Add this up for me
drewcareypnw
not the real drew carey, but I play him at strip clubs...
So Trumps ideas are:
1. Kick out illegals
2. Set tariffs
3. De-regulate
Seriously now, I only studied Econ in MBA school, so my knowledge is survey course level. I want to understand how this works out.
Don’t 1 and 2 drive up inflation? Cost of labor and cost of goods go up… and? Unless he thinks American labor and industry will come back to life on 3 and fill the gap? That sounds like a period of painful austerity.
Come on armchair economists and lap dance experts, I want to know.
Also, fuck you Icey, just because it’s Friday and I’m in a good mood.
1. Kick out illegals
2. Set tariffs
3. De-regulate
Seriously now, I only studied Econ in MBA school, so my knowledge is survey course level. I want to understand how this works out.
Don’t 1 and 2 drive up inflation? Cost of labor and cost of goods go up… and? Unless he thinks American labor and industry will come back to life on 3 and fill the gap? That sounds like a period of painful austerity.
Come on armchair economists and lap dance experts, I want to know.
Also, fuck you Icey, just because it’s Friday and I’m in a good mood.
84 comments
Deporting 11 million illegals isn't logistically feasible. Would be better to just crack down on any employer who hires them. No benefits for anyone who doesn't come in the right way. We could implement a guest worker program (which i recall Trump talked about in his first term) to fill labor needs legally, without letting in more Tren de Aragua and Middle Eastern/ Central Asian terrorists like we are now.
Tariffs are the initial salvo in a negotiation. Trump talked much the same way in a first term. He bluffs and it's an effective negotiating tactic because liberals and other nations take his every utterance as authoritative.
This sounds good to me. I know the left would send Hamas $5 trillion without question if they said they were going to use it to fight climate change, but not doing that is deflationary.
It's not just inflation on its own it's inflation vs wages. If prices go up 20% but wages go up 25%, give me that any day.
Just use common sense, how do we become richer as a country by importing the world's poverty, wholesale? Think about it. There's no magic dirt. Also the cheap labour argument, look at Europe. They've been imported plenty from Islamic countries, this is a wildly different culture and it's rapidly changing for countries.
@Muddy - Well said, on that and importing a different culture. They have Islamists pushing for sharia law, and European progressives, who are more interested in showing how enlightened and worldly and free of religious backwardness they are, either don't understand the threat or actively seek their own destruction. It's the lighter version of Queers for Palestine.
It seems like in small numbers, Muslims are great citizens. In America most stay Muslim but acculturate and understand you have to leave the old country behind. But in Europe or places where they don't demand assimilation, they want to impose the reactionary values of the place they left on everyone else. God bless America!
Law and order are like air, you take it for granted, but if you are deprived of it, you'll do anything to get it.
Whenever discussions like this arise all I can think of poor old Gerald Ford who put forth the idea that the collective power and belief of the people could impact the economy. His motto was "Whip Inflation Now"; he even had little "WIN" button made up. To say he was smashed by everyone over this would be an understatement because he was fucking crucified. Of course, some years later all of a sudden now comes the "Consumer Confidence Index" which is based on the collective power and belief of the public and their collective impact on the economy. So give Trump a chance and I apologize Gerry Ford, at the end of the day it was all of us who were stupid and not you.
Suppliers got burned during COVID and hopefully learned from their past errors. You better not put all your eggs in one basket and single source from China. At least a small amount of secondary suppliers has come back to the US already.
And the real ironic part is that many of those smaller mom n pop machine shops making automotive parts employ 100% illegals. They’re small enough they generally fly under the radar of ICE
Perhaps you haven't heard about the 1.7 MILLION "gotaways" that came here since old Joe moved into the White House. That's 1.7 MILLION bad actors. Every last one of them. How do we know they're all bad?
The Biden administration made it so easy to come here, you just walk across a shallow area of the Rio Grande and throw your hands up. You'll be transported to a safe place, given food and medical attention, and released into the country with only your promise to show up to court in a couple years. There is NO REASON why anyone would literally risk their life by entering through rugged, dangerous terrain, just to avoid detection, and then run from authorities, unless you're up to no good.
We talk about violent gangs from Venezuela as if they're the worst of the illegals coming here. Well guess what, they're fucking boy scouts compared to the trained, organized and well funded terrorists peppered in among the "gotaways".
"Never Forget" has become a patriotic slogan honoring those who perished on 9/11 and in its aftermath. Well, I promise you it will be forgotten about very quickly when the next attack on America makes 9/11 look like a pimple on an elephant's ass by comparison.
It took 19 men to pull off the 9/11 attacks. How many among the 1.7 MILLION have similar intentions? We don't know because they all "got away" and we have no idea who or where they are right now. But if it was only 1 out of every 10,000 that would be 170 of those jihad jerkoffs getting ready to fuck this country like it's never been fucked before.
