tuscl

Have sex harassment laws gone too far?

Tuesday, July 28, 2020 10:53 PM
A study in 2019 confirmed that people ate having less sex. This is especially true among those age 18 to 30. The study found that over 28% of young men in this age range had not had sex in at least a year nor had 18% of young women. Rates of sex had fallen in most other age categories as well albeit to lesser extents. We've seen the sex harassment laws become ridiculously extreme in recent years, with things as seemingly innocuous as a guy asking a female coworker out for a date or any expression of interest or attraction being considered possible "harassment" at work and some other situations. While some will try to deny these things qualify as sex harassment, its clear and indisputable they CAN be and suits have been won over them. Clearly the mere risk of an accusation or lawsuit has caused a chilling effect on what were normal interactions between the sexes since the dawn of time. Considering as late as the mid 1990s workplaces were among the top locations where couples met, today the number of people meeting at work has dried up to a trickle. Its not just workplaces, but even school kids are being subjected to sex harassment charges as young as elementary age. Has the extremely loose definition of sex harassment possibly played a role in the breakdown of normal romantic relations between the sexes not just at work but carrying over to life outside of work as well? Particularly for those who lack a large social circle outside of work, it would seem this could be part of the problem in many young people finding mates. Can it also have a chilling effect outside of workplaces and schools where ingrained behaviors that its wrong for a man to express attraction toward a woman become internalized subconsciously? Have these laws gone too far and how do we reverse this?

37 comments

  • Dave_Anderson
    4 years ago
    First sentence correction: "A 2019 study confirmed that people are having less sex" not "ate having less sex."
  • skibum609
    4 years ago
    Has nothing to do with the laws; its a generational thing. Young people grew up on line. Sex is face to face. We were forced to socialize with girls because we were all outside as kids with nothing to do, so we hung out together. It created a comfort level. My niece back in the winter went to college, co-ed living. 1 floor women; one floor men. I lived co-ed in college. Every floor was a mix and we shared the same bathroom and shower facilities. Co-ed gym. Square dancing in elementary school. We were trainedto be social and live in the real world. Younger people were trained to be anonymous on-line, which makes them social in that area, but inept in the real world. Add in tht young men of today look and act closer to girls and its a mess. CVS just started carrying cosmetics for men. God was kind when he sent covid, to save us from ourselves.
  • Bavarian
    4 years ago
    I don’t think so. The workplace is not a hunting ground for dates.
  • skibum609
    4 years ago
    Dating at work falls under the "don't shit where you eat rule".
  • rickdugan
    4 years ago
    Sexual harassment laws in the workplace have been around for decades. So no, I'm not chalking anything up to that. Much more likely is what skibum alluded to. There are infinitely more distractions now for young people than there were when I was younger. Back in my 20s, my choices for everyday distractions at home basically boiled down to watch my TV or fuck my SO. Nowadays it's easier for a young guy just to rub one out while he's caught up in some epic War of Worlds adventure online. The there is the pussification of men now. They are seeing this a lot in places like Japan too, where an increasingly large percentage of the male population is comprised of herbivore types. I put you in that category too Mr. Anderson since you whine like a bitch instead of owning up to the reasons why no girl wants to fuck you. If you had a sack and the will to overcome, you might actually find a decent girl to have sex with you. You're welcome. 😉
  • mafeditor
    4 years ago
    No (nor is it increased Vegetarianism, which I got a kick out of). Marriage rates have remained constant for past 10-15 years. What has simply fallen somewhat out of favor is the idea of very casual sex, as well as the (which was common in my era) girl who would be pressured into sex, i.e., “if you really love me.” Those changes are less about laws and more about societal norms, and frankly, as a grandfather of two girls, I think that’s mainly a good thing.
  • IceyLoco
    4 years ago
    Whether or not it's harassment depends on several factors. Basically if you're socially retarded and or she's not attracted to you shell consider it unwanted attention and harassment. It becomes a legal matter when you're too stupid to get the hint and get stalker creep vibes
  • chessmaster
    4 years ago
    Lots of simps on here that wont say it so I will. Not just " sexual harassment" laws but with #metoo a female can literally accuse you of harassment, sexual assaualt, rape, or "misconduct" with no evidence and just the accusation is enough to ruin most men. Not only that but the state is completely on their side with affirmative action jobs in corporate America, no fault divorce, and endless welfare programs and "shelters" for women. Why would anyone want to deal with women beyond sex???
