Has Inflation hit the Sugar Babies ?
Warrior15
Anywhere there are Titties.
I recently ended a relationship with one sugar baby that I had for about a year and a half. I've logged onto Seeking.com during that time, but I didn't actively look for new dates. But now that I'm so called unattached, I am back to answering messages and playing the game. There are lot of very attractive girls on the site, so there is not a lack of available targets. I liked the idea of having a long term arrangement so I would like to find another. But at first you have to do a lot of PPMs to find that right girl. PPM means pay per meeting. Sugar babes call it that so they don't feel like an escort. They refer to the money you give them monthly as an allowance.
Last year when I was out meeting new girls, the cost of a PPM in my area was 300-400. Some girls wanted 500 but that was rare. Now, I'm running into girls that want 700-800. Now part of that might be that I"m really going after the cream of the crop. I'm only talking to the real lookers. Maybe I wasn't so picky last year. But what is causing these girls to ask so much ? Is it Covid related ? Is there some Influencer out there telling these girls to up their price ?
And Sugar Babies are not good at negotiations. A stripper is doing business. She almost expects guys to try to negotiate her cost. A sugar baby gets offended when you aren't willing and excited to give them what they want. Last night, I had dinner with a 9. We had a great time but didn't talk money until the end of the evening. She was all over me the entire time and was ready to go back to my hotel room. She told me her number was 800. I was trying to be very diplomatic in my attempt to bring that number down. In a matter of seconds, she went from wanting to jump my bones to immediately wanting to go home. She was almost crying. And I didn't even say No to the 800. I was just trying to explain what I had paid in the past. She didn't want to hear it.
I would not have paid 800., even if she didn't get upset. But is someone out there actually paying that much ? I'm not talking New York or Las Vegas. I"m in Tampa.
Last year when I was out meeting new girls, the cost of a PPM in my area was 300-400. Some girls wanted 500 but that was rare. Now, I'm running into girls that want 700-800. Now part of that might be that I"m really going after the cream of the crop. I'm only talking to the real lookers. Maybe I wasn't so picky last year. But what is causing these girls to ask so much ? Is it Covid related ? Is there some Influencer out there telling these girls to up their price ?
And Sugar Babies are not good at negotiations. A stripper is doing business. She almost expects guys to try to negotiate her cost. A sugar baby gets offended when you aren't willing and excited to give them what they want. Last night, I had dinner with a 9. We had a great time but didn't talk money until the end of the evening. She was all over me the entire time and was ready to go back to my hotel room. She told me her number was 800. I was trying to be very diplomatic in my attempt to bring that number down. In a matter of seconds, she went from wanting to jump my bones to immediately wanting to go home. She was almost crying. And I didn't even say No to the 800. I was just trying to explain what I had paid in the past. She didn't want to hear it.
I would not have paid 800., even if she didn't get upset. But is someone out there actually paying that much ? I'm not talking New York or Las Vegas. I"m in Tampa.
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I just laugh it off, I was talking to my in college niece the other day who was bragging about all the raises she’s gotten at her part time job and I thought “you’re still in the same boat because everything you buy just got more expensive.”
Another guy I know who works as a security guard who doesn’t make much money was saying “since they’re raising minimum wage everywhere around me I’m demanding a raise and if they don’t give it to my I’m quitting.” I was thinking “I don’t think it works that way but good luck with that.”
As for your predicament, Warrior, my best guess is she heard other girls in her area are “supposedly” feting that rare or she’s just trying to make up for lost time sitting on the sidelines for the past year.
BTW - did she end up going with you to the hotel or back home empty handed?
Personal opinion ... I think a lot of sex workers are trying to make up for revenue lost in 2020. Another possibility is that the cost of living has gone up sharply and they're feeling the bite just like anyone else. And the cherry on top is always garden-variety greed.
I'll also point out that if you're shooting for 9s, then you're working with a SB demographic that has the highest chance of GPS. But sometimes it's not GPS. Some of the women at that level of youth and good looks really are willing to sift through dozens of guys to find one or two that won't blink at paying $800 to $1,000. And those guys are out there, but it sort of sucks for those of us who aren't those guys.
Anyway, bottom line is, don't panic about a month of getting asked higher numbers, could just be a blip. Maybe right now, consider switching the PPM conversation to before you meet them instead of during.
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Duh.
I chalked it up to pent up demand. I'm hoping as that falls off prices will fall down, but that remains to be seen. "Making up for lost revenue" is entirely possible. It may just be good ol inflation. As mentioned, raises in minimum wage and many low paying jobs have pretty much everyone looking for a raise in pay.
