Add this up for me

So… 1 and 2 are bs?

There's a lot of misinformation out there on illegal immigration. Both sides, plenty dumbass conservatives are guilty of it too. The nature of third world immigration is not going to help us economically, most of these folks are going to go on the doll the duration of their lifespans. There just not going to become what they become in these liberal fantasies; doctors, lawyers, scientists. Maybe some but not most.

Just use common sense, how do we become richer as a country by importing the world's poverty, wholesale? Think about it. There's no magic dirt. Also the cheap labour argument, look at Europe. They've been imported plenty from Islamic countries, this is a wildly different culture and it's rapidly changing for countries.

It's really all globalist propaganda. We are under attack. The country is under attack. When are we going to understand this? The inn is full. Work on the folks you have here. We have no need Venezuelan Gangbangers in our country. Haiti is an unbelievably violent place. The answer is no. We wish them well but we can't have the whole block living at our house. At some point we have to spine and be able to use the phrase "No"

^from an economic perspective, surely cheap labor makes sense, esp if we are to be more self reliant from a manufacturing and agriculture perspective?

As far as tariffs it's not the conservative viewpoint to be for tariffs at all but in this case Trump is using them to bully other countries into getting what he wants. That Mexican car plant that would kill Detroit, he's tariffing the shit out of that and they stopped building it.

Ok so #2 won’t happen. We’ll still buy silicon chips from abroad. Will #1 drive up inflation?

Trumper’s have such a hard on for illegal immigrants, personally I am happy to have them.There are way more criminals and dead beats born right here, ripping off the system. Give them a path to citizenship, gimme a few good Mexican joints in my neighborhood and More Cuban Strippers!!

1. Inflation may go up for a bit, but by then people will be clamoring for a restriction on welfare and subsidies so those who choose to work over starving will have jobs. The benefit will outweigh the cost because the cost of educating illegals and the costs they incur with free medical care are astronomical. They kill every school budget where they settle. What I always found kind of funny was the people who shout out human rights because we're all equal always seem to base their views on immigration on the idea that since they are illegal, we can screw them out of a living wage and make things cheaper for us. I am happy to pay a higher price for an end to this kind of thinking. 2. Tariffs might initially cause a rise in prices, but when the cost goes up it makes local goods more competitive and might bring back some manufacturing. I assume people are like me and want local businesses, so I have no trouble paying $44.95 for something at the hardware store over $39.95 at home depot. 3. Basic regulation is good. Regulation for the sake of power kills incentives. Maybe Trump's ideas work, maybe they don't. Whenever discussions like this arise all I can think of poor old Gerald Ford who put forth the idea that the collective power and belief of the people could impact the economy. His motto was "Whip Inflation Now"; he even had little "WIN" button made up. To say he was smashed by everyone over this would be an understatement because he was fucking crucified. Of course, some years later all of a sudden now comes the "Consumer Confidence Index" which is based on the collective power and belief of the public and their collective impact on the economy. So give Trump a chance and I apologize Gerry Ford, at the end of the day it was all of us who were stupid and not you.

Please don’t deport our immigrant strippers! At least not the hot ones.

I’m all for secure borders, but there needs to be a secret portal for strippers and sex workers.

I work in supply chain with old rust belt dirty manufacturing. Tier 1 and Tier 2 automotive suppliers. Not the glamorous consumer products like Apple. But the little secret you won’t hear from the media is a lot of manufacturing has already come back to the US post COVID

Suppliers got burned during COVID and hopefully learned from their past errors. You better not put all your eggs in one basket and single source from China. At least a small amount of secondary suppliers has come back to the US already.

And the real ironic part is that many of those smaller mom n pop machine shops making automotive parts employ 100% illegals. They’re small enough they generally fly under the radar of ICE

@dicksucker "Trumper’s have such a hard on for illegal immigrants, personally I am happy to have them."

Perhaps you haven't heard about the 1.7 MILLION "gotaways" that came here since old Joe moved into the White House. That's 1.7 MILLION bad actors. Every last one of them. How do we know they're all bad?

The Biden administration made it so easy to come here, you just walk across a shallow area of the Rio Grande and throw your hands up. You'll be transported to a safe place, given food and medical attention, and released into the country with only your promise to show up to court in a couple years. There is NO REASON why anyone would literally risk their life by entering through rugged, dangerous terrain, just to avoid detection, and then run from authorities, unless you're up to no good.