  • sinclair
    4 years ago
    "Have these laws gone too far and how do we reverse this?" Yes. You vote out all the feminists, liberals, cancel culture bitches.
  • chessmaster
    4 years ago
    Sinclair is right. But it wont happen.
  • skibum609
    4 years ago
    It only becomes a legal issue when trans males like icey who cannot get a woman without being one themselves, have any say at all.
  • sinclair
    4 years ago
    If you find an attractive woman at your workplace, you can no longer ask her out with how today's sexual harassment is considered. While the woman you are interested in might be totally fine with your advances, it can be considered harassment via a hostile workplace to the 250-pound, ugly hog peeking out of her cubical to overhear your conversation. Trust me, this exact situation happened at my workplace. A fat nasty bitch ease-dropped on a conversation and said it made her uncomfortable. The guy was reprimanded and his record and reputation was tarnished by it. It was ridiculous.
  • nicespice
    4 years ago
    —>“it can be considered harassment via a hostile workplace to the 250-pound, ugly hog peeking out of her cubical to overhear your conversation.“ That kind of personality can just be terrible overall. It SUCKS being a female and significantly more conventionally attractive than most of the others there. Constantly they will find ways to nitpick your competence...among other things.
  • rickdugan
    4 years ago
    ===> "Why would anyone want to deal with women beyond sex???" Well, last I checked we still need them to make babies. 😉 Beyond that, all of this is really getting overblown. When I was last in the dating market 16 or so years ago, the same sexual harassment laws existed and the easy rule of thumb was simply to meet girls outside of work. Beyond that, unless you are a high profile celebrity, the odds on an ordinary guy getting caught up in this #meetoo melodrama is low. Unlike most of you guys who absorb dramatic headlines as if they are everyday life, I'm in the real world constantly surrounded by other couples and normal girls. The boy/girl of today is the same as the boy/girl of yesterday for the most part. Also, in the extremely rare likelihood that you have the misfortune of dating a headcase who eventually turns on you, the same legal standards exist today as existed yesterday for prosecution on rape/sexual assault. Otherwise, just use some common sense in picking potential dates and you should be fine. Here's a hint: If she wears a "Women Take Your Power Back!" t-shirt, cried the night that Hillary lost and/or has pictures of AOC plastered all over her FB page, move on. Otherwise you should be fine. 😀
  • twentyfive
    4 years ago
    If you keep having the same problems over again, a good rule of thumb might be to try something different, cos really it might be you, whada ya think ?
  • Papi_Chulo
    4 years ago
    As others have said, the lack of dating by today's generation likely has other factors involved; although the threat of sexual-harassment *can* be an issue - a lot of young people today seem to wanna avoid responsibility as much as possible including even owning a car (not saying this is universal but more-so than years past). It's common for things to often over-swing the other way - it seems the rise/increase of liberalism along with feminism has added rocket-fuel to the harassment issue and swung it almost exclusively to the other side where a man can often be considered guilty until proven innocent - also; the ease of law-suits in our society also has helped over-swing the pendulum. I think a middle-ground can be fairly easily-achieved by having men be more self-aware and not cross the line, as well as the other side not overreact when it's not warranted.
  • Lone_Wolf
    4 years ago
    I spent a career at a large corporation. Stupid or not, back in the day, work was a fertile hunting ground for sex with co-workers. Now, men avoid being alone with women to the point of not riding on elevators alone with them. Conference room doors are left open when it is just a man and woman meeting. Nothing but work topics are discussed. Another factor not mentioned is women are happy swiping right and fucking high value dudes and don't have to settle for the remaining 80% of the incels. Those left out just give up on chasing pussy. All the other points are factors too. It is a shit show. So yes, absolutely the threat of being accused of inappropriate behavior is a factor in not hooking up. That conditioning affects outside work interactions as well. Women are also hypersensitive as well. Recently a young lady got riled because a male coworker sent her a friend request on FB.
  • JamesSD
    4 years ago
    A boomer high school drop out could buy a house and support a family of four A Zoomer with a master's degree can almost do the same. It's not hard to see why the kids are studying instead of partying and fucking.
  • Bavarian
    4 years ago
    I’m not bitter about sexual harassment laws in the workplace. I don’t give a fuck. I just come in, do my work and leave at the end of the day. I’m not there to chat up any females. That’s what bars and strip clubs are for.
