Back to my ATF

NEOG, You know the answer. You're already at the "too much" marker--yoou've been making an investment for a payoff that is never happening. She knows what yhou want ant isn't cooperating, so any continued ivvestmentby you is going to be driven by an emotional fantasy, not reality. Now if you can still enjoy her basic dance company--fine, but don't overpay for basics.

She has more boundaries that you do right now. Your boundary for her needs to be no more investment in her well being until she takes care of you.

Use your big head, not the little one. She's not the one. If you do stop and I'm wrong/you're wrong, she'll eventually let you know. Move on to better hunting for peace of mind and the for the security of your wallet.

And, I wouldn't payoff a bouncer unless I know I'm getting real protection for it.

Dude, you're beating a dead horse. Ain't gonna happen and you'll empty your bank account trying.

Stay away from this girl if you can't control your actions. Or just stop visiting this club.

Don't be angry, don't be sad, Don't sit cryin' over good things you've had, There's a girl right next to you And she's just waiting for something to do.

Well there's a rose in the fisted glove And eagle flies with the dove And if you can't be with the one you love Love the one you're with

[Ok, the "girl right next to you" may be a skanky stripper, and what she wants to do is take your money, but you get the point, right?]

paying off the bouncer does not work unless you have become friends with him. If you straight up try to bribe him he will think you are Law Enforcement. If you chat with him a few visits, make him laugh, and buy him a couple drinks, etc. before bribing him then he might be cool with it. Even then this is still a maybe and is very risky. The dancers tip the bouncers good money to watch over them and he is not going to fuck up that cash flow over one customer's bribe. Just trying to be realistic with you. Of course YMMV. The bouncers also EXPECT your tips if you go to the VIP room at the clubs I go to. Usually like 10-20% of the total.

Personally she sounds like a ROB leading you on. Just move on. There are plenty of strippers out there. Don't fall for it if she tells you the VIP room will get better. Also if you are stupid enough to take her to VIP room don't pay with credit card!!! cash only!! You can try things like "if you can make me cum I will give you a big tip" and if you have plenty of cash on you she will believe it...but if you are paying with credit card then she'll think you are broke without any extra tipping money anyways. The tips on credit cards sometimes do not end up going to the strippers.

Also if you try to tip using credit card...the club will know about it and get suspicious if you tip something really high. Using cash, it can be like an "under the table" transaction and she will keep all the tip instead of having to split it or make the club get suspicious about her.

Also try loosening her up with alcohol or weed. Strippers usually love one or the other, or both. One stripper I liked and kept pushing for OTC but she kept declining...finally I found out about how she sells weed (from another dancer) and I brought it up to her. She instantly changed her view from me as a customer to an club insider and I was able to get in her pants. (I don't smoke weed myself but she probably thought I did).

She told me several times about how I should keep the weed a secret because she could lose her job over it. She seemed to forgot how she could lose her job for OTC, which is what she had said before to me.

Looks like the OP is the ultimate PL.

Just to counter Dougster's little ray of sunshine....

The question becomes, is she your ATF only because you are hoping to "plant your flag"? My ATF is not actually the girl that I get the most mileage from. And if I'm specifically looking for mileage, I go elsewhere.

I think you've probably maxed-out mileage-wise with this girl. So if she's only your ATF as an investment, then yeah, move on.

new definition for ATF = rent a wife?

If you are not getting what you want out of a relationship, it is time to move on.

Dougster, chill. They are not ALL lying, thieving whores. I helped my ATF get out of the business 2+ years ago. We have become the best of friends. She is the only one that has my number and address. I just wish we didn't live 200 miles apart. Also wish I was 30 years younger.

So far, it seems you are the perfect SC customer. Keep spending while looking for the end of that rainbow. That said, I would bet that each and everyone of us on here has done the same to one degree or another. I know I have, but for a different reason.

Now, if as you say, "...we have spent alot of time together, she is very familiar with me..." and she is going in the direction you wish. She may eventually get there. What matters is how much you are willing to shell out for that ride.

Neoguy - If your goal is OTC, you need to move on.

To answer your question: I call it quits after 2 dances if they don't fuck. In my club almost all of them do.

To answer some of the points:

She is my ATF because she does give the best dance in the place, is a great conversationalist, is very hot (love the pierced hood), respects when I say I am done, even though she knows there is more $ in the wallet, gives me a boner just by walking by and yes, because no matter how hard i try she won't give in to an OTC experience.

OP? Yes I know I am a PL, but only with her.

I have had other dancers try to convince me that the VIP room is better, blah, blah. I do not fall for their crap, i know better. I know what I am going to get there with each girl.

At my ATF's club, I know the bouncers "some" as it is my most frequented club. Most guys going to the VIP area never pay anything from what I see.

Clubber, that is what makes me a PL with this one. I am willing to shell out for the ride, no others in any club I go to make me think like this one does. The rest I just enjoy the dance and look for the next dancer.

Plant my flag, yup! And she is not the best mileage girl, just the best dance. She fits perfect in my lap...that girl's ass is too big, but her's is just right!!

And I never use a credit card, couldn't hide it from the SO. It is cash all the way.

neo,

No matter what anyone here says, it is possible to have a relationship with a dancer other than the dancer/customer one. Those of us that have that know this to be true. Others that haven't, well they are just ignorant of that possibility.

You fell off the wagon. Grab hold of it again and get on that ride away from there. There is no shame in moving on.

Clubber's right, too. Been there, done that. But the dancer you're describing doesn't fit the profile of that either.