Pfizer -0.67% 1D

📉NVIDIA -7.31% 1D

These tariffs are fucking devastating for American enterprise and exports.

@rickdugan, how about you stop whining and read the fucking news instead. This isn't some gimmicky quirk that's happening with the market today - it's a full on blood bath and a prelude to a recession or worse.

And I am not "manning up" for your fucking gay-assed experiment with 18th century economic policy. How rather than saying you're "in for a penny, in for a pound" just admitting that you loving getting pounded in the ass by Trump. Google "cognitive dissonance." It's you bro.

^ Angry little child who obviously hasn't followed the stock market for longer than fifteen minutes.

"Probably a better way to explain what I think about all of the tough talk I get from some of you is I feel like if I saw you in person I'd start laughing. This vagina looking guy is the one with all of the insults and tough talk. Seriously?"

LOL, who's talking tough? "I bet I'd kick your ass if I saw you" is middle school playground talk. I'm just reminding you of the nonsense you spew. If I saw you in person, I'd probably buy you a drink and some pussy to get over your anger management problem.

"And you insult me all the time, I could fucking care less if you like me."

Likewise, little buddy. You haven't earned my respect on any level. Certainly not with depth of thought.

@Ronjax2: Do you need to sell a bunch of your holdings today to meet current expenses? Are you trading heavily on margin? If not, then nut up already. It's just paper losses until you need to sell. What goes down usually goes back up.

A temporary 3.5% down market is hardly Armageddon, lol. The tariffs haven't even kicked in yet. We don't know what impacts they will ultimately have or even how long they will be in place.

So take a deep breath. Think. Listen. Watch. Find a bit of manly stoicism and tamp down the shrill girly squeals until you have something tangible to panic over.

The success of a lot of US corporations depends on the anti-working-class trade policies that began under Bill Clinton. There is no way to reverse those policies without the stock market taking a big hit. The problem is that Trump is not focusing on the main problem, imports from low wage countries.

Watched a lot of CNBC, not a single person thinks this a good idea. The only ones that seem to like it are persons connected to the Trump administration. Hey I made money today, Trump scared me off weeks ago. But best of luck to his supporters.

I got out of stocks many weeks ago. Just going to focus on preservation of principle for the foreseeable future.

But when I say don't panic, I mean about anything but Walmart stock. You should definitely sell any Walmart shares you might own. After all, you do know that WMT sources 70% of its goods from China, right? For the love of God get out while you still can! All of you! No matter how much the price goes down!

I just can't justify adding more to my position when the fucking stock is still trading at a 36x P/E multiple. Errr, I mean that I would hate to see any of you guys get hurt fro ma country that buys so much damned stuff from China!

A temporary 3.5% down market is hardly Armageddon, lol.

@rickdugan DJIA In a single day, 3.5%. Since January 21st 2025, we're down:

🔻7.35%

It is an armageddon. And unlike previous armageddons, which were due to factors mostly outside of our control this is an own goal. COVID, the asian financial crisis, the housing crisis meltdown, the dot-com bubble bursting, all the other things that have caused drops in the market this severe were complicated and deep root causes.

The root cause of this vaporization of value is simple: Trump's shitty tarrifs. THAT'S WHAT HAS ME FURIOUS TODAY. All of this was preventable!

And thinking this is going to transform our economy? That's childish. Man up and read The Economist or something. No business is going to start building factories in Ohio because of these tarrifs. What is going to happen is the GOP will be thrown out of office, and a sane and sensible president who believes in economic liberty as all Americans should will take over and repeal them, and things will go back to a new normal.

The gaping hole left between that new normal and where we were is like the time humanity lost in the 14th and 15th centuries due to the dark ages. We'll never get it back.

That should be "from a company" lol.

@ilbbaicnl - I thought about getting out of stocks but timing the market is a sucker's bet. I'd have to pay a lot of capital gains tax.

Stocks are like herds of wild horses. One of them farts too loud, they overreact and stampede in the wrong direction.

Barring a severe financial emergency, I'm standing pat.

Everything trump is doing is a scam to try to makeup for lowering taxes for the ultra rich. And all of it at our expense

"It is an armageddon."
7.35% is Armageddon? Armageddon is the end of the world, dumb shit.
That's not even a correction!

"Trump's shitty tarrifs. THAT'S WHAT HAS ME FURIOUS TODAY."
Go ahead and panic sell, sucker.

"No business is going to start building factories in Ohio because of these tarrifs."
They are already committing to do so.

"What is going to happen is the GOP will be thrown out of office, and a sane and sensible president who believes in economic liberty as all Americans should will take over and repeal them, and things will go back to a new normal."
Your party's approval rating is 27%!
You pissed away (or rather, inflated away) your chance to take the helm.
Reform yourself. Purge the green mandates, drop the gender and race radicalism, and put forth a prosperity agenda. Then, you might earn another chance.

Mogul, are you saying trump has the right to take over greenland because its important for security interests?
And he can take panama canal because we use it a lot? Lol.

You understand these sorts of statements are why people make fun of trump voters so much and think they are deranged.

Your statements in hypocritical because no other country, and no people including you, would be okay with random countries taking over other countries just because they can or because its strategic. Not to mention the extremely broad definition of something like “strategic advantage”. It would be strategic and beneficial for me to steal every house i could within 10 miles of me, yet i dont do it, and even if i wanted to i would struggle to take even one house.

Do you not understand property rights or morals or something? You think trump can just take greenland and the panama canal if he feels like it? Lol. You can add property rights to the list of things you dont agree with in the constitution…

There is something eerily wrong when someone treats a guy like trump as infallible, always morally and factually correct, and always making the right decision in all scenarios.

We know that a huge % of his followers would be perfectly fine with him wiping out half the world. All he would need to do is claim the Arab countries support Hamas, and that China and Russia support Iran and Hamas. That is literally all he would need to say and his mindless followers would literally cheer him on and encourage him to completely destroy the entire middle east, china, russia, etc. billions of people. Its extremely concerning, extremely strange and extremely delusional.

All Trump would need to do is say X country or landmass is “vital for American interests” “vital for security”, and, again, a huge % of his voters would be okay with him just stealing said piece of land or country. We see it already with Greenland. Even if Trump himself intends to actually purchase Greenland, theres no denying a huge % of his voters would be okay with him just stealing it outright, and even executing its inhabitants just for the hell of it. Especially if Trump could present its inhabitants as savages or terrorists

Trumps not even anywhere close to the richest, or smartest guy in the world. Musk is objectively a lot smarter, higher testosterone too. Trump has poor jaw development whereas musk almost has a crimson chin. It would make more logical sense to blindly believe Musk is infallible than Trump.

The Crash of 1987 ( en.wikipedia.org ) turned out to be pretty much a nothing burger for the general economy. It's probably going to take a couple of months to see clear impacts in prices and unemployment.

I just read the most frighteing thing ever: this is the worst market crash in the entire history of the stock market since 2020!!!!!!!M O MY FUCKING GOD!!!!! This hasn't happened for fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiive years. O MY MY MY.

===> "7.35% is Armageddon? Armageddon is the end of the world, dumb shit. That's not even a correction!"

Exactly, lol. This strikes me as someone who lacks historical perspective.

Your gonna need a lot of those doge checks to restart this stagflated economy!

That's not even a correction

What you're missing is it's a 7.35% loss with nothing to correct. This isn't the market responding to some bubble in any sector - it's the market responding to Trump's tariffs. The economy was humming along nicely before Trump got involved.

^Hysterical shrew. The market responded to 9/11 in the same way. So what? In view of the horrible economic news I plan on limiting myself in the next 24 hours to Boardroom Cabaret; 18 Holes of Golf; and dinner out in New Bedford,

^^ Yeah, 20% increase in price levels so whomever controlled the vegetable in chief could flush money down the green toilet. Shell shock at the Shop-Rite checkout line. Humming along indeed.

7.35% is nothing but an attempt to score points. I'm sure if it were up 7.35%, you'd find something else to condemn Trump for.

It was the left, not the right, who kept telling us the stock market is "the rich man's casino" (Michael Moore) and not reflective of the overall health of the nation, as well as that we need wages with which the American people can afford to consume. Now, Trump is securing American manufacturing deals. Isn't that a good thing?

I'm sure when the stock market recovers, you'll find another "Armageddon."

^ sure the market recovers eventually, still this disruption is wasted time and opportunity, with no guarantee that what that financial genius has started will happen the way he planned it, furthermore weakening the financial system, plus we all know that what ever the price increases are, that’s the new price so inflation is surged to whatever level it reaches, guaranteed the price will not go back to the level it started at.
So either way it’s us that gets fucked, the government officials will get their own expenditures covered, and Trup will continue to golf and travel on the inflated taxpayers money.

@twentyfive - Wasted time and opportunity to do what? Trump campaigned on this, and we're seeing commitments to build in America. The left has repeatedly said that we need better paying jobs so that Americans can buy goods, so what's the problem now, that their stock portfolios are suffering? Long term, I'm bullish on America, so I'm not going to panic.

I'll admit I'm not a fan of brinksmanship in general. I don't think it was needed, at least not to this level. But the US market is lucrative enough that we hold the cards. I'm sure world leaders are blowing up Trump's phone right now.

There are a lot of DOGE cuts that I vehemently disagree with, like cuts to NIH, CDC, DHHS. We need America to be the innovation engine of the world, particularly in biomedical science, and these cuts do not feel well thought out. I wonder when DOGE is going to get into the real spending issues. Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and the DoD.

