Trumpers, how patient are you?
ilbbaicnl
Keep it in my pants when I do OTC. If I were a stripper it would stand for I like big bucks and I can not lie.
Suppose in June of next year, inflation and/or unemployment are increasing. Would you expect a backoff on the tariffs and the deportations? How much short term pain, and for how long, are you willing to tolerate to see good long term economic effects?
60 comments
TUSCL lefties, suppose that next year, the stock market is up without generating inflation, we have no more Laken Riley's or Jocelyn Nungaray's, Canada and Mexico are playing ball on the border leading to a reduction in fentanyl deaths, and Ukraine and Gaza have been brought to peaceful resolutions, at what point will you admit his policies have been beneficial?
The men responsible for those two murders where not known criminals. So how is deportation of known criminals going to prevent such murders in the future?
I agree with those who say Hamas should be destroyed. Is Trump going to get Hamas to agree to be destroyed voluntarily?
What peace in Ukraine? Neville Chamberlain brought peace to Europe for about a year, was that a good peace?
@dustyj was going to bet me $10,000 that strip clubs and porn would be banned, but he got ghost.
If you think a backed off version of the level of deportations was always the plan, why do you think tariffs were not? Can you concede that deporting gang members is a good thing?
Hamas isn't going to be "destroyed," it's an ideology. Peaceful resolution with the actual people is possible. Trump did great work in the Middle East in his first term. As for Ukraine, what's your proposal? Ukraine is running out of soldiers. We negotiate from a better position now, or a worse position later.
Fentanyl deaths have decreased since the late 3rd quarter of 2023 to now. GDP grew again in the 3rd quarter. Gas prices have repeatedly fallen over the past 9 months. Trump will inherit a pretty good economy right now.
The American people voted in the last election cause they believed Trump when he said he would lower prices at the grocery store. That will be the true measure if the American people can get a box of Captain Crunch for $3.00.
If Trump's economic policies cause no more harm than Biden's did, I'll be OK with them. But, I think any judge who doesn't think elective abortion in at least the first trimester is a civil right is a threat in general to basic civil rights. I will not vote for anybody who publicly solicits the commission of violent crimes. I will not vote for anyone who will not voluntarily return government property, classified documents or whatever, in their possession. I will not vote for a President who does not think a major riot in the District of Columbia requires his immediate attention and action. I think anyone who's worked and made a positive contribution to the US for many years should be given a path to citizenship.
I guess "destroyed" can mean different things. After 9/11, Al Qaeda was reduced from an organization to little more than a brand for violent salafists. Israel should destroy Hamas at least to that degree before ending the war. I think that's how Israel sees it, and I don't see Trump pressuring them to accept less.
Do you think it was wrong for FDR to help the British before Pearl Harbor, because they were in great danger of defeat, and were suffering a lot of casualties? It should be up to the Ukrainians to decide to concede any of their rightful territory to stop the fighting. For the US to cut support is like having cancer, and hoping it will go away by itself after you stop the chemo.
Americans don't seem to think so. The working class isn't in the stock market, nor bases their mood off GDP. Unemployment affects about 5% of the population at any time. Biden saw price levels go up 20% for his errant spending on green nonsense, particularly into a supply crisis. But that's the Democrats' argument these days, "you don't know how good we are for you mouth-breathers."
@ilb - so you won't vote for Trump based on subjective policy measures and a rally that got out of hand. Fine. But that wasn't what I asked. At what point will you have to concede he's doing a good job? The fact that he has you guessing on tariffs says he's playing good poker.
OK, you have some comparison on the economy.
Do you think border control is a good thing?
What would success in Gaza and Ukraine look like to you that is feasible?
Trump struck peace deals all around the pathological Palestinians. If he were re-elected, I think they would have realized it's time to join the civilized world.
The Ukraine/WW2 analogy sucks. Not only is Russia far from the threat that Germany/Italy/Japan were, but "helping the British" didn't more than slow things down. If anything, your analogy says we'll need to put American warfighters on the ground in Ukraine in order to win. Are you willing to do that? Ukrainians can decide to concede whatever they want, we can also decide not to keep funding them, in which case they'll be conceding a hell of a lot more.
Trump will have to do more than ride his predecessor's coattails, like he did last time, to be credited with having any real impact. For example, if unemployment goes below Biden's 50 year low of 3.4%, that would be to Trump's credit.
