tuscl

Sexual Harassment Waivers

Lone_Wolf
Arizona
I'm not a fan of Al Franken's political ideology but I can see nothing in the sexual harrassment allegations against him that would warrant a resignation from the senate. Shit, imagine what the unemployment rate would be if all men had to resign from their jobs over something stupid they said or did with a woman at anytime in their life.

It will be interesting to see where all this BS leads. As ridiculous as it sounds maybe us dudes will have to get the women around us to sign some sort of waiver promising they won't sue us if we say a dirty joke or touch them in anyway.

Yea, sounds crazy but that flirtatious skanky honey at work that is always hanging on you at after hour office parties just might have a video of you talking about BJ's and rubbing her lower back. Could be sprung on you a decade from now along with an accusation you are fucking perv that harassed the shit out of her even though she sure seemed to be encouraging at the time. This shit is getting crazy.

27 comments

  • shadowcat
    •
    7 years ago
    I'm reminded of the time that this 50+ yo female working in our office found an old copy of Play Boy magazine. She raised hell with management about it which prompted a bulletin about this kind of behavior. Shortly there after she let it slip that she was born and raised in Salem MA. That didn't surprise anyone. :)
  • jester214
    •
    7 years ago
    It's a sad situation all around. Women shouldn't be sexually harassed and it really does happen far too often. That said, the fact that mere allegations are costing people their jobs and reputations without even an attempt at an investigation is shocking.

    Last week a female co-worker came into a conference room I was sitting in alone and closed the door, without even thinking I told her I'd prefer it was left open. I really don't think I would have done that a year ago and she's not even a subordinate.
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    7 years ago
    I very strongly support the politics of Al Franken, and I don't consider the allegations against him to be overly serious. However, I do think it is correct for him to resign, as a Senator should exemplify legal and ethical conduct, even if many on the opposite side of the aisle do not.

    SJG
  • Electronman
    •
    7 years ago
    The rush to judgment without any due process or verification of accuracy of the accusations is very troubling. It could end up discrediting what is otherwise a long overdue accountability for unacceptable abusive and coercive behavior. Think what will happen if (and when) some of these allegations are revealed to be spurious and self-serving. Will it cast a shadow over all of the other accusations and the accusers? "Trust but verify" and "due process" principles need to be inserted into this movement.

    Also, there is some need for nuance-- telling an off color joke or propositioning a female coworker (once and politely) is not equivalent to a pattern of harrassment and physical or power based coercion of a sexual nature.
  • GACA
    •
    7 years ago
    Honestly the chilling effect this is going to have on Society at large is not to be underestimated. A lot of females already complaining that there are no real men to approach them and ask them out. Most of my female friends don't understand why I like going to strip clubs, and then I'm cute enough to get all the free sex I want blah blah blah. But the truth is I'm not that nuanced and the strip club is simple you want my money and I behave as I want while I give it to you.

    Anything's these rules going to make strip clubs more popular not less popular.
  • eyeofodin
    •
    7 years ago
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/03/educa…

    pay attention to the third q&a.......
  • Clubber
    •
    7 years ago
    Here's the deal in simple terms.

    A man gropes a woman, bad new for him!
    A woman gropes a man, good news for him!

    It's called perspective. Females and males throughout the animal kingdom are very different creatures. Women and men are different creatures. They don't think the same. Always have been, likely always will be.

    Mankind always tries to change the nature of the universe. Guess what, we ain't that F'ing powerful!
  • Book Guy
    •
    7 years ago
    Franken shouldnt have resigned because he has a brain as well as a dick. Unlike the present Executive.
  • Bj99
    •
    7 years ago
    It’s not that hard not to sexually harass ppl, but it’s a problem when it’s more like fraternization bc both parties are interested. Groping and threatening shouldn’t be hard to avoid. Anyone who’s a big enough idiot to grope and threaten someone sexually doesn’t need to be in a position of power bc they are clearly stupid. Fraternization type stuff is more complicated. I think it’s usually victimless.

