Cheers to all the vets on Veteran's Day

Hugevlad: you really don't want a mutiny in the US armed forces, no matter how theoretically intelligent it might sound here on a board. The implications are so much more far-reaching that, merely, to forestall a foreign policy with which many citizens, including yourself (and myself, too, by the way) might disagree.

I guess the mass death and all the atrocities committed in what are ostensibly wars of colonisation aren't the acts of soldiers on the ground but the chickenshit cowards who have sent them there in the first place? It is up to the soldiers now to stand up and question juss what the fuck is going on over there. How come the standard of I was juss following orders wasn't any good when proffered initially in war but now the same officers following orders juss elicits a shrug and apathy? (Yeah I know, don't answer that, our guys are heroes and enemies of ours are terrorists or some other bottom feeders).

I apparently am younger than many on here. I was friends with someone who was in the army reserves before Iraq started up. Lost contact with him so I don't know too much.

As someone said you have no choice after you join up. You decide to join up, then the military owns you whether you agree or disagree. Anyway I just wanted to thank those who are serving or have served their country even if not everyone agrees with those orders.

I'm still wondering why the draft age got raised all the way up to 42. Makes you wonder what someone had in mind.

Oh, my point was that the American soldier, the veteran, has never failed our country. Our soldiers have always done what we required. Always. It is only our politicians, our national will, and I'll prejoratively add our press that fail us.

Shadowcat, I'll go you one better, at the risk (ok, with the intention) of enraging hugevladfan. We did win in Vietnam. We achieved a military victory resulting in a peace treaty because from Tet on the North couldn't beat us. The VC were nonexistant by the end of the war and the vast majority of the fighting was done by the South Vietnamese troops by the end of the war (or rather our involvement). We negotiated a peace treaty, leaning heavily on the South to accept it, and guaranteeing our military aid and air support. The North signed the treaty ceasing hostilities. Our congress then in the wake of Watergate explicitly repudiated our guaranteesa of military support to the south. The north invaded, and without air support the south collapsed. We had no combat troops in Vietnam at the time. Short version, our congress declared defeat and clearly said to the north that there would be no American support for the south and no consequences for their violation of the peace treaty. That my friends is how America came to lose a war for the first time, by a vote of congress.

I have to admit I, too, object to the war in Iraq. But I try to remember that the vast majority of American servicemen and servicewomen serving in that theater have almost no choice in deciding our national foreign policy, and signed up on the basis of defending freedom and supporting their nation. Therefore, for Veteran's Day I say, "hoorah" to them; and when and if a President At War In Iraq Day comes around, I'll say, "up yours" to him.

I tried to enlist (preferred Navy aviation, personally) three times. Each time they caught the fact that I have exercise-induced asthma to an extreme. Otherwise, I'd be say-looting too.

OH PLEASE STFU. I guess we should've dropped a nuclear bomb on Vietnam or sumpin. As far as Iraq? Considering it was a moral atrocity in a country we never belonged in in the first place, well withdrawal would be a start of atoning for that grave sin. I could go on.

I still remember several years ago I was enjoying myself in a strip club and an old guy came up to me happily and said "I just love these go go bars. I'm a WWII vet."

Thanks to all the vets out there for defending our country.

Your welcome shadowcat. Did you mean to say Iraq instead of Iran or are you talking about something that is not common knowledge? Anyway regardless of which country some of our troops or special forces may be in, I don't think Hillary Clinton will be nominated for president since the rumor is she won't win the popular election and the dems want to nominate a candidate that can win.