Legal Issues, Strip Clubs and Industry Related
san_jose_guy
money was invented for handing to women, but buying dances is a chump's game
So 501traveler raised this issue of dancer contractor status in CA
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php5?id…
Since I have been directed to:
The Dynamex Decision: The California Supreme Court Restricts Use of Independent Contractors
https://www.laboremploymentlawblog.com/2…
The tech sector has gotten much more sleazy, and there are lots of industries now much more sleazy in how they treat their workers than strip clubs.
We should be looking at this and looking at legal issues in general.
SJG
Baby's Looki' Hot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_ufNFTA…
TJ Street
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7290/9620…
http://www.adelitasbartijuanamexico.com/…
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php5?id…
Since I have been directed to:
The Dynamex Decision: The California Supreme Court Restricts Use of Independent Contractors
https://www.laboremploymentlawblog.com/2…
The tech sector has gotten much more sleazy, and there are lots of industries now much more sleazy in how they treat their workers than strip clubs.
We should be looking at this and looking at legal issues in general.
SJG
Baby's Looki' Hot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_ufNFTA…
TJ Street
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7290/9620…
http://www.adelitasbartijuanamexico.com/…
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13 comments
san_jose_guy - commonly referred to as SJG this forum member is usually mocked or ignored, his comments should NOT be taken in any way as legitimate
Stage Side Makeout Session, lots more going on in the shadows too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XARgc5Um…
Lap sitting, prelude to a real nice DFK + FIV makeout session, if the guy wants to come on to her some and go for it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGdaWjCN…
Stage side DATY discernable ( abajo )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AOrtMIK…
Heavy thighs and tush, in white. Such girls are best for TLN, and she looks very ready for that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ea3_CMDa…
Led Zeppelin: Live on TV BYEN/Danmarks Radio [Full Performance] 1969
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-WSbMW7…
the Court embraced a standard presuming that all workers are employees instead of contractors, and placed the burden on any entity classifying an individual as an independent contractor of establishing that such classification is proper under the newly adopted “ABC test” which will be discussed in further detail below.
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Dynamex is a nationwide same-day courier and delivery service that offers on-demand, same-day pickup and delivery services to businesses and the public. Prior to 2004, Dynamex classified its California drivers as employees. Starting in 2004, however, Dynamex converted all of its drivers to independent contractors as a cost savings measure.
"
Dynamex sounds like an extremely sleazy employer, far worse than most strip clubs.
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In January 2005, Plaintiff Charles Lee entered into a written independent contractor agreement with Dynamex to provide delivery services for the company. Just three months after leaving his work at Dynamex, Lee filed this lawsuit on his own behalf and on behalf of similarly situated Dynamex drivers, alleging that Dynamex’s alleged misclassification of its drivers as independent contractors led to Dynamex’s violation of the provisions of IWC wage order No. 9, the applicable state wage order governing the transportation industry, as well as various sections of the Labor Code, and, as a result, that Dynamex had engaged in unfair and unlawful business practices under Business and Professions Code section 17200.
"
Martinez case 2010
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In Martinez, the Court held that to “employ” has three alternative definitions: (1) to exercise control over the hours, wages, or workings conditions, (2) to suffer or permit to work, or (3) to engage, thereby creating a common law employment relationship. Notably, the “suffer or permit to work” definition was derived from statutes regulating and prohibiting child labor laws dating back to the early 1900s and imposed liability simply “based on the defendant’s failure to exercise reasonable care to prevent child labor from occurring.” Martinez at 58. Such a definition, of course, goes far beyond the traditional common law employment relationship. The Martinez case, however, only involved a joint employer analysis—which is conceptually distinct from the question of whether a worker is an employee or independent contractor in the first place.
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Borello Case 1989
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In Borello, the Supreme Court held that the “right to control” the means and manner in which work is performed by a worker is the most important of several factors to be considered when evaluating a classification analysis, including secondary factors such as ownership of equipment, opportunity for profit and loss, and the belief of the parties. This test is more flexible because it balances the different factors to arrive at a classification based on individual circumstances of each case.
"
ABC Test
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Under the ABC test, a worker will be deemed to have been “suffered or permitted to work,” and thus, an employee for wage order purposes, unless the putative employer proves:
(A) that the worker is free from the control and direction of the hiring entity in connection with the performance of the work, both under the contract for the performance of the work and in fact;
(B) that the worker performs work that is outside the usual course of the hiring entity’s business; and
(C) that the worker is customarily engaged in an independently established trade, occupation, or business of the same nature as the work performed.
Note that each of these requirements need to be met in order for the presumption that a worker is an employee to be rebutted, and for a court to recognize that a worker has been properly classified as an independent contractor.
"
"
Indeed, many businesses, particularly those operating in the “gig economy,” are fundamentally premised on the use of independent contractors. In light of this case, any businesses operating in California that treat workers as independent contractors should confer with their legal counsel to review the relationship under the “ABC test” and determine whether any or all such workers should be reclassified.
"
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For example, prong B of the ABC test is particularly troublesome for any businesses that use independent contractors to deliver or provide their core product or service. In applying the ABC test to Dynamex, the Court noted that a class of delivery drivers could be certified under prong B because the question of whether the delivery drivers were performing outside the usual course of Dynamex’s business could clearly be resolved on a classwide basis. Indeed, delivery services—which are provided by the delivery drivers—are the very core of Dynamex’s business.
