How many billions of dollars has the US spent defending Ukraine? While we're spending our money to defeat Russia, Germany is buying oil from Russia, enabling Russia to continue the war. We're being taken advantage of. This betrayal provides the motivation for us to exit NATO. I wouldn't mind making all nations pay us for providing safe passage thru thr strait. We need to remove all our troops from Europe. If Russia runs over them, too bad. At least Russia won't put up with the muslims.
We've opened the strait of hormuz, where was NATO?
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I'm all for charging an Escort Fee to provide safe passage through the SOH. Why not? NATO is just a limp dick. The main shipment we need through the Strait is fertilizer. Something like 80% of US farmers bout fertilizer before Epic Fury and are OK. They'll need more for Fall planting so this thing needs to have a nice bow put on it ASAP.
Meanwhile, the ME countries allowed Iran to become this 800AD Islamic Kraken, and never worked to dampen it.
Some Iranian guy is talking to Xi this week, I bet Xi tells him to get the surrender over as they are not going to win.
The problem is the IRGC has the guns. The IRGC is like the Black Knight in The Holy Grail missing an arm & leg thinking it is invincible. Trump will just use our military like Excalibur and finish it off. When? it's anyone's guess.
We should have just eradicated Kharg Island.
I’m going to answer the thread question as if it wasn’t rhetorical, but everyone already knows this. NATO is in Ukraine picking up the slack from when we pulled back. I don’t necessarily think that’s a bad thing for us. The security of Ukraine should be more important to the European members of NATO because, geography.
Re Iran, a reminder that NATO aiding other members is a defensive requirement. To have them join in an offensive, it seems it should be by request and agreement. We jumped into a war without asking if NATO would back us, said we didn’t need them, then said we did. In the process we broke the global supply market. Should they help us? Are we showing we’re a reliable ally who will stick with our commitments to other countries?
Anyway, I didn’t want this war, but now that we’re in it? We need to go get the nuclear material and install a new government. That’s never really worked before but against the current situation of the same regime with more hardline ayatollah while still having their nuclear material and the knowledge they can shut down the strait? That’s a mess we cannot leave.
It would not have changed or interfered with NATO's ability to aid Ukraine if they had allowed us to use our joint bases. That's a false argument. The changes in material support to Ukraine would have been minimally affected if NATO had sent naval assets to assist the US mission. Again, to argue that they were too busy aiding Ukraine is false.
The problem is that European NATO countries have lost their moral compass. Look at the big brother restrictions on free speech, religious liberties, and erosion of all personal freedoms. In a manner only dreamt of by American liberals, they have elevated Muslim and African immigrants beyond native born citizens to being above the law and beyond prosecution, surrendering to pacifist rot an Islamification. They have long ridden America's coattails and hidden their weakness behind our expeditionary forces, but this recent refusal to allow us to conduct military operations for the sake of global order is pure treachery.
And another thing on Europe, Ukraine, and Russia. Remember that Trump warned them against becoming dependant on Russian gas and they did it anyway. As we were gifting money and arms to Ukraine, as Europe was demanding we given our money and arms to Ukraine, that same Europe was giving money to fund Putin's war effort and buying his gas while he was sanctioned for everything else.
@TheOne&Only I agree with you to an extent, that it would be an american liberal dream to have africans and maybe even other immigrants above the law. But what about the american conservative dream? The conservative dream is to have jews and non immigrants above the law- different rules for immigrants or naturalized citizens vs birth citizens.
@Hank_Moody per tucker carlson and john kirakou iran was never a theocracy, and was a military dictatorship. That ayatollah you mention probably isnt around. Why do you think hes never been seen..?
Perhaps you did not realize this, but NATO is a DEFENSIVE alliance. Being a NATO member does not give a country carte blanche to go attack anyone they want and demand the support of other NATO members. However, if a NATO member is attacked, then they should expect support from all other NATO members according to article 5. NATO members have no obligation or expectation to assist the US in perusing an offensive war--especially not a war that is actually in service of Israel-- a non NATO member.
...Well, maybe they would like to peruse the war but certainly not pursue it.
@fatdan99 you made good points but theone&only has stated he considers netanyahu (alongside trump) to be the most moral and righteous of all the world leaders. And skibum has stated he believes netanyahu should run the show and make all the decisions since he thinks trump is too dumb and doesnt like him.
They both also claim israel has the right to kill and steal from non jews and non american. Lol
Changing the subject a bit here but looks like we’re about coming to the end of this “little excursion.” Things can certainly turn on a whim of Trump, but all signs are pointing to:
- Strait opened up
- Iran agrees to stop trying to enrich uranium to weapons grade for X years
- inspections by some world nuke regulator
- we lift sanctions and release their money
Looks a helluva lot like the Obama Iran deal that republicans screamed about with the sunsetting provisions and payment of funds. Most likely it will be more restrictive and we blown up a lot of shit, so it’s an improvement, but was the cost worth it? Could Mr. Art of the Deal have negotiated an improved deal without the war? If you asked him, I bet he’d say yes.
What cost? Further division between us and our allies, broken global supply chain, loss of American lives, depleted weapons, showing Russia, China and Iran how we’d fight a modern war (some good here too) and the actual dollars to fight the war.
