OK it's your turn

FONDL,

Very interesting reading. We have some early relationship common experinces with our respective ATF. I just wish I had been able to continue with mine, as you did with yours.

I can't say I can remember a time standing still experience as you describe them, but I did have something quite similar when I was 18, and got myself shot.

Sounds like you fell for her pretty hard FONDL.

My turn? Thanks to you (and a few others around here) I'll never have a turn. You guys have completely scared me off!

What do you mean Jay? Scared you off from ATFs?

Yes, no ATF's for me thank you.

"Sounds like you fell for her pretty hard FONDL." Yes I did MisterGuy, but not in the way that you probably think. The more I got to know her, the less sexual or romantic interest I had. It was actually pretty weird, her LDs bacame more playful in an innocent kind of way and less sexual as time went on. It got to the point where we'd be laughing during LDs. As I've told her, I love her very much but I've never been in love with her.

JayADay, I'm sorry to hear that you're scared of becoming friends with a girl. I's actually quite nice to have a very close female friend. I wish I'd have had one many years ago.

And to all of you guys, thanks for reading my story. Hope you got something out of it.

I read the blog and it's well ....quite deep. I can relate to certain aspects as I'm in the beginning of my first ATF experience. As others said above, your account is yet another warning of what I'm probably in for. It's probably different for me though, not in too deep yet. Lots going on during laps (I mean anything), we enjoy each other's company ITC and just started talking about OTC. I will never fall in love with her but it's more obsession or crush. But it gives me a real jump in my step.

Rootman, every ATF relationship is unique and different. Yours won't be anything like mine. I'd love to hear about it. Or anyone else's.

I'll summarize while the big head is doing the thinking. I'm going to see her in a couple hours. For me, I'm sure it started because of the extras. That brought me back enough to get to know her and I really do like her personally so that enhances it all. For the past few months, we've engaged in weekly (sometimes more) spirited LAP sessions, extras included to the point where it's getting hard to keep the noise down. If I'm thinking straight, I assume this is a plain old GFE without the pressure of a GF (I'm married). But now I'm frustrated that I can't afford to see her more than weekly so maybe our venture OTC will help that. As I told DougS once, I think I'm really fucked now (both ways) but I do feel 20ish again. From all I've read on this site, I'm convinced this can only end poorly, just don't know when.

The thing is...I'm not so sure that getting at ATF is the same as having a regular female friend. I've had plenty of female friends (even some that we bi-sexual), but none of them were strippers. I don't pay my female friends to be friends with me...and I'm not saying that you do FONDL.

MisterGuy, I agree with you. We didn't start out as friends nor was that my (or her) objective. And we didn't really become friends until well after she stopped dancing. We were club buddies first. I didn't address the money issue in my blog because it really wasn't very important. She was never especially interested in money and I wouldn't have stuck around if she was. that's one of the things that initially intrigued me. In fact that's one of the things that I learned from her, how unimportant money really is.

FONDL,

RE: "As I've told her, I love her very much but I've never been in love with her."

I was once trying to explain to my ATF how I love her, but never thought of that. Perhaps I should maybe use that. I still don't know a decent way to explain it.

There's a difference between platonic love and romantic love...even a stripper will know the difference.

FONDL: Sorry, I haven't read all of your chapters, yet, but in chats with you in the past, and reading your posts, etc., I have a pretty good idea of your situation and how you arrived at your current status.

As MisterGuy hinted at, and I know I will get some "feedback" with this statement, but I believe an ATF - for that matter, include favs - relationships ARE the same as having a regular female friend. True, there is USUALLY not LOVE involved, but how many friendships do you have where there IS love involved? Also true that there can be platonic, and / or romantic feelings, just as there are in other "real" relationships.

Typically, no matter what the level of "love" there is in an ATF /fav relationship, there is LUST involved. In my experiences, I believe it's been a mutual lust... even if it isn't does it matter?

Should one be afraid of allowing one's feelings to consider a dancer an ATF? Why not? You just have to be VERY careful. It's NOT a given that things will end poorly. Most likely it WILL end, though.. just like any other relationship one would have in the "real" world.

