The Debate

"...but they’re both being rational and respectful IMHO."

Agreed.

I'm surprised Walz wasn't coached on turning that resting frown upside down.

🤠 I'm Not Into Politics, But Good Luck Whoever Wins Da' Election 👽

Okay I take that back, JD had to fact check the moderators. Tisk tisk.

Good overall debate and the more civil tone was refreshing. Walz had a couple of gaffes and stumbles. Vance bombed on abortion and democracy. No obvious clear winner.

Good civility
JDV is a good liar, mostly
Walk had trouble early but picked it up at the end

No one cares about the VP though, unless it’s a whack job like Palin

Saw short clips only. Walz with the "can't yell fire in a crowded theater" lie/ignorance (it's not a law, was overturned long ago) as an excuse to suppress free speech, the cornerstone of democracy, while running on a platform of "saving democracy". Didn't see much of the rest. But what I saw was civil at least, a refreshing change.

I didn’t watch the whole thing. I thought Walz seemed a little nervous at times but then he would get fired up and come out of it.

Vance is smooth. But wish he would lose the beard. Don’t we need to go back more than 100 years for a someone with facial hair

It was civil and professional. I came away more impressed with Vance than I was before and if you don't like resting bitch face then you won't like Waltz, who by the way seems to want to fuck every Iranian male. The idiot either doesn't know who is on our side, or wants it to be Iran

===> "No obvious clear winner. "

I think that depends on what you were seeking from the debate.

If you were seeking to have your confirmation bias fed when Walz trotted out the same old "danger to democracy" and abortion tropes, then you definitely got your wish. But otherwise his performance was sub-par. He dodged hard policy questions, just like Harris did in her last debate. He also had a few embarrassing moments up there.

Vance OTOH showed, by and large, mastery of his topics and a willingness to discuss specific policy goals. He even shut down a so-called "fact check" lol. I definitely could have used less of his autobiographical references, but overall he made a very solid case against 4 more years of the same policies that have caused so much damage both home and abroad.

Partisan voters will vote for their preferred candidates regardless of how their candidates perform in debates. The people who needed to be convinced are the critical swing voters, who often make their decisions based upon policy positions. In that aspect of the debate, Vance was the clear winner.

The moderators will slightly better than the ABC debate. They still provided false and biased "fact checks", and cut off JD's mic when he sought to correct them.

The leftists tried to lower expectations for Tim, who has done 0 unscripted interviews since being announced as VP pick, by leaking how nervous he was. He was worse than nervous, he was grievously unprepared. He lied, he floundered, he deflected, and he provided few clear answers regarding his perception of his role as VP and a weak defense of his horrible decisions as lefty governor. His body language and other non-verbal communication showed a guy who was stunned and confused on a level nearly comparable to Biden's career-ending debate disaster.

I disagree with some of JD's tactics during the debate, but his overall strategy of reminding Walz and the voters that Kamala was the VP for the last four years and supposedly the "last person in the room" and key advisor to Biden's failed leadership is exactly what Trump should have done. His willingness to address the moderator's lies directly, with facts and respect, shows a discipline and confidence that the top of the ticket honestly lacks. JD's charity in offering this free clinic to Walz should be acknowledged as a public service.

I had said in 2020 that people need to consider the VP when picking an elderly president. It is nothing short of miraculous that Biden lived the past four years- as bad as he was Kamala assuredly would have been worse. It will be equally miraculous if Trump can serve the entirety of his four year term, but I have much more respect for Vance and his abilities than anyone on the left. The VP pick us usually to balance our the ticket and pick someone more attractive to the electorate than the headliner: Reagan-Bush (west coast conservative-east coast liberal), Clinton-Gore (southern Baptist freshman- eastern establishment), Biden-Kamala (east coast centrist-west coast leftist). Kamala is the most liberal member of government who looked far and wide for someone even more odiously liberal than herself- and succeeded! Conversely, Trump is a silver spoon from the East Coast where Vance is a self-made success born in the midwest-ish and made a career on the West Coast. They also share a similar goal of restoring America as the world leader in finance, culture, diplomacy, and military power but from very different perspectives. Kamala and Walz are starting from the same ineptitude and seem to share the same goal of destroying America and making us more liberal than France, but without the order and shared culture.

Having said all that, I fundamentally disagree with any belief that Walz should be any closer to the Oval Office than Minneapolis on the west bank of the Mississippi River.

My take, was a snooze fest, between two guys, one of whom will not be elected as a number 2 and disappear never to be heard from again, and one of whom will be elected as a number 2 and disappear never to be heard from again.

Idk 25. I think Vance has a bright political future ahead of him. He's polished and has already shown himself to be electable statewide in Ohio, which is a swing state.

