Dancers in HEAT
David9999
This has been referred to on the Pink site among others. However being females, they (not all of course, but many women) simply don't get the implications.
Obviously men appreciate (comparatively) authentic horniness in females instead of the fake kind. A horny dancer gives a better dance and that translates into more dances and better tips. Most chicks around Day 14 (within a 3 to 4 day zone) of the cycle (1st day as Day 0) - are simply hornier than normal, and if you happen to find out their clock - you will do much better in a Strip Club, or wherever else it might matter. For whatever reason, I've noticed many women seem to be in denial that they can be in any kind of heat similar to the way other animals are. It can however be to your benefit because some will even attribute the increased wetness level they might be experiencing with you, to some kind of romance thing - even after you've explained to them that many chicks would actually consider f.cking a telephone pole at that time of month.
http://sciencenow.sciencemag.org/cgi/con…
In a particularly stimulating study, researchers have found that lap dancers--women who work in strip joints and, for cash, gyrate in the laps of seated men--earn more when they are in the fertile phase of their menstrual cycle. The finding suggests that women subtly signal when they are most fertile, although just how they do it is not clear.
Women, unlike many mammals, don't come into heat or estrus, a state of obvious fertility that attracts potential mates. Common wisdom has it that estrus was lost as humans evolved. The notion is that women evolved "concealed ovulation" along with around-the-month sexual receptivity the better to manipulate males by keeping them in the dark, says Geoffrey Miller, an evolutionary psychologist at the University of New Mexico in Albuquerque. But now Miller and colleagues have found evidence that a woman's state of fertility may not be so secret after all.
The researchers used ads and flyers to sign up 18 lap dancers from local clubs. Each woman was asked to log on to a Web site and report her work hours, tips, and when she was menstruating. Lap dancers generally work 5-hour shifts with 18 or so 3-minute performances per shift. They average about $14 per "dance"--all of which is called a "tip" because it is illegal to pay for sex in New Mexico.
Over a 60-day period, the researchers collected data from 5300 lap dances. They divided the answers according to whether the dancers were in the menstrual phase, the high-fertility estrous phase, or the luteal phase. The result, as they report online this week in the journal Evolution and Human Behavior: Of the 11 women with normal menstrual cycles, those in the estrous phase pulled in about $70 an hour--compared with $50 for those in the luteal phase, and only $35 an hour for those who were menstruating. The other seven women were on birth control pills. They earned less across the board, and there was no peaking at the estrous phase.
The numbers suggest that men can tell when a woman is most fertile, although the message seems to be conveyed by "subtle behavioral signals" that evade conscious detection, the authors say. They add that the study couldn't identify whether it is scent or other physical changes that cue the men in, but they don't think it's anything obvious such as type of dance moves or "conversational content."
Evolutionary psychologist Karl Grammer of the Ludwig Boltzmann Institute for Urban Ethology in Vienna says the result fits with his findings that it's possible to detect ovulation through the effect of raised levels of estrogens on the way women walk and dance. "It is highly possible that estrogen modulates motion abilities," says Grammer, in which case "it seems to be most likely that body motion--and not pheromones--is the information carrier."
Obviously men appreciate (comparatively) authentic horniness in females instead of the fake kind. A horny dancer gives a better dance and that translates into more dances and better tips. Most chicks around Day 14 (within a 3 to 4 day zone) of the cycle (1st day as Day 0) - are simply hornier than normal, and if you happen to find out their clock - you will do much better in a Strip Club, or wherever else it might matter. For whatever reason, I've noticed many women seem to be in denial that they can be in any kind of heat similar to the way other animals are. It can however be to your benefit because some will even attribute the increased wetness level they might be experiencing with you, to some kind of romance thing - even after you've explained to them that many chicks would actually consider f.cking a telephone pole at that time of month.
http://sciencenow.sciencemag.org/cgi/con…
In a particularly stimulating study, researchers have found that lap dancers--women who work in strip joints and, for cash, gyrate in the laps of seated men--earn more when they are in the fertile phase of their menstrual cycle. The finding suggests that women subtly signal when they are most fertile, although just how they do it is not clear.
