As many of you know, I haven't been to a club in a couple of years. I seem to have lost interest to a large extent. There are probably a lot of reasons why, but one of them is that it was getting harder and harder for me to find dancers who appealed to me, while the number who didn't appeared to be growing. That seemed to be especially true in the smaller neghborhood-type clubs that I prefer. Is that just me getting too fussy in my old age, or just bad luck, or are others finding the same problem? Are most of the best girls moving to more upscale clubs, or are there just fewer of them out there? What's been your experience?
I think it is, as I've said before. I also don't think it is too surprising given that there is a lot less money in it that there used to be. A good dancer needs people skills similar to a salesman, a real estate agent, whatever. She has to be able to read people, convince them they want what she has, and have them leave happy they paid for a dance and looking forward to another. A former ATF got into the buisness before I ever started clubbing. She told me that in the early 90's the club was packed every weeknight, and she'd never walk out with less than $300. That is for a weeknight in a club with no lapdances. By the time she quit to run her buisness full time (she started a personell agency, she's a headhunter) she said she was lucky to take that much home on a Friday or Saturday night, and a good weeknight might be $200. That is about a 30-40% paycut over about 12 years, meaning with even the very mild inflation we've had for 2 decades it is probably closer to 50% in real terms.
As much as we try to commoditize dancers, the nature of business is still highly subjective, especially for well rounded customers that have certain standards. Fondl, it may be the case that your values have changed a bit during the time you took off from clubbing, or may be the simple case of being "at the right place, at the right time". If anything, the economy should increase the supply of the dancers (both new and those that came back dancing) while pushing the prices down. Dancers' pay still relatively high compared to other careers the girls can pursue give the background of many. I think now is the time to get the best deals out there, just like with Real Estate. The economic laws are almost as reliable as the law of gravity, LOL! Fondl, hope you find your next ATF soon.
No, I haven't noticed that. If anything I seem to be finding more and more dancers. I guess they must be leaving FONDL'S area and moving south closer to me. Lol, just joking. :)
I could make the same argument about pizza. I hadn't ordered any pizza from one outlet in over 2 years. It seemed like the quality of order out pizza was declining. The pizza place I didn't order from went out of business or closed down in my town. One important detail I left out of all of that was that a competitor pizza outlet had run a blitz of special pizza coupons all across town with people actually buying the coupon books to get pizzas from them at a much bigger than normal discount. Apparently they did enough damage to the competitor that it drove the competitor out of business. Oh well, similiar story but I have noticed some big strip clubs driving down the business at smaller strip clubs. The dancers go to where they can make the money at. I think of the Platinum Plus clubs in the strip club world as similiar to the Walmart store. They get lots of people and offer discounted dances and make big money in the process and destroy competitors in the process. The dancers and people stop visiting the dying businesses as much.
However if you like Walmart and saving money or the equivalent in the strip club business, it's good for the consumer. I have like an upscale version of Walmart in the strip club business. There are some very hot girls working but they like to charge more. They give me discounts because I'm a regular or repeat customer.
Professor, there's no question that my standards rose after I got to know my ATF. After she quit dancing I kept looking for someone else like her and never found one. So after 6 years of disappointment I stopped looking. But aside from not finding another dancer like her, I also noticed that there weren't as many girls who appealed to me physically, and I didn't use to have that problem. Now that I've taken a long breather I may find that I enjoy clubs more. If not I'll stick to massages.
Casualguy, I've always thought that southern clubs had more attractive dancers. They tend to be more polite too, but then so does everyone else. That's pretty true of the Midwest too. Hope I don't offend anyone but it's always been my opinion that the further you get from from the Northeast (where I've always lived) the more civil people are. It's very noticable when you travel a lot. It's also very noticable with strippers, give me a sweet southern girl any day.
Fondl, much like you I have high standard when it comes to physical attributes of the dancer. After the incredible experience that I recently had (just 4-6 months ago), I do not think I can find a dancer like my first ATF (she quit dancing too). I feel your disappointment: 6 years is a long time. But do not get discourage. Keep positive, that's the key! You may find her, or she may find you your very next trip to the club. Life is full of surprises.
