Has Inflation hit the Sugar Babies ?

Your post is very timely from my perspective. I have never done SA, but have been seeing a dancer OTC for quite some time in what has become a very SB type of "relationship." She's probably seen me more than she has danced in that time. This weekend I got a text from her about setting up another meet, but it also mentioned she was looking for a "raise." I'm already paying her what I consider top dollar, in fact the most I have ever paid any girl. She's easily a 9, and always has guys lined up to tip her when she does dance, but I'm inclined to just move on if she insists on more $$. Heck, it's not even time for an annual comp review.

I haven't used "Seeking" in a few years, but back then there was no expectation of a payment, until after a meeting and an agreement of what you would pay her and how often, those numbers sound ridiculous to me, maybe Subraman might have a more current opinion on the state of play now.

Well everything has gone up in the past year from corn in the grocery store, to wages, to used cars, stripper VIP rates and I guess now sugar baby rates.

I just laugh it off, I was talking to my in college niece the other day who was bragging about all the raises she’s gotten at her part time job and I thought “you’re still in the same boat because everything you buy just got more expensive.”

Another guy I know who works as a security guard who doesn’t make much money was saying “since they’re raising minimum wage everywhere around me I’m demanding a raise and if they don’t give it to my I’m quitting.” I was thinking “I don’t think it works that way but good luck with that.”

As for your predicament, Warrior, my best guess is she heard other girls in her area are “supposedly” feting that rare or she’s just trying to make up for lost time sitting on the sidelines for the past year.

BTW - did she end up going with you to the hotel or back home empty handed?

I took her home. She wasn't in the mood by then and I didn't want her at that point, even if she said she would do it for 400. The moment was lost. I still had time to hit a strip club.

In my latest review of Club Desire in Providence (went live yesterday), I noted that prices in the VIP seem to be sharply increasing (particularly during the night shifts). And other regulars (like skibum) have confirmed that this is a relatively new phenomena. So, it appears that there's at least some correlation between strippers and sugar babies. That's isn't surprising; there's quite a bit of overlap between those two groups.

Personal opinion ... I think a lot of sex workers are trying to make up for revenue lost in 2020. Another possibility is that the cost of living has gone up sharply and they're feeling the bite just like anyone else. And the cherry on top is always garden-variety greed.

I'll also point out that if you're shooting for 9s, then you're working with a SB demographic that has the highest chance of GPS. But sometimes it's not GPS. Some of the women at that level of youth and good looks really are willing to sift through dozens of guys to find one or two that won't blink at paying $800 to $1,000. And those guys are out there, but it sort of sucks for those of us who aren't those guys.

Warrior, I notice that there sometimes seem to be waves of allowance fluctuations. There are longer term trends where PPM asks go clearly higher or lower for everyone, but also little local variations. Sometimes PPM asks will just inexplicably go up because... well, I dunno why, maybe you're just having bad luck, or maybe there's some influencer on tiktok telling all the Tampa SBs "raise your prices, get that bag" or whatever. But then a month later it's all back to normal. SBs aren't organized the way strippers in a strip club are, but I'd swear sometimes they somehow test PPM levels as a group for a couple of months, and if they don't get it, it goes back to normal a couple of months later.

Anyway, bottom line is, don't panic about a month of getting asked higher numbers, could just be a blip. Maybe right now, consider switching the PPM conversation to before you meet them instead of during.

"Maybe right now, consider switching the PPM conversation to before you meet them instead of during."

Duh.

^ Yeah, probably a good idea. I"m out of practice. But I did have a nice dinner with a very cute girl. And still have my wad of cash in my pocket to live another day. But I think I will start that convo before the meeting next time.

I'm not sure if its inflation or what, but prices here are up too. I don't do the SB thing, so I can't specifically comment on that but ITC/OTC prices are up significantly at most clubs. There was a sharp dip during the peak of pandemic lockdowns, but prices are up significantly higher than pre-pandemic levels.

I chalked it up to pent up demand. I'm hoping as that falls off prices will fall down, but that remains to be seen. "Making up for lost revenue" is entirely possible. It may just be good ol inflation. As mentioned, raises in minimum wage and many low paying jobs have pretty much everyone looking for a raise in pay.

" I'm hoping as that falls off prices will fall down, but that remains to be seen"

I have to say that in the decades I've been doing this, that has never happened, unfortunately. Prices go up, and even if there's a subsequent recession or whatever, they stay right where they were.

