Biden calling Putin a murderous war criminal
Lone_Wolf
Arizona
Biden calling Putin a war criminal is short sighted. How can we negotiate with Putin in the future. He's not going away anytime soon and Russia is a major nuclear power.
Plus, the point could be made it's the pot calling the kettle black.
Plus, the point could be made it's the pot calling the kettle black.
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Whether or not it's pragmatic is a different discussion. Russia is well over the line in targeting civilians. Everyone other than the edgelords here (who I don't even believe are sincere) acknowledges that.
Putin's "de-Nazification" was a pretext and never a good one. A friend of mine with an advanced degree in this area (and a specialization in Russia) says Russia wants all of Ukraine. If he's dead set on that, this war is going to go on for decades or until nukes fly. If Putin wanted a guarantee that Ukraine won't join NATO, it didn't need to come to this. NATO (Article 5, I believe) wouldn't allow anyone with such disputed territory in. Ironically, this demonstrates why joining NATO would be beneficial. In the Budapest Declaration, Ukraine gave up nukes because we said this _wouldn't_ happen.
If anything, Biden might be looking _too_ reasonable so far. You don't start a negotiation taking your own options off the table. A little Trump bombast might go a long way. If they learn they can get what they want by threatening nuclear war, they won't stop.
Russia is not some great power to coddle. Their economy is the size of Texas'. As the world gets away from fossil fuels, or learns how to better pump them, they lose relevance. They need to start being responsible on the world stage, or stop being relevant on it.
* Particularly "but you lynch negroes!" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_ar…
Which is funny because Russia still harbors a ton of anti-black racism.
Biden wants Russians in the streets overthrowing the gov. Whats America's reaction to such protests and revolutionary acts?
It's not "whataboutism" it's pointing out hypocrisy and the idiocy of American exceptionalism.
We just got out of a 20 year war in afghanistan that we started....and lost. We're arming the saudi war in Yemen. Arming ukraine. Still have a declared "war on terrorism "... and pressing domestic problems.
But if America waits until we're pure, let alone have atoned for ever sin we've committed, we cease to have _any_ agency in the world. What would have happened if we let charges of hypocrisy keep us out of WW2, for example? Hitler was just getting warmed up. The Greater Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere was just getting warmed up.
I don't want another quagmire any more than you do. But I don't think anyone does. What we can't do is sit on our ass and pretend to be neutral.
Any country has a right to call us out on our past transgressions when we start acting self righteous. As they should.
Oh yea, small GDP or not, Russia has the ability to destroy the world which does make them a super power. Anyone thinking otherwise is an idiot.
I doubt Biden made Putin refer to the fall of the USSR as the greatest tragedy. Or annex Crimea and parts of Georgia. Or level Grozny. When someone like that tells you what they want to do, believe them.
Short of time travel, we can't erase Iraq or Afghanistan. What we can do is prevent a further humanitarian catastrophe by whatever means. Hope you're donating to some cause supporting refugees. Regardless of how or why the war started, the suffering is real
Unless you believe in imperialism. We have no stake in foreign wars.
If you can't distinguish between them and people fighting a hostile invader who once occupied them and has had designs on them ever since they were freed, you are too stupid to converse with.
"You support the violent overthrow of putin but not violence in the US."
Putin is much much worse than Biden.
"You support foreign aid to fund a war but not money to rebuild our infrastructure."
Did you see what I just said about billions vs trillions? Or did you just flunk math?
"You support Ukraine which has the skinhead azov batallion in its military."
We don't have the luxury of moral purity. We've teamed with lesser evils for centuries now.
"While opposing civil rights movements at home"
Lol I support civil rights. BLM is organized grift. Antifa are anarchist LARPers.
We should also give them an on off ramp to deescalate. Destroying an economy and using irreversible rhetoric is a questionable strategy.
Any thought that this shit has anything to do with morals is ridiculous.
It's all about money and retaining power. Always had been and always will be.
If it's not about morals, we need to kick every argument about hypocrisy, America's flawed past, etc to the curb.
Mexican Americans? Do you shed tears for those the Aztecs conquered? Slew en masse to dedicate to their god? Could you even name all the people they slew? The border has been where it's been for almost two centuries. If you think everyone lived in harmony before whitey came along, you must have been educated in public schools.
I don't know who Chicago ever conquered but you often don't make sense.
Support the struggle at home. Antifa and blm are freedom fighters. More so than the azov batallion.
Do stfu about Ukraine.
"Antifa and blm are freedom fighters."
Fighting for freedom of dollars from leftist celebs wallets mostly.
Fear mongering isn't based on facts. Believing a war should expand based on what if scenarios is inane.