We talk about violent gangs from Venezuela as if they're the worst of the illegals coming here. Well guess what, they're fucking boy scouts compared to the trained, organized and well funded terrorists peppered in among the "gotaways".

"Never Forget" has become a patriotic slogan honoring those who perished on 9/11 and in its aftermath. Well, I promise you it will be forgotten about very quickly when the next attack on America makes 9/11 look like a pimple on an elephant's ass by comparison.

It took 19 men to pull off the 9/11 attacks. How many among the 1.7 MILLION have similar intentions? We don't know because they all "got away" and we have no idea who or where they are right now. But if it was only 1 out of every 10,000 that would be 170 of those jihad jerkoffs getting ready to fuck this country like it's never been fucked before.

@ Mrsorange: not terrorist’s dickbrain, regular old illegal immigrants, like my grandparents were. Give them a path to citizenship, deport them if they fuck up then get serious about controlling the border. Both parties have fucked this up for many , many years.

What are we debating here? The GOP won. Everything (a mere 7 more seats in the house). America selected our candidates overwhelmingly. We have the most aligned Justices on the Supreme Court. This is going to happen because we, the United States of America, voted for it to happen and there is a not a damned thing the democrat party can do to stop it. Just sit back, and let it happen guys. It will be over in four years. Unless, and this is where the libs really need to worry, Americans win so bigly that Vance gets elected for four more and four more after that and also win GOP aligned congressional houses. It can happen.

'What are we debating here?'

Yup, nobama said it himself years ago, 'elections have consequences' He enjoyed rubbing it in our faces, it's his and his minions second turn to get his face rubbed back in it!

'their' faces, EDIT BUTTON!

@theeosu I’m trying to understand why 1 and 2 are desirable when they seem (to an Econ simpleton like me) to be inflationary. So far we’ve mostly got “yeah, but immigrants are bad”.

^you certainly are a simpleton. Kicking out illegals saves money in welfare, health care, the justice system, law enforcement, housing programs, education, border enforcement, drug enforcement and on and on. Tariffs keep jobs in America with good wages and benefits.

No one who pays $500 for a condom hand job should debate economics. Seriously. And there's nothing to debate. We have a Congress which will enact Trump's ideas into legislation for him to sign, and an honest Supreme Court which will not unlawfully interfere by legislating from the bench.

@drew - to add to your list, the tax cuts will also be inflationary.

Trump never had a real plan to bring down inflation, it was all hype and bullshit. He said whatever would help him win, even absurd lines like "inflation will vanish completely." In fact the inflation rate is now down at 2.4%. Trump may or may not be able to get it lower, but most of the work bringing it down has already happened under Biden.

Well drew, I'm surprised that you specifically asked me although gamm basically answered your questions before I returned here. The illegals are definitely taking up resources that should be applied elsewhere for the benefit of actual Americans. I'm not an economist but I do know how inflation has affected my life the past 4 years. Higher grocery prices, property taxes, insurance costs, utility bills, gasoline, appliance costs, clothing, even fast food prices, etc etc etc. I believe some of those costs can be traced back to covid/supply chain issues which has been used as an excuse to jack prices up but although covid is still around it's mainly in the rearview mirror now yet grocery prices are still high, my property taxes and insurance costs went up a higher percentage than ever this year for no apparent reasons so regardless of what others say inflation is still affecting me and I'm sure most everyone else.

I'm sure some of those illegals are decent hard working people but I have no idea what percentage. I'm also sure many of them are criminals, gang members, chinese agents, future terrorists, etc so catching and getting as many of them out as possible is a good thing. Sure we won't get them all but to use a frequently used liberal talking point if it only saves one life it's worth it. Now realistically I think catching and jailing or deporting as many of the really bad people from the millions that came in will absolutely save more than one life, it will save many lives in the long run and also help our economy get stronger as they won't be getting a free ride on our money. Will we catch them all, no way. Will decent illegals get caught up in the deportations? Yes but the fact is they broke laws too and even though they're lower on the scale they can be considered collateral damage in the quest to eliminate the real bad ones.

Regarding tariffs, it's been mentioned that it will be used as a negotiation tactic. How or where that ends up remains to be seen.