"
SJG
Stage Side Makeout Session, lots more going on in the shadows too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XARgc5Um…
Lap sitting, prelude to a real nice DFK + FIV makeout session, if the guy wants to come on to her some and go for it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGdaWjCN…
Stage side DATY discernable ( abajo )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AOrtMIK…
Heavy thighs and tush, in white. Such girls are best for TLN, and she looks very ready for that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ea3_CMDa…
Led Zeppelin: Live on TV BYEN/Danmarks Radio [Full Performance] 1969
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-WSbMW7…
This woman escaped from a forced child marriage. Clearly this is outside of anything in my own experience. But she also talks about how in not backing her up, her parents betrayed her. I feel that she has found something which is universal. She has found the betrayal, exploitation, and abuse which is at the core of the middle-class family.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pdqKetN…
TJ Street
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7290/9620…
http://www.adelitasbartijuanamexico.com/…
But for a conventional strip club, that prong B really does it.
So having the dancers be employees, I do not think that costs the club an excessive amount of money. Most all of the other cash flows are adjustable, so it can work out.
Where I see the problem is that the club does not want to know that much about what the dances do. And making them official employees makes firing too difficult, too problematic.
Conventional strip clubs work by plausible deniability, not by rules and policies.
SJG
https://www.amazon.com/Bottom-Feeders-Fr…
So as it explains in the above excellent book, when Jim and Artie first decided that they needed to go to contractor status, they set up an outside talent agency which they would hire the girls as contractors from.
And then in Hustler Magazine in the late 90's there was a great article, two highly painted up girls on stage, down on all fours, doing a mouth tug of war on a Benjamin. Some of the girls were suing against contractor status.
Well today it looks like contractor status is dead in CA, and then likely other states will follow.
So what to do?
Well I think the answer is obvious. The problem with making dancers employees is not how the money works. The money is adequate and so it can be worked out. The problem is that it erodes plausible deniability.
And this after all was the reason for going to contractor status in the first place.
And it is why in out underground circuit, the girls are always run by talent agents, not the bar owner. Trouble is thus minimized.
So set up an outside agency, set up a few of them. Maybe Erotic Dancer's Alliance wants one. Maybe I should run one.
These are not talent agents. These are Exotic Dancer Services. The girls are employees of this service. They get min wage plus all mandatory benefits, like Employer's Cont. Social Security. They can get over time.
But, they do not have regular or guaranteed hours. Rather they are sent out on assignments to the clients, the strip clubs.
They have to sign a sheet of rules with the Exotic Dancer Service and with the Strip Club they are sent out too. Then the strip club will have a contract with the service, and will be billed. The bill is padded with the costs of running the service.
So clubs can request girls by name and serial number, and then the girl should approve the request.
So likely she is scheduled for one stint at a time, and these stints are lunar.
So it can all be computerized. The clubs can have computers which hold their preferences about dancers, like first choices, 2nd, those they take only in emergencies. Etc. Maybe do all the staff that way, up to a certain level.
So for chain clubs I would suggest that the Territory Manager handle all dancer and staff matters, because he can see when a dancer would be better for another club, one targeted at a different market segment.
So as this costs the clubs more, and as the dancers get some wages, then the house cut of the booths and VIP rooms should go up some. Otherwise, basically the same deal.
Try to stop dancers from tipping out bouncers and staff. No good, not when they are employees of this service.
So a shift manager should refer all dancer and staff matters to the Territory Manager. But the Shift Manager can suspend someone's assignment on the spot if necessary. And they can request more people from the Service. Otherwise let the TM handle it.
See if the law allows you to back date the time a girl started, to when she was off, to lower the overtime level.
So it should work.
Say like at the start of the week, TM has his computer prepare the list of who he will request and for what schedules. He makes any alterations he wishes. It knows everyone's schdule preferences, and they know who they want to get more hours from and who they want to ratchet down. So he sends this out to the shift managers. Their job is to get a confirmation from the people they are going to request. Same hours, or some alterations. Once confirmed person to person, the TM submits his request list to the Service.
There can be multiple Services and dancers, staff, and clubs can use them all.
The Service computer replies back with what requests it can fulfill. The TM accepts or makes re-requests. Finally a list is accepted. Then notice goes out to dancers and staff, and they are to either accept or counter offer.
Eventually it is all agreed and then everything is ready for the start of next week. Most dancers have stints of 2 to 3 weeks, then they have time off.
So everyone has signed the rules, including no bouncer tipping.
So if LE says anything is wrong, hold up the paper of rules. Always trying to localize it to just one dancer and one customer. This removes any merits for LE in going after it. IF LE goes after dancers only in San Francisco, the newspapers will eat them alive.
And if LE says a girl did something wrong, how does he know that?
So just say, "And you are telling me a cop got her to do what?"
For underground circuits they do have talent agents and they work for the house and for the dancer.
SJG
Mark Knopfler - Brothers in Arms [Music for Montserrat ~ HD]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9ehJ9fB…
SJG
Joe Jackson Night and Day
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WytS0TE…
TJ Street
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7290/9620…
http://www.adelitasbartijuanamexico.com/…
Baker Gurvitz Army - Vinyl Album High Quality
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cte9Bk_f…
https://www.tuscl.net/app/discussion.php…
SJG
HEADSTONE CIRCUS - Headstone Circus - 1968 (FULL ALBUM) [Psychedelic Rock]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZYPAasu…
Be nice ime, before I have to turn you out do take care of some tricks