Morals are certainly important to what makes a person decent or not but morals in sex industry are killing it. In porn we see condom laws taking effect because of the moral conflicts of a girl getting pregnant or passing diseases around. Those are risks associated with the job. In dancing we see clubs being closed because of things that happen on site or because of there proximity to churches etc. Drinking and nudity not allowed etc... things like this are slowly eroding the industry and i believe some fall back to morality. At the end of the day people feel bad and want to help but theres nothing to feel bad about. Entertainers and customers use porn or clubs out of a choice. No one told me to dance but i made the decision to dance. No angel set on my shoulder and said "girl put your thong back on". Adult entertainment is about pleasure and money and no where is it about morality. We cant legislate away sex or decision making. And we def cant legislate morals. If we continue to allow this to happen we are destined to end the industry all together or so badly hurt it that its pointless and unpopular. Keep the adult entertainment industry dirty like its intended. Its not neat and clean for a reason.
I agree. Keeping this stuff illegal (or in a state people fear it might become illegal) just makes it easier to allow predatory behavior to happen. From the creepy customer, to the ROB dancer, to the asshole club manager, etc
Let's first use morals as the hammer in other areas that impact more of the population like financial, medical, and politics. Imagine if the red tape and layers of unneeded staff were removed from these three areas of our lives.
Costs would dropped dramatically, things get done faster, and people in needed getting taken care of at a fraction of the cost !!!!
I think Poley is confusing morality with the general consensus, morals are necessary for any industry or interaction between people, the pint being that minding your own business is a moral standard, imposing your standard on others is bullying.
Morals are incredibly important in this industry. Obviously it's stupid for a guy to go bareback with an extras-girl, and obviously he should use a condom, but it's immoral for a dancer to go around offering BB if she knows she has an STD that can be easily spread. THAT is immoral. It's stupid for a guy to get completely wasted at the club and pass out in VIP; it would be immoral for a dancer to take all the money from his pockets just because she knows she can get away with it.
To say that morals don't belong in this industry is furthering the stigmatization of this industry and will regress any efforts to lessen boundaries and red tape. It would do the opposite.
This industry needs morality just as other industries (if not more than some).
There are no universal human morals. it is all subjective. I agree that there should be civility in all transactions but using the word "moral" implies judgement and I don't judge. Appreciate maybe .
Bvino - morals are not about judgment in the context you seem to think of it. Morals are about a personal view of right vs wrong, good vs bad. Saying morals don't belong in strip clubs is silly and is akin to saying "strip clubs are places where bad things go on and we shouldn't care." Well, why are strip clubs a place for bad things if we want less rules? Then we need to realize things like sex, nudity, (etc) aren't "bad" things therefore they are not inherently immoral and people can still have morals in a strip club. To say otherwise is actually helping the argument of the judgmental evangelicals and the like, who feed off of the idea that the sex industry is morally bad.
@Bvino morals do not imply judgement of others, judgements are made based on current morality standards, of which there are some and they are necessary for us to function as a society. The real issue here is does your right to swing your arms, end someplace short of the edge of my jaw, that is really where the disagreement comes in, how close is too close?
bvino, i agree. How do you know something is good or bad? Right or Wrong? Moral and Inmoral? In all reality you dont really know. You need a place or a foundation to start your morality. my morality begins here (bible) while yours can begin there.
Its similar to time, how do you know time is real? you need a starting point for time to exist.
I think what the OP was stating is more of the use of morality or the "flag" of morality in the regulation of the sex industry....
IE: condom usage in porn is because they think it will promote safe sex. When in fact Porn is the most regulated and safe with STD checks and what not. So that "law" or "regulation" imposed/forced on them was based off "morals". Not science or stats or health concerns. It was a "feel good" type law.
Then her talk about clubs closing and what not because of people thinking that it is place of prostitution... which they can be (we all know that from reviews)....but again is it totally the fault of the owners? You dont see well fargo closing down because of its corrupt practices. Where is the moral police on that one. Yes they got fined and need regulations but it didn't force them to shut down. Where with sex industry they shut the place down. Like a one strike and you are out!!
So again i agree with alot being said on this issue. yes people need morals to conduct every day business.... be it work related or just walking down the street. good morals is what makes us a civilized country. But to regulate based solely on ones morals over another is subjective. Because it could get down to that someone in power could "morally" object to people making apple pies and make it illegal.... because it was against their morals. Yes I know that is far fetched.... but is an example. Just like some people object to seeing naked women... so they will push a crusade on closing down strip clubs.... yet others think it is morally ok to see nude women.
you can be a decent person but one then has to define decent? someone that doesnt steal? cheat? lie? etc... What is a decent person? A person that takes her clothes off for money or has sex for money are they decent? morals are nothing more than a tool to make you believe certain things are wrong and certain things are right. i dont advocate being a POS person but regulating the industry by morals is a disaster
"There's nothing immoral about pleasure" again, you need a starting point, defintion of what is immoral. If you based your actions (morality) on what is pleasurable, you can lead yourself to self destruction. Laws are passed under the disguise of what should be morally good to you. Laws are written in a way so they can pass, because politicians cant flat out say they are passing a law to incarcerate a certain group of people, mainly the poor.
