Your definition of "upselling"

I agree with Chitown, I want to know what various kinds of activities are available. Sometimes the VIP room is a better deal than buying individual LDs. She's doing me a favor if she points that out. There are many different ways to upsell, ranging from very aggressive to very subtle. The latter will always work better on me and I don't mind it at all. An attractive, personable and talented dancer can always get me to spend more if she really tries. What I find amazing is how few really try.

FONDL, I agree, but my response was geared to the hypotheticals in the original question which laid out specific scenarios, both of which I'd find very annoying or even a scam.

FONDL, if that's upselling, then please write a book and spread the gospel. I don't think any of the upselling gurus preach such a humane definition. That's what I mean by, "Show, don't tell."

AN, I've gone from the LD room to the VIP room on numerous occsions and don't recall that the girl tried to talk me into it. But she obviously did something right. A good salesperson will get you to spend more but you'll think it was your own idea. A stripper doesn't have to mention it or ask you to do it, she only has to lead you to believe that it will be worth it to you and she can easily do that nonverbally. Which is the best kind. That's called upselling.

I'm probably a sucker, but I don't consider "upselling" necessarily to be a bad or exploitative practice. Sometimes upselling is simply using one sale to make me aware of another service that I may well want, but wasn't aware was available. This is particularly true if I am in a new club. I was in a club about three weeks ago where the VIP room was fairly discreetly concealed, and I wouldn't have known about it if a dancer hadn't told me. Experiences like that one are the reason why I like to sit with a dancer in a new club and have her explain the "lay of the land" to me.

FONDL, during a lapdance I think I might notice if she starts mentioning the VIP or champagne room. That would kill my mood. After the dance is fine, but while she is dancing I don't want to feel like she's already got her mind on something else. I at least want the illusion that she is trying to make me happy here and now. Minnow, I'd totally agree that not only the club, but the dancer should be identified if she tries to extort the tip after a VIP payment has been laid down. To me that is a scam and I'll move on ASAP. That's why I always "audition" dancers with some stage tips or regular laps before anything more. If you are getting a good show and contact with those it's kind of hard to claim that she doesn't do that in the VIP, unless you tip more. It makes the scam very obvious, more obvious than most dancers will be since they know (or should if they're any good at all) they'll never sell another dance to you after that.

AN: Sounds like good strategy for version#2. However, a club that would tolerate or encourage this kind of behavior should be "outed" on TUSCL reviews. This version is analagous to walking into rest. ordering hamburger, then after you've already paid $ for it, getting raw hamburger on bun, and told if you want a cooked HB, xxxtra$$$ is required. Are you gonna settle on $20 bun, or $40 hamburger??

With a good salesperson you won't even realize that they're upselling because they're very subtle about it. That's equally true of strippers.

I agree, if they're upselling on MY time (during the dance) rather than making me happy, that's a big red flag and they'll be politely dismissed after one dance. If I get asked for a tip before I've paid, the dance is off. If I get asked for a tip after I've paid, essentially extorting a tip by hinting an air dance is all you'll get in the VIP unless you shell out more in advance, as I said, never happened, but I think letting her know you'll decide to tip or not based on the dance is a good strategy. Moving on to the next dancer after the dance is also a good idea. All these behaviors are signs of a ROB sizaing you up.

I have experienced #1 before... a club here officers "hot tub dances" for something insane like $200 per 15 minutes. The dancers are notorious for basically implying/flat out saying that you will be getting extras if you buy them and then just delivering standard lap dance in water. It pisses me off because I am not paying $30 a song to hear a fucking sales pitch... more grind on my lap, less yap.

Any time a girl asks for a tip in advance that should be an automatic red flag. I believe every time I have encountered this the dancers have been scammers/air dancers. If they pull that shit after I have already paid for the dance, I try to just tell them if they go the extra mile you will tip when its done. I find it rude when a dancer asks for a tip, but asking for a tip *before* the services are rendered is completely inappropriate.

I don't think I've ever experienced the second variety of upselling, but I almost always "audition" dancers with tips on stage, and a basic couch dance. If I get a dance I like I'm glad to entertain thoughts of going to the next level, but if after some nice contact lapdances a dancer tried to tell me I needed to tip for anything in a VIP, well, it's never happened and I can't imagine a dancer being able to do it with a straight face, but I'd call that an attempted scam and call it off. That's why auditioning potential dancers is a must for me. If I get a story or vibe that starts to smell like a scam I move on quickly.

3) Sign that you are in a clip joint. 4) Grounds for immediate dismissal. Origin: Euphemism created by slimeball shyster/salesmen. Example: "Try upselling it to my ass, bitch. Now buzz off."

When I am buying a dance as an "upbuyer", I would hope that the dancer/saleslady would heed the advice given to creative writers: Show, don't tell.

The upselling I usually experience is of the first variety. I don't resent it, because the truth is, I am getting the couch dance to see if I want to go to VIP with the girl. The central feature of my strip club experience is the VIP, with the ideal being that I'll find a 2-4 attractive, congenial women to spend time with in VIP. Also ideally, they will complement each other...a latina; a MILF type, a flat-chested tall young girl, etc. So, I don't resent the upselling, because I am doing the same thing...I am "upbuying,": first paying the cover to get to look at girls on the stage, to find an attractive one; the, tipping at the rail to get an attractive girl's attention, and to get her to spend some time at my table, then upgrading to a couch/lapdance to see if she is appropriate sensuous and GFE-like. Finally, at the end of this stage, we get the VIP-able girl, and the race is on.

This fits in with my overall theory of capitalistic business that the market clears when the buyer can get what he wants, and the seller can get a reasonable price for providing what the buyer wants. Contrast this to the "exploitation" theories posted by some denizens of this board.

From my point of view as a customer, FONDL, that's a bad salesman. A good salesman facilitates my purchase of WHAT I WANT. If I've taken the trouble to travel to his store in response to his ad for discounted prices on shoes, he doesn't use my presence as a pretext to try to convince me I should want different shoes for which his margin or commission is greater. Even if he may grudgingly allow me to buy what I want, that is bait and switch, or, as it is euphemistically called, upselling. Intolerable in a shoe store or in a strip club.

A good salesperson always tries to upsell, eg. the auto salesman tries to convince you to get additional options on a new car. Or a shoe salesman tries to get you to buy the more expensive shoes because they're more comfotable. Nothing the least bit wrong with this as long as they are polite about it and willing to let you buy the cheaper model if that's what you really want. But they cross a line when they refust to sell you the cheaper model - that's called bait and switch.