Yet they live better here than in Mexico or Africa. We're past Jim Crow and into the age of microaggressions.
"Believing a war should expand based on what if scenarios is inane."
What about based on the words out of Putin's and his advisors' mouths? What you call what if scenarios, thinkers call scenario planning.
"You call antifa and blm criminals while saying we should look past neonazi brigades jn the Ukrainian military"
Again comparing two different things. The Ukrainian army, whatever they believe, is resisting invaders.
Antifa and BLM are criminals. Want links to some of the indictments? The damage caused?
Blm and antifa are criminals while neonazis in Ukraine are freedom fighters?
And what if scenarios justify ww3 but Americans should stfu a follow the status quo.
All your points are moot.
Wrong. I'm saying they choose to be here because warts and all it beats the alternative. You don't have a right to your ancestral grudges in this country. Whatever this country took from your ancestors, it has given even the relatively oppressed here a better chance to succeed then the relatively well off elsewhere. Wanting to milk grudges to get ahead rather than study and work hard is loser talk.
"And what if scenarios justify ww3 but Americans should stfu a follow the status quo."
Don't know why you keep putting these words in my mouth. I'm saying we squash WW3 in the egg rather than sticking our heads in the sand and thinking it won't spread like the last two did.
Ancestral grudges? You're the one living a mccarthyist wet dream on a strip club site.
You showed your true colors
Like the rest of us, they can emigrate to any one of a number of countries they feel better suit their needs. Yet over 3 million African born individuals chose to call the US home. If this country were some racist hell, they wouldn't and anyone with a few bucks would GTFO. There are over 200 other countries in the world. Yet somehow they stay here. A lot of countries need to build walls to keep people in, we need to build them to keep people out! Tell you what, go to the border and warn any nonwhite immigrant what a hellscape they're stepping into, that they should go back where they came from. I'm sure you'll get takers. Right? Lulz.
If Antifa and BLM are "civil rights" organizations then the term has no meaning. Another BLM founder in my neck of the woods absconded with six figures, lol. But it's the thought that counts, isn't it? Lulz.
"You're the one living a mccarthyist wet dream on a strip club site."
I'm sure this made sense in your tiny little head. Lulz.
Lulz.
You're hallucinating again
You have crocodile tears for Ukraine and making excuses for neonazis while demonizing American Civil rights groups.
You're saying minorities should leave the US if they don't like it and call protestors criminals while saying Russians should overthrow their gov.
You have zero credibility
He's not.
Biden saying that no American soldier would be on the ground in Ukraine was a mistake. He should have continually answer "we're still evaluating that".
At this point, Putin doesn't care about loosing 20,000 conscripts. Too many Russians actually believe his bullshit that Ukraine is full of Nazi's and he's freeing them. Respect for the Russian military is gone, not coming back if they withdraw.
There's just no real personal risk in it for Putin until someone marches into the Kremlin, whether that's Ukraine, NATO or the Russian people. He can't loose an election, WTF does he care how angry the Russian people are? His internal security services are actually bigger than the army that invaded Ukraine, and probably more ruthless...
When the fuck have I ever said we should invade Russia?
Trying to disentangle the rest of your post is like trying to untie wet, knotted shoelaces. When you don't call American criminals "protestors" and even (lulz) "civil rights groups," you're misrepresenting what I said.
In the end you're just another CJ playing the "wHaTaBoUt America" game. Go get high and pimp out your sister, let the adults make decisions.
I'm saying we need to stop this conflagration--indisputably started by Russia--from becoming WW3.
"That's the biggest whataboutism on here lulz."
I don't think you know the definition of the term.
"So we have to invade it first."
Whoa. You're on a runaway freight train there, little buddy. Go back to what I said.
You have crocodile tears for Ukraine and making excuses for neonazis while demonizing American Civil rights groups.
You're saying minorities should leave the US if they don't like it and call protestors criminals while saying Russians should overthrow their gov.
You have zero credibility
But you'll still keep replying and go full sjg on the thread.
Keep tilting at straw men.
But keep going full retard
Well, we're titty bar fans firing off armchair assessments about a national security crisis in Eastern Europe. Technically, the baseline of credibility for everyone here is zero.
Either of those, especially if the latter is true, gives justification for the UN to intervene militarily. However, we already know that China controls most of the UN apparatchik and China is eagerly extending a line of unrepayable credit and debt hoarsing to Russia, so China will not allow the UN to do the right thing or anything that might compromise the 100 year China plan for global hegemony.
SJG
X- Live At The Whisky A Go Go
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LInxU2dW…
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/russ…
SJG