The OP I believe is talking about others pushing their idea of morals on others. I think that we can all agree that some things are morally wrong, but there are laws that push other people's idea of morals on everyone else. If someone doesn't like titty bars, drinking,dancing nude,ect. they shouldn't go and not try to push their idea of right and wrong on others. The laws they are passing today are trying to curb sex/human trafficking which I think we can all agree is wrong,but in my opinion it's doing nothing but help that ,and hurt legit businesses like SCs.
PD isn't exactly the sharpest tool in the shed. Everyone has morals unless they are a sociopath (and true sociopath are as rare as winning the lottery)
People have a compass of what feels right and wrong. I agree the big problem with strip clubs is this idea that they are a place of immorality and complete depravity. And while this does exist to some extent, if this were truly the case, they'd run themselves out of business. In order for any business to be successful both patrons and owners have to trust they will pay what they're supposed to pay and charge what they're supposed to charge. This contract is what keeps a business in business.
What isn't needed in strip clubs is Puritan/Victorian age sexually repression. This has litte to do with morals but rather controlled behavior. It reeks of social elitists who create laws they don't even follow, but are used to keep a populace in check.
I like poledancer83's threads, and I like her openness and honesty.
I do agree that it's unwise to legislate based off of "morals" as defined by poledancer83. I think societies function best when people acknowledge human nature and pass laws that work with human nature, and remove those which work against it. I also believe that true morality cannot exist without an absolute, all-knowing, all-powerful higher being, as much as I wish that wasn't true.
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I think what you object to is other people imposing their bronze age goat herder morals on consenting adults.
Costs would dropped dramatically, things get done faster, and people in needed getting taken care of at a fraction of the cost !!!!
Morals are incredibly important in this industry. Obviously it's stupid for a guy to go bareback with an extras-girl, and obviously he should use a condom, but it's immoral for a dancer to go around offering BB if she knows she has an STD that can be easily spread. THAT is immoral. It's stupid for a guy to get completely wasted at the club and pass out in VIP; it would be immoral for a dancer to take all the money from his pockets just because she knows she can get away with it.
To say that morals don't belong in this industry is furthering the stigmatization of this industry and will regress any efforts to lessen boundaries and red tape. It would do the opposite.
This industry needs morality just as other industries (if not more than some).
Its similar to time, how do you know time is real? you need a starting point for time to exist.
IE: condom usage in porn is because they think it will promote safe sex. When in fact Porn is the most regulated and safe with STD checks and what not. So that "law" or "regulation" imposed/forced on them was based off "morals". Not science or stats or health concerns. It was a "feel good" type law.
Then her talk about clubs closing and what not because of people thinking that it is place of prostitution... which they can be (we all know that from reviews)....but again is it totally the fault of the owners? You dont see well fargo closing down because of its corrupt practices. Where is the moral police on that one. Yes they got fined and need regulations but it didn't force them to shut down. Where with sex industry they shut the place down. Like a one strike and you are out!!
So again i agree with alot being said on this issue. yes people need morals to conduct every day business.... be it work related or just walking down the street. good morals is what makes us a civilized country. But to regulate based solely on ones morals over another is subjective. Because it could get down to that someone in power could "morally" object to people making apple pies and make it illegal.... because it was against their morals. Yes I know that is far fetched.... but is an example. Just like some people object to seeing naked women... so they will push a crusade on closing down strip clubs.... yet others think it is morally ok to see nude women.
People have a compass of what feels right and wrong. I agree the big problem with strip clubs is this idea that they are a place of immorality and complete depravity. And while this does exist to some extent, if this were truly the case, they'd run themselves out of business. In order for any business to be successful both patrons and owners have to trust they will pay what they're supposed to pay and charge what they're supposed to charge. This contract is what keeps a business in business.
What isn't needed in strip clubs is Puritan/Victorian age sexually repression. This has litte to do with morals but rather controlled behavior. It reeks of social elitists who create laws they don't even follow, but are used to keep a populace in check.
I do agree that it's unwise to legislate based off of "morals" as defined by poledancer83. I think societies function best when people acknowledge human nature and pass laws that work with human nature, and remove those which work against it. I also believe that true morality cannot exist without an absolute, all-knowing, all-powerful higher being, as much as I wish that wasn't true.