When OTC Breaks You In VIP
IWantHerOnMe
I'd live this way again
I wrote this first paragraph in a review I posted , and I should've sliced out this part and made an article out of it. I edited it here for clarity:
You wanna know why dancers are turning to sugaring? It’s better deal for all involved. The dancers don’t have to tip out or deal with managers or house moms or broke/cheap ACTUAL PLs wasting there time. And what’s the counter? Sugaring is in a legal grey area? So is what these started-an-account-a-week- ago-2 line-review-writing-USASEXGUIDE/LEOs dolts unsubtlely blurt out about club VIP on Tuscl. Is it that stripping is more sustainable? Clubs are being persecuted across the country. Give me a break. It makes no sense to me.
In my area, single bed hotel rooms can run from 35-50 dollars on a normal day, for the whole day. Security on the premises, pool access and premium cable in the single bed room area as well. Lyft/Uber to a hotel close to a club and to where a typical dancer might live is 10-15 dollars both ways plus tip to the driver, if the dancer needs an Uber and if your squeamish about a dancer knowing what you drive like I am. At worse I'm out 100 bucks for the room and the ride to and from the hotel.
VIP rooms in the most popular clubs in my area run from 35 dollars to 110 for a half hour on dayshift. The cheaper the room, the less likely it is they allow ITC extras freely and easily. Plus, you have cover that ranges from 5 to 20 bucks that might go up for special event (I'm a cord cutter and I don't have a pool so doing OTC, bringing a snack and watching the game in a hotel room or by the pool is better than paying more money to watch it in a loud bar) , parking charges as well, tip walk, possibly a drink minimum of 2, music you don't want to hear, drugs you don't want to see, do or smell, girls you don't want to be bothered by, other men you don't want to be bothered by, staff to tip and a possibly lousy and not private bathroom. It might be better if you eat in clubs but I've done that once in my life.
Which set up is better? It gets hard to do VIP if your in a area that is like this.
You wanna know why dancers are turning to sugaring? It’s better deal for all involved. The dancers don’t have to tip out or deal with managers or house moms or broke/cheap ACTUAL PLs wasting there time. And what’s the counter? Sugaring is in a legal grey area? So is what these started-an-account-a-week- ago-2 line-review-writing-USASEXGUIDE/LEOs dolts unsubtlely blurt out about club VIP on Tuscl. Is it that stripping is more sustainable? Clubs are being persecuted across the country. Give me a break. It makes no sense to me.
In my area, single bed hotel rooms can run from 35-50 dollars on a normal day, for the whole day. Security on the premises, pool access and premium cable in the single bed room area as well. Lyft/Uber to a hotel close to a club and to where a typical dancer might live is 10-15 dollars both ways plus tip to the driver, if the dancer needs an Uber and if your squeamish about a dancer knowing what you drive like I am. At worse I'm out 100 bucks for the room and the ride to and from the hotel.
VIP rooms in the most popular clubs in my area run from 35 dollars to 110 for a half hour on dayshift. The cheaper the room, the less likely it is they allow ITC extras freely and easily. Plus, you have cover that ranges from 5 to 20 bucks that might go up for special event (I'm a cord cutter and I don't have a pool so doing OTC, bringing a snack and watching the game in a hotel room or by the pool is better than paying more money to watch it in a loud bar) , parking charges as well, tip walk, possibly a drink minimum of 2, music you don't want to hear, drugs you don't want to see, do or smell, girls you don't want to be bothered by, other men you don't want to be bothered by, staff to tip and a possibly lousy and not private bathroom. It might be better if you eat in clubs but I've done that once in my life.
Which set up is better? It gets hard to do VIP if your in a area that is like this.
36 comments
I can't unsee this title. Breaks you how? Is it the value proposition? I can't really do the cheap hotels around my area because they look terrible in videos but I understand the appeal.
That doesn't mean you can cut out the club entirely though. They still serve a purpose, to put the two sides together and facilitate the development of a rapport. Some folks seem to be fine with using the internet to post/view ads and just meet up, but I'd rather not get into that. I much prefer meeting a dancer at a club, spending some time chatting and maybe having a drink, doing some dances or maybe more. Generally just getting familiar with one another and making sure we'd be comfortable in a more private situation. Then, it makes sense for the two of us financially to take it OTC. As you said, neither of us has to pay the variety of fees that feed the club. I can pay less, she can make more; win-win.