Biden is.
It can't be proven that Trump intended for Jan 6 to get out of hand. Once it got out of hand, his response to it proves he's questionable competent to wipe his own ass.
The Empire of Japan was not an existential threat to the US. But it attacked US territories anyways, because that's how expansionist powers, like Russia under Putin, tend to behave. The cause of the Ukrainians is just, they are still willing to fight, and they are weakening an expansionist power. The money spent to support their fight does more for US security than a lot other US military spending. I don't see the relevance of mine or someone else's ignorant opinion about what concessions the Ukrainians should or shouldn't make.
It's true that Hamas is more afraid of Trump than Biden, as they had hopes of Biden's political base pressuring him to reduce the effectiveness of Israeli operations in Gaza. But, again, I don't think that matters, given that Israel wants to kill or capture all members of Hamas associated with its violent missions. Israel will only accept Hamas's unconditional surrender, and Hamas won't be scared into doing that, by anything.
I think Trump bungled the COVID response and Biden bungled inflation. The latter is a greater sin because it was entirely predictable (except to Janet Yellen who insisted nobody saw it coming). What people like @wld4tatas miss (either through ignorance or willingly trying to defend his guy through sophistry) is that economies don't just go on a set trajectory and stay there unless something changes. The post-COVID bounceback, like any demand shock, was predictable. It also doesn't continue out to infinity, it abates very quickly. Like the canard that Trump "inherited the Obama economy." The 10th year of a recovery is much different than the first.
Our opinions of what concessions the Ukrainians should make have every relevance because that says just how much we're willing to spend there. In terms of corruption, Ukraine is barely a cunt hair better than Russia. But again, they are literally running out of soldiers. Being dead takes away one's willingness to fight quite effectively. Russia is, other than their nukes and hypersonic missiles, not a tenth the threat to America that China is. If you want to give Ukraine a blank check, just say so. I am not, until we have some kind of exit strategy, no matter what it is. Russia has 4-1 population advantage, it's their backyard, and they are committed to winning. We are none of those.
Biden undid Trump's progress on the Middle East quite effectively, resuming aid to the Palestinians who are one of the most fucked up cultures on the planet, and tonguing Khameini's asshole (who is the Palestinians' funder). Thankfully Biden has largely stood up to the powerful Jew Haters Caucus of the Democratic party.
But there's no eradicating every single Hamas member, no more than the UN could kill every confederate sympathizer. They can just take out their governing bodies. Right now it looks like Netanyahu wants to keep this going indefinitely. Israelis I trust on the matter say Bibi just wants to keep power, and has no ideology whatever. But I guarantee what the IDF is doing to Gaza pales in comparison to what America would do to Mexico if Tijuana were lobbing rockets at San Diego.
This chapter is yet to be written but it is imperative upon Trump as he takes office not to fuck this up and help the Russians and the Iranians to climb out of this massive mess they’ve created. My opinion is the first step to solidifying this new order will be to help Ukraine kick the shit out of Russia, and keep them unable to get out of the war they started without paying a heavy price. The rest depends entirely on how much Trump extracts from Putin.
Trump held Putin in check during his term. No Crimea, no Ukraine. Trump also held Iran in check, and Biden saw fit to undo that quickly. Valerie Jarrett spoke in his ear just like she did in Obama's. We need Trump back striking peace deals all around the bad actors in the region, isolating and marginalizing them.
But like I said, how can Ukraine kick the shit out of Russia when they're running out of soldiers to do so? No one seems able to answer just how far we should go. How much we should spend, how involved do we need to get, keeping in mind the magnitude of the threat. Won't do us much good if we vanquish Iran and Russia, only to be faced with a more strategic and untouched China, who has been building infrastructure in 3rd world countries while we're pushing LGBTQ nonsense on them.
But, inflation did take a big bite. And those higher prices are unlikely to drop — and if they did the economic results would be catastrophic (See Japan’s lost decade). Inflation was the price for a soft landing and strong rebound from COVID. That wasn’t a guarantee— and a fair bit of the economic response occurred during both the Trump and Biden administrations.
Compare the economic recovery coming out of both the housing recession and COVID. We were staring into the abyss on the housing recession— action by Bush literally saved us from another depression. OTOH, more robust might have dampened that recession and allowed a quicker recovery. Also some policies of his administration helped set the table for the crisis.