But I see Musk de-centering the federal government in American lives, and with that, I think federal government employees are going to see their expense accounts shrink, and their fat benefits brought in line.

We'll see what happens, but panicky investors are the best friend of the smart and patient investor who happily buys on the downswing.

Forgot I also wanted to address the trade deficit, which is absolutely normal if you were to consider the facts, our country imports Mercedes Benz automobiles while other than countries are buying bicycles, any one who’s not stupid would understand that.

@PT
It will take much longer than the time left in Trumps tenure to onshore most of the manufacturing sector and in the meantime we are alienating our allies, just stupid, and suppose Trumps calculations are wrong, who’s on the hook.

Puddy, you dont like RFK, then?

Whats the issue with cutting funding to the NIH, CDC, and DHHS?
Those agencies, and tbe industries they represent, are inherently corrupt.

If you have for profit medicine, you are incentivizing people to basically spread disease, or even create diseases that dont exist/arent problematic, or create cures that we dont need. That whole industry basically exists to keep people sick and for pharma companies to profit. Its similar to how weapons companies want as much war as possible while remaining personally safe.

You happen to just disagree with the DOGE cuts that specifically relate to the industry you work in. That simply seems like a personal bias/personal problem. You can attempt to rationalize it but your argument is coming from a place of bias because you work in that industry and personally benefit from those agencies being funded. The idea that theres all these different diseases out there, and you need a particular pharmaceutical creation for each particular disease, is completely ludicrous and nonsensical. Those agencies and companies in that industry are basically incentivized to invent as many diseases as they can and fear monger about all of them to then create cures to sell.

^^ Yes, it takes time, probably longer than Trump's tenure, but that's not an argument against it. Geopolitics takes longer than presidential terms, and we certainly can't rely on China's goodwill forever. I'm less concerned about "alienating allies"; Obama and Biden asked little of them and projected weakness.

^ Tell me you know nothing about scientific value creation without actually saying it. You have no facts, no knowledge of economics, and a bunch of conspiracy theories from the biggest hiring blunder the administration has made.
Troll or tard? My answer: both.

Ron, if you really understood investing well enough to be sure of that, you 'd be too rich to be wasting your time posting here. You'd be on a yacht, with a brigade of rotating TJ BGs. It could well be that a correction was coming sooner or later, and that trying to delay the inevitable would do more harm than good.

This video is an interesting take on what Trump is up to: www.youtube.com

It's highly questionable that implementing tariffs with no pre-announcement or ramp up is wise. Market economies don't respond well to major, unexpected changes.

@PT
Which brings us back to the problems that Mr Trump is causing, riddle me this, who’s going to sign a long term deal with us now that Trump has demonstrated the commitments made by our prior leaders are subject to the whims and capricious behavior of a future president, my opinion is it’s going to be very difficult to get international deals done after this administration leaves town, they’ve in less than two months killed the credibility of the full faith and credit of the United States of America.

Puddy, so your opinion on RFK is hes the biggest blunder ever? Why? What is your issue with him is it his anti vaxx beliefs or his anti fluoride beliefs?

How does knowledge of economics relate to my comments on rfk, and NIH and orher agencies? I have a very good understanding of economics actually, i have studied it extensively, and you do understand that technically we arent even supposed to be funding agencies like NIH, even that is in itself a form of socialized healthcare, not something the government should be funding with tax dollars. But besides the economic argument, if you understand human nature you would see the issues with the pharma industry.

@25 - You're right, I'm not on board with that, and have said that. But that gets to a deeper problem of the power of the executive, and policies whipsawing with every new administration. Rightfully, this should be handled by Congress, but they're too busy grandstanding and posturing for the next office. But in the end, other countries make deals with us because they have to. Might sound harsh, but it's true.

@rickmicrobrain - All of those. He's never run anything comparable to HHS. If his last name weren't Kennedy, he'd be a fruitcake environmental lawyer. Show me his credentials to opine on vaccines and fluoride. In what scientific journals has he published? What laws has he passed that increase innovation?

You show no knowledge of economics whatsoever and are just spouting conspiracy theories. Socialized medicine? Do you even know what the fuck that means? Do you think the governments of the UK, Canada, France, Germany, and Japan direct all medical research as well? Invent diseases? What, Alzheimer's, cancer, heart attacks didn't exist before pharmaceutical companies discovered they could make a buck off them?

Why don't you opine on Kleenex, Jergens, and OnlyFans. Something you're more experienced with.

To be fair the elderly are very frightened of change so while a bad day on the stock market may mean jack shit to me; old people fucking freak out.

@PT
It’s really not a deeper issue it’s purely a Donald Trump issue, I can’t think of any other POTUS’s that have undermined their predecessors or successors in such a vulgar public way, history will not be kind to Mr Trump and this type of behavior is unprecedented, not to mention how much congress has abdicated its own responsibilities and ceded such an enormous portion of their own power and responsibilities.

^ It isn't just Trump. Our foreign policy whipsaws back and forth with every administration and a flood of executive orders. Look at our Iran policy from Obama (aka Valerie Jarrett) to Trump to Biden (aka Valerie Jarrett) to Trump.

If it were purely a Trump issue, we'll have nothing to worry about when he's gone.

Agreed on Congress ceding authority to the judicial and executive branches. I'd love a Reagan/O'Neill or Clinton/Gingrich who could collaborate to get things done.

@puddy i had to look up jergens, and i have limited experience paying for OF but that is something that relates to economics in itself.

As far as alzheimers, heart disease, cancer, the irony is almost every pharmaceutical medicine, vaccine, and other intervention literally contributes to those diseases. All their interventions damage dna, cause inflammation, oxidative stress which leads to cancer and all those other diseases. Do you get the flu shot every year, and vaccines for every disease? Did you get the covid vaccine plus the recommended yearly boosters?

Whether something is in a scientific journal is irrelevant, as far as side effects are concerned google and anecdotal experiences are much more valuable. Scientific journals can be biased or corrupt.

Taxpayer dollars are not meant to be used for all these random little agencies, especially something like NIH which doesnt even relate to essential government functions which really are just supposed to be the court system, military, police

To be sure, this is 100% on Trump. We know how he loves to deflect blame, this is all on him. We will see how it works out, would not want to be a republican running for congress next term

^ LOL, more conspiracy theories from our resident dumbass.

Yep, I'm well vaccinated, because measles and pertussis are making a comeback because people like you get info from mommy blogs and anecdotes.

Scientific journals are the gold standard because the data is out there for everyone to see and poke holes in it.

Essential function or not, R&D keeps America prosperous and competitive.

But you're doing a great job of showing how vapid and unserious libertarians are.

@PT
Those other examples don’t exist like I said, Trump has tried to cast aspersions on his predecessor and his successor, not in my lifetime has any former president been so disruptive and disrespectful towards previous or successive presidents, yes there have been disputes but never has there been such animosity publicly displayed it’s purely a phenomenon attributable to Donald Trump, and that is problematic. It’s not every administration it’s singular to both of his non sequential terms, and I suspect if he is still alive after this final term ends he’ll continue to be a disruptive influence in America.

^ He was elected to be disruptive. Now, the "Right Track/Wrong Track" is better than it's been in like 15 years. Like I said, if it's just about him, it'll be dust in the wind by 2028.

If he's still "disruptive," it's because the left can't let go of him. He's their Emmanuel Goldstein (from 1984). They hated him since he descended the escalator in 2015. I doubt he'll be a shadow president like Obama, who didn't even move out of DC and was seen with foreign leaders despite being a private citizen.

SkiDumb, you freak out everyday about inane petty meaningless shit, so whatever is happening today is totally your MO for what the elderly do.

Puddy isnt measles a once per lifetime vaccine? What about all the different covid boosters and yearly flu shot? If theres no risks no side effects, why not just get these yearly vaccines every year as recommended? Plus the tetanus every 10 years i believe, maybe others every 10 years

^ Once you get the MMR shot a couple times as a kid, you're good. The other problem with measles is that it attacks your long-lasting immune cells. Meaning getting the disease kills your immunity to other things. The Vitamin A hypothesis is unproven. You're better off not getting the disease in the first place. It's estimated that the measles vaccine has saved almost 100 million lives since it was invented.

Actually, I've gotten my COVID boosters and flu shots, HPV which all mongers should get.

There are risks to everything, but I'll take the risk of the vax over the risk of the disease any day.

What is the vitamin A hypothesis, that vitamin A consumption kills measles?

^ Yes.

Rickmicrobrain is at it again, I see!

‘They will see how great it will become’ — Donald Trump, 2009

That was Trump hyping his Atlantic City casino back in 2009, before it went out of business permanently after another bankruptcy.

We're going to have a bad recession. Maybe as bad or worse than the one the US had in Reagan's first term. But Reagan had a second term. It's going to boil down to whether US manufacturing can really ramp up reasonably fast, and replace the imports, eventually at roughly comparable prices. I don't see how that can happen, unless there's a potential for huge productivity gains, that just need a supportive economic environment to be triggered. If we really get that lucky, people may look back on the upcoming shitstorm, and say it was worth it.

What a bunch of whining low T fucking panzies in the comments. TWO that's right TWO years in the past four decades incomes have risen faster than inflation. The other 38 years the producers in this country have been bled to death as we've moved to a service / property based GDP. Those two years? 2018 and 2019. So yeah, fuck the stock market and you blue city shit hole faggots that wouldn't survive a week without the energy, food and trucking provided by the "uneducated, fly over state rednecks.