I agree with rick. JD is young, popular, and has shown himself to be an outstanding and charismatic politician. This is only his first term as Senator. He has a long future with many high-profile options ahead of him. Likewise, as much as patriotic Americans should find Walz unelectable, he is popular in his state of MN and has no term limits on his stint as governor. He may continue there and, like other also-rans, make substantially more appearances on leftist news networks.

I didn't watch but was not a fan of either pick.

Vance isn't dumb, but he was chosen for being Trump's mini me with a nice biography. He was too inexperienced when he ran for the Senate, which isn't an entry level job, and not ready for this role either. He won't pull a Palin and embarrass his boss, but should have gotten at best a cabinet level role to give him some seasoning. But if Trump wins, he'll have passed his crash course.

Walz was chosen to put the most bland Midwestern-nice face on a far-left agenda. He won't connect with the Democratic victim-group-obsessed base, nor with moderate white males who aren't the type who wear shirts that say "the future is female" or grovel before black people along how to become "better allies." He's a bet that white males won't look past his skin color and steroid chemistry. He looks like the kind of guy who wouldn't want the presidency. Oh and does anyone else think he always looks like he's about to break down sobbing?

I watched most of it. I thought Vance was the clear winner because he actually came off as smart, reasonable and measured, all of those having eluded him so far in the campaign. Yes, his refusal to concede that Trump lost the election in 2020 and his stance on abortion was extreme, but that was to be expected. Walz did fine but fumbled the “I’m a knucklehead” response and he was clearly nervous especially at the beginning.

I haven’t watched any commentary today, but most of the quick reactions were some surprise at how respectful the two VP candidates were, especially that they acknowledged areas of common ground. What struck me most however is how different the debate was from any in the last 8 years. The dems could make a commercial with a four way split screen of the pres/vp candidates and set it to the tune of Sesame Street song “one of these things is not like the other, one of these things doesn’t belong…”

All of the candidates is coming off as normal. Except Trump. He’s older and more insane and incoherent than ever. Here are some clips from his rally over the weekend. Skip to the below time marks directly to Trump if seeing Seth Meyers would cause you to burst into flames.

https://youtu.be/ebIo3qDNbq0?si=MNeeArP1…

5:20 - migrants are so big and strong that Hollywood can’t find actors to play them.

7:30 - migrants are so smart that they have cell phones and know what a phone app is. Nobody knows what a phone app is (says the guy who owns Truth Social).

He’s lost it.

Calm your tits, Hank, your desperate shilling for Kamala by repeating the Orange Man Bad mantra belies how frightened you are for them dems chances in November.

Kamala hardly comes off as normal herself, whatever "normal" is. It almost doesn't matter. On top of all the pai, which Americans are already feeling, this longshoreman strike is going to destroy the incumbents. On top of all the fear which Americans are already feeling, the turmoil in the Middle East, Asia, and Eastern Europe underscores that the incumbents have no control over world affairs at all. This is all the proof that anyone needs that Biden/Harris are failed executives and we need to change back to when America was strong, stable, and respected.

^ you forgot about trans right.

Blows my mind how when I read about the biggest concerns Gen Z has with the upcoming election this is the number one thing I am hearing.

Sources, Shailynn? I cannot believe that either.

Nevermind. You wrote " Gen Z". I read "Gen X". Yes, I can believe it. They are even worse than millennials.

It was orchestrated to downplay trumps lack of social graces and compulsive use of untruths.

It won't sway anyone either way. Some are set on believing in vances diateibes about immigrants stealing dogs and eating them as a national crisis 🤡

I agree that Vance is a rising star. He doesn’t hurt Trump as his VP nominee, in fact he may help with white working class union members. He doesnt scare me if he had to assume the Presidency.

Walz is sufficiently Vanilla. I guess that helps Kamala. I don’t see him gaining white working class votes for Kamala.

Really, the only thing they had to do was be coherent and compassionate enough to not scare off voters. Even the best debate performance in a VP debate isn't going to persuade many people over the top of the tickets.

Walz demonstrated sufficient command of the issues that he won't scare people off like Dan Quayle or Sarah Palin. I think JD Vance rehabilitated himself enough that he alone isn't a reason to vote against Trump.

Waltz's response when asked why he said he was in 1989 at Tiananmen Square when he was in Nebraska was a mess of an answer. His Stolen Valor narrative for many years was not challenged here.

Some points in this debate that really frustrated me with JDV's responses:

1) Trump does not and never has accepted "Project 2025", JDV didn't counter with "Show us all where Trump endorses it."

