Trumpers, how patient are you?

Trump has no policies. Hes not president.

@PT sounds like you are assuming the tariffs are just a bluff that will work (whatever work means, I sure don't know). And a backed off version of the level of deportations talked about in the campaign was always the real plan.

The men responsible for those two murders where not known criminals. So how is deportation of known criminals going to prevent such murders in the future?

I agree with those who say Hamas should be destroyed. Is Trump going to get Hamas to agree to be destroyed voluntarily?

What peace in Ukraine? Neville Chamberlain brought peace to Europe for about a year, was that a good peace?

Stock market has been humming in 2024.
Fentanyl deaths have decreased since the late 3rd quarter of 2023 to now. GDP grew again in the 3rd quarter. Gas prices have repeatedly fallen over the past 9 months. Trump will inherit a pretty good economy right now.

The American people voted in the last election cause they believed Trump when he said he would lower prices at the grocery store. That will be the true measure if the American people can get a box of Captain Crunch for $3.00.

No, I can't concede I was wrong about anything I was never in favor of. I don't feel I can do anything but guess what the specifics of Trump's real plans are.

If Trump's economic policies cause no more harm than Biden's did, I'll be OK with them. But, I think any judge who doesn't think elective abortion in at least the first trimester is a civil right is a threat in general to basic civil rights. I will not vote for anybody who publicly solicits the commission of violent crimes. I will not vote for anyone who will not voluntarily return government property, classified documents or whatever, in their possession. I will not vote for a President who does not think a major riot in the District of Columbia requires his immediate attention and action. I think anyone who's worked and made a positive contribution to the US for many years should be given a path to citizenship.

I guess "destroyed" can mean different things. After 9/11, Al Qaeda was reduced from an organization to little more than a brand for violent salafists. Israel should destroy Hamas at least to that degree before ending the war. I think that's how Israel sees it, and I don't see Trump pressuring them to accept less.

Do you think it was wrong for FDR to help the British before Pearl Harbor, because they were in great danger of defeat, and were suffering a lot of casualties? It should be up to the Ukrainians to decide to concede any of their rightful territory to stop the fighting. For the US to cut support is like having cancer, and hoping it will go away by itself after you stop the chemo.

Good610 has it exactly right. Bidenomics largely worked, and Trump will inherit a fairly strong economy.

Trump will have to do more than ride his predecessor's coattails, like he did last time, to be credited with having any real impact. For example, if unemployment goes below Biden's 50 year low of 3.4%, that would be to Trump's credit.

What if scenarios have no place in politics. Trump isnt president
Biden is.

The most important criticisms of all Presidents are subjective. Many blame Trump for the lethality of the pandemic, even thought that wasn't unique to the US. Many blame Biden for the spike in inflation, even though that wasn't unique to the US. Both accusations are legitimately debatable, thus subjective.

It can't be proven that Trump intended for Jan 6 to get out of hand. Once it got out of hand, his response to it proves he's questionable competent to wipe his own ass.

The Empire of Japan was not an existential threat to the US. But it attacked US territories anyways, because that's how expansionist powers, like Russia under Putin, tend to behave. The cause of the Ukrainians is just, they are still willing to fight, and they are weakening an expansionist power. The money spent to support their fight does more for US security than a lot other US military spending. I don't see the relevance of mine or someone else's ignorant opinion about what concessions the Ukrainians should or shouldn't make.

It's true that Hamas is more afraid of Trump than Biden, as they had hopes of Biden's political base pressuring him to reduce the effectiveness of Israeli operations in Gaza. But, again, I don't think that matters, given that Israel wants to kill or capture all members of Hamas associated with its violent missions. Israel will only accept Hamas's unconditional surrender, and Hamas won't be scared into doing that, by anything.

^ the one point you’re discounting which is the flaw in your argument is pretty basic, right now under Joe Biden, like him or hate him, the Syrians have just completely changed the narrative and balance of power. Overnight the Iranians have become superfluous and Russian influence in the Middle East has become pretty weak, and all of this creates a huge bonus for the Ukrainians. Just think who would have predicted that the Iranian attack on the state of Israel and the United States response would completely change the paradigm in the Middle East, of course we need to give Hamas some credit for this, after all they started this at the urging of Iran, who are themselves a Russian client state.
This chapter is yet to be written but it is imperative upon Trump as he takes office not to fuck this up and help the Russians and the Iranians to climb out of this massive mess they’ve created. My opinion is the first step to solidifying this new order will be to help Ukraine kick the shit out of Russia, and keep them unable to get out of the war they started without paying a heavy price. The rest depends entirely on how much Trump extracts from Putin.

^ Despite the fact based claim, that the Ukraine is running out of soldiers, they are still in the fight and willingly, they aren't asking for boots on the ground, mistake we made was forcing them to adhere to a standard of engagement that gave the Russians all the advantages, yet they are still fighting years after they were supposed to be overwhelmed, that my friend is the flaw in your argument. Actually with a minimal expenditure of funds, which by the way almost all benefit U.S. defense companies, we are weakening a belligerent adversary tremendously, which in and of itself is a huge benefit to us, and we can spend more time dealing with the threat that China creates.