Looks like Congress is maybe thinking about having a spine: www.pbs.org

We are headed for a recession and it's completely unnecessary. We can thank all of the morons who voted for this. Being a Trump supporter is basically like being a Hitler supporter in 1935. The level of stupidity to continue to support Trump is literally off the charts . None of this bullshit needed to happen.

Short term: It’s good. Use the leverage we have to get everyone else to lower their tariffs on our shit. That’s already happening. Bring these motherfuckers to the table. If that’s the play it’s genius.

Long Term: Not a fan.

It’s gotta be a short term, negotiating club type thing for it to work. Here’s Ronald Reagan on tarriffs m.youtube.com

Bill Ackman said it best:
x.com

^^^I am looking forward to a recession. Democrats will suffer more, complain more and have less. Strippers will lower prices. All good.

Never has a single person caused so much nationsl loss of wealth. But at least in 2 years we can all get jobs in assembly lines at minimum wage gluing nikes.

^ A recession was inevitable at some point, especially once Biden's ridiculous blowout spending was scaled back. Housing prices and the stock market have been in outrageous bubbles for some time now. Inflation continues to simmer under the surface. Something has to give - the economy needs a reset to get back to healthy organic growth.

So to Trump now must seem like the ideal time to impose these tariffs and renegotiate trade deals. I suspect he's modeling off the Reagan years, which involved getting the economic pain out of the way early in the first term so that things were much better by the end of the term.

Yes lets blame Biden. That should work. FYI Reagan fought for free trade and sent us on a 45 year economic boom which officially ended on liberation day.

Longb, of course the inflation was Biden's fault. Out of control government spending resulted in an inflationary sugar high that had to end at some point. It was simply unsustainable. Anyone who has ever studied economics, or even actively participated in the stock market, understands this. Biden simply tried to hold a recession off by doubling down on the outrageous debt fueled spending, which, not surprisingly, just made thing worse by spawning unnatural and uneven outcomes.

Now do I like how Trump is doing this? Not especially. But I see what he's thinking and why he's doing it. The die is cast as they say, so now let's hope that he's right. I think a lot of the long-term impact will depend on whether he's willing to lower or remove these tariffs over time.

^ @RD
Suggestions that Ronald Reagan a legitimate conservative and an avowed free trade advocate would support this are more than ridiculous.
@PT
It’s one thing to be disruptive, Trump isn’t disruptive, he’s chaotic and has no clue how to manage a government, insulting people and provoking our allies is idiotic, have you noticed he’s put zero tariffs on his buddies in Russia.
🐧🐧🐧🐧🐧🐧🐧🐧🍑🍑🍑🍑🍑🍑🍑🍑

But no worries Longb, I understand your confusion. If I'm not mistaken, you reside in California, the land of mass delusions where competent government and basic common sense take a back seat to feel good nonsense, if they're even allowed in the car at all. 😉

People in California have spent the last 30+ years voting for politicians who have fucked the state's budget and cost of living with a rhino dick. Taxing anything that moves has consequences, as do onerous climate policies and unsustainable deficit spending which includes enormous long-term and crazily underfunded pension obligations. All of which might have been manageable if people would just stay put and accept the never-ending ass fucking, but of course affluent people are fleeing in droves with no end in sight.

But at least you understand that even a short-term downturn will result in massive pain for CA, so I'll give you a little credit. The CA state budget is a house of cards that is heavily reliant on realized capital gains. When the stock market goes down the drain for any period of time, so too does the CA state budget.

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

===> "Suggestions that Ronald Reagan a legitimate conservative and an avowed free trade advocate would support this are more than ridiculous."

@25: I thoroughly agree with all of that. I merely stated that Trump may be trying to engineer an outcome similar to that experienced in Reagan's first term, with early economic pain followed by a robust recovery. I agree that Reagan would never have supported his methods for doing so.

California is a great state. Home to marvelous destinations for beaches, mountains and parks. Home to world wide centers of finance, entertainment and tech. It's got the highest GDP of any state and one of the highest GDPs per capita in the country (bested only by a handful of other blue states like Washington and Illinois.) If it were a nation of it's own it would be the 5th largest in the world by GDP.

People who talk shit about California demonstrate two things:

#1 They've never been to California.
#2 They watch too much fox news.

This double true when the speaker is from some shithole red state with low literacy, high teen pregnancy, terrible crime and a shitty GDP per cap. Talk about fucking stupid!

^ he’s not going to get the outcome he wants, this is a different world than the world Ronald Reagan presided over than in the 1980s , for one thing these factories that do onshore, will need less workers, so like it or not, we need to provide services that are needed by the rest of the world, making widgets and cars and even washing machines are more and more being produced by robots using AI, and pricing patterns are going to rise, not come down. This is being done by the President none of these people, Besent, Lutnik, Navarro, have the gumption to tell Trump the truth, and the truth is MAGA is a suckers bet.

To get this thread back on track:

* "iTs nOt a EVeN COrReCTiON" morons are all wrong, all our US indicies are in correction territory now.
* All of this mayhem is without purpose, point or benefit and most important was totally preventable.
* Our biggest economic competitors (China, Germany) are weathering this storm much better than we are.
* See the attached graph, which demonstrates that you orange dicksuckers are idiots.

The only solace I will take from this nightmare of a week is that many Trump supporting boomers are going to spend their last years on the planet being much poorer, which serves them right.

@RonJax: I've spend plenty of time in California. I agree that it has a lot of beautiful places.

But you knuckleheads keep electing people who prioritize feel good nonsense and social messaging over common sense governance. You can try to comfort yourself all you want by with that nonsensical rant about red states (many of which I suspect you haven't been to), but the realities that I posted above are what they are.

California has been on a never-ending march to fuck up its cities, its schools, its state budget and its cost of living. GDP stats, per cap or otherwise, don't matter in a place that has been made unlivable for too many people. The people you elect could fuck up a ham sandwich.

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Short term: It’s good. Use the leverage we have to get everyone else to lower their tariffs on our shit. That’s already happening.

This has got to be the stupidiest thing I've ever read. Here's what's happening in the short term and long term:

Short term: Billions of dollars of value lost. And foreign tarriffs have increased not decreased. Read the fucking news @Muddy, you uninformed troglodyte! Trump has dick for leverage and his trade war is doing NOTHING to lower foreign tarrifs on US goods, and in fact the opposite is happening.

Long term: Major inflation. Massive recession or major depression. Eventually we will remove this disaster of a president and elect a sane and responsible one who believes in economic liberty as all Americans should.

And of course, if there is an extended market downturn, CA's already wobbly budget will completely blow up. How utterly fucking stupid is it to build your budget like that?

And what did CA do with those tens of billions in COVID dollars that were poured upon the state for so-called "temporary" relief? They used it to create more permanent spending programs that would require future funding.

Stupid is as stupid does.

^ LOL. OK, so now it's officially a correction. Also not the end of the world. We've had a million of them. Again, you're measuring everything by the stock market, which the left has spent years saying isn't a good measure of the economy.

I guess that means less Tijuana for you; you might have to get some sex without paying for it. Or maybe Trump will let you suck his dick, which you seem obsessed with.

California's getting taxed and fucked into the ground. Taxes whip between surplus and deficit based on one thing--tech stock gains. Just wait until other tech companies follow Tesla's lead and depart for redder pastures. It's such a wonderful place that people are fleeing it left and right!

If you think America is going to be that poorly off, the door isn't locked from the inside.

^ what correction, the market was fine until Trump started this bullshit
🐤🍑🐤🍑🐤🍑🐤🍑🐤🍑🐤🍑🐤

A reminder to all of the fools still making excuses for Trump, if Kamala was in office the stock market would be going up and inflation was at like 2%. Your orange clown is responsible for our tremendously tanking economy.

@dusty: Right, because printing money to fund runaway government spending always leads to positive long-term outcomes. 😉

Kamala was a Biden clone. The economy wasnt good. Prices were going up like crazy. Biden refused to address rents and groceries. Kamala would have been just as inactive. A change was needed. The only good things Trump did was deport Cubans and stop funding Ukraine.

The best bet is a Democrat congress will make him a lame duck president after midterm elections

California has one major issue. Cost of housing. Everyone wants to live in California. People leave for two good reasons. They move to a state where they can afford to buy a house. Or they retire and sell their house for a huge profit and move to a area with lower cost housing and pocket the difference.
My situation is house is paid for and property taxes are 1/4% so no reason to sell.

Update: Vietnam is already starting to roll over. Expect this to be the first of many to come. I wouldn't be surprised to see Singapore and Thailand quickly follow suit.

Some of the bigger ones may hold out longer, but eventually some of them will have to give too. Once the smaller Asian countries roll over, China is going to be in a heck of a tough position. Wayfair and Nike have already provided the roadmap to moving manufacturing from China to Vietnam and others. China's economy is also already struggling. Losing more manufacturing plants to other Asian countries could be devastating.

It's hard to guess what Japan will do. We are over 15% of its export market.
My best guess is that they will support their automakers building more manufacturing plants here in the U.S. and make some concessions in other areas. TBD.

More to come.

Update (that is actually based in reality.)

📉DJIA: 38,670

##🔻4.77% Today
##🔻12.17% Since Trump was Inaugurated

China has imposed 34% retaliatory tariffs as Europe Canada and other nations weigh retaliations.