Subraman speaks. It’s like The Godfather of Sugarbabies makes a statement and you all should listen.

Just like when JS69 talked about 19 year olds every PL that wants a 19 year old listened, or chackin fanger enthusiasts listen when Juice speaks.

Or Icee on sneakers! All grown men who are all about sneakers, stop and listen

It's a courtesy to give these girls an approximate idea of your budget before the date. That way you're not wasting her time and the date doesn't end with her "almost crying."

And it reminds me of @Warrior's previous thread where a middle-aged stripper was "stunned" (in his words) at not being able to command the price she wanted (because she was just too damn old).

All of this is just common sense -- but maybe he gets a kick out of the power imbalance.

I don’t see it as a power imbalance at all. They have the pussy. That’s pretty damn powerful. Some just have unrealistic extra expectations.

Hey. Do you guys think that the Matt Gaetz story has anything to do with it?

“Extra” was an unintended autofill, but maybe not inappropriate.

@Warrior15

To answer your questions:

Q: Has Inflation hit the Sugar Babies ?

A: YES

“As the U.S. economy comes back to life after a pandemic-driven recession, prices in certain sectors of the economy are rising much more sharply than many expected.

Prices for cars, gasoline, food and housing are all up.”

What it all means comes down to the fact that cost of sugar babies, OTC, ITC, extras etc will go up, and may not come back down.

Q: is someone out there actually paying that much ?

A: YES

Spending by wealthy Americans is likely to tilt the balance of the economy even further toward the well-off and may deepen economic disparities already heightened by the global pandemic.

Wow! $800? Add in hotel costs and other incidentals and the cost could easily go over $1100. Pricey but if she's a nine she just might be getting it.

Thing is, she'll probably get some hungry one time takers but probably little repeat business unless she is big time gfe (most aren't).

Kind of interesting that she could have easily made 500 for a couple hours effort but earned nothing due to greed.

As insane as that price sounds...a nine...that would be tempting but I wouldn't do it.

"It's a courtesy to give these girls an approximate idea of your budget before the date. That way you're not wasting her time and the date doesn't end with her "almost crying.""

The fact that she didn't bring up money beforehand either and then almost cried when you declined makes her seem inexperienced and desperate. She probably has no idea how much most SBs make.

Also, the fact that you described her as being all over you the entire time also seems unusual for a first meeting. If I were looking for a long term SB the first meeting would be very casual with a small gift rather than going straight to bed.

I have had mixed success with SA. Most of the girls are delusional with the absurd amounts they want. They think that everyone on the site is a billionaire who is going to whisk them away on his private jet out yacht. Unfortunately for the SB, the very few guys with that kind of cash and lifestyle are not going to spend it on them! Most guys who troll SA are just looking for a hot young side piece to fuck while they spend their money and lavish lifestyle on the people in their “real life”. I had a reasonably successful SB arrangement for about a year and a half that fell apart when SB started getting jealous of the traveling and lifestyle that I gave to my grown daughters and not her.

They're playing you. They put up a high price hoping that's what they get. Acting offended at a lower offer is just a game. Its to make you think they have a lot of high offers so they won't bother with you. Truth is if that were true they'd just ignore you. Not wait for a counter offer.

Don't put hookers on a pedestal

"Also, the fact that you described her as being all over you the entire time also seems unusual for a first meeting."

I agree. I've had first meetings where we just really click, but "all over me the entire time" sounds a bit like a performance -- it evokes a stripper trying to get a guy to the champagne room, more than a high-$ SB vetting a potential SD. The explanation that fits this best is: she might have been a high-$ escort, doing her thing on SA. There are a lot of escorts on SA, many want higher $ because they already make a decent amount from their clients and are putting in extra time and effort on SA, and they are the most likely to want to do a hard sell and have sex on the first date (they can't abide spending a couple of hours not getting paid).

The offense at the lower $ is real. Among the very worst women on SA -- the escorts who are just feigning being SBs, and the ultra-entitled SBs who learned from tiktok that they should have GPS -- any discussion of her price means you are haggling and "don't value her worth".

Subra, you may be correct. I did ask her about what she did for a living . She vaguely talked about some online eyelash business. I would not doubt if she was a full time sugar baby. And that is how she came across when I attempted to haggle. " You don't think I"m worth that ? "

Never allow anyone to negotiate using a variation of the you don’t value my worth, shut it down immediately or walk, that applies to any negotiation it’s better to remind anyone trying to use that line that it matters not what they think it’s worth it’s all about what the target market is willing to pay.

