I think we all "know" what prostitution is, or do we? You are in a hotel and go to the bar, see a hooker and hire her for sex, prostitution. You are in a hotel and go to the bar, see a woman, buy her a drink, take her to dinner, then to your room and have sex, not prostitution.
So where is the line crossed? Asking? Talking about it? Cash instead of drinks and a dinner? Someone knowing her occupation? Has to be something...
"It's not what you know. It's what you can prove." Denzel Washington in "Training Day."
how,
So you are saying what is tendered makes the difference? I think we both know that when a man takes a woman out, sex is most always an expectation of his.
In the past couple of weeks, I have had FS with 2 different dancers at my fav club. The first one sort of happened in the heat of the moment. Afterward, I asked how many dances we did. She said 5 (@ $20 each), then she said that a tip would be appreciated. So, ultimate mileage, but unplanned expense = $100 max in my book. She was happy with total of $200.
The second "happening" was with a really hot chick that I've been wanting to f***. She knew we were at that point in our dancer-PL relationship, and started our session with, "I'll let you stick it in for $200."
Based on the previous discussion here, it's pretty obvious that the second event was prostitution (I hate that term.....), but would the first one be considered pros.... or a tip for really great dances??
You guys sure like to kid yourselves. The answer is "If you have to ask..."
Even without the tip, you paid her for dances that included sex. Even without the sex, lap dances are usually a form of prostitution. If they're any good, that is.
"Direct payment for sex = prostitution"
Here in Florida it means the giving or receiving of the body for sexual activity for hire, but excludes spouses and also sexual activity done for bona fide medical purposes.
In Alaska, prostitution is engaging in or agreeing or offering to engage in sexual conduct in return for a fee; or offering a fee in return for sexual conduct. So don't offer the spouse a fee to engage in sexual conduct.
BTW, when I hire a prostitute her engaging in sexual activity isn't required. We can discuss politics or sports or just watch the movie channel. Agreeing to X dollars for a specified sexual activity, excluding dances, leaves me cold. Funny thing is there supposedly are other customers who aren't focused on the sex act or sexual activity. My focus? Time (OTC, only). I'm paying for her time. It is the rare prostitute, ime, who'd rather spend the time talking or sitting in silence rather than engaging in sexual activity---not because they love sexual activity, but as one dancer put it talking is more work. :)
One of the former posters here said she made good money just for ordinary conversation. Doesn't surprise me at all.
nmdv26, I'd say the first one was prostitution as well, i'm sure our respective definitions are the same. You may have seen the tip as a payment for an 'exceptional' dance but in the final analysis a payment wasmade for a sexual act. Other people may have a different opinion.
I hate to say it but under TUSCL Bro's scenario marriage/SO would qualify as prostitution. I'll have to remember that line next time arguing.
Bro, without a quid pro quo understanding, I would say that's in a gray area, as are a lot of examples.
Actually, I often see the marriage/SO comparison made as a defense of whoremongering. I think it only makes the case for mongering sound weak. If you enjoy whores, I don't see any need to justify it.
Most of the marriages/SO relationships that I see are very much like prostitution. Of course, those marriages are a mess. Perhaps other people see lots of happy marriages. I see the wife trading sexual favors for cash or services and the husband looking for a better sex deal from a co-worker, prostitute, etc. Another way the marriages are like prostitution is the ignored wife. Just as the pimp pretty much makes his hoes work for his sexual attention seems like many husbands put their wives on the back burner---begging for sex. Prostitution just seems faster paced and more honest. Please remember, the relationships that I see are by and large a complete mess and that might be just a reflection of the people that I know.
Clubber asked, "So you are saying what is tendered makes the difference? I think we both know that when a man takes a woman out, sex is most always an expectation of his."
No, it's not so much "what is tendered" as the "directness" of the exchange. If you give a gal a present explicitly in exchange for a negotiated sex act, that is prostitution. But if you pay your girlfriend's phone bill (or even hand her the cash to pay that bill), when you two subsequently have sex, that does not equal prostitution.
Otherwise, all sex would be potentially labeled prostitution. That is as ridiculous as the hardcore-feminist claim "all sex is rape."
The "all sex is prostitution" claim hinges on the belief that women don't enjoy sex and only consent to it in order to receive some form of compensation. Which we know isn't true, right?
A woman can love sex more than the man and still see it as primary bargaining tool. Equating prostitution with marriage doesn't, imo, mean "all sex is prostitution." Or, a woman can love sex and not use it to her negotiating advantage----much rarer, imo.
"all sex is prostitution" is more based upon the giving of something to get something and really has little bearing on who likes sex. If I am not mistaken, women also engage males for prostituted sex. Rather than not liking sex, women just have learned better how to get what they want.
Another HUGE myth: All prostitutes hate or dislike sex with their customers. That may be the norm, but some prostitutes happen to love sex whether you're paying or not.
You're such a PIMP T-Bro, start looking over your shoulder, LE is on the way! But then on the other hand, you could be her Director of Business Development.
Seems like many of you are proving my point, but I think how said it best, "...it's not so much "what is tendered" as the "directness" of the exchange."
That said, how does one measure or even define "directness"?
T_Bro be big-pimpin'...
j/k
Your wife offers pussy in exchange for your mowing the lawn. In Florida that's not consider prostitution because she's your wife. Your neighbor's wife offers pussy in exchange for a mowed lawn and now we've got a crime wave.
With some religions you can marry a woman for 15 minutes and since she is your wife, money for sex isn't considered prostitution. At least marriage is good for something.
We all know that we do not pay prostitutes for sex. We pay them to leave when the sex is over.
Good point CW, I remember reading an interview w/Charlie Sheen many years ago where he made that point also.
It's too simple...
If you fuck someone you don't want to fuck, it's prostitution.
CW: that might be true for Charlie Sheen and some others, but for some of the complete losers on here, like MisterGay, they are paying for sex since that's the only way they can get any.
I look at it like this. A wife is like an ownership transaction. Doing a gal at a motel and paying her money afterwareds is more like leasing. Sometimes it is better to lease than buy. The gal (stripper) I am currently leasing ($150 ITC, $200 motel) is very good in bed, one of best I have had in long time; been doing her slightly more than a year, 2-3 times week. She is married, but I guess this makes him a cuckhold allstar. Nowadays, I like leasing a lot!
"If you fuck someone you don't want to fuck, it's prostitution."
Really? So, now a mercy fuck is prostitution . . . that is so twisted. :) Or, maybe it is you fuck someone for profit who you don't want to fuck, it is prostitution. And, what is the deal when the woman fucks a man for money, but she'd be happy to do it for free?
It seems we "experts" on prostitution can't even figure it out, yet police, lawyers, judges, and many in the general population "know" exactly what it is! I think not!
The real definition is the act of engaging in sexual activity in exchange for money or goods. Legally it's certainly not defined that way. For example, the old casting couch was women engaging in sexual activity in exchange for a job. Now, that's sexual harrassment.
The most expensive piece of ass I ever got was when I said "I do" After 27 years of marriage and 6 years of divorce, I am still paying for it. A prostitute would have been so much cheaper.
Is a paid GFE (say dinner and conversation- no physical contact )illegal? From what I can tell "escort" services such as this are also illegal even though they are devoid of a physical component.
Danton,
I don't see how that could be illegal, unless there is a law against "escorts", or some other nutty local law..
Direct payment for sex = prostitution
Gratuities not obliging the recipient to repay with sexual favors = not prostitution, but consensual activity