I have to say that in the decades I've been doing this, that has never happened, unfortunately. Prices go up, and even if there's a subsequent recession or whatever, they stay right where they were.
Just like when JS69 talked about 19 year olds every PL that wants a 19 year old listened, or chackin fanger enthusiasts listen when Juice speaks.
And it reminds me of @Warrior's previous thread where a middle-aged stripper was "stunned" (in his words) at not being able to command the price she wanted (because she was just too damn old).
All of this is just common sense -- but maybe he gets a kick out of the power imbalance.
To answer your questions:
Q: Has Inflation hit the Sugar Babies ?
A: YES
“As the U.S. economy comes back to life after a pandemic-driven recession, prices in certain sectors of the economy are rising much more sharply than many expected.
Prices for cars, gasoline, food and housing are all up.”
What it all means comes down to the fact that cost of sugar babies, OTC, ITC, extras etc will go up, and may not come back down.
Q: is someone out there actually paying that much ?
A: YES
Spending by wealthy Americans is likely to tilt the balance of the economy even further toward the well-off and may deepen economic disparities already heightened by the global pandemic.
Thing is, she'll probably get some hungry one time takers but probably little repeat business unless she is big time gfe (most aren't).
Kind of interesting that she could have easily made 500 for a couple hours effort but earned nothing due to greed.
As insane as that price sounds...a nine...that would be tempting but I wouldn't do it.
The fact that she didn't bring up money beforehand either and then almost cried when you declined makes her seem inexperienced and desperate. She probably has no idea how much most SBs make.
Don't put hookers on a pedestal
I agree. I've had first meetings where we just really click, but "all over me the entire time" sounds a bit like a performance -- it evokes a stripper trying to get a guy to the champagne room, more than a high-$ SB vetting a potential SD. The explanation that fits this best is: she might have been a high-$ escort, doing her thing on SA. There are a lot of escorts on SA, many want higher $ because they already make a decent amount from their clients and are putting in extra time and effort on SA, and they are the most likely to want to do a hard sell and have sex on the first date (they can't abide spending a couple of hours not getting paid).
The offense at the lower $ is real. Among the very worst women on SA -- the escorts who are just feigning being SBs, and the ultra-entitled SBs who learned from tiktok that they should have GPS -- any discussion of her price means you are haggling and "don't value her worth".
2. What is ethnicity is this girl? Hair color? I’ve found attractive blonde women on that site to be completely unaffordable. These guys on there must be in a frenzy for them for them to have that kind of GPS I’m seeing them have.
3. I’m finding 300 doesn’t quite have the purchasing power it used too. 200 you get laughed at now, 300 is not a joke offer but a lot of times it’s not may not get it done, I’m like 50/50 with it. Sometimes I have bump it up to 400 to atleast break the ice and then I try to fuck her really really good and I try to bring it back down to 3 next time and usually they are cool with it.
4. I just get this sick feeling going over 500 bucks. For 800 I gotta be getting other stuff too. Changing my fucking Rims, transmission, Im gonna need something else in addition to pussy when we are getting to be that much, FFS.
2- Mixed, black, white and native american. Dark hair. LARGE breasts. Wonderful smile, before she started crying.
3- 300-400 is what I remember the range being. I'm willing to do 500 if its' someone I really like and might move to monthly eventually. Not more.
4- 800 to me does imply something else is involved. Is she bringing along a friend? Now for that I might do 800.
1) SDs/potential-SDs likely have a lot of $$$ saved-up from pandemic non-spending?
2) SDs must be desperate after a long pandemic time w/o much action and are jumping-at-the-bit to get action and willing to overpay?
Hard to know if a SB is genuinely upset at not getting what she thinks she's worth, or if it's just part of her act; could be either - one would assume many of these girls' self-worth is tied up into how much men find them desirable to where the men are willing to thousands to be w/ them - a lot of them may not have a lot to hang-their-hat-on other than what they look like and being desired by men.
A lot of inexperienced SBs may not clearly see the gap b/w the "ideal SD" and reality - the SB in question could have gotten a steady stream of reasonable cash perhaps for an extended period of time but chose for the homerun and walked away w/ nothing - but at the end of the day it's her prerogative.
A lot of these sugar babies think their pussy is worth the highest offer they receive. The guys legitimately offering $800-1000 per date tend to trophy fuck them and move on to the next baby. If they are truly rich, they can afford to trophy fuck almost every baby on the website, so why not pump 'n' dump them?