I think overall quality AND quantity have dropped in the last 10 years or so. As FONDL says, this seems more so in the smaller, local, regulars, clubs, which I also prefer.
Professor, you may not be aware of it (almost everyone else here is) but I'm still close friends with my ATF - we talk almost every day on the phone and we visit each other when we can. So it's not like I lost her, she just stopped dancing. She's now a massage therapist and gives me massages whenever we can. I don't really have much interest in finding another favorite. And I don't think my standards are that high - cute, young, nice smile, fit, fairly intelligent, friendly positive attitude, not too tall - seems to me that should be fairly easy to find.
Sounds like you're asking for the world. <just teasing> I was at The Trap last night and not a single dancer met your requirements and there was a good number of dancers. :( Sometimes when the food supply changes, then your tastes need to change? NO!!!!! :)
I think even if you went to Tootsies which has hundreds of dancers you'd be lucky to find 3. The reason being is the focus seems to be on "sexy" and not cute at all. And, then the price goes to the stratosphere unless you don't think $25 for 3 minutes is strato land. And, I think for a lot of customers 3 minutes is more than enough time so it is a good deal or they make very excellent money and $25 for 3 minutes is reasonable or even cheap.
Over at Angels I saw a dancer who was just adorable in street clothes without makeup. She was still hot with all the garbage i.e. high heels, makeup, fancy outfit, etc., but I would have been a lot happier just getting her as she came in the door. She even acted better in street clothes--more natural and girlish. The club is just a little too upscale--concern with all types of flash, one of the negatives of inner city--even though it is a dive.
I thought it was generally agreed that dancer quality has been in decline for several years. I've certainly seen it happening. Fewer attractive girls take up stripping now that the money doesn't come so easy. Clubs that used to be more selective have taken to hiring anybody who will pay the stage fees.
On the other hand, I think there is a natural tendency to overstate how bad it has become and to look back through rose colored glasses. For example, I suspect I am a lot less attracted than I used to be to "seasoned" pro-type strippers who may appear sexy at first glance: tanned with bleached hair, boob job, etc. As a newbie, I included them on the plus side, and they contribute to my memory of the overall quality, although I wouldn't count them as a plus today.
Also, I think it's misleading to base your assessment on the inability to find a replacement for an ATF. That says more about ones personal situation than overall dancer quality. In fact, I think it's folly to set out to look for another dancer who is like your ATF, but maybe that's a separate issue.
In my case and with my looks and at my age, ANY dancer can appeal to me!!
It doesn't take very much to please me, as well as Mr Happy! I'm just your normal 'strip club junky' looking for fun and excitement, whether 'extras' be available or not! JUST GET ME "HARD"!!! I wanna' make sure he still works occassionally!
Professor - Certain standards?? You mean I'm suppose to have standards? LOL
FONDL - Did you lose your ATF? If so, I'll try and help find her, for a finder's fee of course! LOL Ah yes, the massage therapist. Hmmm, now that I think of it, it's time I get back with mine!!! Been a whole week since the last one.
As far as 'general dancer quality', I believe it depends on the type club you visit. Henceforth, if you visit an upscale club, you find prettier dancers. This is not always the case, as locality and economic factors figure in. But, yes, it is easy to conceive that dancers' looks are diminishing.
How about some responses from our 'dancer' members???
Fondl, thank you for clarification, now I am caught up with the rest of the gang. And I am not going to ask you a stupid question like: " ...then why are you still looking for a quality dancer in SCs?" No, I am not asking that question :), LOL
Bones, the only standard I expect for you to have is the ability to recognize that "she is a she". I would hate for you to go through "Crying Games" experience... just kidding ! :)
yes, yes, yes. there are way too many clubs and not enough quality females to staff them, so standards decline until staffing needs are met. Paticularly in large netor areas, club numbers should be reduced by 50%.
FONDL, I'll agree with you that people seem friendlier here in the South than up north in general. However I have encounted a number of friendly people from up north.
Several years ago at one time at one no touch all air club, I do remember lots of hot 10's in the club. I even remember seeing a couple of 10's every once in a while in my local area. Now most dancers I see just look good but don't really get my heart pumping to any great degree unless they're getting a bit wild with me with some acrobatic stage tipping.