No deal agreed to yet so maybe end result is different, but posting this as my prediction of the likely result. I don’t think I’m Kreskin. This always seemed the most likely result.
Nato is just country welfare for our fake friends and pretend allies. Nato is the United States, covered by leeches. Ukraine is a European issue and we shouldn't be helping or spending a cent there. The idea we pay to defend Spain is sickening. They're closer to an enemy than any other country in Nato and are beyond useless as an ally.
NATO succeeded in keeping the most powerful army in the world from invading Western Europe, eventually defeating that army politically while avoiding a major war. Hence, NATO is rightly described as the most successful alliance in history by historian types. You can be winey bitch about it, but NATO fucking works.
NATO stands for Needs America To Operate.
Fatdan - You mean it worked, past tense.
🔺 NATO is too chicken to get in in involved, other countries don't want retaliation or proxy fighting, terrorism, rise of their gas & oil prices etc.....
✅ ' Opening the Strait is a narrowed part of the war, so maybey they felt like they could just skimp out.
@ ThePuddyTat
Has any NATO country ever been invaded? NO!
Is Russia going to invade a NATO country? NO!
Thus, NATO still works, despite what the folks in the Putin appeasement party say.
NATO is a ridiculous anachronism. It was necessary when Europe was poor and in ruins after WW2 and we wanted to stop the aggressive spread of Soviet communism. UK, Germany, France, Italy, Turkey are all fully recovered and rich. Also the Soviet hegemony doesn’t exist anymore. There’s no reason for US taxpayers to pay for rich European countries defense so they can have universal healthcare, terrific highways, new bridges, high speed rail, etc while the American people have not.
@fatdan99 the republican party definitely isnt the putin appeasement party. Look at what guys like lindsay graham have said about putin. Its a small minority, maybe even under 10%, who are pro putin.
That puddytat guy you quoted hates commies, considers china/russia to be communist states and has fantasies of wiping out their peoples. Oh yeah and he also claims to have moviestar looks that he receives compliments on from random people. Lol.
“NATO is a ridiculous anachronism.”
That’s one perspective but I think too narrow. My perspective is that NATO’s usefulness has evolved. It’s good that Europe is spending more on defense (and by extension, buying more US weapons) but we get a huge benefit by not having everyone armed to the teeth. There are only 9 countries in the world with nukes and that’s largely because we guaranty that we’ll come to the defense of any member if attached. That’s a good thing and a main cause of the US and Russia previously able to negotiate reductions in nukes (which are expiring and not being renewed).
We are always going to have differences with China and Russia, but the more allies we have the better because it ties into our economy. As the biggest and most wealthy nation in the world, we need other countries so that we can function efficiently. It’s not perfect and we have to figure out how to replace our offshored manufacturing, but it’s hard to complain about everyone taking advantage of us when you see the amount of wealth and prosperity this country has seen in the last 50 years. I was a child in the 70’s but I remember being a lot poorer.
@Hank_Moody
Some of the stuff in your post can be debunked by econ 101.
The offshore manufacturing is actually a good thing and part of why America, both American companies and consumers are richer.
The reason that offshore manufacturing occurs in the first place is because of cheaper labor laws in these foreign countries.
And that labor is cheaper in these countries because there is slave labor and no minimum wage laws.
So, you can bring back manufacturing to America… but you also need to legalize slavery again and get rid of minimum wage laws entirely. And part of that would entail having some sort of process to allow immigrants to work for those cheap labor rates. And when I say legalize slavery im not saying enslave people based on race, just referring to slave labor the same way companies like apple or nike etc have used it in the past.
But if your trying to bring manufacturing back to America, but also want minimum wage laws, and on top of all that, want to completely stop poor immigrants from entering the country, that would be a completely laughable, nonsensical scenario. That would basically mean you would be paying triple or even 4x or 5x the price of an Iphone or nike sneakers. Who the hell wants to pay quadruple prices for basic consumer goods…? All because of “bringing jobs back home”
✅ 🔺 TRUMP - XI | STRAIT UPDATE :
🤠_ - - - ' 👍 thumbs up | Donald Trump
Why is this idiot selling oil to China?
Putin appeasement? Is that the "more latitude after the election" and "Minor incursion" party?
@fatdan99
Was and USSR country ever been invaded? NO!
Were any former Soviet republics invaded? YES!
Thus, the USSR and Warsaw Pact worked, despite what the folks in the Putin's Peoples' Democrat Appeasement Party say.
Don't worry, everyone, Putin ran back into his bedroom and locked the door after Biden gave him his List of 10 Things Off Limits.
^ 10 things Russians can't hack = Vlad, you can fuck us in the ass, but please use lube!
Dems say hurr durr Trump Putin but who keeps giving Putin our asshole? Dems.
🟣 We might as well : | Add Purple @ Trump's Line-up
@ TheOne&Only
Actually the Soviet Union was invaded en.wikipedia.org
The Warsaw Pact was a second-rate NATO imitation. It served the purpose of keeping the West out of Eastern Europe until the SU could no longer support/enforce it. Both alliances succeeded in clearly demarcating red lines that the other side could not cross without causing a disastrous war.
But you know, rereading the comment, I need to take Mark Twain's advice.
You know you can search, “Muslim population of Russia” right… also theyre allies of Iran