^We weekend ourselves dramatically focusing on the paper tiger Russia, and set China up for success. Biden would suck at poker.

Regardless of public opinion, objectively, Trump will inherit a strong economy. Inflation is back down, wages are up, and job growth is good. Stock prices are strong. Rates are creeping back down.

But, inflation did take a big bite. And those higher prices are unlikely to drop — and if they did the economic results would be catastrophic (See Japan’s lost decade). Inflation was the price for a soft landing and strong rebound from COVID. That wasn’t a guarantee— and a fair bit of the economic response occurred during both the Trump and Biden administrations.

Compare the economic recovery coming out of both the housing recession and COVID. We were staring into the abyss on the housing recession— action by Bush literally saved us from another depression. OTOH, more robust might have dampened that recession and allowed a quicker recovery. Also some policies of his administration helped set the table for the crisis.

That is a balance — depth of the recession vs setting the stage for inflation.

But, tariffs. These can be a reasonable tool for certain markets and for certain governmental actions. That isn’t the approach Trump is advocating. Broad tariffs will most likely result in retaliatory responses. The result will be inflation. Likely coupled with slowing or negative economic growth.

Ideally, someone blinks first.

Trump will be the same as biden. Biden is just trump with the corporate media behind him. Harris and trump were the same too. Arguing about who will start a bigger war who will deport more people who will give more corporate handouts who wont do shit for people....were living in an Idiocracy

@Pud pervasive tariffs and mass deportation will have huge economic impacts. I would hope even Trump supports acknowledge that no one can be sure how those impacts will play out. I have to decide what to do with my investment money. I have hopes that Trump himself would back off if we near an economic cliff. But, if he won't, I have to get a sense of the risk that the country would follow him over it.

Immigration control should be based on cost-effectiveness. Not a delusional, paranoid Alamo mindset. We need a non joke policy of enabling and requiring employers to verify that job applicants can work legally. Although, for selfish reasons, I hope the benign neglect for wetback strippers working illegally continues. We also need a guest worker program designed by labor market experts, that prioritizes maximizing the income and working conditions of less advantaged US citizens.

Yes Ukraine has far fewer resources than Russia. The reason they are punching so far above their weight is because they are significantly more democratic and less corrupt. I again say, their cause is just, they are willing to keep fighting, and they are degrading the capabilities of a threat to a peaceful world. Every reason for the US to continue with the modest help it is providing. Your blank check straw man is irrelevant.

The Palestinians' core problem is they are even more infected by Manosphere-type thinking than the US is. If ethnic cleansing is the way to handle that, rivers of blood are going to flow all over the world. People of good morals are inclined to not cut and run from a just fight, even if the risks and costs are great.

78% of the Jewish vote went to Harris. But I guess you know better than they do, that it's the Democrats who have the major problem with Jew hating. Jews know what it's like to be the target of hate, so they vote against the hateful.

The practical and moral approach to the Palestinian problem is a freeze on settlements in the West Bank for at least 10 years, to give competent, reformist Palestinian leaders a chance to gain more influence among their people. No administration has come close to that, but Trump's was the furthest from it.

I've never had blind loyalty to either party and lean left in some areas and right on others. If the new administration can actually fix and improve without fucking up things - policy wise - I'm happy to watch to see what happens. But my bigger problems are (and these are Trump things not general republican/conservative things):

• Trump takes credit for everything that he can spin as a success and blames everyone / everything else for anything that is a problem. It's bullshit and you cannot trust a leader like this. He needs to own his mistakes (same for Biden applies)

• He encourages hatred and division between people in this country, and no one should elect a leader like this

• He is appointing people with a specific agenda to punish people who he claims have treated him unfairly, this is the mark of a dictator / tyrant not the leader of a Democracy.

• We should never never elect a leader who is deliberately trying to rig the election system and judicial system to keep themselves and their appointees in power.

"Trump will have to do more than ride his predecessor's coattails, like he did last time..."

Thanks wld4 - that's the best laugh I had today.

Biden was the singular worst President in history and the only thing pretending otherwise does is make those pretending appear incredibly stupid. Obama and Biden set the world on fire with their pathetic weakness. Why are Jewish settlements in their land, stolen by the arabs an atrocity?

@Pud I can understand how tiring it must be to face down the limitless number of straw men that you create. You're "arguing" that US fuck ups in Iraq and Afghanistan make Trump's doubling down on turning a blind eye to Israeli extremism a success. Could you possibly be more rando?

Ukraine is earnestly seeking EU membership, which requires rooting out corruption. Putin attacked them out of fear that their democratization would inspire the Russian population.

If by "religious Jew", you mean somebody who thinks God wants a genocidal Israel, yes, I'm sure they tend to be pro Trump. Many of them would call you Jew hating, for opposing the annexation of the West Bank.

No one would call anyone a Jew hater for opposing the annexation of the West Bank. Even I oppose it, and I look at every single Palestinian as a current or future terrorist piece of shit and always have.