As far as a counter goes, the club still has a value in providing that fertile ground for the introductions. If the club fails, IMO the alternate options for setting up similar arrangements are much less appealing to me than the club.
So I wouldn't say OTC breaks or ruins ITC. I'd say the approach that works for me is using the club as a way to facilitate OTC. Sure, I spend a little more at the club than I would on something like Seeking but I get some enjoyment out of the club itself, vs scrolling through profiles online which I find tedious. My success rate in-person at clubs is also much higher than online. Perhaps my online technique just sucks, but I'm not inclined to invest in it as long as clubs remain a viable option.
In my limited experience with sugaring a few years back, I found that PPM sugaring was literally the same cost as OTC, except that it required a lot more time and effort to get set up and to maintain.
On the other hand, a continuous, sustained SB relationship provided a much better (some might say too good) GFE experience, resulting in better, more meaningful sex, and more quality time together, but it was significantly more expensive in both time and money than standard OTC. In this scenario, it was much less transactional, and I was paying a monthly “allowance” regardless of how many times we got together. Add in the cost of dinners, occasional travel, and gifts, and this type of sugaring gets nearly as expensive as a wife.
However, the real cost of this SB relationship was that we both developed real feelings for each other and when I ended the relationship she began trolling my wife and kids’ social media and threatened to expose me.
1. Security. A club is safer for me and the sw.
2. Convenience. Sc’s are open many hours a day and I can drop in when I want.
3. Anonymity. I don’t know her name, she doesn’t know mine. In sugaring, that line will be harder to hold, open the door for bleedover into my civvie life.
4. Low emotional baggage. I’m much less likely to have to hear about a strippers personal bs, than with a sb who sees me as some kind of male figure in her life.
5. Deniability. I sneak into the sc and sneak home after. What happens in the vip is known to two people only. Nobody is going to see me a the bar or restaurant with a stripper. This is not true of the sb.
Costs… I suppose this depends on many factors. There are cheaper dancers who will fuck you in the lda for $100. There are others who want $700+ for a handy in the $70 vip. Whores, AB’s etc will have varying prices as well, based on looks, age, etc.
I tried to do sugar dating a bit with www.whatsyourprice.com . It's a haystack to search for a needle in, if your goal is PPM, with someone who's at least as a good as a better escort, and maybe more willing to let you actually get to know her a bit. All the other sugaring websites, like seeking.com , seem inexplicably expensive to me, relative to the service they offer.
The problem with spending a lot of time with a particular stripper is, they usually have an at best mediocre relationship with their SO. So they start to see their regulars as kinda supplemental SOs, rather than simply good customers. You quickly realize they see it as normal that relationships with SOs are power-struggle hellscapes. I'm not trying to be down on strippers, from what I've seen, most people see it as normal that relationships are power-struggle hellscapes. I've only had two OTC favs without issues like this. One was Black American and the other is a Cuban immigrant. I think the odds are probably best with Latina immigrants. It's not easy for them to make it here, and that filters for self-defeating people. Got to be self-defeating if power-struggle hellscape relationships are your pattern.
For anyone who remembers all agonizing that went on here during during the COVID lockdowns by mongers who built their hobby houses out of straw, those who don't get the value in diversifying your gameplan should print this quote out and tape it up somewhere.
@iknowbetter I definitely think its a market thing, but the other thing about hotels is a time thing. All day for however much money vs 30 minutes to an hour. I've heard dancers say there are some places they wont show up to for any price and that's fine but also in my area the gun laws are pretty lax and I can keep them safe from arruval to return as long as they don't have a pimp. I also basically sugar my ATF at this point, and that's the only person Ive ever tried it with. She's no hassle to the point that I didn't think of it as sugaring, mostly because there is no monthly allowance.
@ilbbaicnl I cant get into escorts in my area they are all not even close to hot in my experience. The extras culture is so heavy hear you can meet way hotter women down to escorts ITC and take them out or go to VIP.
@wallanon Its for sure a value proposition. At least in my area.
@dolfan I agree cutting out the club is a non starter. Your approach is similar to mine.
AI Overview
According to available information, the "Follies Day Shift" at Vivid, a club in Atlanta, Georgia, started on December 7, 2020 with the grand opening of the club; marking the beginning of their daytime entertainment featuring the Follies performers.