It depends on what you are after. I think if you gave them all a rating on a scale of 1-10 and averaged them out, the number is less than a few years ago. But one of the clubs I go to has indisputably gone up from when they opened three years ago, but it is also the big fish in the little pond and can and will turn dancers down who want to work there. But the thing is I can always find someone to be the star of the day anywhere, so I don't worry about it for myself.
If you can, "...always find someone to be the star of the day anywhere...", then you have just not been to the right clubs. I would bet that all of us here, that frequent clubs, except maybe you, have visited at least one club that we couldn't get out of fast enough! Visit Florida, and I'll point out a couple for you.
Clubber, maybe DandyDan drinks a lot more at clubs then we do. Never forget, beauty is in the eye of the beerholder.
Jablake, whenever I've been to Brad's Brass, I'd say that about a third of the girls there met my criteria. But maybe that's why I think Brad's is the best club in the country.
Bones, you're welcome, for both the "thank you" and you're sincere offer to help. I'd tell you where my ATF is but you're WAY too horny for her. But if you're ever in the Tampa area and want to get the world's best NONSEXUAL massage, let me know.
If in fact dancer quality is declining, as most here seem to agree, I think the answer it simple: There are too many strip clubs. Just a couple of examples in areas I am familiar with:
Flint, MI (pop. about 125,000) -- TUSCL lists 9 clubs
How can a town this size support 9 clubs? Of course the talent pool is going to be diluted and dancer quality will be down. You will have to search for the good ones.
Kokomo, IN (pop. about 46,000) -- TUSCL lists 6 clubs
Kokomo has one great club and 5 shitty clubs. A town this size can only support one club. Of course the quality of the girls will be spread too thin.
Lansing, MI (pop. about 120,000) -- TUSCL lists 3 clubs
Lansing has roughly the same population has Flint, yet only has one third the number of clubs. And in contrast to Flint, the talent in Lansing is pretty good.
I think the answer seems simple - until some of the under-performing clubs close their doors, there are too many opporunities for average looking dancers to find work.
David,
it always puzzles me that some clubs may have 10 girls working one shift and almost no customers present. Forget about girls, but how can the club survive with little to no customer patronage? While we may think that some clubs should close thier doors and the natural selection should take its course, those clubs are still open. There are got to be some other forces at play.
clubber-
I think my point was missed. I think the importance of this question is overrated. It might be true (in fact, I would say it is true for most places) that dancer quality is down from where it used to be, but as a person who goes to strip clubs occasionally, there are times when I go to a club and most of the dancers aren't worth my time, but there is usually somebody who is. Let's say I get a lapdance from this particular dancer. Now, to an individual patron at a specific moment in time, does it really matter whether the quality of the dancers is down from where it used to be, if you got a girl giving you a lapdance at that specific moment? I don't think so. Then again, maybe I demand less than everyone else here.
"Evidence indicates that it is the mere presence of the tattoo, not its artistic content, that correlates with certain diagnoses. Thus, any tattoo can be viewed as a warning sign that should alert the practicing physician to look for underlying psychiatric conditions."
(Raspa, Robert F. and John Cusack 1990, Psychiatric Implications of Tattoos, American Family Physician. 41: p. 1483)
It's everywhere. My original strip-clubbing experiences in the 1980s were all about getting surrounded by lithe, supple, young-looking girls who had a type of "runner's build" or "gym rat" physique. I just went in and was SURROUNDED by them. (Maybe I was at the right clubs?) Now I spend most of my strip-club time trying to FIND these girls among their co-workers. They used to be about 75%; now they're 5%.
If you don't prefer that type, or actively DISlike that type, then you would not necessarily say that dancer quality is declining, at least not on the basis of that evidence. But if that's what you're looking for, and you find it to be of ever decreasing supply, then by direct correlation the desirability of dancers is indeed declining.
If you're a tit man and just want huge woggly waggliness in giant descending mamms, no matter what kind of wiggly belly or cheezy thighs accompany them, then you'll probably not mind current "dancer" quality.
But I put "dancer" in quotes because to me, DANCING is a physical, and therefore exercise-oriented, activity. Those whom I observe dancing naked, I want to observe as able to dance, as somehow suited to the activity. Their nakedness, and their dancing, are things which should have some bearing on their body type. Woggly waggly hooters aren't for slapping around the barber pole and swinging around patrons' heads like water balloons ... ick.