Women, unlike many mammals, don't come into heat or estrus, a state of obvious fertility that attracts potential mates. Common wisdom has it that estrus was lost as humans evolved. The notion is that women evolved "concealed ovulation" along with around-the-month sexual receptivity the better to manipulate males by keeping them in the dark, says Geoffrey Miller, an evolutionary psychologist at the University of New Mexico in Albuquerque. But now Miller and colleagues have found evidence that a woman's state of fertility may not be so secret after all.
The researchers used ads and flyers to sign up 18 lap dancers from local clubs. Each woman was asked to log on to a Web site and report her work hours, tips, and when she was menstruating. Lap dancers generally work 5-hour shifts with 18 or so 3-minute performances per shift. They average about $14 per "dance"--all of which is called a "tip" because it is illegal to pay for sex in New Mexico.
Over a 60-day period, the researchers collected data from 5300 lap dances. They divided the answers according to whether the dancers were in the menstrual phase, the high-fertility estrous phase, or the luteal phase. The result, as they report online this week in the journal Evolution and Human Behavior: Of the 11 women with normal menstrual cycles, those in the estrous phase pulled in about $70 an hour--compared with $50 for those in the luteal phase, and only $35 an hour for those who were menstruating. The other seven women were on birth control pills. They earned less across the board, and there was no peaking at the estrous phase.
The numbers suggest that men can tell when a woman is most fertile, although the message seems to be conveyed by "subtle behavioral signals" that evade conscious detection, the authors say. They add that the study couldn't identify whether it is scent or other physical changes that cue the men in, but they don't think it's anything obvious such as type of dance moves or "conversational content."
Evolutionary psychologist Karl Grammer of the Ludwig Boltzmann Institute for Urban Ethology in Vienna says the result fits with his findings that it's possible to detect ovulation through the effect of raised levels of estrogens on the way women walk and dance. "It is highly possible that estrogen modulates motion abilities," says Grammer, in which case "it seems to be most likely that body motion--and not pheromones--is the information carrier."
26 comments
Good post. :)
However, lap dances are NOT sex, so whether you are paying, or "tipping" is irrelevant. No baby has ever EVER been conceived by performing a lap dance. What might happen IN CONJUNCTION WITH a lap dance is another matter entirely. Some places have bouncers, "housemothers", cameras and even hidden microphones to try to prevent anything remotely resembling "sex" from occuring during a lap dance.
As far as I'm aware the term "sexual act" as defined in most juridictions in the United States does not necessarily relate to possibility of conception, it usually relates to penetration of various cavities in the body or in some cases orgasms induced by 3rd parties with or without penetration
Note as males most of us freely admit our connection to animals, and while we don't always act upon it, we certainly will admit the desire.
You have a stronger desire to turn someone on, wanting to make them want you from across the room, it just shows...
It is a common sense issue, its the make up of the human female body..
when I am getting laid enough at home it translates into more money at work too... I am happier, smile more, and just feel more energized, the more sex I have the more I want so in turn thats when I am really horny..
Why can't some dancers admit that it is a turn on to do this job, its not a bad thing if it does turn you on, I've never understood that way of thinking..
I've had dancers who had no problem turning on, if they were in between relationships or if their significant other was giving them problems. A world of difference in the dance quality. For those that say it is acting, then that is fine, but I'd like to get that acting a lot more often. Of course, I spend more. Usually to the point of spending all my money so there should be an incentive for the dancer to do a good job. Those dancers who did this said it was simply a question of cheating and or respecting their partner.
Another reason I heard and can identify with is that getting turned on brings feelings of closeness. How many people do you really want to get close with? I personally like to avoid full service until I know the dancer fairly well. Most men consider that just dumb. Some women don't like it either.
A few have said that if I'm going to show an interest in caring about how they feel then what the hell am I paying for??? Just get a girlfriend. Then you mention that youth and beauty are very important and the reaction is that, that is crazy. You shouldn't care about the way a person looks as long as they're not too disgusting.
I see a lot more reasons for a dancer to try and remain cold than drum up more business by doing a better job. A buddy had a service provide who he really liked because she was within his budget ($150) and she never seemed to rush him. Just the opposite. Anyway, they got into a conflict because usually he just wanted a quickie and perhaps 10% of the time he'd like to spend a few hours with her. She told him that she didn't want his business if he just wanted quickies and he needed to find another provider. Anyway, he does another quickie and she goes off the deep end and throws his money out the door. He tried working with her, but she just isn't interested in fast clients.