Thinking back on my relationships (specifically of the dancer variety), I don't feel that any of them have ended poorly. I have a LOT of fond memories, and I have no regrets.

You have to assume that as convincing as she might be, it's extremely likely that her "feelings" for you are not as sincere as you think - or hope.

Clubber, here's one way of explaining the difference - are you jealous of her boyfriend? When my ATF first started going with her current BF 4 years ago she was initially afraid to tell me about him. When she did I was glad - I like him and I think he is good for her, I hope they get married, I look forward to attending the wedding. If I were "in love" with her, my feelings about that would be totally different.

I think the thing that makes love so hard to describe is that every one is different. I've been in lpove several times and they were all different. I've loved a lot of other people too, and they were all different. IMO every love is unique and is pretty complicated.

I like to have feelings for a dancer, it makes it more fun. It's why I like to sit and talk and get to know them a little, I'd rather get dances from a real person than from a piece of meat. Fir me if there aren't some feeling involved an LD isn't much fun.

I've had 4 faves. Only one of them ended badly and that was my fault, I did some dumb things.

FONDL,

I knew my ATF when she decided to move in with her boyfriend. That didn't bother me, but when I started to find out some things about him, THAT bothered me. I never told her anything, as I figured she was smart enough to see the light. She did, but she got hurt in the mean time. That bothers me that I didn't try to intervene in some way.

Another "sort of ATF" I knew got real sick with cancer. That was difficult to accept. But I did see her about a year later, and she was in remission at the time. Since then, No idea what has happened to her. Before that time, I was getting updates from a favorite bartender that she would call.

I think we all do dumb things that cause problems. I KNOW I have!

Clubber, re the BF thing, I never offer advice unless it's asked for. Telling someone the obvious when they don't want to hear it doesn't help anyone, least of all your relationship with that person, they're likely to resent you for it. I've been very very careful about that with my ATF. I didn't care for her previous BF at all - he was a real loser and a drug dealer. Once she got clean she realized that he was a major part of her problem and dumped him. I've never said a bad word about him, either before or since. There's nothing to be gained by it and a lot to lose. The entire episode brought us closer together. He was a major reason why she started spending a lot of time with me.

FONDL: I read your blog. I have known you for so long that nothing was a revelation. You probably have the most unusual relationship of any body posting on here. I wish you much luck in continuing that relationship. I am not going to post a blog. This is a new thing to me and it just seems to me to be a one way conversation. Noway to respond. I find that to b a bummer.

One of her favorite quotes is a Zen Buddhist saying, "When the student is ready the teacher will appear." I was ready. She appeared. Thank you, God.

i enjoyed your story, especially the above quote. i used it over the last nearly three decades to describe losing my virginity.

Shadowcat, people respond by sending private messages. It actually becomes a better conversation than posting on these threads because you only get responses from people who want to discuss what you're talking about, it eliminates all the extraneous stuff. Try it, you might like it.

You can always e-mail someone that posts a blog...I know I have before. You obviously don't have to blog if you don't want to though.

FONDL,

That is what I said about her bf, "I never told her anything, as I figured she was smart enough to see the light. She did..." She ended up confiding somethings to me and asking advice. Again the "father" thing. From here on we differ. After that we grew apart, not closer together, at least in my eyes. I only wish we could have spent more time together.

A quick question, how were you able, being married, to spend a lot of time with her? Was it just the weekly visit ITC, or that and OTC adventures?

Clubber, for years I went to DC on a weekly basis on business. It got to a point where for several years I had an apartment in the area, even though I lived in another state (that's pretty common in DC.) For the last couple years that she lived in the DC area we got together twice every week - I'd see her at work once a week (she was waitressing at the time), then we'd get together on another night for dinner together.

I don't think you can control where these things go or how long they last, except for choosing to end it of course. They acquire a life of their own. As I've said before, I think all relationships are based on filling each others' needs. As long as you are uniquely filling some important needs that the girl has, it's going to last. When she no longer feels that need the relationship will likely end. For many young strippers from disfunctional homes, I think the surrogate father thing is a big need.