  • Jascoi
    4 years ago
    but all the bars and strip clubs are closed by me
  • goldmongerATL
    4 years ago
    I think the generation Z (is that the 18-30's?) have trouble face-to-face socially as noted. When they are in high school they get lots of face to face socialization. Now that they are out in the world they withdraw to the cyberworld. In high school they are with people they grew up with and were very comfortable with. Once they move to college and the workplace, these are people they are not comfortable with. I got this explanation from a mid 20-something woman I know. We had this discussion a while back. She said in high school she had sex at least once a week. In college it was more like once a month or less. Now in the workforce she has not had sex in over a year and seems OK with that. If you look at her in high school it was more like friends with benefits. She said she had sex with friends but not boyfriends. It is now a matter of it being hard to have friends to that level. And dammit when we parted ways that day she STILL had not had sex in a year.
  • rickdugan
    4 years ago
    I just don't get these issues. To this day I deal with women in high end business settings all day long and I just don't struggle with these issues. It's the same as it has been for the last 25+ years I've been in the business world. The roadmap is simple: Avoid talking about sexual/romantic themes, bodily functions, politics and religion. Every other topic is fair game, including kids, sports, current events (non-political), traffic, weather, recreational activities, hobbies, etc., etc., etc. I can't tell you how much time I spend swapping stories about kids, vacations, different food cuisines, etc. The problem with you guys who can't manage this is not them. It's your own personality oddities and poor impulse control. I'm alone with many of these women all the time too and I have zero worries that I'll give off any weird or creepy vibe or that a misunderstanding will occur. I'm just Rick, an expert in my field and a nice family guy, who is trying to help them and make a living in the process. Simple. 😀
  • IceyLoco
    4 years ago
    I agree with Rick. If you're viewed as creepy or harassing its on the way you come across. Women appreciate masculinity and akways will
  • chessmaster
    4 years ago
    I think that sexual harassment skit with Tom Brady hit the nail head. Funny but not that far from reality. [view link]
  • Papi_Chulo
    4 years ago
    "... If you're viewed as creepy or harassing its on the way you come across ..." It also has to do a lot with looks as Chris Rock mentioned in his Clarence Thomas skit - the fat ugly guy def gets a way shorter-leash w.r.t. being "offensive" than the good-looking guy.
  • skibum609
    4 years ago
    Women appreciate masculinity and always will? 65 years of scrawny rock and roll guys fucking every hottie every day say you're wrong.
  • IceyLoco
    4 years ago
    In my personal experience it doesn't matter what you do or say as long as she likes you or finds you attractive. Skibum. Ugly men with clout use that clout to their advantage. Hence why fugly celebs get laid
  • CC99
    4 years ago
    We can argue that its the sexual harassment laws, or the divorce laws. But the main crux of the issue is that women raised in the progressive west are socially conditioned to lack respect for men. I'm sorry but there is an extraordinary difference between interacting with a girl from Asia and interacting with almost all American girls. The one and only time I ever got approached in broad daylight and actually had a girl get my number and try to court me was a Japanese foreign exchange student. I've also talked to two other girls, one from South Korea and the other from China. Both of them were so sweet that you don't feel any anxiety talking to them at all. The Chinese girl, after I hadn't seen her in like a year or so I saw her in the dining hall at my school and she gave me a smile that was so warm and friendly that even though I was anxious about trying to talk to her, after she did that my anxiety vanished and I immediately went over to talk to her. During the conversation, you can just feel that there's a massive difference. Its easy, its friendly, its kind of awkward but cute. That's what all my conversations with native Asian girls have been like. And I walked away realizing that's how it supposed to be. But American girls are so cold that a lot of young men are subconsciously terrified of them. Every once in awhile you meet an American girl who gives off a similar vibe but its not very often and its pretty much never as intense. Cute native Asian girls practically bask you in a blanket of warmth. You don't mind approaching them because they're so warm and friendly that you just instinctively know they're not gonna hurt you. Approach an American girl and you feel like you're breaking into a high tech security facility turned into an obstacle course that has laser traps and guns laid out for you at every corner. Its a fucking miserable experience trying to court American women. Its so miserable that even the promise of sex is not rewarding enough to go through it and I'm an absurdly horny guy. An overwhelming sense I get from young men everywhere is that women are not worth it anymore. Republicans especially should realize that young men are a seriously untapped source of support right now. Gender relations is easily the biggest problem we face. Stop talking about the goddamn economy. This is the US our economy is fucking fantastic, we don't fucking need more economic improvements. This is as good as it gets as far as economies go. We need social improvements because our country's social relations are absolutely horrible. Everyone fucking hates each other. Promise to take us back to a world where women treat us like the girls from Japan and China do and make fixing gender relations an explicit part of the Republican platform and young men are going to flock to the party like bees to honey.
