When you're a man of color, you have this unfortunate 6th sense where you just know when the underlying reason for something happening to you is about race. I'm not even joking about that, though I wish I was. It's a survival mechanism to help you decide whether to fight back, or put your head down and "yes sir" and "no ma'am" your way out of a situation.
It's an reality of being black/a minority in America. Not saying people realize their doing it, but their unconditional apprehensiveness of black people for whatever reason leads to more bullshit "misunderstandings" like this.
From the facts provided, it sounds like LA Fitness handled this poorly. So, what are the damages that deserve compensation ? Maybe the refund of membership fees plus a couple hundred dollars for their trouble. That’s a true reflection of the actual damages. We’ll see.
Of course it represents racial profiling, @Fagooner. What else is new? Racism is rampant in our society. Our president came into power by claiming his predecessor was born in Kenya.
Here's my take on it, coming from someone who is not a "Person of Color".
Was it or wasn't it racism? I really don't know, and I can't imagine that anyone other than the actual employ knows either, and maybe she isn't even aware if it was. Based on the way the media portrayed it, it certainly sounds like it was.
The problem is that there have been so many incidents that have been blown up by the press in recent years as being racially motivated that were later found not to be the case. It seems the entire Black Lives Matter movement was built on them.
Racism does exist, and it is prevalent. To believe otherwise is completely naïve. What makes it harder is that racists are not normally forthcoming about their motivations. The fact that we have made quite a bit of progress over the past 60 years or so, and that the level of racism in this country is significantly less than in most other parts of the world doesn't matter. Racism is wrong.
Unfortunately, I don't think it can ever be eliminated.
Personally, I can't confidently say that a person's race, religion, national origin, sexual orientation, ... doesn't subconsciously impact my perception. I'm human so I am going to naturally attribute prior experiences and teachings when analyzing something. I just do my best and hope that the impact of it is minimal.
The use of a "Sixth Sense" to identify if something is racist seems to do exactly what you accuse racial profilers of. Based on your personal experience or by what has been taught to you about a group of people in a demographic, you are assuming that you can identify the motivation of an act by an individual just as you accuse a racist of doing. Rationalize it to yourself all you want, but it is equally wrong. In both cases it results in the assumption of guilt before being proven innocent, and it isn't fair to the individual. I know, life isn't fair.
There were two cases recently, Starbucks and LA Fitness. Based on what I know about each incident, taken in isolation, it wouldn't be fair for me to guess if the acts were racist or not without seeing how that individual previously acted under similar situations. Would it change your mind if you learned that the employees in each of these incidents were black? Would that have made it okay?
Wouldn't it be better if we can just go through life assuming that people act with the best of intentions instead of assuming that we are being persecuted all the time?
@flagooner Better question even though I agree with a lot of your reply, why did you feel compelled to post this here if you don;t know the answer to the question ? I assume you just wanted to stir the pot, but my assumption could be wrong, Nah I'm right!
^very intelligent respsonse(even though you are patronizing us). But i agree mostly. It isnt racism in every one of these cases but surely race has something to do with it(subconsciously or not) in some of them. And people are quick to cry racism/sexism but thats only because it does in fact exist and it is prevalent. In this case specifically, im not sure. But it seems so trivial, that i think race could have something to do with it. I go to the gym once or twice a week. Im familiar with "guest passes". I have never had a problem using one or giving one to a friend to get in. Nor have i ever noticed any white guys having complications though. To me, how did they get in in the first place, if the friend wasnt a member, or the "guest pass" wasn't valid?
"Rationalize it to yourself all you want, but it is equally wrong. In both cases it results in the assumption of guilt before being proven innocent, and it isn't fair to the individual. I know, life isn't fair."
@flag - its hard to explain if you've never been the victim of racism, or maybe I should say whether or not you have to even be concerned thats what the person's motovation is. I'm serious when I say it's something I have had to be aware of because it determines my reaction (something that has been a life or death decision for some people of color, fortunately not for me). If someone is treating me the way they are due to prejudice feelings towards me rather than based on my actual actions, then I know they don't play by the rules, my reaction could make things go south. That's a reality I wish more people could understand, and when we talk about "privilege", the privilege to live your life without have to measure your reaction by whether you believe someone has bigotted motivations is part of what we're talking about.
This isn't to say I'm out there screaming "racism" as soon as something bad happens to me or some other minority, but it does mean I adjust my reaction accordingly until I get a better understanding of the full story. So no, it's not equally wrong, it's a reality that black people have had to live with for survival reasons against blatant bigots and those who are unwittingly prejudiced that has been inherited down over generations. Please don't try to equate racism with a defense mechanism against it.
"Wouldn't it be better if we can just go through life assuming that people act with the best of intentions instead of assuming that we are being persecuted all the time?"
*Certain groups* that have been mentioned already don't have this luxury. It's funny you ended your lengthy "reflection" with that sentence, because that is a main point you don't understand.