Inflation was mainly driven by factors related to the pandemic, other than government spending. As we always say, the President gets the blame or credit for what happens under their watch.

'Trump never had a real plan to bring down inflation, it was all hype and bullshit. He said whatever would help him win'

You could substitute harris' name for that and seeing that she's had 4 years to actually do something but didn't it would ring truer! You're still a delusional leftist shill wild4testes, #DIPSHIT!

Hey guys, I'm only here for the dick pics.

Lol, pm wild4testes, maybe you can work out a trade, he'd like some ball pics.

I'd trade a free blowjob for him if I can film it. Ohhhhh.... mmmmm.... yeah. I could watch it over and over. I'm stepping up from dick pics to dick vids. Yummy!

So we’re just down to immigrants bad, and a fake cjk account offering fellatio. Also Gamma said something but I muted him and icey for being retards.

What are you guys gonna do when they kick out every immigrant and we still have gangs, drugs, unemployment, dog eaters, and icey? Not to mention inflation?

I'll try and answer. Illegal immigration is a net financial loss for the country since they use more services than they pay in direct and indirect taxes although in certain industries the prices will certainly rise. However, as we saw last time the tightening labor market will bring in those not currently in it. This reduces price pressure and removes people from the welfare state. It's a net win, albeit with some significant variations by sector. Tariffs are iffy, but as mentioned Trump uses them as a bargaining chip. They are also very valuable in efforts to protect militarily vital supply chains. The net result is higher prices, but there is a reasonable argument for it. Regulation is the big one. Biden added a 1.7 trillion regulatory burden during the past four years. Removing just those is a huge jump in efficiency. A lot of those savings will be captured by the corporations, but a significant amount will reach us. In short, #1 mild to moderately deflationary, 2 inflationary, 3 strongly deflationary. Add to that higher domestic energy production and prices drop.

Gamma highlighted that you brag about paying $650 for CBJ's. He has a point that you lack an understanding of economics. tuscl.net

^sounds plausible.

Illegal immigrants typically work low wage jobs. As you say, removing this labor tightens the market, driving up wages and attracting new workers. Doesn’t this raise costs? Im thinking specifically on agriculture, meat packing, home building and etc traditional illegal immigrant jobs.

How is #1 deflationary if it raises the cost of these goods?

@sinclair: reinforcing my decision to mute gamma. In the 2 years since I wrote that article he’s probably mentioned it 50 times. Everybody including me thinks I paid too much for a single cbj in 2023, but he really likes to bring it up. Like he’s not bright enough to think of a new dis, or maybe he’s broke enough that the idea of letting $650 go gives him hives. It’s good to know that I’m not missing any intellectual renaissance on gammas part.

We should have targeted tariffs to compel other countries to lower their tariffs on American products. China has high tariffs on every American product that excludes U.S. from their market. Also, products produced by slave labor or are priced for sale at a loss to undermine American competition (financed by the foreign government) should have targeted tariffs. It’s not that complicated.

Do you think Drew wants us to believe he has me on ignore? He is only mentioning it in every comment. Methinks the lady doth protest too much. In actuality, it is a cuck ploy to try and make me stop tearing down his terrible leftist logic and posting common sense and truth into his discussions.

He keeps arguing that illegal aliens are good because they work cheap. Does that mean that we should stop prosecuting car thiefs because they chop and resell the vehicles at less than retail cost? Should illegal fences for all counterfeit and stolen goods be decriminalized because cheap things are deflationary? This is the insane nonsense logic of the left that criminals are good, laws are bad, and anyone less well of than you should be entitled to what you have. That is the argument that has put Trump in the White House twice! Yet, he repeats the same argument over and over again without acknowledging the facts and rationale given to him that debunk that argument. That failed for the left in their attacks on Trump, but he thinks he can make it work on TUSCL. He is in complete denial.

Anyone coming here illegally should be treated so badly that if the death penalty were an option, they'd choose it voluntarily.

That's a little too red and bloody even for me. We are not North Korea. We still need to be better. However, removing all benefits for illegals and swift deportations are the surest method. Why would you risk your life or give your life's savings to a cartel if you knew even an unaccompanied 6-month old would be swiftly sent back to south of the Darien Gap?