Yup, nobama said it himself years ago, 'elections have consequences'
He enjoyed rubbing it in our faces, it's his and his minions second turn to get his face rubbed back in it!
No one who pays $500 for a condom hand job should debate economics. Seriously. And there's nothing to debate. We have a Congress which will enact Trump's ideas into legislation for him to sign, and an honest Supreme Court which will not unlawfully interfere by legislating from the bench.
Trump never had a real plan to bring down inflation, it was all hype and bullshit. He said whatever would help him win, even absurd lines like "inflation will vanish completely." In fact the inflation rate is now down at 2.4%. Trump may or may not be able to get it lower, but most of the work bringing it down has already happened under Biden.
In other words, Biden put out "most of" the fire he created. Rather, the fed did by jacking up rates, putting companies out of business and making loans unaffordable.
House is still ashes, though.
The illegals are definitely taking up resources that should be applied elsewhere for the benefit of actual Americans. I'm not an economist but I do know how inflation has affected my life the past 4 years. Higher grocery prices, property taxes, insurance costs, utility bills, gasoline, appliance costs, clothing, even fast food prices, etc etc etc.
I believe some of those costs can be traced back to covid/supply chain issues which has been used as an excuse to jack prices up but although covid is still around it's mainly in the rearview mirror now yet grocery prices are still high, my property taxes and insurance costs went up a higher percentage than ever this year for no apparent reasons so regardless of what others say inflation is still affecting me and I'm sure most everyone else.
I'm sure some of those illegals are decent hard working people but I have no idea what percentage. I'm also sure many of them are criminals, gang members, chinese agents, future terrorists, etc so catching and getting as many of them out as possible is a good thing.
Sure we won't get them all but to use a frequently used liberal talking point if it only saves one life it's worth it.
Now realistically I think catching and jailing or deporting as many of the really bad people from the millions that came in will absolutely save more than one life, it will save many lives in the long run and also help our economy get stronger as they won't be getting a free ride on our money.
Will we catch them all, no way. Will decent illegals get caught up in the deportations? Yes but the fact is they broke laws too and even though they're lower on the scale they can be considered collateral damage in the quest to eliminate the real bad ones.
Regarding tariffs, it's been mentioned that it will be used as a negotiation tactic. How or where that ends up remains to be seen.
You could substitute harris' name for that and seeing that she's had 4 years to actually do something but didn't it would ring truer!
You're still a delusional leftist shill wild4testes, #DIPSHIT!
Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? The spending and failure to resolve the supply chain crisis (Buttigieg was too busy talking about racist highways and taking 2 months off to adopt a kid) was Biden's doing, too. With most of the spending being green nonsense. Dems would give $5 trillion to Hamas, no questions asked, if they said they were using it to fight climate change.
What are you guys gonna do when they kick out every immigrant and we still have gangs, drugs, unemployment, dog eaters, and icey? Not to mention inflation?
Illegal immigration is a net financial loss for the country since they use more services than they pay in direct and indirect taxes although in certain industries the prices will certainly rise. However, as we saw last time the tightening labor market will bring in those not currently in it. This reduces price pressure and removes people from the welfare state. It's a net win, albeit with some significant variations by sector.
Tariffs are iffy, but as mentioned Trump uses them as a bargaining chip. They are also very valuable in efforts to protect militarily vital supply chains. The net result is higher prices, but there is a reasonable argument for it.
Regulation is the big one. Biden added a 1.7 trillion regulatory burden during the past four years. Removing just those is a huge jump in efficiency. A lot of those savings will be captured by the corporations, but a significant amount will reach us.
In short, #1 mild to moderately deflationary, 2 inflationary, 3 strongly deflationary.
Add to that higher domestic energy production and prices drop.
https://tuscl.net/article/58943
Illegal immigrants typically work low wage jobs. As you say, removing this labor tightens the market, driving up wages and attracting new workers. Doesn’t this raise costs? Im thinking specifically on agriculture, meat packing, home building and etc traditional illegal immigrant jobs.
How is #1 deflationary if it raises the cost of these goods?
Also, products produced by slave labor or are priced for sale at a loss to undermine American competition (financed by the foreign government) should have targeted tariffs. It’s not that complicated.
He keeps arguing that illegal aliens are good because they work cheap. Does that mean that we should stop prosecuting car thiefs because they chop and resell the vehicles at less than retail cost? Should illegal fences for all counterfeit and stolen goods be decriminalized because cheap things are deflationary? This is the insane nonsense logic of the left that criminals are good, laws are bad, and anyone less well of than you should be entitled to what you have. That is the argument that has put Trump in the White House twice! Yet, he repeats the same argument over and over again without acknowledging the facts and rationale given to him that debunk that argument. That failed for the left in their attacks on Trump, but he thinks he can make it work on TUSCL. He is in complete denial.