2) The Senate Immigration Bill would hire more Border Patrol Agents however they'd be reduced to Travel Agents, it allows 2M to enter, nothing about mass deportation of criminals/gangs, nothing about real/physical North and South border security, and Migration Air would continue unfettered and not part of the 2M and did their best to hide it. JDV needed to bring up that HR2 was shelved 20 months ago by Schumer who never even brought it to the floor for a vote let alone a debate or compromise. Harris/Biden sold off all unused Wall material for pennies on the Dollar.

3) Biden killed on Day One the Keystone XL Pipeline and fired 1,000s of good paying jobs that included union workers.

4) he should have said "IRS data shows the Trump Tax cuts helped the Middle and Lower Class more than it did the Upper Income Class. Upper Income, 1%, increased their "share" of over-income tax collected from 45% to 47%." When you raise taxes on corporations, they pass it on to the end consumer and they find lower tax countries to manufacture their products.

5) He need to mention that Biden sold some of our Strategic Oil Reserves to China. https://www.forbes.com/sites/daneberhart…

6) Manufacturing has been slowing 22 out of the past 24 months.

7) Jobs for the past year were revised down 818,000 - that's a big "oppsie." Jobs are primarily recovery jobs from 2020, not new, numbers are just a tad above 2019 numbers. Many new jobs are part-time. Immigrant employment is up close to 2M and American citizen employment is down about 2M.

8) ACA/Obamacare didn't lower costs by $2,000 nor could many keep their doctors. That was the pitch. MIT Economist/Obamacare Architect Professor Jonathan Gruber, said they had to rely on the lack of transparency and the "stupidity of voters": "The basic point is that the more you can keep people from understanding what’s going on, the more you can keep the subsidies and the taxes hidden, the more you can get people to support the legislation."

How much do VP debates matter? The Trump/Harris debate didn't move the needle, and not only was that the one between the two people that matter but had a clearer winner in Harris? It seems like "do no harm" is the order of the day for VPs, these days.

https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/p…

Polls were becoming unreliable going back to 2004. I remember that exit polls had a clear lead for Kerry until the after work voters began casting their ballots. It quickly and decisively swung to Bush. In 2012, Obama's job approval was abysmal enough and polling strong enough to Romney that it seemed to be in the bag. Obama won. We all know that 2016 was so strongly polling for Clinton that even the Republicans abandoned him and ran to save themselves. He had a resounding win. Biden's win in 2020 has a big fat coronavirus-shaped asterisk next to it. Even in 2022, Republicans were polling to flip Congress until Gen z and Millennials accepted Biden's bribe to erase their student debt.

^ I never bought that Romney was going to beat Obama. He never seemed to have a reason for running other than "I'm the next man up." He's flipflopped on everything, so he had no natural constituency other than people who voted the party rather than the man.

I believe the "shy Trump voter" is real, but that Trump would have won if not for the pandemic. That plus the GOP's inherent EC advantage has me favoring him to win, and Harris and Walz being exposed as people learn more about them.

One thing is for certain though, I don't envy whoever wins. Lots of problems on their plate foreign and domestic.

It was weird seeing a normal, civil debate

Gotta give Walz credit - he wasn’t drunk


https://www.facebook.com/share/r/gtM934f…

Walz has a weird goony focus-face, like he might be retarded. He's obviously not retarded, but he looks that way a bit. Vance is a lying piece of shit who will say literally anything to get closer to power... now he selling us the guy he called America's Hitler. Nice. Vance had the best GOP anti-abortion pitch I've ever seen... you can't put any more lipstick on that turd than he did. Walz had no good excuse for Kamala's dumb plan to give everyone $25k and then watch every house go up in cost by.... $25k. I almost feel sorry for Vance trying to duck and weave for Trump. Walz did the right thing and attacked Trump, mostly ignoring Vance as a record. Vance got caught mansplaining the moderator, classy.

I thought it was a snoozer... but then, maybe a snoozer is better than Biden drooling, or Trump talking about the size of his hands. Boring is actually pretty good, now that I think of it, but it's still boring.

Next time they should have tasers.

The key pertinent fact in this thread is that when wild4testes says there was no clear winner, you know he knows that Vance looked better but he's too big of a leftist shill to admit it!

Regarding the weird faces walz makes, yeah half of the time he looks like he's going to break out crying and the other half he looks like he has a severe case of constipation.

It was easier for this debate to be more civil, because they were both attacking the other's running mate far more than each other.

Walz had some very good hits but he still had a big miss, and Harris missed it too. What they both miss is addressing this talking point that "everything was great under Trump and let's just bring back those happy days".