I really don't think this is just case of "the good old days" always seeming to have been better. About 10-12 years ago, all the talk was of how dancer quality had improved. More good looking young girls were getting into it every year, drawn to the big bucks and less deterred by the stigma due to the mainstreaming of strip clubs. You don't hear that so much anymore.
DandyDan, whether or not the question is overrated depends on your objectives are. Seems to me that if your objective is to get extras without regard to the dancer's looks, intelligence or personality, then dancer quality (eg. looks, intelligence and personality) isn't going to be very important to you. But if you like to sit and watch or sit and have a fun conversation, then looks, intelligence and personality are very important.
Book Guy, I agree, average weight of dancers has increased a great deal. Whether you think that's good or bad is a matter of personal choice. I'm in your camp, dancing is an athletic endeavor and the girls doing it should look somewhat athletic.
"If you're a tit man and just want huge woggly waggliness in giant descending mamms, no matter what kind of wiggly belly or cheezy thighs accompany them, then you'll probably not mind current 'dancer' quality."
I think a good number of customers are happier. They love blubber. A few have said it isn't that they love blubber it is that good looking women are too good for them. :)
Dan, for me the answer is yes, the quality of dancers I'm not getting dances from matters a lot. Even while I'm focusing on the one girl giving me a lapdance, the presence of other attractive options makes my choice of her feel significant and contributes to my experience. That's a what makes it a strip club, IMO, and makes it sizzle - the social setting, including other strippers and customers. If neither of us - me or the lapdancer - have other options, it feels like a static appointment and lacks the element of suspense. I realize I'm alone here in this, just as being less demanding is a common thread in your comments.
Maybe a better question should be, is customer quality declining? I think the answer is yes to that one too, at least from the stripper's point of view. I think there are fewer big spenders and more guys who treat strippers badly. Just a guess on my part.
I just got a chance to watch it. I have to admit, of the eight dancers presented, I considered only two to be of the body-type which I would consider appealing at all, much less ideal for a stripper. I would (I suppose) be accepting of Rene (number four, with the cut-away longer dress) and Carmelita (with the fans) if they were to show up at my local club on stage. The others, I'd slink away to the bar and try to look the other way.
Hammy gammy flabby 1950s gals -- all meat and potatoes. I guess I can stand that look IF the tits match the ass; but what's happened here is that the ass and thighs are about 90% of the girl. Yick.
is actually quite appealing to me, despite the fact that she evidently comes from the exact same era. Perhaps the proportionality between tops and bottoms is what appeals to me. Not sure -- Ms. Howard is certainly "hammy" like the others that I disliked. Am I correct in understanding that she's likely "all natural" since silicone implants were not yet invented when she was filmed?
Great links, Book Guy. I love watching vintage porn as a cultural curiosity. It doesn't turn me on. Taking the long view, I think stripper quality was pretty low until about 20 years ago, although it's unfair to judge by today's standards and tastes. A great source for all kinds of exploitation video from the 50s-70s is this site out of Seattle. No online clips, but their mail order print catalog is great reading. Loving, funny descriptions of all the old stuff. Go and search "60's go go chicks" to see some cool DVD covers:
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I could make the same argument about pizza. I hadn't ordered any pizza from one outlet in over 2 years. It seemed like the quality of order out pizza was declining. The pizza place I didn't order from went out of business or closed down in my town. One important detail I left out of all of that was that a competitor pizza outlet had run a blitz of special pizza coupons all across town with people actually buying the coupon books to get pizzas from them at a much bigger than normal discount. Apparently they did enough damage to the competitor that it drove the competitor out of business. Oh well, similiar story but I have noticed some big strip clubs driving down the business at smaller strip clubs. The dancers go to where they can make the money at. I think of the Platinum Plus clubs in the strip club world as similiar to the Walmart store. They get lots of people and offer discounted dances and make big money in the process and destroy competitors in the process. The dancers and people stop visiting the dying businesses as much.