Only in the imaginary right-wing universe is any nation "rolling over". And only if you chug orange semen by the gallon do you believe that Japan is going to start investing in manufacturing in the US as a consequence.

@RonJax: It's Day 0 dude. This will be a process.

Single day market moves aren't something to panic over, unless you're talking about Black Monday, which this most certainly is not. So take a deep breath. Think. Listen. Watch. Find a bit of manly stoicism and tamp down the shrill girly squeals until you have something tangible to panic over.

@rickdugan A process of what exactly? Slowly making us poorer until we can finally oust this budget Mussolini and end these taxes on our livelihoods?

How about instead of imagining grand scenarios that will never come to pass using the expired economic ideas of the 18th century, you actually get yourself educated about economics and how tariffs work?

I wonder if the hatred of California is related to it having the highest latino and persian population.
What % of the right would be okay with trump putting latinos or iranians there in internment camps like FDR? Or going to war with California? All he would need to do is make statements about latino gangsters or iranian immigrants being prevalent there- and he could do whatever he wanted to those particular populations

Right now this is a game of brinksmanship. The 9th, when most of these tariffs are due to begin, is several days away. He built in that ramp for a reason.

President Xi made this announcement this soon for a reason, part of which is to stoke further fear in the U.S. Boy with some of you weak stomached types mission accomplished. Whether he really wants to go head to head is entirely another matter. China relies heavily upon exports to fuel its economy and keep Chinese citizens gainfully employed and we are 15% of its export markets. A trade war with us would very quickly plunge China into a potentially deep recession.

So take a deep breath. Think. Listen. Watch. Find a bit of manly stoicism and tamp down the shrill girly squeals until you have something tangible to panic over.

Icey your issue with the Cubans is because they made it harder for you to pimp out the crack-hos you were affiliated with. The Cubans were beating the locals at their own game

@rickdugan you keep talking about "girly squeals", and I get it.

It's projection.

There's simply nothing more emasculating than getting sucked into a the cult of personality of an orange cheeto. I feel sorry for those of you who are stuck in it, and lament the cognitive dissonance that will prevent you from waking up and realizing you've been conned. (Because honestly, if a 12% drop in the market doesn't do it for you, nothing will.)

"if Kamala was in office the stock market would be going up and inflation was at like 2%"

Biden was president for most of January (3%) and 10 days isn't enough to enact anything that would change the economy. I'll file this hypothetical alongside your Trump under 200 EVs prediction, which might have been allowed because it's Democrat-friendly misinformation (i.e. the acceptable kind).

"Everyone wants to live in California. People leave for two good reasons."

LOL! Way to contradict yourself in consecutive sentences. Yeah, between cost of living, ass-pounding taxes, brownouts, the place going up in flames, earthquakes, crime, homelessness, and generally being the guinea pig for every insane progressive idea, how could anyone refuse that?

"Because honestly, if a 12% drop in the market doesn't do it for you, nothing will."

If a 12% drop in the market is the end of the world, you don't have the stomach to be in the stock market. I've ridden out bigger.

A little psychotherapy might help you deal with the travails of everyday life.
Dr. Freud might help find the roots of your fixation with Trump's penis, asshole, and semen, as well.

@RMD: I think California is beautiful. If the politicians and the people who elect them didn't do such stupid things, I might even consider it to be a desirable destination. I love the weather there most of the year.

RonJax is sadly a shining example of this. He is one of the countless knuckleheads who continue to vote for politicians who have kept California on its never-ending march to fucking up its cities, its schools, its state budget, its cost of living and even its power grid.

They don't care about the horrible long-term consequences of taxing anything that moves, keeping in place economically damaging and unachievable climate policies, giving up control of their schools to the teachers unions or continuing unsustainable deficit spending (including enormous long-term and crazily underfunded pension obligations). Nope. They just want the politician to make them feel good when they make these horrible choices.

The profoundly incompetent weasel Newsom understands all of this and excels at. They'll accept his endless fucking with all of the above so long as he rubs their heads and tells them that they're doing the right thing in the process.

The Bad Orange Man, OTOH, is simply too abrasive for them to handle. He doesn't make them feel good - instead he makes them feel triggered. So every time he does something that they consider extreme, they erupt in shrill panic, unable to calm themselves and focus on the actual outcome to date. In this case, it's panic over a market that has a couple of bad days.

Also looking at the comment history of some of the Trump supporters here on TUSCL, it's this

^ this is what happens when you put your trust in grifters, just look at the numbers and instead of your elected leader being up in front, leading the country he’s busy entertaining a group of billionaires and making money with a golf tournament at his private clubs, shameful behavior.

^^ Also
"We were due for a recession, it's Biden's fault."

The Trump supporters on here are like the people sinking on the Titanic while still defending the captain of the ship for not having enough life boats. He caused your death and you still defend him. After Hoover imposed tariffs which failed miserably Republicans were voted out of office in droves so something similar may happen in the near future.

^ Caused our deaths?
Talk about being a drama queen.

dusty - It sounds like you're rooting for the tariffs to fail so we can just go back to getting ripped off. You're probably the kind of guy who gets two dances, the girl says it was five, you fork over the cash, and then return to her again the next day.

Viet nam tarrif was 1% and ee are charging 54%. It was all lies. Not surprised. The number used is actually hard goods trade imbalance. But the US makes money off of tech sevices, cloud, software, subscriptions, advertising. Plus the US gets a load of foreign investment in bonds and stocks. All a big lie from the worlds biggest liar

California taxes are overplayed. Income tax is highly graduated and unless you make over $250,000 a year is not that much. We have higher gas taxes but very few toll roads. And anyone who has owned a home for 15 years is paying very low property taxes. It gets bad if you make a lot but for the avg worker no worse than most states.

^ 3rd worst burden behind NY and NJ, don't currently own a home there and yeah, that bracket would cut into me. Mass is already bad enough on taxes, I own a place at a great rate, and until Mayor Wu, we were only in the 5th level of progressive mental retardation hell. Think she wants to move us at least to the 7th. San Fran, Chicago, and New York are the 9th.

We don't all want to live there, that sounds like something someone who doesn't get out the house much says.

Really, unlike the Beach Boys, we don't wish they could all be California girls. Do us a favor and keep Gov Newsom west of the Sierra Nevadas, couldya?

Trump filed papers in the last few days to sell his $DJT shares, if any of you MAGA guy are holding shares in his Truth Social companies you'd best dump it before it goes to zero.

^ Anyone who bought Truth Social after the election deserves to lose it.
Do you personally know anyone who uses it?
I don't. It's a meme stock. Always was.

finance.yahoo.com

Some of you guys are embarrassing yourselves now with this hyper-emotional shrill panic.

The biggest tariffs don't even kick in until next week. We do not yet know whether he will scale any of them back before the deadline, but you can bet that a number of nations are trying tp persuade him to. And even if they go into full force and effect on Day 1, we have no idea how long they will last or what their ultimate impact will be.

I still believe that many of these will be scaled back fairly quickly, some before the deadline and another batch shortly after. The last batch will be the hardline holdouts, who will be eventually forced to the table to keep their exporters from leaving for better venues.

^ Cut the bullshit Rick, these guys have a right to be worried, this guy has been lying to us for years, why don't you short some of these stocks, I mean you're such a manly, man, anyone who isn't concerned hasn't got a lick of sense, but not you, I don't believe you have anything much in the market, and even if you do, you're a ways off till you retire. Most retirees don't want to lose money, hell I don't like to lose money, I've probably been through this kind of thing a few more times than you, and have more in cash than I need through the end of Trumps term and even though I always came back stronger than before, it's still nerve wracking.

@puddy I looked at Truth Social (as a user, not an investor) and decided against it. I barely use the socials I already have, why did I need another?

The pearl-clutching meltdown libs cannot comprehend that these tariffs needed to happen. These tariffs are only 50% of the tariffs THEY have been charging the US, and 10% at a minimum. If you want good, high-paying jobs in America, reduced trade deficit, and national security through domestic production, these are an unavoidable step in making that a reality.

This is not about Trump. Liberals want it to be about Trump so they can rail against it. This is really about American security and prosperity, and that is what the dems/libs/lefties are fighting against and trying to prevent.

^ 25, if you're so worried about your portfolio that you're sweating daily market moves then you're investing incorrectly. Also, if you've been in the market long enough to understand how market cycles work, then you should know better.

I'm not sweating my retirement portfolio because I know that, even if the market crashes, it will eventually come back. Frankly you should know that too by now.

But what heavy market volatility DOES do is give me opportunities to play more with my side non-retirement portfolio. I made a killing in the 2008 crash by keeping some powder dry and making moves on a few good companies that were pummeled far beyond what was remotely reasonable given their business models. I made some nice change on the 2020 market downturn too, though not as much since the market didn't crater as much and started recovering fairly quickly.

I haven't made any moves yet in this downturn as I don't believe that the panic selling is over, but I'm keeping an eye on a few names. It's about emotional control and analytical thinking. They're still a bit expensive by historical standards, but I'm getting close on one now.

@gammanu95 - I might be one of the few people who, at the beginning of the year, vowed to spend more time on social media for some personal ventures. I have a lot of Republican friends and they're like "Oh, Truth Social? Wait, that's DJT's venture?" It was basically his protest against getting banned from Facebook. I'm not enough of a risk taker to short any stock, but I thought about it.