These are all phrases and tactics taught on both the escort forums (and escorts who participate on escort forums are incredibly angry), and on the GPS tiktok channels. And not just these phrases and tactics -- it is driven into their heads, until it's internalized, that not meeting your requested $ and any attempt at negotiating is a personal insult. 'course, an escort who just spent two hours with someone, putting on a performance, and now realizes she isn't going to get paid, doesn't need any coaching to be outraged and insulted! lol

1. I feel like I know Warrior pretty well now, but I still don’t know where this fucking guy lives, Houston, Nashville, Miami now Tampa—Fuck if I know, this man can be found anywhere in the south.

2. What is ethnicity is this girl? Hair color? I’ve found attractive blonde women on that site to be completely unaffordable. These guys on there must be in a frenzy for them for them to have that kind of GPS I’m seeing them have.

3. I’m finding 300 doesn’t quite have the purchasing power it used too. 200 you get laughed at now, 300 is not a joke offer but a lot of times it’s not may not get it done, I’m like 50/50 with it. Sometimes I have bump it up to 400 to atleast break the ice and then I try to fuck her really really good and I try to bring it back down to 3 next time and usually they are cool with it.

4. I just get this sick feeling going over 500 bucks. For 800 I gotta be getting other stuff too. Changing my fucking Rims, transmission, Im gonna need something else in addition to pussy when we are getting to be that much, FFS.

Another thing I really don’t like hanging or atleast repeating with sugar babies that only have $$$ on their mind. It’s very stripperish/Hookerish. It’s just a turn off for me. I get along best with these innocent girls who if you just give them a rate their comfortable they want the BFE kind of thing with some financial support. My favorite don’t even bring up money cause they just trust me and relax around me cause they know I got them. And it makes the sex way better when I can relax too. As opposed too “Oh wait hold on, now you wanna do anal?” That’ll be $100 extra”

1- My residence in Tennessee. My wife and kids are there. I'm there about a week a month. I have a business in the Tampa area. I'm there at least two weeks a month. Have a condo on the beach there. I started to open a business in Ft Lauderdale that never got off the ground. Met a sugar baby there and kept going to see her. I would move there if I could. I love Las Olas. But long distance is why that ended. I'm originally from Texas. Have an MBA from Houston. Have lots of friends still there and go back to visit often. Lived in Denver for a couple of years also. Worked for large banks for a while and got moved around a lot.

2- Mixed, black, white and native american. Dark hair. LARGE breasts. Wonderful smile, before she started crying.

3- 300-400 is what I remember the range being. I'm willing to do 500 if its' someone I really like and might move to monthly eventually. Not more.

4- 800 to me does imply something else is involved. Is she bringing along a friend? Now for that I might do 800.

I always found it was best to stick to some form of PPM versus monthly

Its just a game. In reality she'll settle for whatever she needs at the moment. Remember who ever fucks her for free can't take care of her so her standards are low. Dont react to her games. Tell her to take it or leave it. Haggling puts portrays you as a bitch

I don't do SBs but I wonder if their mindset may be:

1. SDs/potential-SDs likely have a lot of $$$ saved-up from pandemic non-spending?

2. SDs must be desperate after a long pandemic time w/o much action and are jumping-at-the-bit to get action and willing to overpay?

Hard to know if a SB is genuinely upset at not getting what she thinks she's worth, or if it's just part of her act; could be either - one would assume many of these girls' self-worth is tied up into how much men find them desirable to where the men are willing to thousands to be w/ them - a lot of them may not have a lot to hang-their-hat-on other than what they look like and being desired by men.

I'll admit that I typically find these threads interesting because I've never been able to get the hang of the SB thing. And it's not like it's 3D chess or anything like that. It's just something that eludes me (or I'm a bit inept...).

"Ideal sugar-daddies" are likely few-and-far-between - not only does the guy need to be loaded to be the "ideal SD", but is willing to be an SD; and is willing to give the SB what she wants; plus the SB will have steep-competition for such SDs and she has to hope he doesn't get bored with her.

A lot of inexperienced SBs may not clearly see the gap b/w the "ideal SD" and reality - the SB in question could have gotten a steady stream of reasonable cash perhaps for an extended period of time but chose for the homerun and walked away w/ nothing - but at the end of the day it's her prerogative.