@Pud for some people, morality is more than just a look. Civilization will collapse if we never temper morality with practicality, OR if we always choose expedience (our interests) over what's moral. Morality is enlightened self-interest. But you have to be alive to be moral. You need to have nested perimeters. The bigger the perimeter, the less effort you can afford to be moral. Ukraine is outside the NATO perimeter, but that doesn't mean zero effort to be moral there makes sense.

Does Russia have less hope of democracy than Japan and Germany did in 1945? If you want to be a lover of facts and logical conclusions, you have to be a whore about it, not pick and choose which ones you love.

My liberalism is limited, as is my time spent in Illinois.

jpost.com

I bet the tinfoil hat circle jerk club loves sesta fosta and cant wait for Trump to do more

Anything and everything that upsets progressives is something I can support.

usatoday.com

@Puddy "Sybil" Tat OK I'll leave you to argue with yourself.

^ Nice article @ilbbaicnl

August 2024: "Prices will come down,” Trump also told rallygoers during a speech in August. “You just watch. They’ll come down, and they’ll come down fast, not only with insurance, with everything.”

December 2024: "I don't think so. Look, they got them up, I'd like to bring them down. It's hard to bring things down once they're up," he said. "You know, it's very hard."

^Obama also said there was no magic wand Trump could wave which would undo the damage done by NAFTA and bring back the lost jobs. Before 2019, unemployment was at an all-time low and minorities were experiencing all-time high employment. (Now you will talk about COVID, but that had nothing to do with Trump and his policies. Trump tried to use travel restrictions to keep COVID outside our borders, but the democrats forced the government to allow those people in. Democrats are responsible for the COVID job losses.)

TUSCL aside, it looks like there's generally a healthy skepticism about Trump: pbs.org

The simple fact is that watching progressives impotently dribble urine down their hind legs is hysterically funny.

Trumps already back tracking on lowering prices

He needs a Luigi special

Those were alt right Weirdos. Third times a charm though lulz

He wont make it. If someone doesnt get him the grim reaper will lulz

Anyways
He already said he wont lower prices 😭🤡

Thats icee loco

So you basically support end stage capitalist price gouging and trumps breaking of his election promises before he even assumes power

🥶🥶🥶🕸️🎀👠🤌💰

I don't think Trump can lower prices. No one can. The only way that happens, realistically, in a time frame where Trump can reasonably take credit, is if the rest of the world goes into a depression. Well, maybe, if he can create enough of an energy policy (to reduce input costs) and have other countries lower their tariffs to US goods, but I kinda doubt it.

However, there is no way Biden's policies are working. The most generous, realistic read, is that the economy is finally shaking off the damage that Biden has done with his inflationary policies. Also, the Trump effect is giving hope to producers to start producing and investing again which is why the stock market is humming along. Still too early to tell, though.

It certainly helps Trump, all the people who are calling a political assassin a hero. It makes Trump's hatefulness seem moderate by comparison.

^ I think you have the answer to your original question "how patient are you". Trumpers here largely avoided the question, deflected, and defended or ignored Trump's messaging this week that he likely won't deliver on his repeated campaign promise to reduce inflation.

So the answer is there is no limit to their patience, at least for now in the honeymoon phase of his second term. The former "I don't like him but I'll vote for him" have now become his cheerleaders and fanboys.

The real test would be if Trump went and stood in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shot somebody, and see if his voters still support him, like Trump has predicted they would. No doubt many would.

The guy who doesn’t pay his vendors or suppliers, doesn’t really care if prices don’t come down.

If Trump's 2nd term is like his 1st, it will not be that bad. He was basically the Republican Obama in his first term. He presented an image that got support from the more extreme parts of his party. But what he actually did was generally centerist. He was a much less bad President than W.

The thing is, he is very, very pissed about the Republicans who defied and opposed him, and being threatened with prison. This term, out of spite, he may do a lot more of the extreme stuff he talks about doing.

@PT your bitch volume is second to none here on our titty bar website. But seeing that would require a level of thought incompatible with MAGA.

@PT
What is it about you guys that won the election? Why such a massive inferiority complex?Good advice about coping, you should take your own

It's Republicans generally, not Trump in particular, who killed Roe V Wade. The SCOTUS justices who are most inclined to roll back individual rights were appointed by previous Republican Presidents.

^ Gollee any criticism of your chosen one you run out and respond, really you’re trying to hard.

Roe v. Wade was the single worst decision in the history of Scotus. No right under the constitution can ever be created by judicial fiat. 10th amendment made it a state issue way before anyone here had any family here. No rights were rolled back, just cheating corrected. Next up immigration. back up the garbage truck and out they go.

@ski what about the 9th Amendment? In 1791, when the 9th Amendment was added as a part of the Bill of Rights, women had a right to an abortion before the fetus started kicking. So that right can't be taken away constitutionally.

I don't support Roe either. The viability standard is not moral. But substantive due process requires that legislatures to be limited to a sensible, secular definition of what a person is. Suppose California passes a law that all animals are people, so no meat eating is allowed. Should the courts allow that to stand?