No. 1 Complaint About Dancers Other Than Stealing . . .

Sorry, but I can't say that has ever happened to me. Not to say I have never experienced a bad dance - I have. From inexperienced girls, from dancers that grind too hard, and from one girl too drunk to stand up. But I don' think I have ever had a dance from a girl whom I thought was giving a bad dance on purpose. Even the dumbest girls understand the economics of stripping. Poor dances means no repeat customers resulting in less cash.

An experienced dancer, at a low end club, need have only a few nuts fall totally in love with her to understand the wisdom of safety before profit. An inexperienced dancer may be very afraid of a customer falling in love when she's not on the market or she just doesn't care for him.

Profit just isn't the end all be all. If it was, then I'd be spending more money and having more fun. Of course, I'm too selective and if the dancer that I happen to like is in high demand--that happened at The Trap---then the dancer can do whatever and still have customers waiting in line.

That is one reason why I distrust a lot of the black dancers at my favorite club. And I don't want to put a racial divide on it, but it really does seem like it is only the black dancers, who really want to take you to the champagne room for some extracurricular activities. Not all of them, of course, but a lot of them for sure. I've really only had one bad non-black dancer there who purposely danced badly, but that is only one of the problems I have with her.

#1. fat #2. unattractive

Stealing doesn't rate a mention. And I don't complain about bad dances. I just find a girl who gives good dances.

Interesting that stealing doesn't rate a mention for you. Except for losing the services of the dancer where she otherwise does an excellent job it wouldn't merit mention for me either. Unfortunately, even if she just stole small it takes the fun out the dance for me.

#1 - bad attitude, as in being rude to customers and thinking we should throw money at them for doing nothing.

#2 - fat and out of shape

#3 - sits down and makes no effort to hold a conversation

#4 - dumber than a fence post

which in some clubs doesn't leave many left, does it?

FONDL: yeah, you forgot POOR HYGIENE and BAD BREATH.

What is it with the garlic / sulfur breath? Are they all blowing the bouncers right before they come over and talk to me?

Bad attitudes and dumb behavior aren't worthy of a complaint for me because I don't waste a second of time on girls like that. Likewise for BO and bad breath. There's no escaping fat and ugly, however. Just their presence across the room makes my eyeballs complain.

I'll just add "stripper shit".

jablake, I've never had a problem with stealing in any club in all my years of clubbing. I am kind of surprised that you felt it was obvious enough to be excluded -- meaning you obviously considered it to be the most likely complaint to rate #1 -- and then found it odd that nobody mentioned it. Has anyone ever found stealing to be commonplace in stripclubs? I've found it to be more likely in regular bars and esturaunts. I've left a stack of bills, my cell phone and my briefcase (containing laptop, iPod, etc) while I went to the restroom without a second thought. I actually had my briefcase returned to my hotel by a stripper when I was on a trip and foolishly forgot it in a club, nothing missing. I just don't see stealing as a problem.

I'm pretty much in agreement with FONDL for the rest of the complaints.

Hi AbbieNormal,

Glad you don't see stealing as a problem. Because of my reaction to stealing (which could be wrong) I lose otherwise excellent dancers over it. Part of the problem is that I associate it with a prelude to greater confrontation in the future; there may be no correlation with that particular dancer. My interest usually is very strongly in favor of trying to avoid confrontation if the cost of doing so isn't too high.

LOOK BACK: Some of the best advice I ever got was from a cop who told me that it didn't make any difference if I was legally right and morally right. That just didn't make any difference at all. The smart decision, and I had NO IDEA how good the cop's advice was till many many years later, was to walk away or payoff or do whatever it took to avoid the system. At the time I thought it was so strange for a cop to have that attitude, but I figured he knew more about because of his occupation and experience so I did what he said. I still think very kindly of the cop who is probably dead by now because of his sound advice.

jablake, I'd be interested in hearing more about what you consider stealing, and the situation or context where the cops advice came into play. I think very often people take the easy way to avoid "the system".

The stealing can cover a number of areas. The one that seems very common is the overcount of dances. Some of the clubs are set up that way. So you try and reach an agreement with the dancer BEFORE she starts dancing that she will tell when the song ends. Believe it or not the dancers have very different standards, depending on their honesty, of when a song ends. The good ones are very upfront especially if you have an agreement BEFORE she starts dancing. What happens is the dancer will claim she forgot to tell the song had ended and thus you owe her for one or two more songs than you heard. It is setup like this on purpose with the DJ. My solution is to pay and cut her off for future dances no matter how much I liked her.

A truck crashed into my car when I was at a full stop. Fortunately, not only did the trucker confess, but a nice person stopped and told the cop everything. So the cop tells me he doesn't want to write a ticket because it will cause the insurance rates to skyrocket and the Bureau of Financial Responsibility will gets its 2 cents in demanding that at fault or not you will be required to buy more expensive insurance which is a "benefit" to you. It is a "benefit" that is why fault is irrelevant. These weren't the exact words of the cop of course, but he was telling me even though I was at fault I would get SCREWED. 100% correcto mundo!

It was a Georgia case, I believe where the U.S. Supreme said NO, if you want to force somebody to get the insurance which they otherwise wouldn't be required to purchase, then the state had to consider whether the driver in the accident was at fault or not. The state had yapped that it was a "benefit" and thus fault was irrelevant.