We're still in the early stages of this, but I have fucktons of investing experience, including as a full-time professional, and seen enough panics. COVID didn't waylay the stock market in March 2020 because we knew millions were going to die from it, it did because we didn't know how bad it could get. Investors, even professionals, panic and do shit like this all the time. Retail investors are straight dumbasses. Some people have made good money trading against "odd lot" shares (meaning small investors, anyone who buys in batches of less than 100 shares). So why should I take my investment advice from @RonJax2 or @dustyj or @longb or @sfrsox or wld4tatas anyone who claims this is full validation and the end of the world? (some, literally) What buy-side or sell-side shop have you worked for? What's your track record? What's your CFA license number?

If 12% is enough to make you panic and cash out, then I wonder how you get through a day in the life. Yeah, I took a hit to my portfolio as well, but why would I cash out today, knowing that this is an ongoing process that's going to whipsaw back and forth? Last two months, the market has swung every time Trump farts. Long-term, either the market goes up, or we're in a place where guns, Spam, and Smirnoff are our currency.

Regardless of the market, there are some things it's imperative to manufacture in the US. We got way the fuck out over our skis sending all our manufacturing capacity to an increasingly belligerent China. We need to bring some of it back, even if it cuts into stock gains.

The Lib Cope Squad, here as elsewhere, treats resilience as a four-letter word, and equates alarm and panic over Trump as a virtue signal. Liberal women are even worse, though I'd karyotype some of the men here just to be sure.

I'm not in a position to put more into the market right now, but I'm standing pat. The smart move is to leave emotion at the door.

^^ It's not about me or what I'm worried about, it's about you and your ridiculing everyone that's got concerns, anyone with no concerns is either full of shit, or stupid, which are you?
BTW if it matters to you, I more than enough to ride this shit out, I sincerely doubt most here do.

@25: I'm ridiculing grown ass men who are running around posting shrill hyperbole about the long-term fallout from tariffs that have not even kicked in yet.

• Repeat snip - We do not yet know whether he will scale any of them back before the deadline, but you can bet that a number of nations are trying tp persuade him to. And even if they go into full force and effect on Day 1, we have no idea how long they will last or what their ultimate impact will be.

Oh, and I doubt that most of the effeminate whiners on here are anywhere close to retirement. They strike as younger and easily triggered. And if they are older and they're still behaving like this, shame on them.

Mean while the Chinese called his bluff, they aren't stupid and neither is Peter Tuchman, or Jim Kramer, or a host of senior business executives, that consider this not only unnecessary but completely dishonest, on Trumps part, look this is totally self inflicted, it is economic vandalism, Trump claimed Vietnam was charging us 90% tarriffs, in reality only 9% and across the board similar outrageous claims are being made by Mr. Trump. he's adding up the trade deficit and adding it to what the difference between the sell and buy cost, and that's totally disingenuous, look the trade deficit is never going to balance out as long as there are differences in population and standards of living, and you know it, this is getting tedious, believe what you like but don't piss in the street and try to tell me it's raining. For gods sake stop calling peoples concerns frivolous, have a little empathy, I know it doesn't come naturally to you MAGA folks you all seem to think you know it all, but I can attest that it ain't so, but even when you are shown proof y'all deny it , using the worn out tropes calling any source that doesn't conform to your groupthink is fake news. Trust me it ain't all fake news, more likely your sources just publish what is approved by your dear leader.

^ Actually Jim Cramer is a dumbass's dumbass.
Some investors calculated the "inverse Cramer" index, and it beats the market.

^ So how about Seigel, Professor Emeritus of economics, at Wharton, he says this is the worst economic policy in over 100 years.

@25: I watched Mad Money today too and I thought that Kramer was being a drama queen.

My "sources" actually don't like Trump's tariff moves either. Why is it that emotionally weak and intellectually deficient types always assume that someone with a different opinion must be getting it spoon fed from an editorial source? I am simply able to process data from multiple sources and form my own opinion. You might like to try it sometime.

And my opinion is that, if he moves forward as proposed, keep those tariffs in place for a significant length of time could be ruinous. I'm just far from convinced that this is his actual plan.

I have zero empathy or sympathy for any grown man who behaves in a panicky manner in the face of adversity, especially those who chase phantoms and predict doomsday long before we have any remote indications of such. Men are supposed to be better than that.

@25: Seigel is even a bigger dumbass, by a lot. That moron has been coming on CNBC for years pretty consistently getting it wrong, not the least of which was his stubborn insistence that the inflation was 'transitory" until he finally had to abandon that position in the face of overwhelming evidence otherwise.

@PT
I don't think Seigel was the one claiming that inflation was transitory, and didn't Trumps press secretary say the same thing last week, This is what I'm talking about, MAGA approved sources, what about J.D.Vance until he got the nomination he was claiming that protectionism in the form of tariffs was idiotic, and then he got the nomination so he deleted all those anti-Tump posts where ever he could find them.

@RD
What you call panicky is emotional in my mind, I certainly am not panicking just completely annoyed that anyone would think this bullshit is a sound strategy in this day and age, given the history and documentation that is readily available about this crap, I call this junk economics.

@25: It was me who said it and he most certainly was. I keep CNBC on in the background during my work day and I heard it straight from his own mouth. He felt that it was all about supply side constraints, utterly ignoring the massive amounts of money we started pouring into an already recovering economy through the American Inflation Plan and continuing with the Inflation Enhancement Act (I took the liberty of giving these their proper names, not the Orwellian titles they were labelled with).

Suppose you had a six pack of beer, and some desperate alcoholic gave you $1,000 for one of the beers. Would you then think the other 5 beers were $5,000 of "wealth"? That's kinda how the stock market works.

Don't waste your time with people who talk about "destroyed wealth" because of a big market drop. Such drops are inevitable. A lot of stock investors are looking for fast capital appreciation. Fast capital appreciation relies on companies intelligently reinvesting earnings, rather than paying dividends or buying back their own stock. Some companies are very good at this, and some are very good at making it look like they are very good at this. Smart investors understand the risks. The not-smart ones think it's a sure thing, which makes it even more risky for them.

Look for earnings warnings, and companies badly missing the earning projections from the big investment banks and brokerages. That will be the real sign that tariffs are whacking market fundamentals. I think this is coming. But, since I'm not on the yacht with Ron, that tells you my predictions are worth shit.

Can’t believe Magatards believe in trumps disinformation. He’s been gaslighting America with his fake news propaganda as he misinforms everyone that tariffs are a tax on other countries. There’s so much history to show what they do, and he’s trying to take us back 100 years to pre-depression era. That’s not being hyper emotional with trump derangement syndrome, that’s simply cold hard facts during Woodrow Wilson days, at least I think he was the president at the time. There’s no good that comes of it. Can we say “Taj Mahal”, because that’s the kind of business dealings trump is accustomed to creating. Congress might have to strip in and fire him.

Wheeeeeee

There is nothing to discuss. Wall street has answered the question. Wall street is excited about AI and does not give a shit about a new factory to make vacuum cleaners

@RD
I looked it up and no Siegel of Wharton did not claim that inflation was transitory, he actually said that inflation would be a bigger problem then the Federal Reserve thought it would be, so you are wrong and you never heard that on CNBC. google it yourself.

25: He most certainly did. Just because you can't find a clip from CNBC going back that far doesn't mean it didn't happen. He changed his tune in 2022, like so many of the other Biden apologists posing as economists, when it was clear that we had a real problem. Ever since he has pretty consistently been wrong

He's a hack. CNBC keeps trotting him out because his views of economics conform with the producers' political beliefs. He, much like Alan Blinder, who often posts opinions in the WSJ, are part of a breed of "new monetary theory" economists who doesn't mind being consistently and publicly wrong. Every time I hear his nasally and reedy voice start up on CNBC, I know that something melodramatic and likely ill informed is about to pop out.

No wonder progressives fail.

He absolutely did not Google, Duck Duck Go, safari all say absolutely not, not that they say nothing, they say it is not so. BTW I watch CNBC and Bloomberg all the time, CNBC trots out Kramer often very rarely do I see Siegel.

Hers another question for you financial geniuses, how long do you plan to be supporting this idiotic plan of Trump’s, before seeing tangible results, a week, a month, six months, a year. ?
When do you admit that this doesn’t work?

Dude, Siegel was among the loudest "inflation is transitory" voices out there in 2021 and heading into 2022. The fact that you can't find it doesn't mean that it didn't happen. I heard it and will never forget it because I was yelling at the TV, lol, which was almost as dumb as his comments. 😉

But it didn't end there. During the latter part of 2022, he continuously criticized the Fed for hiking rates too much too fast. In fact, in September of 2022, he was characterizing the Fed's stance as already restrictive and calling for them to stop. Around then he was making dire predictions about what would happen if they kept cutting. This was when the rate was a full 225 basis points below where the Fed finally stopped in 2023. Thank goodness nobody listened to this moron or else who knows how much worse it would have been.

He's a Grade A fucking hack.

That should have been "kept hiking" rather than "kept cutting."

They’re all hacks but that doesn’t change the fact that he never said that.

I'm not going to keep debating whether he said it or not because you seem to think that not finding it in your online searches equates to it never happening. He's hardly the only one who removed online content from that period out of shame and in an attempt at revisionist history.

But even putting that aside, he's a hack who has been consistently wrong for years, issuing dire prognostications along the way that never came to pass. Suffice it to say that he doesn't have any credibility anymore to anyone who has followed him these past 4 years. Yet another dire prognostication from him is hardly out of character for this shuckster.

