Thrill of the pursuit

i think you misunderstood his point

i can't speak for dougster, but i think his point was that there's not much of a "pursuit" in a strip club because these gorgeous women are throwing themselves at customers for money.

that's the whole appeal of SC's. its instant gratification from beautiful women. in the real/civy world......picking them up is not nearly as easy

Yes - I know what you mean - that excitement of anticipation one gets when going to a SC- I used to feel that way when I did not SC as much - but these days averaging one SC visit per week and sometimes more (I binged yesterday and visited 4 SCs in one day; two on dayshift two on nightshift); I hardly feel that thrill anymore and it's more of a been there done that feeling.

You just haven't offered enough money. I'm not saying you should, just that all strippers have a price. In many cases the stunners overvalue themselves though.

the thrill is wonderful. butt i do have my limits that i am willing to pay.

Once you learn that it's actually the hottest girls who are the most willing to do (any kind) of extras... Guess the OP is just a clueless newbie.

PL is as PL does. I've been fortunate/unfortunate to find that one. Ozzy said it best: " I'm goin off the rails on a crazy train ".

Not every girl does everything. Not every girl does everything with every customer. Will you find someone you like, who will give you what you want, for what you're willing to pay?

I'd say it's obvious to the point of being moot that most of us enjoy this aspect, to some extent. Among guys who like escorts, it's exactly what they don't like, and the reason they go with escorts. Obviously, there's a bit less of this in brothel-like extras clubs, where very girl DOES do everything, and it's just a matter of price. I've been pulling girls out of non-extras clubs for years, and enjoy the uncertainty

I've always been with @Dougster on this topic. You go into a club and 1 out of 5 dancers are desperate enough to sleep around because they are single moms or addicted to drugs or have out-of-control spending habits. About every fifth visit you score out of random luck. Or wait -- maybe you scored because you're a smooth-talking Rich Stud wearing a white polyester suit? Yep, thrill of pursuit. Attaching a "thrill of pursuit" to paying for sex in a strip club is just plain goofy.

If you really want the "thrill of pursuit" then go to Starbucks or your local State U. and pick up a 20-yr-olds with no exchange of cash.

-->"You go into a club and 1 out of 5 dancers are desperate enough to sleep around because they are single moms or addicted to drugs or have out-of-control spending habits"

What if the girl you want is one of the other 4? Are you applying this standard of "no thrill of pursuit" based on the fact that there's a high probably of finding SOMEONE (even if you don't want her)? I don't understand the disagreement here -- are you guys saying you can walk into a no-extras club and get OTC almost all of the time, with exactly the girl of your choice, with the activities you want, at the price you want? If so, I most be a total wanker, a good number of girls aren't interested, and I'd guess at least half who eventually say yes, take some convincing and multiple trips on my part. If there's a high degree of uncertainty -- maybe you guys are smoother or richer than me, but there's definitely plenty of uncertainty for me -- then "thrill of pursuit" can apply.

"at the price you want"

That's where we disagree, @Subra. For me, and by definition, there's no "thrill of pursuit" if you're paying for sex.

RM: Can I assume that you're not disagreeing that there's plenty of uncertainty -- just that there's no "thrill" for you, about that?

It's all semantics, sorta like many PLs use the term ATF to describe a dancer they like - I assume the OP and others refer to the thrill/enjoyment of finding the right dancer they are looking for vs saying or feeling like they have "scored" and accomplished some great feat that only a select few can accomplish (although there are some that feel that way)

Yeah, fair enough, @Subra. Paying for sex with girls half my age is just entertainment for me -- it's not linked to my identity like, say, @Dugan. It's all prostitution to me whether it's a AMP, brothel, strip club, sugaring, escort, etc... I choose sugaring with one partner for STD safety.

The main premise I disagree with is that "some girls are very choosy about who they do OTC/ITC with" and "she does things for me that I known she doesn't do with other customers". Also, that hot girls are less likely to do extras than less hot ones. They are definitely more likely in my opinion. I can think of a couple of good possible explanation for this.

If a girl is doing extras with anyone there is a small chance you are the very first but after that she has already broken through that mental energy barrier and her rationalizations are in or she just accepts that she is a whore.