    I remember learning ab a lawsuit where women who were not given the opportunity to sleep their way to promotions attempted to sue bc they didn’t have the same opportunities lol. They lost tho. I kinda think if they’d have won, it would make it easier.
  • Clubber
    •
    7 years ago
    Book,
    I assume you are speaking of the "Executive" as our President. And to think you believe he is brainless, yet he out smarted the destined President. Doesn't say much for your choice or choices. Get over it!

    I endured 8 years of obama's failures, so should be easy for you to "endure" 8 years of President Trump's triumphs!
  • joc13
    •
    7 years ago
    We're gonna look back at 4 years (or 8 years) and wonder "Holy shit, how did he get all that done?"

    And it will be like any other successful business executive does - have a vision, communicate the vision to your staff, empower the staff to execute the vision, and then draw all the knucklehead focus on to yourself (including taking the blame, or let people think you're taking the blame) so staff can go out and get the work done and no one notices until they realize they are better off.

    Bill Clinton had this style (not Hillary - she throws staffers under the bus as quick as she can - see Benghazi and email server), which is why I had no problem voting for him both times.

    He and Trump also seem to embody my personal philosophy: acquire money and power; use it to get pussy.
  • mark94
    •
    7 years ago
    Franken hasn’t resigned. He said he is going to resign in the coming weeks. He also admitted nothing. That gives him an out if the situation changes.
  • Clubber
    •
    7 years ago
    Mark,

    I've little doubt that he did some of if not most of what he is said to have done. But one thing that bothers me is this isn't a two way street.
    You or I could be in a group and tell a sexual joke and we'd all laugh. But, there could be a woman present that would consider that sexual harassment. To back this up, where are all the guys accusing women of sexual harassment? Do they not do so, or do guys just don't care? I think the latter!
  • orangepicture
    •
    7 years ago
    We were talking kinda about this at work yesterday, though it was only about having permission slips signed prior to shaking a girl's hand.
  • Clubber
    •
    7 years ago
    orange,

    I'm happy I worked, for the most part, in a male environment, or alone. Can't imagine anything happening these days, although, I could claim sexual harassment against some of the young ladies that flirt with me as the old dude! Trust me, that will never happen!
  • orangepicture
    •
    7 years ago
    I work in a 20 person office, but I try not to stay late at work if the only other employee is a female. Instead, when the other last remaining male leaves, I'll go at the same time.

    Back in 2006, when I was in my mid 20's, I asked out a hot summer intern once and that totally backfired on me. Turns out she had a boyfriend and he apparently showed up one afternoon to beat me up in the Corporate parking lot, but I happened to of had a spur of the moment client meeting elsewhere that afternoon. The president and partner found out, called me into the conference room the next day and said there was going to be a full investigation in the matter. There was even a formal letter issued on the matter that I had to sign. They interviewed every other girl in the office to ask them if they noticed me making inappropriate advances at this intern. The girl's summer internship "ended early" and here I am today, 11 years later, at the same company because I didn't do anything wrong. The president, now retired, never apologized to me though for embarrassing me over this issue. The issue did have them make the off the record rule of "don't dip your pen in the company ink" an official rule in our company's manual. Funny enough, that president's wife of 30+ years was an employee of his before they married, so hypocritical of him. Another female co-worker of mine started dating a 1099 "consultant" that worked out of our office in 2010, who she eventually married, but they didn't get fired for dating while co-workers. She pursued him to form the relationship, so I guess females can chase males, but not the other way around.
  • mark94
    •
    7 years ago
  • Clubber
    •
    7 years ago
    Funny how women are so into this equality BS and yet, they want "special treatment".
  • BurlingtonHoFactory
    •
    7 years ago
    @orangepicture,

    I think if this had happened today instead of 2006, you may have simply been fired outright. It really has become that insane nowadays. This is a hysteria that shows no sign of stopping. It seems to have started on college campuses (where so much stupid nonsense begins) as a result of the Obama administration's guidance on campus rape. But now it's gotten so much bigger than that.
  • orangepicture
    •
    7 years ago
    @Burl
    Yeah, I have no doubt that if this event occurred this year, I'd be out the door. Guilty until proven innocent. Funny enough, when the former president of our company retired this year (on inauguration day of all things), we had a party for him where we all got him gag gifts. I jokingly suggested to the new president, who was the partner at the time, that I make photocopies of the harassment letter that I still have a copy of and use that as wrapping paper. I got a very stern "No!" response to that joke.
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    7 years ago
    I know of a local company, years ago. A young man just out of college had started working there. All of a sudden his boss approached him and said that their were complaints, that he was looking too much at the young women in that work area. The young man was totally unnerved. Did not know what to do.