That's not to say that I disagree that holding these tariffs on for any significant length of time could be very damaging. But Siegel is about the last person who I would want to quote in supporting my position.

At what point do you admit the man you voted for is a complete failure? Inflation was 2.9% 12/23 to 12/24. What do you think it will be this year? The stock market was going up consistently until Trump. How about this year? Regardless of whether you've argued against the libs your entire life the country would be waaay better off with Kamala in office. How much failure do you have to watch to admit that?

Look if Trump is successful and gets these companies to open factories in this country, it’s going to be 5 or 10 engineers keeping a bunch of robots busy, there’s no longer going to be assembly lines with 500 people working per shift, productivity will be such that manufacturing will no longer be labor intensive, this will not be the industrial revolution it’ll be the end of employment and these folks will need to learn completely new skills in order to make a living wage in this economy.

dusty, the economy was on an unsustainable debt fueled binge that was leaving half the population behind with much higher ongoing inflation on things that poorer people spend the most on as a % of income. If the picture was as rosy as you believe, Trump never would have been re-elected.

I'll judge whether Trump is ultimately a success or failure when there is enough data to make that judgment. Right now it's just a lot of shrill noise over things that haven't actually happened yet. This thing is likely going to need several months to play out in any meaningful way.

"the country would be waaay better off with Kamala in office"

You are one fucked up motherfucker, dustyj.

Great specifics Mr Orange! So if the stock market continues to tank while prices keep going up on everything you'll admit that we should get Trump the fuck out of office as soon as possible then correct. Trump is playing golf this weekend and could care less about any of this by the way.

Trump has already set up Powell to be the fall guy, he tweeted yesterday that the Fed should lower interest rates, I don’t think Powell will but, I don’t think Trump really cares as long as he can shift the blame from himself

^^ I am playing golf too. None of this concerns hard-working Americans, just Democrats.

You didn't just collapse the world economy skibum.

Well ski, I don't think that's fair either. A lot of people on both sides of the aisle are watching all of this closely and considering how this might all shake out, this hard-working American included. A prolonged trade war could be disastrous for all of us.

I've just been saying that all these crazy ass doomsday prognostications and shrill girly squeals are way too premature. We have no idea how this is all going to shake out.

But I will say that all too many soft whiny types making loud noises are playing right into Xi's hands. Why do you think that Xi made his retaliatory announcement when he did? To induce the exact type of thoughtless panic shown by all too many supposed grown men on this board and elsewhere, which in turn led to a bad market day.

The die is cast. The best thing we can do for the time being is to stay the course and hope he's right.

Gasoline prices where I live have come down by about $1.75 / gal in the last couple months. To me, that's a savings of $200 a month. We should see lower home heat & electric costs also. And food prices tend to follow energy prices.

If I had to guess, I'll probably save $500 a month. So what if I have to pay a few percent more for durable goods? I can't think of a single thing I need right now. And let's say my washing machine craps out. Da fuck I care if it costs a couple hundred more for a new one that will last until I die?

Chicken Little Democrats will scream about the cost of a stapler or a garden hose, while they piss away hundreds of billions on their Fake Green Deal and support of criminal aliens.

We have no idea how this is all going to shake out.

No. We know EXACTLY how this is shaking out. Something like 6 trillion in value was wiped out last week. It's an act of economic terrorism completely without precedent in post-War America.

The best thing we can do for the time being is to stay the course and hope he's right.

For god's sake no. The best thing we can all do is fight this tyrant with everything we can.

This is particularly important for conservatives who voted GOP but not for their retirement savings to be destroyed. CALL YOUR MEMBERS OF CONGRESS. Demand that they impose strict limits on the Executive's ability to impose tariffs. We live in a republic, not an autocracy. Demand that your members of congress exercise their authority to stop this disastrous trade war!

And donate and vote for pro-trade candidates in the mid-term.

^^ Gas down $1.75 in two months LOL. This is absurd. Gas prices are basically flat over the last two months.
www.gasbuddy.com

^ Pretty ironic to hear the libs touting the stock market as the true measure of the economy, when you've been saying the exact opposite for several decades.

Trump must be the first "tyrant" (lulz) to de-center the federal government in Americans' lives.

"Right now it's just a lot of shrill noise over things that haven't actually happened yet. "

This type of delusional nonsense from @rickdugan is truly pathetic. Maybe back in January this could have been said. But since then, we've seen the fallout from Trump 47, culminating in the huge destruction of wealth we saw last week. That's real impact to people's savings, it is no longer speculation.

U.S. stock market has wiped out $9.6 trillion since Inauguration Day
www.marketwatch.com

@RonJax: Yes dude, we heard you the first hundred times. The sky is falling! The earth is quaking! ARMAGEDDON IS HERE!!!

With all due respect Ron, pussies like you were exactly what Xi was relying upon when he dropped his bombshell announcement yesterday. He wants as much noise and angst as possible from he weaker members of our society and you're just lining up to oblige. He doesn't want to be forced to the bargaining table if he can avoid it.

I won't tell you to man up again because, after all these repetitive melodramatic posts, that's just clearly not in the cards for you. But do give a little thought to where we are in the process now and the other side of the coin if the U.S. backs down now after already committing.

But hey man, maybe I'm just way out of line here. Perhaps you can keep sharing more genius theories about how the U.S. should be tailoring its trade and other foreign policy decisions in a way designed to avoid temporary market volatility. By all means continue. 😉

"Pretty ironic to hear the libs touting the stock market as the true measure of the economy, when you've been saying the exact opposite for several decades."

Lies from Puddy Tat. Both parties typically cite the stock market as one important measure of the economy, but not the only one.

^ Were you in a coma when Michael Moore called the stock market the "rich man's casino"? Or the left said what good are cheap goods if Americans can't buy them?

The Dems have become the party of the rich, particularly those isolated from the consequences of their feel-good beliefs on education, policing, and their unthinking environmentalism.

I assume if you have the money to be strip-clubbing, you're not in the class who had their jobs shipped overseas. I'm certainly not. I've lost enough paper wealth over the last couple months, but I'm not panicking. I'll accept it if those who can't sit behind a desk all day can actually work with dignity, rather than getting snarked by Biden's "learn to code."

Like @rickdugan said, we're early in the game of seeing how this plays out. You're not even spiking the ball on the 1-yard line, you're spiking it on your own 30 (at best).

Or you honestly just know fuckall about the stock market and want to rage-jack your tiny little peckers over Trump, who owns so much of your head it's frightening.

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I am big into the stock market. There is a huge difference between market timing and knowing when a major event will tank the market. The banking crisis of 2007, covid, inflation and the increase in interest rates were not times to be riding it out, they were times to get out. Trump wants to turn our economy from a global economy to a protectionist economy. That is a huge event, I got out a month ago and went to the short etfs and made money this week. This is not the time to hold and wait it out. That is why the smart money is hedged and probably did fine this week, its the 401k workers in the company pool that got killed this week.
Now Trump is in a corner, if he backs down he looks like a fool, and if he doesn't the market will continue down. Its a no win.

@longb - I have a hard time believing someone who wrote your 1st sentence would also write your 3rd. The people who didn't "ride it out" panic-sold at the bottom and locked in their losses. I didn't panic in 2007 or 2020 because, like I said, anything that cripples the stock market (and I don't even call COVID a "crash") is going to cripple society. That's why the lefties here sound like they're trying to win an internet argument rather than invest soundly.

If you made money on short ETFs, good on you, but how long are you planning to hold it for? A week? A month? A year? Until Trump leaves office? It isn't wise to be long-term short when the market on average returns 10% a year, or long the VIX or anything like that.

Warren Buffett said to buy when there's blood in the streets. Right now, a lot of dumb money are slitting their own throats.

If Trump gets concessions, he wins. Every country wants access to the US market; we're still the biggest game in town.

Berkshire Hathaway pulls the rug on a video shared by Trump that claimed Warren Buffett said the president was making ‘the best economic moves’ in 50 years
www.yahoo.com

Trump and his followers keep pumping out lies.

===> "The people who didn't "ride it out" panic-sold at the bottom and locked in their losses. I didn't panic in 2007 or 2020 because, like I said, anything that cripples the stock market (and I don't even call COVID a "crash") is going to cripple society...

...Warren Buffett said to buy when there's blood in the streets. Right now, a lot of dumb money are slitting their own throats. Right now, a lot of dumb money are slitting their own throats."

Exactly. It is almost impossible to accurately time the market. Most of a stock's gains in any given year come from a handful of big up days. Not only do you lock in losses, but they you also miss the upswings for re-allocated or new capital.

I don't think we're quite there yet, but soon enough it's going to be time to deploy some more capital. Tbh I expect more panic on Monday, with maybe one or two other countries announces retaliatory actions. Then dudes like RonJax and wld4testes will be running around once sharing their Armageddon stories with whoever will listen.

Right now I'm thinking that late Monday morning will be the time to start making moves because, by Tuesday or even Monday PM, I would not be surprised to see some positive news start rolling in. The White House phone lines must absolutely be burning up this weekend with countries trying to engineer deals ahead of Wednesday.

25 the shift to AI and robotics is happening even without these tariffs. A bunch of consulting companies all the way back in 2018 started investing heavily in RPA. A robot will have higher investment costs initially, but in the long run will be cheaper than even using a bunch of slaves in china or another slave labor country.

More lies from @rickdugan.

I have not said anything about Armageddon, and I will likely be putting some money to work in the market in the near future. However, I am skeptical we will fully recover anytime soon.