@stud: as you point out, reciprocity could be seen as fair, useful, or both. However the question is about inflation. Do you think tariffs raise or lower inflation?

^muted comment from retard patrol.

@gums

No dummy, he thinks you’re an intelligent idiot. Wait, that’s what I think.

I don’t mute anybody….because it’s all entertaining to hear ALL you clowns…..regardless of whether I agree or not.

☀️ $ 🚦 I Saw/Read That Tariffs Will Keep American Jobs Here In Da' U.S. By Forcing Our Support On Our Products & Goods, Instead Of Just Buying The Overseas Stuff Because Our Goods/Products Will Be Cheaper Since It Won't Have The Tariff Markup. The Kick Out Of illegals Is Because It's Costing Us Too Much $Money To Keep Them Here, & The More We Keep Them, Others Will Keep Trying Ta' Come & Take Advantage Of Our System. I Wanna Know Views & Solutions On Boarder Control & The Wall Protection.

SL777: the conventional wisdom here is that raising tariffs will force out cheap foreign goods, making locally produced versions profitable, thus encouraging local jobs. In a sense this is basic Econ, and is logically sound. Imagine if the rest of the world suddenly turned to ash, and everything we wanted to eat or drive or cook with or wear had to be made here. We’d find a way to do it. Eventually.

But it would take time, since we don’t have workers, factories, or supply chains sitting idle waiting to start up the moment our trading partners disappear. There would be years of scarcity while we figured out how to grow or build what we just buy today.

An example is computer chips. These are mostly made overseas. We need them, and without them we can’t make many items that are built here: computers, cars, stoves, etc. building a chip plant takes years and so does training workers.

So, in the meantime: no chips and no products that require chips. This means high prices and less jobs for chip dependent supply chains.

So yes, but also no, because in four years people will be pissed and will vote out the government that made the tarrifs.

I get it... it's positional bargaining BS and not something to be too worried about. I have 2 issues with that view:

1. My general view is that by being trading partners we build interdependency and begin to need one another, which is safer than putting countries in the "enemy" category. Even if they do become enemies, the ability to withhold that trade (sanctions) is a bargaining chip. If trade shuts down, the ties are gone and we run shorter on sanctions.

2. There is a tendency with the GOP and with Trump in general for him to say something edgy, and then moments later the conservatives rush in with "you can't take this literally, what he really means is obviously... xyz". I think relatively few people know what he's really thinking. This comes across as either apologist or as you say rationalizing, and its hardly accurate. It reminds me of some of the really harsh bits of the old testament, where the story has to be taken as allegory because it's either too weird or too cruel to be true.

We really need to invent AI dishwashers and lawn care equipment that can work by itself so we don’t need to import this cheap labor that has to be housed and fed.

He’s not gonna be able to deport a fraction of the number of illegal immigrants, despite his big promises, first of all his own country clubs and hotels would close up if that actually happened. Secondly how many of his original promises has he kept ? Mexico hasn’t paid for the wall, he hasn’t released his taxes, if he’s serious about putting the kind of tariffs he’s talking about he’ll bankrupt us. I don’t believe he’s going to be able to keep his promises, fortunately, and guess what, he knows it too. Regardless we need him to be successful our country depends on it.

^yep

Twentyfive does not know what he is talking about. He never has. It is beyond idiotic to think that a President of the United States would knowingly employ illegal aliens. Just incredibly stupid to claim otherwise. Do you think that if Trump's businesses didn't have I-9s and e-verifies for every employee it would not be plastered over every headline for months? Even Hannity and Tucker would be calling for his impeachment, and rightfully so.

The movement for mass deportation has the broadest bipartisan support amongst voters of any initiative since 9/11's invasion of Afghanistan. Everyone knows it has made pir country poorer, dirtier, and less safe. From New York to Chicago to LA, they want the illegals out and the public services and welfare nets returned to America's voting class. It will happen because it must happen.

^ axios.com

Want more just check the internet a simple search comes up with 67K results in about two seconds, or do you just like rowing that River in Egypt

Rick: that’s just not true.

pewresearch.org

Regarding #1 it depends… firstly the minimum wage laws aren’t supposed to exist.. as far as illegal immigrants it depends whether you can still access their labor overseas. Like how apple and nike use chinese slave labor.