Florida is full of retirees that have less than 15 or 20 years left before they croak, and they have millions in their retirement accounts to be spent. I could see old guys tossing a stack at a young girl for sex. All men will eventually develop prostate cancer at some point if they live long enough. If you want $250-300 for good young trim, jump in the car and go somewhere like Bemidji, Tulsa, Paducah, Texarkana, Farmington, Beckley, etc. $300 in these places goes as far as $600 in Tampa.

A lot of these sugar babies think their pussy is worth the highest offer they receive. The guys legitimately offering $800-1000 per date tend to trophy fuck them and move on to the next baby. If they are truly rich, they can afford to trophy fuck almost every baby on the website, so why not pump 'n' dump them?

You know what I would pay a little more for a one time thing I guess but she ain’t gonna get that repeat money from me. I don’t think I could do 800 though but some are in different financial situations than me.

When we start trying to hypothetical this one, take this into account: I live in what is supposed to be one of the worst areas for SDs. The combination of 1. Many many wealthy men, 2. Many socially awkward men, 3. One of the worst male:female ratios of any big city, all add up to SBs having far more leverage and ability to command high prices here, than almost anywhere else. In most areas, few men wealthy enough to be SDs, plus many many many young women who need financial help = power is far more skewed to the SDs. Tampa is not particularly known as an SB-friendly city.

With all of that in mind: I almost never get asked for $800 PPM. Even the 9s are negotiable below $800. I think I've been asked for $800 or higher twice in the past year, at most.

In short: I don't know what weird thing is going on with Warrior or Tampa, but I'm not seeing it reflected in my area, and this area is about as skewed towards SBs as you can get

For SA, I have had offers of $200 to $300 accepted, but that was a few years ago. In late 2019, I offered an "8" $300, and she just laughed and said that was much less than she would accept....Next. I'm in the Cocoa Beach area.

Monthly allowances in metro Denver in the range of $2K to $3K per month are not all that unusual for girls somewhere in the top 1%. That's enough for an equivalent PPM in the $700 to $800 range 3x per month.

Everyone's different. I've never gone on a meet-and-greet without a few texts, first, to set the stage with an approximate budget. I've also never had sex on the day of the meet-and-greet. I'm also not interested in pump-and-dump sex. All of my long-term arrangements started with a Starbucks date.

Paying for sex isn't rocket science, @Warrior. It's incumbent on you as a worldly senior citizen to set the stage and tell her about your budget; otherwise, you get the kind of drama that you described.

why would anyone expect prices to stay the same as pre pandemic? Lots of girls probably quit the industry because of fears of covid and did not come back. Many want more money because of risks that did not exist before. Supply and demand affect prices like in other markets.

30% of the money in circulation has been printed

Got cut off...

Has been printed in the last year or so. Increased supply of money affects prices.

Why would prices be the same as before? Please educate me...

"Lots of girls probably quit the industry because of fears of covid and did not come back"

48: there's a few interesting things in that sentence. The immediate one is your conjecture that lots of girls left -- that's not what happened. There was a time during the middle of the pandemic that lots of girls seemed to leave, but with extra unemployment support running out, college tuition still there, etc... I have not seen any sign there's fewer girls than there used to be. If anything, it may be the reverse: up until the vaccines became available, many old guys were sitting this out and in my area allowances were down. Right now, allowances remain down a bit vs pre-pandemic highs. I do expect that to change as more SDs who were sitting it out jump back in, and inflation roars to life

The really deep discussion is on this term "industry". You and I might think of it as an industry. Other than the escorts, strippers, and very experienced SBs who are doing this as a job, most SBs I've met don't remotely think of it as an industry. Their experience is not industrialized, and if they decide they don't want to think of themselves as sexworkers, SA makes that easy. It's more like going on Tinder for them: go on the website, make a profile, get lots of male attention and pick, go on "date", discuss allowance, go on more "dates" with that one person. Other than "discuss allowance", and constant attention from johns and scammers, there's no industry, just a website and a financial relationship with one specific person; the decision to have sex with an older man is a huge personal decision, there's no other business concerns or commitments as to a strip club or running an escort business. That's why college girls who don't want to think of themselves as sexworkers are still able to emotionally deal with being an SB. It's why it's being an SB is normalized and glorified by young women on tiktok, whereas those same girls would never run around bragging that they're prostitutes. Girls flow into and out of sugar far, far more easily than they flow into and out of stripping and escorting -- that's just a customer perspective, but that's how I perceive it.