With all of that in mind: I almost never get asked for $800 PPM. Even the 9s are negotiable below $800. I think I've been asked for $800 or higher twice in the past year, at most.
In short: I don't know what weird thing is going on with Warrior or Tampa, but I'm not seeing it reflected in my area, and this area is about as skewed towards SBs as you can get
In late 2019, I offered an "8" $300, and she just laughed and said that was much less than she would accept....Next.
I'm in the Cocoa Beach area.
Everyone's different. I've never gone on a meet-and-greet without a few texts, first, to set the stage with an approximate budget. I've also never had sex on the day of the meet-and-greet. I'm also not interested in pump-and-dump sex. All of my long-term arrangements started with a Starbucks date.
Paying for sex isn't rocket science, @Warrior. It's incumbent on you as a worldly senior citizen to set the stage and tell her about your budget; otherwise, you get the kind of drama that you described.
30% of the money in circulation has been printed
Has been printed in the last year or so. Increased supply of money affects prices.
Why would prices be the same as before? Please educate me...
48: there's a few interesting things in that sentence. The immediate one is your conjecture that lots of girls left -- that's not what happened. There was a time during the middle of the pandemic that lots of girls seemed to leave, but with extra unemployment support running out, college tuition still there, etc... I have not seen any sign there's fewer girls than there used to be. If anything, it may be the reverse: up until the vaccines became available, many old guys were sitting this out and in my area allowances were down. Right now, allowances remain down a bit vs pre-pandemic highs. I do expect that to change as more SDs who were sitting it out jump back in, and inflation roars to life
Anyway, a lot of words to say, girls flow into and out of sugar far more easily than stripping, from my perspective. It's not like stripping where, once a lot of girls "leave the industry", it can take years to turn around. On SA, things change in weeks or months.
I was trying to do a quick google around but don’t see anything. Is there a way to track # of profiles created, especially if you can specify men vs women profiles, whether university email addresses for registration are being used, etc and ESPECIALLY over time? Probably not but it would be pretty neat.
My eyeball guess is that if these are college students or non-industry then COVID would have caused more to drop out of seeking? I just say this because a lot of young adults moved back home.
Once source cited:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/you…
And with parental presence, would be more discomfort with explaining why you’re getting dressed up to go somewhere for a few hours or even possibly overnight. And therefore leaving more who would like to think themselves ~not a prostitute~ to leave.
None of what I’m saying above is a statement, it’s a question. I would have assumed that cowboy’s assumption that people left would make sense?
However, at this point -- a few months into covid -- once I started really reading the profiles and engaging with SBs, I found an absolutely huge number were "online only" girls, way more than usual. So those girls are not really legit SBs, even though they get returned in your search and make it seem like there's a lot more legit SBs out there than there actually are. Also seemed to be a higher number of escorts than usual, probably moved to SA because their normal business had slowed down. Yet more profiles that are not actual SBs.
So: I don't think the number of profiles actually went down mid-pandemic. But the number of SBs did, what you had was an invasion of online-only girls and escorts. In my area, for my normal search parameters, this has since reversed itself. Perhaps a few more online-only girls than there used to be, but basically business as usual. As many SBs as there ever were. Average PPMs are still down vs pre-pandemic, at least based on how girls respond to what I'll give htem for PPM
To me this all makes sense. Again, the active SBs did not "leave the industry", which implies a major life change. It was more akin to shutting off their Tinder profile. As it got safer, they turned their profiles back on or created new ones, they are still faced with exactly the same financial challenges as they had pre-pandemic, and I would guess there are still fewer SDs out there than there were pre-pandemic relative to the number of SBs who have returned or joined.
Ishmael wrote: "I went down a deep Reddit hole and found a sub-Reddit for high-end escorts where they were talking about the pros and cons of SA (most cons, as I remember).
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Lurking on an escort board is sneaky, but a good idea. If I were posting on such a forum I would ask:
(1) Would you devote as much as 2 hrs to an unpaid Starbucks meet-and-greet for the opportunity to snag a good arrangement (assuming you were meeting a complete stranger)?
(2) Would you devote 2 hrs to a meet-and-greet if the meeting spot was, instead, a very nice restaurant and a good meal was the consolation prize if it didn't work out?
I'm betting that not a single escort would waste time with an unpaid Starbucks date. Maybe a nice dinner date might entice a small percentage of escorts to take a chance.
I still maintain that meeting for coffee is the best way to avoid escorts.