Regarding number 2 that is correct.. its called a protectionist economic policy. Tariffs arent the only form of this, regulations and licensing laws, and price controls are also similar. They are bad economically because youre improperly using government power to inflate wages more than they should be. If you ban all non American labor… obviously it will help American labor workers who will get more money… but its still a net negative on society as a whole who are now paying higher prices just so a small segment of society (labor workers) can earn more money. It goes against free market principles to have laws like that in place. For an easy analogy you can consider how a latina immigrant woman may be willing to do all kinds of things for $200, while an american woman may want $500 for the same. Now imagine if they banned all immigrant women.. it would mean the American women can charge a lot more.

I have an econ degree and started my career as an economist and i was writing something and it was a long giant mess. (Not so) Short answer:

1. Kicking out illegals won't necessarily drive up prices.

• a) as mentioned up thread the cost of supporting illegals has to be factored in;
• b) undocumented worker wages aren't necessarily cheaper than regular wage, often the savings comes from not doing paperwork and not giving benefits
• c) if illegals are hired in a commoditized industry, firms will be hard pressed to pass on costs to consumers; firms can write off many of these costs to offset the often slight increase in documented workers
• d) a thought experiment: when there was much less immigration during the Trump years, were prices higher or lower than now? If there is so much illegal immigration driving down wages/costs, shouldn't prices be cheaper now? If Biden/Harris is to blame for inflation (and rightly so), then recognize that sound fiscal policy can also lower costs (i.e. strong energy policy).

Tariffs: most of the sound economic policy, especially from Nobel prize wining faculty, tends to disfavor tariffs -- but then again, as my favorite econ professor says, economists have accurately predicted 9 of the last 5 recessions. Tariffs are a sound political/economic policy for any nation, but studying their effect is going to always be a backward looking process. It's also a game of whack-a-mole. Tariffs in one industry don't behave or predict the same another. A 1% change could have a deleterious effect, while 25% could have no effect. Tariffs are also a game of chicken, being a free market economy and one of the biggest markets gives the USA a distinct advantage. Personally, I think Trump had better leverage in 2020 then he does now. Economic indicators still see the rest of the world at a slow recovery, particularly slow in growth and still hampered by inflation. This could help Trump execute favorable trade agreements. Personally, I would like to see a time where government and services are funded by tariffs and sales tax and no more personal income tax.

@chief: this is great! Thanks.

Wrt 1d, immigration was down but immigrants were not. That is, border crossings were lower but a large base of immigrants were here doing this work.

More broadly it’s not so much a question of whether or not migrants are taking jobs from Americans who are waiting in the wings to take them over, the premise is that they are doing jobs Americans won’t or can’t do. If there was a ready made workforce waiting to replace them, then there wouldn’t be an impact on wages or costs, right? But there’s not a body of Americans waiting to do chicken butchery, strawberry picking etc. Given a labor shortage driven wage hike , some Americans might jump in. But that’s driving up costs, right?

Fuck Donald Trump.

youtu.be

With that said, I hope the markets go on a crazy bull run like they did in the 90's and all investors make a lot of money.

^ haha, liberal tears

@drew

I still follow some of the economic indicators, but the idea immigrants are doing the work that americans won't do is somewhat true, depending on how you look at it.

From my own personal experience: Migrant picking (fruit, vegetables) is somewhere we actually need migrant visas and this keeps costs low.

When you get into nannies, housekeeping, landscaping, car washes, day laborer, pre-covid, there wasn't much savings in using migrant labor. Giving free money during covid made wages sticky (but it seems like people are going back to work) and workers were demanding all crazy sorts of things like 100% remote. No one talks about it, but this led to a downturn of worker productivity.

The real work that americans won't do, e.g. see Dirty Jobs type of jobs, can only be done if you have certifications, pass trade/union certification, pass federal checks (e.g. working in a chicken processing plant) or own your business which requires capital.

In the short term, i think conditions, especially inflation, are going to drive up wages. The inflation caused by the poorly named Inflation Reduction Act is baked in. My firm just had an update on the market and the quants are saying growth is promising where in the past it has been flat (but they also predicted a recession, which they were sort of right). Given the higher price of everything, firms are going to have to pay more for wages. But, with higher growth and with e.g. my aforementioned increase in energy policy, this will drive down costs so that $7 butter and $4 gas won't seem too terrible (but would suck if you're retired on a fixed income).