I could go on and correct more of what you said, but you seem to be stuck in your ways. I believe you only posted this with an agenda to stir controversy and be able to explain your point of view, because you already had a point of view prior to posting this that wasn't going to change. I don't think you were expecting the truthfully insightful response you received. I still don't think you understand the societal problem of racial profiling and villainizinaton of people of color, especially the darker-skinned. I don't think you want to understand it, either.
@flagooner The part I agree with is
“wouldn’t it be nice”
Unfortunately if you are AA you don’t have the luxury of trying to guess the motives of others it could get you killed, therefore if I was a person of color, which I am not, it would be extremely wearisome having to deal with this kind of subtle shit day in and day out. After a while I would assume the worst most often just as a self preservation mechanism. I think honestly you aren’t putting yourself in the shoes of a black man, just looking at the problem through rose colored glasses, or even trying to make the scenarios fit your own preconceived notions.
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It's an reality of being black/a minority in America. Not saying people realize their doing it, but their unconditional apprehensiveness of black people for whatever reason leads to more bullshit "misunderstandings" like this.
yes
> Was there any indication that the actions were motivated by race?
Who cares? Everyone knows that national chains are hotbeds of this kind of shit.
Here's my take on it, coming from someone who is not a "Person of Color".
Was it or wasn't it racism? I really don't know, and I can't imagine that anyone other than the actual employ knows either, and maybe she isn't even aware if it was. Based on the way the media portrayed it, it certainly sounds like it was.
The problem is that there have been so many incidents that have been blown up by the press in recent years as being racially motivated that were later found not to be the case. It seems the entire Black Lives Matter movement was built on them.
Racism does exist, and it is prevalent. To believe otherwise is completely naïve. What makes it harder is that racists are not normally forthcoming about their motivations. The fact that we have made quite a bit of progress over the past 60 years or so, and that the level of racism in this country is significantly less than in most other parts of the world doesn't matter. Racism is wrong.
Unfortunately, I don't think it can ever be eliminated.
Personally, I can't confidently say that a person's race, religion, national origin, sexual orientation, ... doesn't subconsciously impact my perception. I'm human so I am going to naturally attribute prior experiences and teachings when analyzing something. I just do my best and hope that the impact of it is minimal.
The use of a "Sixth Sense" to identify if something is racist seems to do exactly what you accuse racial profilers of. Based on your personal experience or by what has been taught to you about a group of people in a demographic, you are assuming that you can identify the motivation of an act by an individual just as you accuse a racist of doing. Rationalize it to yourself all you want, but it is equally wrong. In both cases it results in the assumption of guilt before being proven innocent, and it isn't fair to the individual. I know, life isn't fair.
There were two cases recently, Starbucks and LA Fitness. Based on what I know about each incident, taken in isolation, it wouldn't be fair for me to guess if the acts were racist or not without seeing how that individual previously acted under similar situations. Would it change your mind if you learned that the employees in each of these incidents were black? Would that have made it okay?
Wouldn't it be better if we can just go through life assuming that people act with the best of intentions instead of assuming that we are being persecuted all the time?
@flag - its hard to explain if you've never been the victim of racism, or maybe I should say whether or not you have to even be concerned thats what the person's motovation is. I'm serious when I say it's something I have had to be aware of because it determines my reaction (something that has been a life or death decision for some people of color, fortunately not for me). If someone is treating me the way they are due to prejudice feelings towards me rather than based on my actual actions, then I know they don't play by the rules, my reaction could make things go south. That's a reality I wish more people could understand, and when we talk about "privilege", the privilege to live your life without have to measure your reaction by whether you believe someone has bigotted motivations is part of what we're talking about.
This isn't to say I'm out there screaming "racism" as soon as something bad happens to me or some other minority, but it does mean I adjust my reaction accordingly until I get a better understanding of the full story. So no, it's not equally wrong, it's a reality that black people have had to live with for survival reasons against blatant bigots and those who are unwittingly prejudiced that has been inherited down over generations. Please don't try to equate racism with a defense mechanism against it.
*Certain groups* that have been mentioned already don't have this luxury. It's funny you ended your lengthy "reflection" with that sentence, because that is a main point you don't understand.
I could go on and correct more of what you said, but you seem to be stuck in your ways. I believe you only posted this with an agenda to stir controversy and be able to explain your point of view, because you already had a point of view prior to posting this that wasn't going to change. I don't think you were expecting the truthfully insightful response you received. I still don't think you understand the societal problem of racial profiling and villainizinaton of people of color, especially the darker-skinned. I don't think you want to understand it, either.
“wouldn’t it be nice”
Unfortunately if you are AA you don’t have the luxury of trying to guess the motives of others it could get you killed, therefore if I was a person of color, which I am not, it would be extremely wearisome having to deal with this kind of subtle shit day in and day out. After a while I would assume the worst most often just as a self preservation mechanism. I think honestly you aren’t putting yourself in the shoes of a black man, just looking at the problem through rose colored glasses, or even trying to make the scenarios fit your own preconceived notions.