I still don' understand why it leaves him vulnerable though. Because he names the number in person instead? What if she's an undercover cop? I dunno, it's all confusing to me lol
NOW I finally understand the concern
If all you're getting is high ppm offers it's time to work on your profile, pics, hit the gym. Even just being cool and fun to talk to will get you pretty far. But past that I generally never talk PPM and have never had to really negotiate. I think some of you guys doing talking "services and rates" are maybe going about this a lot different way.
Right. As soon as someone starts talking about services and rates, I know they're just on SA looking for an escort -- and if they're not, they're acting like a john, and using john terms, so that's who they're more likely to find. Which is totally fine, do what makes you happy man. But the real fun comes when you go native on being an SD and getting actual SBs.
The reason not discussing specifics online creates an issue is that you don't get the feedback necessary to form an accurate idea of the going rates in your area. Feel free to PM all the things I'm doing wrong and how I could do better; I haven't had really any success, and it seems you have.
I’m pretty sure you’re treating these gals as if it’s a transaction I think it’s better to treat it as a pickup I think most woman respond better to a guy trying to impress them rather than a guy trying to buy them. What you should know is these girls think of themselves as dating rather than fucking, you need to actually get them to enjoy your company.
LM, I think you have the right idea, flawed execution. Right idea: don't treat her like a whore. Flawed execution: the only thing the girls hate more than being treated like a whore, is having sex with a scammer "salt daddy" who has no intention of paying her. IME 90% of allowance negotiation happens over text. If you take 1000 guys who refuse to discuss allowance over text, 999 are going to be scammer salt daddies or PUAs. The SBs have no idea you're the remaining one guy. The SBs won't get scared away if you bring up allowance, as long as you don't behave like a trick when you do it (e.g. refer to it as rates or services).
"but also because I fear creating a digital record of myself soliciting."
My read is that this is incredibly far-fetched. Like I said, you think even if you're talking to an undercover (and undercover SBs are practically unheard of), you think they're going to subpoena google to get your google voice line, all to hit you up on a minor misdemeanor? And in most cities/states, just offering $ for sex over text isn't even enough for a bust without an act of furtherance. AND, you're not going to be offering $ for sex anyway -- you're going to be offering $400 for PPM (or whatever) without any mention of sex or services, and then arrange a platonic M&G.
Anyway, the #1 thing to put an SB at ease is to bring up allowance and give her a number she's happy with. Really really tough to gain trust otherwise. And now I see why you're at a disadvantage -- you're not giving allowance numbers, so you can't see if girls are accepting or rejecting those #s
I just happened to run into some escorts last week that were using SA to market. Looks like inflation has hit the SB market, but not near as much as I had feared. Life is GOOD again. !
Are you planning to date all 3?
A common theme in all your posts about sugaring, @Warrior, is that you seem obsessed with getting a good deal. Yet it appears that you can easily afford to pay more, the money itself likely insignificant. For example, rather than driving your previous date home crying, would it have made much difference to pay $800 v. $600? And isn't it a little unusual for someone to engage in both higher-end sugaring and TJ brothels? Curious about the psychology, and why getting a good deal is so important to you?
@JohnSmith was the ultimate SD, paying $1000 per meeting plus tropical vacations plus shopping trips. You could tell from his 3000-word posts (bordered on erotic literature) that the money was the last thing on his mind.
BTW, many of these girls are looking for "exclusive monthly arrangements" to avoid working menial jobs like retail while going to school. The "exclusive" part can be a logical strategy to avoid getting an STD. Many sugar couples exchange STD panels these days. It doesn't necessarily mean they're infatuated with you.
I'm also curious how you plan to juggle the three girls, all of whom are interested in "getting the job." Do you need to give all three a few romps to decide on the winner? Or do you enjoy the attention of having them fight over you?
Final point, I don't think SA is overrun with escorts, and even if I'm wrong, insisting on one platonic date probably eliminates most of them.
Am I looking for a "good deal" ? Of course I am. Why should I pay more for a Big Mac just because I can ? Probably why I have accumulated what I have. I don't pay above market for anything.
Yes, I enjoy mongering in several different ways. I haven't been to TJ in almost two years. That matches up about with about the time I was with my other girl. I'm going again in a week or so. If I get into another relationship, I probably will not go back again while that arrangement is going on.
And enjoying the sex with someone is a criteria for picking the girl. I want to have enjoy sex with who I enter into a relationship with. THat is actually a very important variable in who I choose. Of course it is. So do these girls know they are on audition during our initial dates ? Yes, they do. I"m probably having very good sex right now because of that. I"m sorry if that upsets you. I"m having fun right now.
So let's see how you attempt to insult me now.
It's not my style to lead on three girls at once. But that's probably a minority opinion.