  • BabyDoc
    4 years ago
    @CC99 Again I find myself SMH. You honestly don’t know what reality looks like. You have some idealized fantasy about Asia and Asians that simply does not exist. I happen to like Asia and Asians but more importantly I know Asia firsthand so it pains me to see someone so naïve. You’re like a sheep but you’re leading yourself to the slaughter in how much like a PL you are acting. Below is a video that you should watch just for entertainment if nothing else. Pay particular attention to what she says at 3:13 through 4:02 before you respond to this post. For everyone else, just apply what she is saying to strippers in a strip club. Enjoy: [view link] And @CC99 one last thing. Ask yourself why you think it is anyone else’s responsibility to “fix” society for your benefit. How can you expect any woman to look to you to take care of her if you can’t (won’t) do for yourself?
  • Bavarian
    4 years ago
    Since SJG is cut off from the public library’s internet, I’m glad CC99 is still posting. Best advice for CC99 is to focus on making money so he can travel to the Philippines.
  • chessmaster
    4 years ago
    "Ask yourself why you think it is anyone else’s responsibility to “fix” society for your benefit." Same thing could be said for the economy with regards to socialism vs capatialism and people expecting the state/tax-payers to support them.
  • Cristobal
    4 years ago
    "A study in 2019 confirmed that people ate having less sex. This is especially true among those age 18 to 30" Really, a study confirmed it? Did they interview the 265 million Americans that are confirmed to be having less sex? I did not get the questionaire, lol. Most likely there was a study done for 100 people and from that minute samoke size such a grand statement is cifirmed, SMH. There is no way to know how much sex people are having, as if it is quanitfy and recorded like some type of W-4, lol. And then to suggest sexual harassment laws have been a reason for the decline in sexual activity is pretty funny too. Overall, work is a place to work, where socialization occurs but sexual escapes rarely happen. Sexual harassment laws are there to protect the company from lawsuits from emoloyees who actually use their power to sexually harass coworker. If a couple had social chemistry there is usually now wrong with pursuing it, as long as it does not interfere with work, is it wise to pursue, I would not because I do not want the drama a relationship will bring in my work place. There are plenty of other places to meet women and pursue a normal relationship.
  • rickdugan
    4 years ago
    I can't believe that this whiny thread is still running. Do these guys really think that difficult females with competing expectations is anything new? Ever since the 80s our public education system re-tooled to promote college and careers over all other things, for both men and women. There is nothing new about female empowerment theories, just like there is nothing new about sexual harassment laws. All of it has been in play for many decades now. The biggest change in recent years has not been with women, but with men. We're raising male pussies now in ever increasing numbers. If they just sacked up and fixed their issues (including their fear of women and rejection) their prospects would improve, but instead they would rather feel sorry for themselves and come on here to whine. It may have something to do with the fact that more of these boys are growing up without fathers in the house, but IDK.
  • CC99
    4 years ago
    @BabyDoc Philippines is a completely different situation. I don't know enough about the Philippines to make a full judgment there but I'm swinging towards a negative one. What I do know though is that they have a really really high rate of crime in comparison to the rest of Asia and that their government slaughtered thousands of people for using drugs. I actually think the Phillippines situation is more representative of societal moral decay than China's situation because the people in China have absolutely no choice as to what their government does but the people in the Philippines actually knew what this guy would do and they chose him anyway. At least when Bolsonaro talks about being tough on crime and shooting criminals he is referring to actual, violent criminals and Bolsonaro has had tremendous success in reducing crime whereas Duterte just had his thugs kill anybody who possessed drugs and actually increased the homicide rate because all he cares about is drugs. @Dems_Rule, @RickDugan and @BabyDoc I wrote way too much so I will just say this instead. No society can operate on the principle of 100% meritocracy lest they become the law of the jungle. Otherwise known as might makes right. The purpose of society is to give advantages to those who help it function the most. Part of this is profit incentive and another part of it is sexual access. If we wish to continue becoming a more ethical society, then our society will need to reward the men who are ethical and help it run the best. The greatest measure perhaps of how much somebody has helped our society grow is how much money they have legally and fairly obtained. Therefore, if we wish people to continue aspiring to help society, then we need to make this society hospitable for men who are like that. And right now it is becoming inhospitable because the way we demand men behave in order to secure sexual access to females does not match up with the personalities of men who tend to be ethical and help society grow. Men who are ethical and help society grow benefit the most under monogamous mating systems where the method of which they meet women is through matchmaking done by friends and family. Rampant norms promoting promiscuity, however, benefit unethical men the most because they both care less about risk and also care less about whether their actions harm the woman they are directing their interest towards. Monogamy promotes ethics, promiscuity has been proven time and time again to create instability which eventually leads to violence. It is unnecessary to practice the strict monogamy of centuries past, however, serial monogamy is still very much necessary of our day and age if we do not wish to suffer from civilizational collapse.