Anyway, a lot of words to say, girls flow into and out of sugar far more easily than stripping, from my perspective. It's not like stripping where, once a lot of girls "leave the industry", it can take years to turn around. On SA, things change in weeks or months.

^. Lots of Sugar wisdom coming out of Subra in those posts.

I think I ran across a few Pro escorts that were using SA. I'm not talking to another group, and trying to do the meet&greet thing that Random suggested. I hope I get different numbers with this group.

I'm NOW talking to another group. Hate auto correct.

Interesting thread turn.

I was trying to do a quick google around but don’t see anything. Is there a way to track # of profiles created, especially if you can specify men vs women profiles, whether university email addresses for registration are being used, etc and ESPECIALLY over time? Probably not but it would be pretty neat.

My eyeball guess is that if these are college students or non-industry then COVID would have caused more to drop out of seeking? I just say this because a lot of young adults moved back home. Once source cited: nbcnews.com

And with parental presence, would be more discomfort with explaining why you’re getting dressed up to go somewhere for a few hours or even possibly overnight. And therefore leaving more who would like to think themselves not a prostitute to leave.

None of what I’m saying above is a statement, it’s a question. I would have assumed that cowboy’s assumption that people left would make sense?

I went down a deep Reddit hole and found a sub-Reddit for high-end escorts where they were talking about the pros and cons of SA (most cons, as I remember). So, they are on there to some degree or another.

nice: number of profiles can be deceiving. For example, a few months into covid, I could run my normal search with my normal parameters, and the number of profiles returned was about the same as usual. This is easiest way to get a basic idea of how many profiles are out there -- run a search and see how many profiles are returned.

However, at this point -- a few months into covid -- once I started really reading the profiles and engaging with SBs, I found an absolutely huge number were "online only" girls, way more than usual. So those girls are not really legit SBs, even though they get returned in your search and make it seem like there's a lot more legit SBs out there than there actually are. Also seemed to be a higher number of escorts than usual, probably moved to SA because their normal business had slowed down. Yet more profiles that are not actual SBs.

So: I don't think the number of profiles actually went down mid-pandemic. But the number of SBs did, what you had was an invasion of online-only girls and escorts. In my area, for my normal search parameters, this has since reversed itself. Perhaps a few more online-only girls than there used to be, but basically business as usual. As many SBs as there ever were. Average PPMs are still down vs pre-pandemic, at least based on how girls respond to what I'll give htem for PPM

To me this all makes sense. Again, the active SBs did not "leave the industry", which implies a major life change. It was more akin to shutting off their Tinder profile. As it got safer, they turned their profiles back on or created new ones, they are still faced with exactly the same financial challenges as they had pre-pandemic, and I would guess there are still fewer SDs out there than there were pre-pandemic relative to the number of SBs who have returned or joined.

(all of this is just speculation, just saying what I observed and what I think might explain it)

Ishmael wrote: "I went down a deep Reddit hole and found a sub-Reddit for high-end escorts where they were talking about the pros and cons of SA (most cons, as I remember).

Lurking on an escort board is sneaky, but a good idea. If I were posting on such a forum I would ask:

(1) Would you devote as much as 2 hrs to an unpaid Starbucks meet-and-greet for the opportunity to snag a good arrangement (assuming you were meeting a complete stranger)?

(2) Would you devote 2 hrs to a meet-and-greet if the meeting spot was, instead, a very nice restaurant and a good meal was the consolation prize if it didn't work out?

I'm betting that not a single escort would waste time with an unpaid Starbucks date. Maybe a nice dinner date might entice a small percentage of escorts to take a chance.

I still maintain that meeting for coffee is the best way to avoid escorts.

I believe that was the main reason why they were largely not on board with SA. They preferred the standard and much quicker ways of vetting a guy (employment info, escort reference, driver's license, etc.). They viewed the meet'n'greets as less time effective and less reliable in terms of deciding if a customer was worth seeing.

Yeah, that sounds logical

I'm on my 2nd SA stint. Neither has been produced anything more than a spreadsheet full of ranked profiles. On the topic at hand, I'm always afraid to talk prices or services over text, which leaves me vulnerable to offering way under (or over) what she's expecting.