If she is giving less to other customers it's not because of a repulsion but because they aren't demanding as much and she isn't worried about them taking their business elsewhere.

Don't be an idiot an think you area rich stud because you paid a hooker for sex. That is unless you want to give me a good laugh.

-->"The main premise I disagree with is that "some girls are very choosy about who they do OTC/ITC with" and "she does things for me that I known she doesn't do with other customers""

I agree with that last part -- it's pretty unlikely that something she does for me, she doesn't do for anyone else. To me, though, it's an uncontroversial fact that some girls are choosey as to who they do OTC with, just as it's uncontroversial that YMMV exists and guys get different treatment from the same girl. In a brothel-like extras club, where the girls do everything for almost everyone, and it's just a matter of agreeing on price, that might not be as true. But, on the opposite extreme, at the high end no extras clubs I go to, even among my buddies, the girls deliver different things to different guys.

That doesn't mean that I think I'm a rich stud for paying a hooker for sex... in fact, I don't even know where that idea comes about, it's a strawman, no? All OP is saying, I think, is that there's uncertainty about finding a girl you like, getting her to do what he wants, at a price he wants... and he enjoys that uncertainty. Not that he's a stud for paying a hooker for sex.

@subraman: It's actually uncontroversial the other way around. Except for a few super inflated egos on this board it's acknowledge that if a girl is willing to do something for one customer she will for any other. Said that you have bought into the wishful thinking here that is otherwise.

My 2 cents...

Some strippers are completely open to OTC with anyone who will pay while others feel they need to get to know the John a little to feel safer before providing.

How hot a dancer is has no correlation with how willing they are to provide, but the hotter ones demand more $$$, usually because they can get it.

I don't how much uncertainty there is when over when the majority of girls these days are willing to do OTC if you that's what you want. Maybe it's just taking him a while to learn this.

I haven't noticed the hotter ones asking for money, except maybe the very first time out. And if they want $400 or more that seems an excellent indicator they will be no good anyway. After the first time once you have shown the "respect" their fees drop to the market norm.

One thing does not define all dancers - i.e. just like there are PLs w/ all types of SCing preferences from just tipping to extras-or-nothing, dancers are also all over the spectrum from air-dancer to "I'll fuck you right here on the main-floor"

I don't have OTC experience by choice, but I have been quoted/propositioned many times. I'll stand by my observations, but I actually agree with Dougster on this one as he is almost definitely more experienced than I in the arena of negotiating for OTC and repeat business.

I also agree with Papi. I wonder what makes him think that all us PLs don't have the same SC goals and taste in women. :-) Strippers are the same way, but I am willing to bet 90+% would give extras or OTC if the $$$ were good enough. Just some require more than others.

i think i am about at the limit at what i will spend on a particular girl in my attempt to have her cross the line of full on sex. she is just about the sweetest i have met and so far given me liberties in pleasuring her. she does have a boyfriend. this girl is a challange. i haven't tipped her much... butt have done maybe ten vip with her. i suppose i could just pull out a couple of bens and tease her with them.

It's definitely not the case that every girl does exactly the same thing for every guy -- all you have to do is compare notes with other PLs, or hell, compare notes with your buddy on the same girl on the same trip. That's why YMMV has been part of the PL lexicon for years, uncontroversially -- not because of wishful thinking, but because as soon as there was an internet, and started talking amongst ourselves, we saw YMMV. In addition, everyone who has become a regular has seen how some girls open up more possibilities as time goes on.

But, you don't have to agree with any of that, to know the following is true: when a PL goes into an SC and asks the girl he's most attracted to whether she'll meet him for OTC for $300, she might say yes or no. He can enjoy the search for that girl who meets his specs for the price he wants, without believing he's some super stud. And since it's also absolutely true that some girls just won't do OTC, but others resist but can eventually be swayed with time, again, he might enjoy getting them to say yes. In the past few years, AT LEAST half of the girls I OTCed with said "no" or "let me think about it" first...

I think you're a little confused, subraman, YMMV has referred to things like the club overall: time of day you visit and from girl to girl. And, yes, a large part of my conclusions are based on looking at reviews and seeing what is happening for others especially if others call the reviews out as she doesn't do that much or she does more. Zero evidence that it is anything other than uniform across the board.