Key points about the Follies Day Shift at Vivid:
Date started: December 7, 2020
Location: Vivid club, Atlanta, Georgia
Daytime entertainment: The "Follies Day Shift" refers to a daytime period with performances by the Follies dancers
1) Shower/bathroom
2) Bed and other furniture better than almost all clubs (maybe a club or 2 in E St.L are the exception)
3) Doors mostly likely lock/lack of worrying about security
I also think Seeking is a better alternative in places like Boston where there is a high college presence and density.
Second best is OTC'ing on the road while on business where I don't have to pay for the room
Third best is dayuse.com. In my market, rooms at hotels that wouldn't creep the girl out are hard to find for less than $200. On dayuse, you can book 8 hours at nice hotels for half that. I pick ones with a nice bar, where we can have a proper drink, and maybe a nosh, before heading upstairs. Plus, there's no cancellation fee, in case she flakes
IME most dancers would prefer to make their money ITC if they can. This is why OTC is much harder to find in clubs where the girls are already making bank. Safety, convenience and efficiency considerations all lean in favor of keeping it ITC.
When girls agree to OTC, IME it's almost always because things aren't going well ITC and/or the offer is enough to be worth a supplemental side stop before or after a club shift. Bur if she's already cleaning up ITC, good luck enticing her OTC.
On a related note, I've known a number of dancer in my area who tried Seeking as another potential source of income, but didn't last long when they learned what the local market was for SBs. They universally found the numbers to be too low for their liking vs. their earning potential ITC.
Anyway, it is what it is.
Dude, IME a girl with kids is much MORE likely to do OTC, SO or not. It's amazing how a girl's moral compass shifts when she has kids to provide for and the only thing her POS SO is any good for is some semblance of babysitting.
And while I don't disagree that it's possible to get a dancer to skip a shift, I do disagree that her expectations will necessarily be pegged to what she "likely could have made." More often I have found that dancers peg it on what they could make on a very good night. This is an important distinction because that higher expectation is often more than most club hounds would pay for a single OTC adventure.
So for those reasons, I have always found it easier to arrange OTC immediately following the ends of their shifts or on very slow club nights. Not many girls are going to give up a coveted weekend night unless you offer them a boatload of cash to miss what they MIGHT be able to make.
That you knew of. You think their SOs are the only ones they lie to? 😉
Whether they admit it or not, they almost all have SOs man. Some just don't want to admit it because they've learned that it turns some guys off. Others lie about it to protect their privacy.
Bacon!!
Bacon!
@JimGass Your right about it being situation dependant
Most hotels I have been to all charge more than $50. The cheapest hotel rooms I have seen are at least $89 and they are definitely bottom of the barrel. A few of them have a roach problem.
Some dancers straight up refuse to go to them. I've learned a hard lesson with motel and hotel arrangements, which is the main reason I tend to prefer ITC when possible.
I agree that OTC is a actually better, so long as you and the dancer agree on the hotel. Women can be extremely picky. I've met at least 3 women who have told me it basically has to 3 Star or above. A different set of dancers want 4 star (and I haven't spoken with them since).
While I agree with @ IWantbheronme on most discussions, this is one where I would suggest some caution and ask the dancer for input before spending money.
Ilb, they almost all have SOs, lol. After all, how long do you really think a hot young woman is going to remain single?
They are just conditioned to lie about it. Some club customers need the fantasy that they are available in order to spend money on them. Others will judge them for rubbing on other guys when they are attached. So it's easier for many girls to just always answer the question in the negative.
I "send" one dancer money, all the rest get paid when they get there. I also tell them where I'm willing to go and what I'm willing to spend. If they aren't down, thats on them. Its not a matter of agreement I don't negoatiote with dancers.
And tons of dancers say they won't do something I know from personal experience they do actually do. If you got burned for sending a dancer money for OTC and then she didn't want to go to a certian hotel, or uses that as an excuse not to show up and just pocket the money, then that's what you get for paying up front.
An OTC fave that I see at her place couldn’t possibly be living with anybody. Hot as she is, I don’t think anybody could put up with the mess
For me however, it's usually only been the ones who've claimed, truthfully or not, to be single who are willing to meet OTC.