Why does not talking prices or services over text leave you vulnerable to offering under or over? Why does not discussing over text cause a problem? And why are you afraid to talk about PPM over text, what do you think will happen to you? This entire post fascinates me Monk! (no actual SB will talk "services", so you're mostly dealing with escorts anyway I imagine)

I'm thinking Lecher is thinking about the possibility of talking to a cop and getting arrested for soliciting.

I'm skeptical that a cop would go get a subpoena to reverse his google voice line, just because he said "I offer $500 PPM". In fact, I don't think texting that is actionable regardless, much less worth a cop's time to get a subpoena to try to hunt him down. Hell, even if he's going about it like a trick and saying "I'll give you $500 for around-the-world and GFE" or whatever, I don't think it's actionable. But if he just avoids the dollars-for-services discussion... well, never heard of a bust, don't even think it's actionable to just send the text, much less a cop subpoena'ing his google voice line

I still don' understand why it leaves him vulnerable though. Because he names the number in person instead? What if she's an undercover cop? I dunno, it's all confusing to me lol

Maybe @Monk is concerned she'll turn him (and his texts) over to the Seeking.com police?

Death by bunga bunga.

NOW I finally understand the concern

The thing about sugaring is the market is way more like normal dating compared to other forms of sex work. Sure some of them mostly care about getting the highest PPM but I think most care way more about what you look like, personality, charisma, etc. You have to meet whatever bar of fuckability they have. That means it's pretty hard for us to make comparisons. I have gotten to know a few other SDs in my area and we have pretty wildly different experiences where some girls will ignore one guy but reply to another and vice versa.

If all you're getting is high ppm offers it's time to work on your profile, pics, hit the gym. Even just being cool and fun to talk to will get you pretty far. But past that I generally never talk PPM and have never had to really negotiate. I think some of you guys doing talking "services and rates" are maybe going about this a lot different way.

"I think some of you guys doing talking "services and rates" are maybe going about this a lot different way."

Right. As soon as someone starts talking about services and rates, I know they're just on SA looking for an escort -- and if they're not, they're acting like a john, and using john terms, so that's who they're more likely to find. Which is totally fine, do what makes you happy man. But the real fun comes when you go native on being an SD and getting actual SBs.

@subra The reason I don't throw a number out on the site or over text is because I'm afraid of scaring away the true SB's who don't want to think of themselves as whores as they're actively whoring themselves out, but also because I fear creating a digital record of myself soliciting. If you tell me the latter is not really an issue, maybe I'll stop worrying about it.

The reason not discussing specifics online creates an issue is that you don't get the feedback necessary to form an accurate idea of the going rates in your area. Feel free to PM all the things I'm doing wrong and how I could do better; I haven't had really any success, and it seems you have.

I don't ever discuss amounts on SA. They will ban you if they catch you. They dont' want the digital record of soliciting. That is why I get a text number fairly soon so you can negotiate via text. Is there is digital record there, yes, but your phone company doesn't care.

@LM I’m pretty sure you’re treating these gals as if it’s a transaction I think it’s better to treat it as a pickup I think most woman respond better to a guy trying to impress them rather than a guy trying to buy them. What you should know is these girls think of themselves as dating rather than fucking, you need to actually get them to enjoy your company.

"@subra The reason I don't throw a number out on the site or over text is because I'm afraid of scaring away the true SB's who don't want to think of themselves as whores"

LM, I think you have the right idea, flawed execution. Right idea: don't treat her like a whore. Flawed execution: the only thing the girls hate more than being treated like a whore, is having sex with a scammer "salt daddy" who has no intention of paying her. IME 90% of allowance negotiation happens over text. If you take 1000 guys who refuse to discuss allowance over text, 999 are going to be scammer salt daddies or PUAs. The SBs have no idea you're the remaining one guy. The SBs won't get scared away if you bring up allowance, as long as you don't behave like a trick when you do it (e.g. refer to it as rates or services).

"but also because I fear creating a digital record of myself soliciting."

My read is that this is incredibly far-fetched. Like I said, you think even if you're talking to an undercover (and undercover SBs are practically unheard of), you think they're going to subpoena google to get your google voice line, all to hit you up on a minor misdemeanor? And in most cities/states, just offering $ for sex over text isn't even enough for a bust without an act of furtherance. AND, you're not going to be offering $ for sex anyway -- you're going to be offering $400 for PPM (or whatever) without any mention of sex or services, and then arrange a platonic M&G.