Of course, there are women who don't equate getting turned on with feelings of closeness. Fairly rare, ime.
Another concern that I've heard from dancers is the fear the customer will become too attached. So man gets you off and then feels he is your friend and perhaps worse that therefore he shouldn't have to pay you. Like the bills magically pay themselves. Considering how needy some of these guys are it is easy for me to see why a dancer would want to keep her distance.
Even with the issue of faking it, some dancers can do a much better job but are concerned with the larger picture i.e. clown will start seeing you as a real girlfriend. Given my knowledge of some customers it is unfortunate, but doing less is probably the best choice.
I think I understand what you are trying to say. I believe your theory is that the majority of the dancers are not going to fake it, or otherwise act like they are "into you" or let on that they are turned on because they don't want the customer to get the wrong idea that they have "feelings" for the customer.
If I am misinterpreting what you are saying, I apologize, if not, I am going to have to disagree with you.
The common theme running in most of the discussion threads on this board is quite the opposite. The consensus is that the majority of the dancers DO act like they are hot for the customer; they DO fake that it's the customer that is making them horny. The majority of the dancers intend to make the customers think that there is more between them than a dancer / customer transaction.
However, I DO know that there are exceptions to the rule and there are some honest dancers out there; dancers that do not practice deception and are honest and forthcoming with their customers.
It's the preponderance of dancers possessing and using their acting skills that gives the honest dancers a bad reputation. There are several dancers on this board that are not artists of deception, and I commend them for their honesty. My ATF falls into the category of trustworthy dancers. She actually has been known to refuse to spend time with guys that have developed feelings for her when she could not reciprocate.
Your interpretation is correct.
I think I can see where you are coming from. I wouldn't necessarily describe those dancers who are concerned about hurting my feelings or the feelings of other customers as "honest." They in fact do, do a performance. It is the quality or extent of the performance that is the issue.
A dancer will complain, rightfully so, that the damn customer fell in love with her when she was merely giving him a standard performance. He is supposed to want a fantasy and understand that she is there to help him achieve that fantasy and maybe depending on the club achieve release.
Thus, a dancer is telling me I got a big dick and wonderful stamina and the most beautiful eyes blah, blah, blah. Is she being dishonest if she is trying to give the customer the fantasy he is paying for? Maybe and maybe not. Sometimes the customer is just so stupid that he falls for standard performances. It is truly pathetic. I don't think the dancer did anything wrong and was in fact doing what she was paid to do. The problem is the customer is dumb, delusional, inexperienced, or the like. A buddy I know is extremely bright in business. Dealing with dancers he is completely brain dead and clueless. I mean it in the extreme. Whimpering that the dancer only likes him for his money. Oh gee, she has known you for less than a half hour usually and your main focus is feeling her up. What the hell do you expect???
I've had dancers do an exceptional job--not the standard good job--to the point I will feel the need to ask if she is acting. Sometimes the answer is yes, she is acting. No problem there, keep up the great work. Sometimes the answer is no. Well, she could be telling the truth or she might be "dishonest." Time will tell. I've had dancers not provide the fantasy I want even though there are no real limits. When I request the fantasy I get different responses. Some women, a small minority, are happy to go all out as long as you the customer understand that she is trying make you happy at your request and for your money. When they go all out I will ask why the hell didn't you act like that to begin with? Number 1 reason is that stupid customer will get his feelings hurt. And, it is true.
Other women will say they do the fantasy because they might start believing it. Others will say if you want that you need a girlfriend. Others claim not to be able to do a better job or feel uncomfortable pretending if it is any other than standard bs.
Club Diamonds. Felicity, normally a $5 dancer from a real rough club---Club Honeys. Some young hot dancer willing to do hardcore at low prices to get some money on a slow day.
I'm over at Club Diamonds and it is SLOW. I'm turning down dancer after dancer because 1) I'm waiting for Felicity and 2) they aren't what I'm looking for even if other customers would be drooling. Finally, this young hottie comes over and she is trying her best (and not doing bad at all) to sell herself. Some nice small talk, interest in why I'm at the club and what I like, etc. When I say no to the dance she is a little surprised because she thinks she has the right looks and has done a good sales job. (She is correct on both counts.) Anyway, she asks if I'm looking for a different kind of look or service or lower prices. She'd like to make some money and is willing to do what it takes at a very good price. I say, I just don't think you can give the level of service that I'm interested in. She laughs and says that she thinks pretty much whatever I want is available and that she does a very good job.