However if you like Walmart and saving money or the equivalent in the strip club business, it's good for the consumer. I have like an upscale version of Walmart in the strip club business. There are some very hot girls working but they like to charge more. They give me discounts because I'm a regular or repeat customer.
Casualguy, I've always thought that southern clubs had more attractive dancers. They tend to be more polite too, but then so does everyone else. That's pretty true of the Midwest too. Hope I don't offend anyone but it's always been my opinion that the further you get from from the Northeast (where I've always lived) the more civil people are. It's very noticable when you travel a lot. It's also very noticable with strippers, give me a sweet southern girl any day.
Sounds like you're asking for the world. <just teasing> I was at The Trap last night and not a single dancer met your requirements and there was a good number of dancers. :( Sometimes when the food supply changes, then your tastes need to change? NO!!!!! :)
I think even if you went to Tootsies which has hundreds of dancers you'd be lucky to find 3. The reason being is the focus seems to be on "sexy" and not cute at all. And, then the price goes to the stratosphere unless you don't think $25 for 3 minutes is strato land. And, I think for a lot of customers 3 minutes is more than enough time so it is a good deal or they make very excellent money and $25 for 3 minutes is reasonable or even cheap.
Over at Angels I saw a dancer who was just adorable in street clothes without makeup. She was still hot with all the garbage i.e. high heels, makeup, fancy outfit, etc., but I would have been a lot happier just getting her as she came in the door. She even acted better in street clothes--more natural and girlish. The club is just a little too upscale--concern with all types of flash, one of the negatives of inner city--even though it is a dive.
On the other hand, I think there is a natural tendency to overstate how bad it has become and to look back through rose colored glasses. For example, I suspect I am a lot less attracted than I used to be to "seasoned" pro-type strippers who may appear sexy at first glance: tanned with bleached hair, boob job, etc. As a newbie, I included them on the plus side, and they contribute to my memory of the overall quality, although I wouldn't count them as a plus today.
Also, I think it's misleading to base your assessment on the inability to find a replacement for an ATF. That says more about ones personal situation than overall dancer quality. In fact, I think it's folly to set out to look for another dancer who is like your ATF, but maybe that's a separate issue.
In my case and with my looks and at my age, ANY dancer can appeal to me!!
It doesn't take very much to please me, as well as Mr Happy! I'm just your normal 'strip club junky' looking for fun and excitement, whether 'extras' be available or not! JUST GET ME "HARD"!!! I wanna' make sure he still works occassionally!
Professor - Certain standards?? You mean I'm suppose to have standards? LOL
FONDL - Did you lose your ATF? If so, I'll try and help find her, for a finder's fee of course! LOL Ah yes, the massage therapist. Hmmm, now that I think of it, it's time I get back with mine!!! Been a whole week since the last one.
As far as 'general dancer quality', I believe it depends on the type club you visit. Henceforth, if you visit an upscale club, you find prettier dancers. This is not always the case, as locality and economic factors figure in. But, yes, it is easy to conceive that dancers' looks are diminishing.
How about some responses from our 'dancer' members???
Bones, the only standard I expect for you to have is the ability to recognize that "she is a she". I would hate for you to go through "Crying Games" experience... just kidding ! :)
Several years ago at one time at one no touch all air club, I do remember lots of hot 10's in the club. I even remember seeing a couple of 10's every once in a while in my local area. Now most dancers I see just look good but don't really get my heart pumping to any great degree unless they're getting a bit wild with me with some acrobatic stage tipping.
If you can, "...always find someone to be the star of the day anywhere...", then you have just not been to the right clubs. I would bet that all of us here, that frequent clubs, except maybe you, have visited at least one club that we couldn't get out of fast enough! Visit Florida, and I'll point out a couple for you.
http://www.archive.org/details/stripper_…
Jablake, whenever I've been to Brad's Brass, I'd say that about a third of the girls there met my criteria. But maybe that's why I think Brad's is the best club in the country.
Bones, you're welcome, for both the "thank you" and you're sincere offer to help. I'd tell you where my ATF is but you're WAY too horny for her. But if you're ever in the Tampa area and want to get the world's best NONSEXUAL massage, let me know.
Flint, MI (pop. about 125,000) -- TUSCL lists 9 clubs
How can a town this size support 9 clubs? Of course the talent pool is going to be diluted and dancer quality will be down. You will have to search for the good ones.