Anyway, the #1 thing to put an SB at ease is to bring up allowance and give her a number she's happy with. Really really tough to gain trust otherwise. And now I see why you're at a disadvantage -- you're not giving allowance numbers, so you can't see if girls are accepting or rejecting those #s

Thanks, Subra! Does it matter if you have face pics or full body pics (I'm fat)? I have neither.

Have at least a full body pic. Some SBs will entertain SDs who don't have any pics at all, but many don't

OK. I know you guys were worried about me. I've been very busy this week. ( Not with work though ). Got back on the site and met another group. Changed my tactics because of suggestions here. I have had 3 dates this past week. Did the meet&greet thing and took Random's idea of something low key on the initial meet. One was a lite lunch, another was drinks, and one was dinner at a very moderate restaurant. She picked it. So the initial meeting didn't cost me much and my time was a lot more efficient . First girl was a 9.5 . we ended up going to a a hotel for $500. She's coming over to my condo next week for a second date. 2nd girl wanted to immediately go to an exclusive monthly arrangement during our lunch date. I thought that was a little quick. I guess I"m that charming. :-). The dinner date wanted to see my condo right away. When I started to ask her how much at dinner, she did something I have never had a SB do. She said you pay me whatever you think I"m worth afterward. I could have really taken advantage of her but I didn't. I gave her $400. She's already texting me to see when we can meet again.

I just happened to run into some escorts last week that were using SA to market. Looks like inflation has hit the SB market, but not near as much as I had feared. Life is GOOD again. !

I'm not sure how smart I am. I'm just a horny, persistent monger. And I am pretty lucky, I guess.

So did you bang all 3?

Are you planning to date all 3?

Yeah awesome man this shit can really good sometimes.

I did two of them. Not the one that immediately wanted the long term arrangement. I thought it was weird for her to bring it up that quickly. I have 2nd dates planned with the other two. My goal is to find one girl to have an exclusive relationship with. That's what I had before so I'll date around until I find the connection that I want. The cost of this dating around is kinda high. The cost of having one long term arrangement is actually very economical .

No doubt about it, owning a custom home or a beach condo is a terrific asset for sugaring. Sure beats the combination of a recent-model Mercedes lease and a dilapidated apartment in the city.

A common theme in all your posts about sugaring, @Warrior, is that you seem obsessed with getting a good deal. Yet it appears that you can easily afford to pay more, the money itself likely insignificant. For example, rather than driving your previous date home crying, would it have made much difference to pay $800 v. $600? And isn't it a little unusual for someone to engage in both higher-end sugaring and TJ brothels? Curious about the psychology, and why getting a good deal is so important to you?

@JohnSmith was the ultimate SD, paying $1000 per meeting plus tropical vacations plus shopping trips. You could tell from his 3000-word posts (bordered on erotic literature) that the money was the last thing on his mind.

BTW, many of these girls are looking for "exclusive monthly arrangements" to avoid working menial jobs like retail while going to school. The "exclusive" part can be a logical strategy to avoid getting an STD. Many sugar couples exchange STD panels these days. It doesn't necessarily mean they're infatuated with you.

I'm also curious how you plan to juggle the three girls, all of whom are interested in "getting the job." Do you need to give all three a few romps to decide on the winner? Or do you enjoy the attention of having them fight over you?

Final point, I don't think SA is overrun with escorts, and even if I'm wrong, insisting on one platonic date probably eliminates most of them.

"bordering" not "bordered"

Random, I find it humorous that you really are trying hard to insult me.

Am I looking for a "good deal" ? Of course I am. Why should I pay more for a Big Mac just because I can ? Probably why I have accumulated what I have. I don't pay above market for anything.

Yes, I enjoy mongering in several different ways. I haven't been to TJ in almost two years. That matches up about with about the time I was with my other girl. I'm going again in a week or so. If I get into another relationship, I probably will not go back again while that arrangement is going on.

And enjoying the sex with someone is a criteria for picking the girl. I want to have enjoy sex with who I enter into a relationship with. THat is actually a very important variable in who I choose. Of course it is. So do these girls know they are on audition during our initial dates ? Yes, they do. I"m probably having very good sex right now because of that. I"m sorry if that upsets you. I"m having fun right now.

So let's see how you attempt to insult me now.

There's nothing there that should be insulting. It's a matter of taste and a guess you're closer to Robert Kraft than @JohnSmith.

It's not my style to lead on three girls at once. But that's probably a minority opinion.