Mostly it just makes sense. If your YMMV with the same girl but from customer to customer what factors are you thinking would determine who got more? Sounds like you are implying it's how long you have know the girl and been pushing for it? In that case my experience is very different from yours. It's best to just for what you want in the first three visits. But maybe I'm just the kind of guy (i.e. I am a rich stud after all) that girls naturally feel comfortable around. :-)

As for "everyone who has become a regular has seen how some girls open up more possibilities as time goes on" this proves nothing regarding mileage from customer to customer. All it shows is that the energy barrier to doing extras tends to break down overtime, but when it breaks I still say it's going to be for everyone. Again what would motivate a girl to offer some services to some customers but not others? All wishful thinking. You guys want to believe that you are getting more, but you're not.

I always thought YMMV meant you may or may not get mileage depending on the girl you choose, i.e. that it was dancer dependent as in some girls give mileage and some don't, not that it was custy dependent although that can be the case at times but I think it's mostly dancer dependent as in some do some don't

IME mileage may vary week to week with the same dancer.

"In addition, everyone who has become a regular has seen how some girls open up more possibilities as time goes on."

Yes this may be true but for the most part, 2 different first time(with a certain dancer) pl's will more or less get the same mileage/dances from the same girl.

"I always thought YMMV meant you may or may not get mileage depending on the girl you choose, i.e. that it was dancer dependent as in some girls give mileage and some don't, not that it was custy dependent although that can be the case at times but I think it's mostly dancer dependent as in some do some don't." I agree with this. Unless you give off a bad "vibe".

-->"Yes this may be true"

It's definitely true, and the mileage a regular can get can be decently far past what she normally offers -- that's the main reason to be a regular, IMO, and a big reason I'm an ATFer instead of a variety guy, even though both have their place

-->" but for the most part, 2 different first time(with a certain dancer) pl's will more or less get the same mileage/dances from the same girl."

I think "for the most part" is a fine amount of hedging. For the most part, but there's variations. Occasionally, the differences can be pretty big -- just SCing with groups of guys and comparing notes proves that, IME. And comparing reviews on review sites that review the girls in detail illustrates it in abundance... tuscl tends to be a club-review only place, though.

I feel like I"m in the twilight zone on the terms YMMV :) lol... I believe you guys if it's used here on tuscl as variations in the club or whatever, but as with escort or massage reviews, in previous forums, it was always applied to the dancer herself -- you may not get the same mileage as me, just as you might not get the same mileage from an escort, even though we're paying the same amount, and for the same reasons... she's just more comfortable than you, you're a regular she feels like rewarding a little, she's a little less repulsed by you than she is me, etc.

We used this term extensively in the now-defunct local SC forum in my area, because it was obvious -- YMMV. A girl might offer a BJ to everyone, but there's a good chance her favored regulars (she'll have some regulars she dislikes) are getting more

There's too many variables to say X Y Z is always the case - often times a custy gets more/better mileage by knowing what he's doing and being proactive, I've had plenty of PL-instances where things went farther than I ever anticipated by me taking the lead vs just sitting back letting her do her thing - there's just too many variables including what side of the bed she woke up on that day - but in the end IMO as long as we're are paying I feel it's a moot point - experienced SCers, particularly custies, just know how to get more for their $$$ than newbs.

Yeah, I'm not buying any of it. The evidence I've saw on a local SC forum and from TUSCL reviews completely contradicts the notion that there is a variance on mileage for regulars.

^ particularly custies meant particularly TUSCLers

this girl lets me rub her clit with my bare dick. butt no sex. i eat her pussy and give her a rim job... butt no sex. no bj either. maybe next time i'll flash some bens...

see what happens.

then pull back. let her come to me if she ever wants more. i honestly have spent more on her than almost any other girl in recent times.

Maybe it's just because I just a charming RICH STUD that I get the same mileage that regulars do the first few times I meet these girls. Or maybe mileage is just uniform across the board. Gotta go with the latter. :-)

I agree with Supra. I've noticed that the girls do different things for different customers. And of course there is the variable of how the girl is feeling at any particular day or night. Girls are choosy for the most part on what they do for whom.

Obviously these girls are motivated by money and so a lot of money will equal more boundaries crossed if the customer is so inclined to want to cross thise boundaries.