Dont engage them. It just gives them a soap box for their tinfoil hat shit
No dummy, he thinks you’re an intelligent idiot. Wait, that’s what I think.
I don’t mute anybody….because it’s all entertaining to hear ALL you clowns…..regardless of whether I agree or not.
The Kick Out Of illegals Is Because It's Costing Us Too Much $Money To Keep Them Here, & The More We Keep Them, Others Will Keep Trying Ta' Come & Take Advantage Of Our System.
I Wanna Know Views & Solutions On Boarder Control & The Wall Protection.
But it would take time, since we don’t have workers, factories, or supply chains sitting idle waiting to start up the moment our trading partners disappear. There would be years of scarcity while we figured out how to grow or build what we just buy today.
An example is computer chips. These are mostly made overseas. We need them, and without them we can’t make many items that are built here: computers, cars, stoves, etc. building a chip plant takes years and so does training workers.
So, in the meantime: no chips and no products that require chips. This means high prices and less jobs for chip dependent supply chains.
So yes, but also no, because in four years people will be pissed and will vote out the government that made the tarrifs.
It will take time to build things back up, yes, but it's a small price compared to being beholden to an enemy.
1. My general view is that by being trading partners we build interdependency and begin to need one another, which is safer than putting countries in the "enemy" category. Even if they *do* become enemies, the ability to withhold that trade (sanctions) is a bargaining chip. If trade shuts down, the ties are gone and we run shorter on sanctions.
2. There is a tendency with the GOP and with Trump in general for him to say something edgy, and then moments later the conservatives rush in with "you can't take this literally, what he *really* means is obviously... xyz". I think relatively few people know what he's really thinking. This comes across as either apologist or as you say rationalizing, and its hardly accurate. It reminds me of some of the really harsh bits of the old testament, where the story has to be taken as allegory because it's either too weird or too cruel to be true.
I see where you're coming from on his bombastic statements but this is an established, lifelong pattern. He isn't an ideologue--he keeps his broader principles but flexes on the "how." That's part of why Trump Fear didn't sell to swing voters this year, because he did this for 4 years and catastrophe didn't happen.
I dont believe much will get done to help people. But damage control is possible.
Regardless we need him to be successful our country depends on it.
The movement for mass deportation has the broadest bipartisan support amongst voters of any initiative since 9/11's invasion of Afghanistan. Everyone knows it has made pir country poorer, dirtier, and less safe. From New York to Chicago to LA, they want the illegals out and the public services and welfare nets returned to America's voting class. It will happen because it must happen.
Want more just check the internet a simple search comes up with 67K results in about two seconds, or do you just like rowing that River in Egypt
https://www.pewresearch.org/race-and-eth…
Regarding number 2 that is correct.. its called a protectionist economic policy. Tariffs arent the only form of this, regulations and licensing laws, and price controls are also similar. They are bad economically because youre improperly using government power to inflate wages more than they should be. If you ban all non American labor… obviously it will help American labor workers who will get more money… but its still a net negative on society as a whole who are now paying higher prices just so a small segment of society (labor workers) can earn more money. It goes against free market principles to have laws like that in place. For an easy analogy you can consider how a latina immigrant woman may be willing to do all kinds of things for $200, while an american woman may want $500 for the same. Now imagine if they banned all immigrant women.. it would mean the American women can charge a lot more.
1) Kicking out illegals won't necessarily drive up prices.
- a) as mentioned up thread the cost of supporting illegals has to be factored in;
- b) undocumented worker wages aren't necessarily cheaper than regular wage, often the savings comes from not doing paperwork and not giving benefits
- c) if illegals are hired in a commoditized industry, firms will be hard pressed to pass on costs to consumers; firms can write off many of these costs to offset the often slight increase in documented workers
- d) a thought experiment: when there was much less immigration during the Trump years, were prices higher or lower than now? If there is so much illegal immigration driving down wages/costs, shouldn't prices be cheaper now? If Biden/Harris is to blame for inflation (and rightly so), then recognize that sound fiscal policy can also lower costs (i.e. strong energy policy).