I say Felicity and her whole outlook changes completely. She really looks like a different young woman and I don't know if they're enemies or what the deal is.
Then she shakes her head. She says any dancer, but Felicity. Felicity ain't your normal dancer at all she says slowly. That girl is for real. But, she is selective. I sort of laugh because Felicity is a $5 dollar dancer in one of toughest clubs in Miami when she isn't working at Diamonds, but I understand her meaning. The hottie says you want the $5 routine I'd be happy to do that anytime. Today I'll work for less than that, but you ain't talking bout her $5 dollar dances. You're talking a real experience and with that she be very selective. I'm not willing to that unless I'm going to be kicked out the house. With that she said if I changed my mind she would be very happy to try and do a Felicity, but it would just be an act.
Typically, no matter how much of a PL a guy may be, he can differentiate between what is real and what is fantasy. The PLs get into trouble and risk emptying their wallets and suffering from a broken heart when the act is presented so skillfully and convincingly that it "HAS" to be real in the mind of the guy.
Like I said, this is why the discussion along those lines is so pervasive in these message threads. The topic resurfaces over and over again, because someone is debating in his/her own mind whether or not a dancer can have feelings for a customer.
THIS thread is yet another example where a seemingly unrelated topic has once again found it's way to The Debate.
I believe everyone on this board considers themselves to be a savvy enough customer that is able to wade through the SS (or SSS) in order to determine whether it's fact or fantasy. Ninety-nine times out of 100, it is pure fantasy. Why do I feel that way? Well, in a rare instance, I believe there truly are mutual feelings being shared between the customer and the dancer and I base that on my current "relationship" with my ATF. To further muddy the waters, I am 99% sure of her feelings, but I cannot say that I'm 100% certain because of the possibility that she is not being truthful.
What a vicious circle it is.
I think you give PLs too much credit. Most are middle class or better and when it comes to these women they're brain dead. Yeah, savy in other areas of their lives perhaps. But, unless they came from a very poor environment they truly look like sheep looking to be sheared. Of course, my experience is very biased because usually I'm at very low end clubs.
PLEASE give me one of these women that can drain my wallet over a period of month. You're talking about heaven. The best of the best that I've met can't keep the act going over a long period of time. Believe me, I've been with hundreds of dancers. Put in the time you shouldn't have any problem learning the truth in a month or less. Yes, it will cost money . . . in the long run it is not only cheap it is a lot of fun. The key is spending the hours necessary--most men just don't have the time especially if they have the money to spend.
Finally, I guess it is possible to see without having grown up on the wrong side of the track, but it is very hard for me to respect the opinion of the typical square when it comes to dancers or escorts. Sometimes a dancer will make the mistake that I'm a square---that's excellent. Means my front is working. Sometimes it is immediately hey brother drop the fucking act, act real. Nice to meet someone so perceptive especially if we happen to speak the same language. Since, normally I'm seeing black dancers the chance she can actually talk down as a white is fairly rare. It is possible, but rare. That will be either a very interesting dancer or an extremely bright dancer.
It can be alot of fun with a dancer that's an emerging ATF type or semi-reg when you at some point have solid evidence to suggest they are in no current romantic relationships, and I find this especially interesting when your getting into the kissing thing with them, particularly more mature 30ish dancers you have some degree of real life plausiblity with, if for example you happened not to be married. Recently I have tried to avoid even asking the (arguably annoying) supposed indirect question such as "what's your boyfriend or husband think about your dancing?" - instead choosing to simply let them give whatever hints they want to drop or tell whatever part of their life story they chose to reveal. I will admit this takes 3 or 4 sessions, which can get expensive, and of course it doesn't mean they have a thing for us - but in the (admittedly) very rare cases you can actually end up the sole person, either PL or real world person -that's actually getting that close to them
Sounds like some customers want to go from paid to unpaid, which never has sounded appealing to me (discounts extremely appealing because I'm far from wealthy). The woman could be all world. From where I'm standing it doesn't make any difference that she is a brain, funny, perfect body, madly in love with me, generous, caring, loyal, loves NFL football, likes the same foods, shares similar interests, blah, blah, blah. I go to a strip club to avoid that not to look for a possible mate.