What Dougster is failing to acknowledge is that a lot of girls (civies included) react to vibes they received from men. Some men are naturals when it comes to making women feel safe comfortable and adventurous. Strippers are sharks for sure but even their alarms will go off. They can sense a creep they can sense a wimp and they can sense confidence and the guy who won't put up with their b*******. Because if there are a variation of men who go to clubs not one person can guarantee that every time you spend money on a stripper you will have the same experience Ergo your mileage will vary

• because there are a variation of men who go to strip clubs YMMV

Sure, there aren't any guarantees, but IMO the surest way to get what you want in a strip club is via $$$ not one's game w/ the caveat that newbs may often not get their money's worth and get played - if one is getting shit for free other than convo and company, then that's one thing. but if you are paying for it then you are paying for it

GACA: You've noticed, how?

"Girls are choosy for the most part on what they do for whom."

Certainly when they aren't doing these things for money but when it's job it's all different.

Dougster...these girls are trying to get the most amount of moneybfor the least amount of "work". Period. Its called the "hustle".

So it isn't a conventional job were there is an obligation to perform at a certain standard consistently at a standard rate of exchange.

If you are a man who isn't pushy or a little demanding ...damn right you could drop a Million and not get the same experience as a guy who understands the hustle can get for $100.

And I've noticed that some girls who feel that the customer who are "insiders" do more in some cases and less in others.

Its weird if you get to know them too well they put you in a friend zone, and I've seen them refuse $40 to dance.

On the other hand, for drug dealers and other non paying losers, hand jobs etc.

No these girls are not standardizing their performance across the board. They are savages and not all that professional for the most part. So to say that ones mileage don't vary...these girls do the samething for all customers ...where do you club I'd love to go there

Ok, GACA, I think I'm willing to buy that they will do more for guys who push for it then those who don't. Actually I stated that above.

Then back to subras point...to say it isn't a chase for some is ridiculous. These guys who are learning how to hustle. It is a thrill.

Not everybody can be a-rich smooth-talking Gordon Gekko like you

I see it more as negotiation to make sure that I get my money's worth vs a chase

It absolutely feels like a choice sometimes for the newbie.

Yeah later after the magic wears off you might realize it was always and negotiation and there really is no thrill. But I'd say that's the same in real life

*feels like a chase.

We need Juice to post and settle this

And actually Dougster. I think there are just two approaches to life in this society. People who believe that everything's a negotiation and people who believe in romance .. don't kill their dreams man...there is such thing as Santa Clause.

But seriously emotional connections can be made even in a strip club. Not the wisest thing to do, but it is possible. Ergo the chase.

Gordon Gekko don't give no shit about no emotions

:)

-->"Then back to subras point...to say it isn't a chase for some is ridiculous. These guys who are learning how to hustle. It is a thrill. Not everybody can be a-rich smooth-talking Gordon Gekko like you"

LOL ... spot-on. Just to be clear, though, I'm making a broader statement than that. Let's say you're playing blackjack, and the dealer deals you an ace ... and then, a blackjack. Are you happy about it? I sure am. Not because I"m a great gambler or "have game"... hell, all I did was sit there and, by pure luck, got the best outcome possible. I'm still pretty thrilled.

I am definitely not Gordon Gekko. I walk into the strip club and I don't even know if I'll find a girl I WANT to OTC with. Once I find her, I don't know if she'll say yes to OTC at the price I want, or if she'll do the activities I want. And, despite any claims to the contrary, my experience in real strip clubs (at least in the no-extras strip clubs I go to), not all strippers do everything with every customer and it's pretty common that a girl will tell me "Maybe... I need to get to know you better"... so now, this is my 3rd time seeing her after she told me that, and either I've earned her trust and she's going to finally say yes, or she was playing me and I'll have to let her go and move on.

Anyway, even as a grizzled old PL, I still enjoy the chase... not because I imagine I have game or the stripper is really really likes me -- it's fun to get that blackjack, regardless. While I have a hard time believing it, I suppose some of you might be going to extras clubs and scoring 100% of the OTCs you want, at the price you want, so there's never any uncertainty to it. Even then, hard not to believe you don't get a little thrill when she says yes. With me, there's loads of uncertainty.