  • CC99
    4 years ago
    Another thing worth noting is that part of how we make women respect men more is through reducing the incidence of sexual violence directed towards them. In my studies of the radical feminist community, I have come to the conclusion that many of them have been raped or abused in the past. While they are mistaken in believing they are oppressed, they are justified to some extent in their anger against men whether one believes it to be rationally based or not. The human mind is not rational and will react strongly to traumatic events. One could easily claim that my own fear of women is not rational because men commit more violent crimes, nevertheless, other young men have not harmed me to anywhere near the same extent as women my own age have. Thus, I have developed an intense fear of women my age. This does not apply, interestingly enough, to older women. If a woman is older than 30 or so, there's no fear at all, but girls in the 15-25 age range, I am very afraid of. So how do we prevent society from raising women who hold contempt for men? Well, to do that, we have to prevent them from coming into contact with contemptible men. Young women in the 15-25 age range are terrible at choosing male partners. After 25 they are usually much smarter, but young women have an extremely poor judge of character. But it goes beyond that, our progressive sexual norms today are actually encouraging men who may have been decent men to become contemptible. The promotion of violent sex acts such as BDSM, "rough sex," and anal sex is manipulating young girls' minds to become dependent on violence in order to turn them on. And this is being fueled by the proliferation of violent pornography that young men are imitating. I have no problem with softcore pornography, and it is completely natural and healthy for teenagers to masturbate to softcore pornography, but there are currently no regulations whatsoever on what young people consume. Pornhub has everything from romantic sex to extremely disturbing acts. This is normalizing violent sex to a frightening extent to the point where boys raised on violent pornography just expect those acts to be available in real life. While rough sex has always existed, there are probably more expectations for both men and women to engage in it than ever before. So in order to solve this, we need to make it extremely difficult for teenagers to get a hold of violent pornography but make it easy for them to view and masturbate to softcore pornography that is romantic and promotes monogamy. If we do this, they grow up with healthy expectations for sex, but it will not be necessary for us to infringe upon freedom of expression laws for adults.
  • skibum609
    4 years ago
    CC, like all progressives, idolizes Josef Stalin who also ran the type of Government that progressive nazis (socialists) want in America. How about women act like they are equal, instead of being the perpetual victim, like a few other "communities".
  • BabyDoc
    4 years ago
    @CC99 Do you recall that I told you to pay attention to what she had to say at 3:13? Well allow me to put some of her quotes in black and white for you: “this guy wouldn’t listen” … ”you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him think” … ”you’re being sold an image, a dream that’s all a lie. And even when you know it cognitively, many of you still won’t give up the illusion.” That is you. You won’t give up your idealized fantasy that you must know isn’t true. My point in posting the video wasn’t to show you the “truth” in the Philippines but to let someone else try to open your eyes. You did get one thing correct and that was that you don't know enough about the Philippines to make a full judgment because everything you’ve assumed you know about the country is distorted at best and sometimes flat out wrong. One thing that you are wrong about was your belief that the Philippines is “a completely different situation.” No it is not and I’m not going to go country by country educating you and showing that you are wrong. But to your delusional fantasy regarding Asian women what I will tell you is that virtually every Asian culture shares a similar system where females are not subservient but more accurately they are lesser beings to at least some extent. In many cases they are culturally closer to beasts of burden than to equal human beings. The one exception that I’ve encountered is in Taiwan. My good friend typifies females there but I don’t think you would like them. She is very independent and extremely adventurous. I could be wrong but I can’t imagine you hooking up with someone like that. But as to your difficulty maturing from child to man I’ll pose the same question to you that I did before. You say you want traditional male/female roles. That is the male as the protector and provider while the female is the nurturer and care giver. So how in the hell do you ever expect any woman to see you as a mate if you can’t do for yourself? So maybe what you want is a beast of burden. Someone/something to own. If so then just admit it but stop crying about life being unfair.
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