Now, I have mistaken the real deal for a fraud. She must have learned the frauds as lessons to be appealing. Well, even though she turned out to be sincere the act is unappealing because it seems so stupid and fake---perhaps not to the guy who goes to strip clubs once a month or twice a month. Go every day and you should get a very different outlook. BTW, in my case it was day and night. I just didn't want to leave. Like some of the dancers would say you might as well be working here and at least earn a few dollars. I liked those dancers. :)
Probably a reasonable summation, and one has to accept that many of these experienced and successful dancers who have done well financially over several years or more (i.e the most skilled in terms of the game) are often the chief breadwinners of their families, with many of them having either boyfriends or husbands along with kids nearly totally dependent upon their income and skill. So they have to be good at their jobs - as there is a huge stake riding on this.
The stripper shi.t I believe generally operates on both a conscious and subconscious level, and when its the later category, where the stripper actually convinces herself to a degree, that a good part of what she is saying is true ("geez we are such great buddies, we talk about everything, which might be lets say half-true in some instances") - in that instance the PL is more likely to buy it, because it has a higher level of authenticity. Now that said, PL's over time either wise up via experience or learn more as they come onto sites like this - and eventually figure out the game
Then the playing field becomes far more equal
If you take what I would call the drycleaner approach to strippers, its all irrelevant anyways, because the drycleaner cleans and presses your shirt, you don't care what they think, what they feel, how horny they might be at a certain time of month. They are paid, you get the shirt back, and that's it. Strippers similarly grind your dick, you pay them, that's it. However for some of us, with at least certain strippers at certain times, with a very small percentage, the game itself is what makes the process interesting (this of course will never be fathomable to certain posters). Some strippers in fact present interesting personalities, and introduce us to individuals we would not have met in the normal course of life.
Some of the people see the world in boring shades of black and white, others in color - its matter of what we enjoy in life. Strippers over time I believe often tend to become extremely screwed up because of their jobs, and that's reason alone to stay away from actual relationships with them - however you can still enjoy interacting with them at a level higher than going to the drycleaner
By the way, I don't give a shi.t about what some Pink-site dancer ass-kissing poster has to say about any of these topics which might go beyond the drycleaner approach to strippers, if the entire thrust of his comments INVARIABLY consists of cynical and smarmy comments directed at dismissing nearly everything said on these matters. "Don't read them" as he might say
Part of original posters first post last month
"My regular pays me $300 for an hour and recently I have started just sitting or lying there talking during it coz it's too tiring and boring to dance for the whole hour. On sat night I didn't even end up getting naked and he didn't say anything. But later he gaveme more money and I thought I better dance just in case he felt he got ripped off earlier."
ORIGINAL POSTERS POST TODAY - (note she's seeking advice from some of the male ass-kissers who frequent this site, partly to continue her string along of an RIL type, one she's already contemplating the expiration date after the RIL figures out the game)
"Very good points Phil. This guy has been a regular of mine for about 8 months and yes he pushes for OTC. So I try to keep him coming in for as long as I can before the relationship expires.
The only problem is that I get really cold lying there not moving LOL but it's a small price to pay. Hustling for that extra $300 vs lying there, well easy choice."
"At the risk of sounding my favourite mantra, have you read books on body language? There are certain signals we send out when we're attracted to someone (flirtation signals) and if you know what they are you can imitate them."
Well, some customers would prefer less nudity and less contact. Actual conversation from an attractive woman would be more valuable. How much do guys pay for phone sex?
t/credit card/ATM card in the glove compartment of your car.
A dancer who can truly fake HEAT will be taking my money and making me extremely happy assuming she has the look that I need. The other garbage about she likes you or she doesn't, seems pointless unless you're seeking a real relationship. Like my prostitute friend asked is there some shortage of ordinary women out there? She just thought it was dumb to seek out working girls unless the man had the proper background. May or may not be dumb, but with most anything there is a price to be paid. PLs beware it is normally hunting season in the strip clubs and you are on the menu! :)
Basically, my thought is screw the damn PLs if that means the dancers will start faking better or better yet getting hot for real. The dancer who is faking good enough to raise questions in mind is to be greatly appreciated and the dancer who convinces me it is real is to be honored, appreciated, showered with what little money I have. :)