    A conference with he and his boss, and the male manager for the dept which had all the young women. More unnerving, seeing it as very personal.

    Then a meeting with someone from their group, the woman supervisor, saying to him that he was, "Checking out bods." The young man totally shattered.

    Eventually he accelerated a transfer which was already underway. Not until years later was the truth discovered.

    The supervisor of the other group had just graduated from Stanford, and she was bringing an academic and moralistic feminist standard to the company. Also, she was Orthodox Jewish and practiced what they call in Hebrew, "modesty"

    They try to eradicate sexual attraction.

    So the women in her group were working class and often ethnics. Some of them dressed really sexy, and at all times. Everyone looked at them, and that is what the women wanted. For them, the work place had purpose beyond career advancement and a paycheck.

    But the supervisor, seeing all the voyeurism, was approaching them and saying, "Did you see the way that guy looked at you? Do you want to make a complaint? If you let him do that, then you are helping to denigrate all women."

    This violates rule number 1 of sexual harassment, that the complaint has to originate with the supposed victim, not with anyone else. It is in the eyes of the victim, not according to some absolute standard.

    Within a couple of months that supervisor was swept up in a layoff, and the male manager of that group was sending messages out which indicated that their never had been a real problem.

    Most single office women in my observation, want to be hit on, at least by the right people. And they dress to encourage this.

    Some avoid clean rooms and bunny suits, because they their are not there allowed to wear makeup. I have had to review resume's of such, seeking transfer to office environments for that reason.

    Remember the cardinal rule is always consent.

    Real life and feminist ideals are often highly incompatible. And it is even worse when conservative religion is added to the mix.

    SJG

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  • Rick999
    •
    7 years ago
    I remember working one job over 20 years ago and a female worker pinched me on the rear by surprise. Then I tried to get even by
    pInching her rear. She smiled and ran to the opposite side of a table real quick. We could have both been fired nowadays if anyone had reported it and she did this in front of several other employees. Fast forward a few months and she asked me if I would like to meet up with her for an all nighter at a hotel. Never even had anyone from management ever say a word. No one reported anything. Now fast forward to today. You even look at a female worker the wrong way or ask her out and get reported, you could lose your job.
  • Jascoi
    •
    7 years ago
    a blind man has an advantage in our p.c. society.
  • Rick999
    •
    7 years ago
    I remember talking to some females on a production line several years ago. The supervisor for the area at the time nodded to me sort of in private and said something about checking out the ladies. I never at the time thought you could get fired because someone suspected something even if you weren't guilty of any crime you were aware of. If any guy can get fired for looking at a girl, anyone could get fired for what I consider frivolous reasons. I don't think that is right. I liked it better when companies gave employees seniority and you kept your job unless you had bad performance or a valid reason to be fired. To be let people go for any reason whatsoever isn't the right way to treat employees in my opinion. Want to do a big corporate cost savings, just tell all the companies to let go of all the highest paid employees in a group unless they are critical to operations. That way you justify firing everyone with several years of experience who make more than everyone else. You fire everyone who has performed well for years and who has trained others on their job. You end up firing the most successful skilled people. Great cost savings.
  • Rick999
    •
    7 years ago
    of course I was being sarcastic. Two skilled employees making 50k plus a year cost a lot more than one highly skilled employee making 70k plus a year. The idea of cutting skilled employees for cost savings is a joke only top executives might believe.
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    7 years ago
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    7 years ago
    All About Politicians Sexually Harassing Women, DJT, Roy Moore
    https://www.democracynow.org/shows/2017/…

    SJG
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