Kokomo, IN (pop. about 46,000) -- TUSCL lists 6 clubs
Kokomo has one great club and 5 shitty clubs. A town this size can only support one club. Of course the quality of the girls will be spread too thin.
Lansing, MI (pop. about 120,000) -- TUSCL lists 3 clubs
Lansing has roughly the same population has Flint, yet only has one third the number of clubs. And in contrast to Flint, the talent in Lansing is pretty good.
I think the answer seems simple - until some of the under-performing clubs close their doors, there are too many opporunities for average looking dancers to find work.
it always puzzles me that some clubs may have 10 girls working one shift and almost no customers present. Forget about girls, but how can the club survive with little to no customer patronage? While we may think that some clubs should close thier doors and the natural selection should take its course, those clubs are still open. There are got to be some other forces at play.
It seems more difficult in getting BBBJs in the clubs nowadays! Oh shit, WRONG topic!!
I think my point was missed. I think the importance of this question is overrated. It might be true (in fact, I would say it is true for most places) that dancer quality is down from where it used to be, but as a person who goes to strip clubs occasionally, there are times when I go to a club and most of the dancers aren't worth my time, but there is usually somebody who is. Let's say I get a lapdance from this particular dancer. Now, to an individual patron at a specific moment in time, does it really matter whether the quality of the dancers is down from where it used to be, if you got a girl giving you a lapdance at that specific moment? I don't think so. Then again, maybe I demand less than everyone else here.
(Raspa, Robert F. and John Cusack 1990, Psychiatric Implications of Tattoos, American Family Physician. 41: p. 1483)
http://www.av1611.org/tattoos/rebel.html
It's everywhere. My original strip-clubbing experiences in the 1980s were all about getting surrounded by lithe, supple, young-looking girls who had a type of "runner's build" or "gym rat" physique. I just went in and was SURROUNDED by them. (Maybe I was at the right clubs?) Now I spend most of my strip-club time trying to FIND these girls among their co-workers. They used to be about 75%; now they're 5%.
If you don't prefer that type, or actively DISlike that type, then you would not necessarily say that dancer quality is declining, at least not on the basis of that evidence. But if that's what you're looking for, and you find it to be of ever decreasing supply, then by direct correlation the desirability of dancers is indeed declining.
If you're a tit man and just want huge woggly waggliness in giant descending mamms, no matter what kind of wiggly belly or cheezy thighs accompany them, then you'll probably not mind current "dancer" quality.
But I put "dancer" in quotes because to me, DANCING is a physical, and therefore exercise-oriented, activity. Those whom I observe dancing naked, I want to observe as able to dance, as somehow suited to the activity. Their nakedness, and their dancing, are things which should have some bearing on their body type. Woggly waggly hooters aren't for slapping around the barber pole and swinging around patrons' heads like water balloons ... ick.
Book Guy, I agree, average weight of dancers has increased a great deal. Whether you think that's good or bad is a matter of personal choice. I'm in your camp, dancing is an athletic endeavor and the girls doing it should look somewhat athletic.
I think a good number of customers are happier. They love blubber. A few have said it isn't that they love blubber it is that good looking women are too good for them. :)
http://www.archive.org/details/stripper_…
I just got a chance to watch it. I have to admit, of the eight dancers presented, I considered only two to be of the body-type which I would consider appealing at all, much less ideal for a stripper. I would (I suppose) be accepting of Rene (number four, with the cut-away longer dress) and Carmelita (with the fans) if they were to show up at my local club on stage. The others, I'd slink away to the bar and try to look the other way.
Hammy gammy flabby 1950s gals -- all meat and potatoes. I guess I can stand that look IF the tits match the ass; but what's happened here is that the ass and thighs are about 90% of the girl. Yick.
http://www.archive.org/details/stripper_…
is actually quite appealing to me, despite the fact that she evidently comes from the exact same era. Perhaps the proportionality between tops and bottoms is what appeals to me. Not sure -- Ms. Howard is certainly "hammy" like the others that I disliked. Am I correct in understanding that she's likely "all natural" since silicone implants were not yet invented when she was filmed?
http://www.somethingweird.com