@wld4tatas - Actually it was @RonJax2 who called it Armageddon. You tried to show @rickdugan to be a liar, and instead he showed you to be a dumbass. Until the almighty @founder gives us an edit button, search up and down the thread before you accuse.

@rickdugan - Yes, a few up days are what matters, and people get too clever trying to time them. I don't have deployable capital right now as I'm using my savings to build up some personal ventures, but I'm definitely not panicking. I'm satisfied with where I am.

Everyone times the market, some folks just have better timing than others, and some(politicians of both parties) use inside information

@25 - In a sense and yeah politicians use inside information.

But the average retail investor has no idea what they're up against, whether Nancy Pelosi, Goldman Sachs, or an algorithmic trading shop like DEShaw, and that every time you buy or sell a stock, there's someone on the other end who is probably smarter and better resourced than you, and thinks they're getting the bargain.

I repeat, they have no idea what they're up against. I've seen many day traders buy huge amounts on margin and sell a few minutes later for a few thousand bucks. They make a few good trades and think they've figured it out. Then one bad trade, maybe they hold a little too long, the stock goes the wrong way, and burns their dick off.

Greed kills.

^ I don’t do day trading nor do I do exotic trades like puts or calls, I avoid derivatives and I have a solid portfolio I follow a buy and hold, some stocks I’d never sell. I have been investing since I was 14 years old my pop left my brother and me shares in GS, Home Depot, and Wallmart, some more than 50 years old, if I never sell anything ever again I’ll be fine. Still this is a major fuck up, and Trump is going to pay a price, for being such an arrogant bastard.

^ Puts and calls are pretty basic stuff. I've dabbled in simple options like that, though a lot of them aren't very liquid so they're hard to make money off of. I haven't done exotic trades and hedges and synthetics like some out there, I don't see the point of it. I'm a fundamentals investor, not a stonk trader.

I've PMed with some here who sell the occasional covered call to get clubbing money. Good on them.

But a lot of people out there buying and selling options and futures who have no fucking idea what they're getting into. They don't realize with a $10,000 bet they've put themselves in a position to lose $1,000,000. Then they jump off a skyscraper.

I sent you a DM read it, I ain’t a liar like most here

^ Yep. I trust you.

There are massive protests worldwide against Trump today which are only going to grow larger if this bullshit continues. 1300 protests in the US. Nearly 100,000 people in Washington DC. When you see the amount of people out there it's very difficult to believe that Trump even won in the first place. We've never had a president who so many people just absolutely can't stand anything about the man and so many want him gone.

Its almost 50/50 in the us so for anyone hating him you can find someone who likes him.

^ Yet Trump just won an election and his approval/disapproval is -2.6, which is well above the -17 Biden left office with. Right track/wrong track is better than it's been in 15 years (still -10 but that's an improvement).

Obviously, a lot of people support Trump and his agenda. It's that his haters obsess over the man, form their identity around hating him. Liberals tend to congregate in bubbles and isolate themselves from dissenting beliefs. When your side owns the mass media, you have that luxury.

@Puddy Tat, rickdugan said "Then dudes like RonJax and wld4testes will be running around once sharing their Armageddon stories"

Admit you are mistaken, and rickdugan lied.

^^i was going off the popular vote count differences…very close numbers

So first we were supposed to let stock market volatility dictate American foreign trade policy. Now we're suppose to let protesters dictate it. Got it. 😉

Look, I was as shocked as anybody at the size of the tariffs and I'm not saying I completely agree with how he's doing this. But we're committed now.

As others have pointed out, we have already caused a lot of damage to our relationships with other foreign nations, including a number of allies. Backing down now with nothing to show for it would mean that all that damage was for nothing. Worse, we would look very weak and indecisive in the process. Better to be hated and feared than to still be hated with our proverbial pants down around our ankles.

So he has no choice but to stay the course now. I still don't believe that he intends to ride these tariffs at these levels over a long period of time. His end goal is inevitably to strike more favorable treatment with our trading partners, about which I suspect we'll be hearing more about fairly soon.

@rickdugan - Exactly, just like how the left puts a "heckler's veto" over campus speakers. I can't tell what the fuck these protests were supposed to be about, other than "whatever Trump wants, we want the opposite." Really, it's sour grapes writ large.

Trump is doing exactly what he campaigned on and the American people voted for, and would be the first "fascist" (lulz) to reduce the size and scope of government.

Stay mad, libs!

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Calling it now. The next leg down will be the conference calls when ever ceo lowers guidance due to tariffs and general chaos on what to follow

Here’s who you should be listening to, not the moron with multiple bankruptcies

Elon Musk hopes for ‘zero-tariff situation’ between US and EU

Here’s the link
www.nytimes.com

If you can’t get past the paywall basically Elon hopes for a situation of a free trade zone between the USA & The EU, he goes on to say Peter Navarro is a hack and his MBA from Harvard is a joke because he’s never built anything, all he’s ever done is opine about things he didn’t even do.

So now Elon is suddenly a hero to many who hated him just days ago. I'm not surprised about his feelings on this given his various business interests. At least this dispels the narrative that the Trump Administration is under Musk's control, so that's something anyway. 😉

As an aside, the NYT was once a venerable news source, but those days are long gone. Some years back they reorganized and fired a bunch of the people responsible for checking stories for accuracy and source corroboration, under the guise of speeding up news delivery in the digital age. The result has been evident in its many high profile screwups, including but hardly limited to the Steele Dossier. It always had a left wing tilt to it, but it was still readable as a source of additional data. Now it's nothing more than a rag designed to feed the confirmation bias of one type of reader, replete with endless poorly researched and often melodramatic editorials posing as news stories.

NYT, still the best reporting in the business

Dugan you’re just being silly now

That DOW plot is missing the plunge to 38,314, nice try

The NY post and fox news, breitbart, are just as crazy as any liberal outlet. But as far as trusting media sources, it is both a left and right problem where people trust and go around repeating everything their media sources tell them. Trump could literally go to war with California if he wanted, all the media sources would need to say is that there are a bunch of iranian spies/insurgents and latino gangmembers in Cali that need to be taken care of, and he would basically have full freedom to have anyone beat around, attacked, deported etc for any reason.

Any media source is inherently biased, its a business and they need to sell stories, beyond that it is biased depending on the views of its owners and shareholders, as well as on its viewers. Media sources want to sell stories that their viewers will want to hear and pay for. We know that the left will focus on anti cop, anti white, racism or lgbtq related topics whereas the right will be anti communist/socialist, anti arab, anti immigrant. These views then pass onto the followers and independent journalists like youtubers, and is why you see the right and left ascribing to these specific sorts of views. I would also say the left is more likely to want to destroy the country domestically, via allowing criminals to run around, whereas the right wants to destroy the country internationally, via taking over random countries or bombing the middle east or communist countries.

There are two American institutions that are 100% unbiased. Las Vegas sports book and Wall Street. No amount of word salad is going to make this look like anything other than a disaster

"NYT, still the best reporting in the business"
LOL yeah, with editor-in-chief Dean Baquet explicitly saying advocacy was more important than truth.
How about that Walter Duranty, anyways?
Really, do you trust anywhere as an objective source, and not just because it barfs back your preconceptions?
At least Salon and The Nation (and Fox and Breitbart like others have mentioned) admit what they are.
At least WaPo has dropped the pretense. Like most papers, admit it or not, they're just sucking their wealthy owner's dick.

I read sources from all sides, assume they're putting forth their best arguments, and form opinions accordingly.

"That DOW plot is missing the plunge to 38,314"
Still small. Go ahead and panic, then. Why does the left think being a bunch of shrill little bitches is a sign of virtue? The election's over, are you still competing over who can be the most wounded?

Word

It is impossible to teach a person anything if that person is so pathetically stupid, they think the NYT is anything other than a socialist rag, incapable of reporting the news honestly.

Hmm, the market has a couple good days and the Lib Cope Squad(TM) suddenly isn't screeching so loud anymore.
No more spiking the football and declaring the trade war a rout after two days.
@dustyj, @wld4tatas, why so quiet?
Could it be your TDS short-circuited your rational minds, like it has the rest of the left?
Why so quiet?

I don’t think this is over yet, probably a dead cat bounce.

Dammit 25, you beat me to that comment by a nanosecond. I had to delete and type this instead, lol.

@Puddy: I agree with 25. There's still a lot of fear out there. I think that their may be some short covering and opportunistic purchasing happening now, but IMO we're just one more bad piece of news away from another panic.

The tariffs kick in at 12:01 am tonight. It should be interesting. I suspect that a lot of other nations are waiting for Trump to actually go through with it before they get serious about working out a compromise.

I think like a child with a temper tantrum both the panic sellers and the gaslighters have worn themselves out. We’ll see what happens next.

*^Worn themselves out temporarily

Dead cat bounce... that's like dustyj or wld4tatas trying to get an erection.

The market is up today and that is just as important as, well it's not any more important than the recent losses.

Wild swings and instability arent signs its getting better

^Nor are they signs that things are getting worse. thanks for playing.

^ Well, in all fairness to Icey (which I can't believe I'm saying lol), there is still almost 3 hours left in the trading day. The rally is already losing steam and the fear index is steadily rising as the day progresses.