The response to this simplistic fairy tale is to point out the facts: Trump didn't build a strong economy, he inherited one from Obama. He rode on the coattails of Obama's economic recovery, and helped it slightly with a giant tax cut that mostly benefitted the rich, and exploded the deficit. Like Bush 43, he gave the next (Democratic) President a mess to clean up. Trump's plan for a second term is to rinse and repeat. Ride on Biden's economic recovery and ensure millionaires and billionaires benefit the most.

Harris and Vance should focus more on this one.

^ Harris and Walz.... we really need an edit function

^
You need to get those leftwinger testes off your chin more than we need an edit button, Lol

VP debates rarely move the needle in presidential elections, and this one was close enough to be no exception.

What it did do is strengthen Vance, especially for conservatives. He seemed to thread the needle of making himself sound reasonable compared to Trump. I bet a lot of Conservatives are wishing he was the Republican Nominee. He seems to clearly be setting up his future career while not actively doing anything to upset MAGA.

I am voting for Trump/Vance (duh). Trump is older now (78 years) than Biden was when he was elected in 2020 (77 yy). Trump is a fat old man. I expect that Trump's family would prefer him to be at Mar a Lago and home with them and his grandchildren than trying to fix the incredible mess which the democrats have made of this nation and world. While he is mentally sharper now than Biden has been in decades, the likelihood that he will finish his four year term is perhaps the same as I would have given Biden in 2020 (which is less than 50%). For that reason, Biden's selection of Kamala was important and Trump's selection of Vance is significant. People really should be considering this and what they watched Tuesday night when voting in November.

Vance is young, yet nowhere near as attractive as someone like Newsom. He should probably get rid of the beard, because it feeds into the neckbeard stereotype many have about right wingers, trumpers, white supremacists etc. His facial roundness and chubbiness, combined with the beard really feeds into that stereotype.

@JamesSD: Normally I would 100% agree with you that the VP debate doesn't move the needle. But not this time.

43 million people watched that debate. There is no doubt that undecided and swing voters were well represented in that mix. Walz's performance had to concern some of them, especially his unwillingness to give a straight answer on specific policy matters. Folks who tuned in to understand the policy positions of the Harris campaign were no doubt very disappointed and likely rather frustrated.

I think it was more important for Vance, because now that Trump is the oldest candidate and his age is showing badly, as far as Walz goes I don’t think he’s as much needed by Harris as the folks that always vote Democrat are in her pocket, and the never Trumpers will be mostly voting for her. So on balance Vance had a somewhat better night than Walz, but I think they needed it more.

The viral moment from the debate seems to be Vance whining about the rules and being fact checked for lying.

Not a good look.

Trump has 4 years of Policy/Performance, and will do same/similar for 4 more years.

Harris has 4 years of being in the current administration and has showed no signs of anything different plus raising taxes and new programs that are unfunded. For the past 20 out of 22 months, manufacturing has declined. The response to the Ashville Region Catastrophe has been abysmal at best. The Cajun Navy and private groups have done way more. These people do not have voting access due to devastation. It's been a week, and the private sector has done more that than FEMA (who needs money as they blew $1B on illegals.) Granted, there is no way to prepare for a Catastrophe like Helene is mainly due to 1,000 Year Mudslides. The military, Army Corp of Engineers and Seebees should have been fully mobilized 6 days ago.

I look at what people say they'll do and then what they did. I'm all in with DJT/JDV. Trump/Vance is no where near perfect, however, Harris/Walt are like a litterbox cats won't touch.

===> "The viral moment from the debate seems to be Vance whining about the rules and being fact checked for lying."

He didn't whine, he shut the so-called "fact check" down. The moderator tried to put her own political spin on the situation and he called her out and brought clarity to the circumstances. Indeed her embarrassment over her failed "fact check" attempt is likely what kept her from trying it again during the rest of the debate.

Being fact checked left Vance whining like Rick when his wife left him 🤡

“ had no good excuse for Kamala's dumb plan to give everyone $25k and then watch every house go up in cost by.... $25k.”

Thats just now how the economy or prices work. A 25k payout to first time home buyers would cause generalized inflation in the housing market. It wouldn’t raise each individual houses cost by 25k. Did the price of things go up by $1200 when people got $1200 stimulus checks…?

^ You haven't heard of "inflation"? Too much money chasing too few goods.

@Icee - speaking of someone's woman leaving him. Rick still seems to be living a good life, and not getting distraught about losing a woman to an even bigger loser.

https://tuscl.net/discussion/76367

🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡!!!!!

@Puddy I mentioned inflation in my comment. I was pointing out the silliness of claiming a $25000 stimulus check raises the prices of houses by 25k.

Im not even certain that house prices across the country would all increase by the same % number, let alone the dollar amount. For instance a million dollar house in NY may go up by 100k… a million dollar house elsewhere may only go up 50k… etc