TLDR - inflation is what driving up costs, as wages grow to match inflation, this will ease the costs of firms producing, and efficiency and lower costs will make firms lower price to be more competitive.

^ the way I see it, the worst inflation is behind us, the problem now is the inflated costs will not return to where they were previously, for that to happen we would need deflation, which would make the problematic economy, we just struggled through, seem like a walk in the park by comparison.

Fentanyl Floyd: Gold casket

Laken Riley: Closed casket

@chief that is some righteous shit. Always good to read something from an informed source. I will digest and come back.

@PT Growing wages will help, but there are a large group of retirees that are finished with work, for numerous reasons, that depend on S.S. and other fixed income sources that have no way to grow their income, to meet the increased costs on necessities, that is probably the biggest reason Trump won this election. BTW The stock rally of the past few days, welcome as it is, is not a Trump Bump, more likely a sigh of relief from a market, glad that we won't have to deal with same level of chaos as 2024.

^ as 2020

1. Appoint a sex trafficker as AG

2. Appoint a weekend Faux anchor as SOD

3. Invade Poland

^sounds about right.

1. Make libs cry like bitches.
2. Refer back to rule 1

Elections have consequences. Man up and deal with it. Resolve to run real candidates instead of two leftie loons in 2028.

^ Who’s not coping?

@25 —>“Growing wages will help, but there are a large group of retirees that are finished with work, for numerous reasons, that depend on S.S. and other fixed income sources that have no way to grow their income, to meet the increased costs on necessities, that is probably the biggest reason Trump won this election”

I thought the 65+ crowd wasn’t as enthused about Trump this time around? Or do you believe what is circulating inaccurate? (Not a rhetorical question, mainstream media’s polls seem to have their own sampling challenges sometimes)

cnn.com

((There is no commentary from me on anything related to inflation/wages. I only occasionally peruse the Journal of Economic Perspectives(great content, I recommend to anyone) understand my own limitations with macroeconomics, and have no interest in regurgitating talking points at people.))

@chief to center this a bit: the question is will his immigration and tariff proposals drive up inflation, and I think you giving that a caveated “yes”?

On the subject of immigrants again, I think that money abhors a vacuum. If there were no jobs for illegals, they wouldn’t be here in general. Some must see US benefits as a “job”, but I doubt that’s the entire illegal population.

Your point about visas for agriculture workers is a good one, but that system is not in place, and if congress’ tone on immigration stays the same or goes (almost certainly) right wing, there will be less legal paths for immigration, not more.

I suppose that would be a neat trick: trump boots the illegals, then welcomes them back with easy to get work visas.

@nicespice I don’t know the answer to that question, but I’m a member of that 65+ crowd and have many friends who are as well, in my circle very few admitted voting for trump, I know I certainly didn’t. I think the msm has a habit of sensationalizing everything to attract eyeballs and increase advertising revenue, and most of us block the poll takers on our phones so, unless we’re actively promoting a particular view, they don’t really get the full story.

There wont be cheap labor if you raise the minimum wage unless you mean cheap and illegal labor. The third world countries dont even pay $7 an hour , even that is far beyond what they pay, so in a lot or cases its better to produce stuff overseas

Puddy i dont follow, why crack down on employers who hire illegals? If you and others can hire illegals as dancers or extras services and escorts, i see no moral issue with an employer also hiring them for other work. The whole point of the cheaper labor is being able to hire them for less than the minimum wage.

Good for all you. I don’t have the energy to explain why illegal immigration is bad. The Democrats just thought everyone who didn’t live on a border state and didn’t care, until they saw the polling and were suddenly against open borders and illegal immigration.

Illegal immigration is only bad if you believe that America used to be a great place and is now on the road to shithole country. Any of you ever wonder why all the areas which had a head start on civilization, a huge head start, ended up being all the areas that failed? I notice free agency started in the NFL. My guess is they will pay the studs and ignore those who cannot contribute, the exact opposite of the progressive view of immigration, where the studs have to jump through hoops and the losers win the $$$ lottery.

@DC You’re getting your answers in real time from the market. Trump is playing with OPM as usual.

@DC You’re getting your answers in real time straight from the horses mouth