My guess is that some people were hoping to hear something positive today, like Trump striking deals with some countries to lower tariffs. As the day plods along with no updates, people are increasingly realizing that it's very likely that we're going to wake up tomorrow morning with these tariffs in full effect. I expect us to be back in the red by market close and the after hours market to be a shit show, lol. We'll see if I'm right soon enough.

^ The real story will be where we are in october.

My point wasn't that we're out of the woods and Trump is vindicated. Far from it. It's that the dipshit libs here are calling the game in the middle of the first quarter.

Liberals are the ultimate cheaters and quitters. I have no doubt that if there is even one manly progressive male left, that they quit, went to bed, sobbed into their pillow that Houston won, and then found out Florida won and covered the spread.

I guess that cat don’t bounce, looks like the rally became a rout

^ S&P down 0.1%. Think I'll suck on my Mossberg 590, 00 buckshot.

"Think I'll suck on my Mossberg"

Prove it.

^^ Dont make a mess

^ ^^ Sorry, it's down 0.2% now. Too depressed to reach for mah 12-gauge.
Nina, I'll take any tips on suppressing the ol' gag reflex. Unlike the stock market, I don't have your degree of practice.

I'm loving all the lefty rags wailing and rending their clothes over this devastating (lulz) loss of 10%, disproportionately borne by the rich.

Or we've just got a bunch of drama queens and kings here with no perspective.

^This is my perspective: I am not retired and if I lose money I will work harder and save more. Friday it was 78 at Poquoy Brook and I birdied 16 and 17 for the first time ever in 33 years of playing there. Hell, I haven't been on either green in 2 in over 20 years, as they are super long from the tips for all players, not just us old fucks. We then went to a strip club for a few pops and dinner at the Great Wok was the best. Oh yeah, strip clubbing with the Wife is always awesome. So, the stock market? It has been up and it has been down, so up or down, who cares until it is time to cash out.
Before anyone criticizes me about a response unrelated to the subject matter: Wah, wah, wah the S&P is down almost a fifth of one-percent. We're doomed I tells ya, fucking doomed.

Not only did Trump reconfirm a 104% tariff on China starting tonight, but China responded by speculating on other potential retaliatory measures.

Expect this last 50 minutes to be a bumpy ride!

Trump is in a corner and China knows it, his own congress is fed up. China does not have elections, they can take a lot more pain than the US will put up with

^At some point even democrats will become Americans again and not a single person in this land will buy anything the reprehensible animals called the Chinese manufacture. If Trump was smart everyone from China would be deported immediately.

This is why it’s stupid to be a bully, Trump could have had most of the world with him if he would have been smart about this, he could have gone after China and the rest of these countries would have gone along and some might have even, changed their methods of doing business with us, but by provoking a war with all of these countries, no differentiation between friend and foe, he undermined his position and now we have to deal with the fallout.

What is about "retaliatory" tariffs is it that does not compute for libs? Leftist "academics" are saying that tariffs don't work. Why then was every other country using them except us?

This all ties back to the concept that the establishment - left and right, Republican, democrat, or Independent - is a cancer, and Trump is chemotherapy. No other POTUS had the will or grit to enact retaliatory tariffs because this short-term pain was the unavoidable result. However, it is necessary. COVID should have been the wake-up call the West needed to begin a rapid decoupling, disengagement, and estrangement from China. Trump remembers that from 2020, while everyone else seems to have forgotten. Europe has been screwing us over on defense and trade for years. Now, our foreign policy is to hold them accountable to meet their treaty obligations and be fair trade partners. People are sad because BMWs cost more? Hard change is needed when we have leaders with the will to make that change. Biden was an incompetent with a dozen bureaucratic chiefs protecting their little fiefdoms. Obama was a narcissist who wanted to cut the US down to be no more equal than a third world country. The story of weak men and wafflers in the Oval Office goes back to 1989. Trump is an outsider who has assembled an administration of pirates and nonconformists, knowing that he has only four years to make a change and begin a trajectory that will keep the democrat party in the minority and out of the White House for as long as it takes them to wash the radicals out of their party.

All of this is in our own best interests. Eat your vegetables, take your medicine, embrace the suck.

@gammanu95 -

"COVID should have been the wake-up call the West needed to begin a rapid decoupling, disengagement, and estrangement from China."
Surprised we didn't? Europe was too busy posturing how green they were, and ended up dependent on Russian natgas. We wanted our cheap iPhones and fast fashion too.

"Biden was an incompetent with a dozen bureaucratic chiefs protecting their little fiefdoms
Biden didn't think China was a threat but Dems played Weekend at Bernie's with him before anyone in the West knew what COVID was. Who knows what he believed; he didn't know what month it was.

"Obama was a narcissist who wanted to cut the US down to be no more equal than a third world country."
Obama was a narcissist who thought that his speeches could charm Richard Dawkins into joining Opus Dei. Thought Russia, China, Iran, and North Korea would become democracies. "More latitude after the election," lulz. There's your hard line against Russia. All of them got stronger under his watch.

The European continent is too busy amusing itself into a comfortable decline. Let us have our cushy social services, underspend on defense, and then have a panic attack when Putin--who we funded--gets aggressive.

But that said, Trump often diagnoses the problem correctly and applies the incorrect remedy. I don't care about punishing Europe, they're amusing themselves into irrelevance, and at the rate they're allowing in immigrants, they'll be Francistan, Germanistan, United Kingistans anyways. It's first and last about China. They're the threat that has to be brought into line. I understand we needed to put tariffs on some countries, not to get them to buy Chevies, but because China will route their stuff through them to avoid duties.

I hear they're going to invade Taiwan in 2027. That means we better not need their semi-conductors, their steel, or their pharmaceuticals by then. If we have to fluff Europe and Canada to get them lined up against China, it's worth it.

The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing.

What does Trump want from the EU? This isnt just about tariffs and trade, I read something saying he refused the EUs offer of zero for zero tariffs on industrial goods. Isnt the goal supposed to be zero for zero, free trade

Chinese economic strength subsidizes their aggressive militarism, which is a danger to US allies (Australia, Japan, Philippines, Taiwan). So it's necessary to hamstring the Chinese economy until they change that policy. Even if it causes some people in the US to lose money. The US should enact tariffs (or other trade regulations) that help industries that commit to create a large number of jobs that pay at least $60K/year. But it would seem to make sense to delay the start date, to prevent product shortages until new production facilities in the US are brought into operation. Trade policies should be passed with broad bipartisan support. That way, companies can invest in creating US jobs, without having to worry they'll get their ass handed to them by the results of the next election.

$60 k a year 75k after benefits, in mexico they made $12k. But it is not going raise prices. Sure I got it

^^ilb proves that libs do not understand economics.

If a hammer made in China costs $10.00 and a hammer made in Ohio by Americans costs $18.00, I buy the $18.00 hammer every time, without a second thought. Buy American made, fuck foreigners.

That burning you smell, is Donald Trump lighting fires with Tesla stock.

^ and?

^ It’s an American company ain’t it

"Nina, I'll take any tips on suppressing the ol' gag reflex. Unlike the stock market, I don't have your degree of practice."

Implying that I, a straight woman, know how to give a good blow job, is not an insult at all.

However the fact that you, a man, want tips on how to suppress your own gag reflex, is not something a straight man should be asking a woman for tips on.

Learn some better insults.

^ Context eludes you, now as ever.

Markets seem to like the news that Scott Besent is going to replace Navarro

S&P up 0.6%. The Lib Cope Squad is hyperventilating into paper bags right about now.

Market volatility isnt a sign things are getting better.

I woke up this morning in this post-tariff world and, to my surprise, there were no hints of apocalypse to be seen.

The sun was still shining. The birds were still chirping. There was even a new duck couple grazing in my back yard as I enjoyed my morning coffee on the back patio. If history repeats itself, I might once again have little ducklings hanging around my back yard in the upcoming Summer months.

All the schools are open like normal. So are the local businesses.

Heck, even the stock market seems to be settling down a bit, though the fear index is still very high and we'll likely see a lot of volatility in the coming weeks.

The funny thing is that Trump said he was going to do this, even during his campaign. We just didn't believe him (myself included). 😆

Well, the die is cast now. We an expect a lot of noise over the coming weeks, but I'm truly convinced now that he doesn't care about that. All we can do now is hope that he's successful.

@longb pardon me for challenging your right to low prices made possible by people making poverty level wages.

My client today was someone who looked like someone who would vote Democratic party line, but he voted for Trump, whom he said he hated. I asked why. He said: "Whether you like or hate what he's doing, he is doing exactly what he said he would and I voted for the one candidate thats says one thing on the campaign trail and then never does it once elected.

This just came out.
www.cnn.com

Thanks to all the libs who panic sold!

what did I say

www.yahoo.com

Like I said before, this is a game of brinksmanship.

These others countries have to understand he'll do it if they don't get serious about making reforms, including with the various non-tariff trade barriers. These things are going to be a tough pill for some of these other countries to swallow and will likely include legislation that will be unpopular with their domestic populations. The only way that Trump can achieve any real success in this is to make the alternative too unbearable to seriously consider.

^ the market spanked Donald J. Trump, and showed him who the real bosses are
LOL

^Interpret it however you want TwoBits, but his willingness to go even this far has brought 75 countries to the bargaining table.

Be honest, he folded. He really had no choice.

The progressive retards here are the type of people who took their life savings and on December 8, 1940 placed a win bet on Japan.

^ Gee Ricki Boi, dont be so butthurt you still got a chance to make a few bucks on Walmart

90 day pause on all tariffs except those against China. We all died and were resurrected.