Tariffs: most of the sound economic policy, especially from Nobel prize wining faculty, tends to disfavor tariffs -- but then again, as my favorite econ professor says, economists have accurately predicted 9 of the last 5 recessions. Tariffs are a sound political/economic policy for any nation, but studying their effect is going to always be a backward looking process. It's also a game of whack-a-mole. Tariffs in one industry don't behave or predict the same another. A 1% change could have a deleterious effect, while 25% could have no effect. Tariffs are also a game of chicken, being a free market economy and one of the biggest markets gives the USA a distinct advantage. Personally, I think Trump had better leverage in 2020 then he does now. Economic indicators still see the rest of the world at a slow recovery, particularly slow in growth and still hampered by inflation. This could help Trump execute favorable trade agreements. Personally, I would like to see a time where government and services are funded by tariffs and sales tax and no more personal income tax.
Wrt 1d, immigration was down but immigrants were not. That is, border crossings were lower but a large base of immigrants were here doing this work.
More broadly it’s not so much a question of whether or not migrants are taking jobs from Americans who are waiting in the wings to take them over, the premise is that they are doing jobs Americans won’t or can’t do. If there was a ready made workforce waiting to replace them, then there wouldn’t be an impact on wages or costs, right? But there’s not a body of Americans waiting to do chicken butchery, strawberry picking etc. Given a labor shortage driven wage hike , some Americans might jump in. But that’s driving up costs, right?
https://youtu.be/WkZ5e94QnWk?feature=sha…
With that said, I hope the markets go on a crazy bull run like they did in the 90's and all investors make a lot of money.
I still follow some of the economic indicators, but the idea immigrants are doing the work that americans won't do is somewhat true, depending on how you look at it.
From my own personal experience:
Migrant picking (fruit, vegetables) is somewhere we actually need migrant visas and this keeps costs low.
When you get into nannies, housekeeping, landscaping, car washes, day laborer, pre-covid, there wasn't much savings in using migrant labor. Giving free money during covid made wages sticky (but it seems like people are going back to work) and workers were demanding all crazy sorts of things like 100% remote. No one talks about it, but this led to a downturn of worker productivity.
The real work that americans won't do, e.g. see Dirty Jobs type of jobs, can only be done if you have certifications, pass trade/union certification, pass federal checks (e.g. working in a chicken processing plant) or own your business which requires capital.
In the short term, i think conditions, especially inflation, are going to drive up wages. The inflation caused by the poorly named Inflation Reduction Act is baked in. My firm just had an update on the market and the quants are saying growth is promising where in the past it has been flat (but they also predicted a recession, which they were sort of right). Given the higher price of everything, firms are going to have to pay more for wages. But, with higher growth and with e.g. my aforementioned increase in energy policy, this will drive down costs so that $7 butter and $4 gas won't seem too terrible (but would suck if you're retired on a fixed income).
TLDR - inflation is what driving up costs, as wages grow to match inflation, this will ease the costs of firms producing, and efficiency and lower costs will make firms lower price to be more competitive.
Voters don't see unemployment. 5% vs 10% unemployment is one friend.
Most voters don't see GDP and half of America doesn't see the stock market.
If wages are growing faster than inflation, Americans will be happy.
Laken Riley: Closed casket
Growing wages will help, but there are a large group of retirees that are finished with work, for numerous reasons, that depend on S.S. and other fixed income sources that have no way to grow their income, to meet the increased costs on necessities, that is probably the biggest reason Trump won this election.
BTW The stock rally of the past few days, welcome as it is, is not a Trump Bump, more likely a sigh of relief from a market, glad that we won't have to deal with same level of chaos as 2024.
5. Appoint a weekend Faux anchor as SOD
6. Invade Poland
2. Refer back to rule 1
Elections have consequences. Man up and deal with it. Resolve to run real candidates instead of two leftie loons in 2028.
I thought the 65+ crowd wasn’t as enthused about Trump this time around? Or do you believe what is circulating inaccurate? (Not a rhetorical question, mainstream media’s polls seem to have their own sampling challenges sometimes)
https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2024/pol…
((There is no commentary from me on anything related to inflation/wages. I only occasionally peruse the Journal of Economic Perspectives(great content, I recommend to anyone) understand my own limitations with macroeconomics, and have no interest in regurgitating talking points at people.))
On the subject of immigrants again, I think that money abhors a vacuum. If there were no jobs for illegals, they wouldn’t be here in general. Some must see US benefits as a “job”, but I doubt that’s the entire illegal population.
Your point about visas for agriculture workers is a good one, but that system is not in place, and if congress’ tone on immigration stays the same or goes (almost certainly) right wing, there will be less legal paths for immigration, not more.
I suppose that would be a neat trick: trump boots the illegals, then welcomes them back with easy to get work visas.
I don’t know the answer to that question, but I’m a member of that 65+ crowd and have many friends who are as well, in my circle very few admitted voting for trump, I know I certainly didn’t.
I think the msm has a habit of sensationalizing everything to attract eyeballs and increase advertising revenue, and most of us block the poll takers on our phones so, unless we’re actively promoting a particular view, they don’t really get the full story.