So fast forward about 20 years after that Supreme Court holding. Do I get a hearing as to fault? Do I get written findings of fact? Yeah, at the administrative level stating fault is irrelevant because insurance is of course a "benefit." So, we have years of litigation. Can't get the state trial court to provide written findings of fact or much of anything. In fact, 1 day after the petition was filed it was denied without opinion and I received it in the mail (regular first class) not even 24 hours after it was filed--more like 12 hours if that. An appeal took place and an opinion was written and part of the opinion said that I didn't have a right to findings of fact and conclusions of law--in the footnote, I think. So the case goes on and on and even gets into the federal court. Still no finding of fact of conclusions of law (but a note that due process doesn't require findings of facts and conclusions of law). Anyway, the federal judge says the written findings of fact wouldn't apply to a trial judge. Yes, but the Supreme Court said a trial judge would be held to even higher standards. So more litigation and I believe the appeal court reversed in that federal district shouldn't have decided anything. Oh gee, a court not supposed to make a decision. Whatever.

Anyway, it was a very interest case.

Perhaps I could have explained it better, but I just have so little faith in the honesty of the system that it is why bother. It is a FRAUD to me. BTW, my relative who was a practicing attorney at the time was very interested in case, but he lived in New York so I just sent him the garbage as it went back and forth. He's a relative, but he thought I had a damn solid case.

Correction: These weren't the exact words of the cop of course, but he was telling me even though I wasn't at fault I would get SCREWED. 100% correcto mundo!

jablake, sounds like yo got scrwed alright, but it also sounds like the cop screwed you. In virtually all appeals in the US a higher court will NEVER reconsider a finding of fact (Chitown, please correct me) no matter how flawed the process of gathering evidence or estalishing fact. I think this is the greatest flaw in our legal system, other than endless appeals. In any case, it sounds like the cop screwed you, he didn't establish, or wouldn't for some reason, the fact that you were not at fault. I may be wrong, but as I've said, I find your posts difficult to parse.

As for dances, again, I've never had a problem with the count. Stealing is absolutely foreign to my clubbing experience.

Well, what was upsetting was that the state kept repeating that fault was irrelevant. It would make NO difference according to the Bureau of Financial Responsibility even if I was just legally stopped at a red light and someone rear ended me. Fault according to the state was irrelevant.

More upsetting was the courts. I looked thru some 1000 cases---I think it was 900 hundred something. Yes, hard to believe but I did. Almost all the cases were filed by attorneys; 90 per cent or greater? It has been a long time. All but 6 or 7 were denied without opinion. American justice at its finest. Of those 6 or 7 cases that had something besides just DENIED, it was like 1 or at the most 2 that gave real relief. In one case the attorney was pleading with the judge for an opinion because his client had spent so much money. The judge, my judge, btw, did write after DENIED a single case cite, which basically didn't address the issues the attorney had raised.

So this is the vaunted due process??? It is shit. The courts are mainly an extortion rackett for lawyers' fees.

Sorry, if my writing isn't too clear. The subject is very upsetting. And, more than that I just DO NOT believe in the system and I think most people do believe in it. Not too much shared ground there or united we stand bs.

Oh, the attorney for the state kept telling me it would be cheaper just to buy the insurance and besides it was a "benefit." I told her what would be nice is for the court to address the issues that were raised instead of just going DENIED. She, the attorney, says they do that with almost every case! (I knew that from my research.)

I'm also thinking and this is the garbage I'm supposed to support? Those judges make a ton of money and then don't want to do even a little work. You should see how much some of these judges donate to their own campaigns. Really, they don't need a salary---they are more than willing to pay and pay big for their position of power.

Another form of stealing that occurs is the dancer without asking will change the dance from a table dance to a lap dance and then demand the lap dance price. That will get me more pissed than the overcount. Now you may ask how can you as the customer not know the difference between a table dance and a lap dance? Easy. The table dances for most dancers are the same as lap dances except for the price. Why would a customer choose a lap dance then? Usually because he wants to spend more money. Sometimes because he doesn't know any better. Anyway depending on my mood I'm apt to tell the dancer to go to hell over this issue. Or, I'll pay if she did a fantastic job and then won't deal with her in the future.

Another scam involves the special chair price. Well, I almost always sit in the same exact chair besides there is no special chairs with higher prices. There are private rooms, but that is a whole different issue. The special chair price again is more apt to get me pissed than the simple over count.

Believe it or not the scams are often more about testing to see if you're a man than about stealing a few dollars. Yes, I can play the game full tilt and have been rewarded both financially and with better dances by showing that yes I do have balls. Confrontation will not be a problem. Hardly a risk free strategy even if you're very popular at the club and even if you are strong and capable of defending yourself.

Anyway, I'm really not into the he-man routine although yes I've done it. For me the cop or even the attorneys who advise it is not about right or wrong or what the law says, has the right idea. Retreat, pay off, forget about right or wrong and just avoid the confrontation. That isn't the right course for everyone, but even when I've won a confrontation I usually feel that it would have been much better to avoid all that nonsense right from the start.

EXCEPTION: Dancer is in my face way off the board. She is looking for a fight. I figure what the hell if she is that desperate to see if I have any balls we will take it as far as she wants to go. So I explode on her. The whole damn club is now watching this little drama unfold. Maybe because I'm well known and for the most part very well liked at this club things do not spiral out of control. Another dancer tries to stick up for her buddy? That girl gets put in her place instantly and hard. Where are the bouncer and security? Well, not willing to get involved that's where. Now, if they didn't know me so well then the game would change for the worse very quickly.

Bottom line the dancer desperate for a fight became a good favorite of mine. VERY good favorite. She likes men who are willing to take a stand. My trying to avoid trouble was just getting her more pissed and more aggressive.

The dancer went from 1) being a crook, 2)giving horrible dances (yes, I will buy a second if the girl is hot enough and sometimes that works wonders), and 3) being insulting and aggressive, to giving some "free" dances and giving fantastic GFEs. It was intense and a hell of a lot of fun. And, she made a lot more money although that wasn't what she was interested in. Yeah, I know the constant idiocy that for every dancer it is just about the money. Whatever. And, if it was just about the money where is the problem???