That is a balance — depth of the recession vs setting the stage for inflation.
But, tariffs. These can be a reasonable tool for certain markets and for certain governmental actions. That isn’t the approach Trump is advocating. Broad tariffs will most likely result in retaliatory responses. The result will be inflation. Likely coupled with slowing or negative economic growth.
Ideally, someone blinks first.
Immigration control should be based on cost-effectiveness. Not a delusional, paranoid Alamo mindset. We need a non joke policy of enabling and requiring employers to verify that job applicants can work legally. Although, for selfish reasons, I hope the benign neglect for wetback strippers working illegally continues. We also need a guest worker program designed by labor market experts, that prioritizes maximizing the income and working conditions of less advantaged US citizens.
Yes Ukraine has far fewer resources than Russia. The reason they are punching so far above their weight is because they are significantly more democratic and less corrupt. I again say, their cause is just, they are willing to keep fighting, and they are degrading the capabilities of a threat to a peaceful world. Every reason for the US to continue with the modest help it is providing. Your blank check straw man is irrelevant.
The Palestinians' core problem is they are even more infected by Manosphere-type thinking than the US is. If ethnic cleansing is the way to handle that, rivers of blood are going to flow all over the world. People of good morals are inclined to not cut and run from a just fight, even if the risks and costs are great.
78% of the Jewish vote went to Harris. But I guess you know better than they do, that it's the Democrats who have the major problem with Jew hating. Jews know what it's like to be the target of hate, so they vote against the hateful.
The practical and moral approach to the Palestinian problem is a freeze on settlements in the West Bank for at least 10 years, to give competent, reformist Palestinian leaders a chance to gain more influence among their people. No administration has come close to that, but Trump's was the furthest from it.
- Trump takes credit for everything that he can spin as a success and blames everyone / everything else for anything that is a problem. It's bullshit and you cannot trust a leader like this. He needs to own his mistakes (same for Biden applies)
- He encourages hatred and division between people in this country, and no one should elect a leader like this
- He is appointing people with a specific agenda to punish people who he claims have treated him unfairly, this is the mark of a dictator / tyrant not the leader of a Democracy.
- We should never never elect a leader who is deliberately trying to rig the election system and judicial system to keep themselves and their appointees in power.
Thanks wld4 - that's the best laugh I had today.
I agree with you on immigration control. That's why Homan is starting with violent gang members, felons, and those who have no-showed immigration hearings. It sounds like you're advocating for merit-based immigration, and I agree that it should apply whether we're talking scientists or strawberry pickers. Be careful though, this mentality will get you branded as evil and racist on the left.
Ukraine and Russia were literally one step apart in the rankings of corruption. The blank check is quite relevant as we have finite money and Ukraine has finite men. In fact, in a recent survey, the majority of Ukrainians want a settlement that ends conflict. Again, how much should we spend on them, considering all this, and that our fixation on them leaves China sitting pretty as we degrade our own defense capabilities going after a lesser threat?
Funny how you talk about "people of good morals." We tried fixing the Middle East in Iraq and Afghanistan. How did that work out? All of a sudden it's the left who wants to make the world safe for democracy. If Israel was trying to "ethnically cleanse" the Palestinians, there wouldn't be one of them left. How about rather than trying to polish our haloes, we act in America's best interests? Trump actually realizes that trying to institute democracy in places with no democratic tradition is a fool's errand. Say we drive Russia out of Ukraine...it'll go back to being another hotbed of corruption.
I agree that Jewish settlements in the West Bank are an atrocity. Right now, it's because Bibi needs far-rightists like Smotrich and Ben-Gvir to keep his majority. But that's a different issue than the Gaza conflict.
Polls have shown that the more religious Jews are (Reform, Conservative, Orthodox), the more they vote Republican. The majority of Jews in America are Reform Jews, for many of whom Judaism and Jewishness fall well behind leftism as part of their policy. Look at where the Jew hatred in America is coming from. The left.
I'm a bit tied up right now but willing to cite any polls you want to see. All of this is verifiable.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/12/11/politics/…
Ukraine is earnestly seeking EU membership, which requires rooting out corruption. Putin attacked them out of fear that their democratization would inspire the Russian population.
If by "religious Jew", you mean somebody who thinks God wants a genocidal Israel, yes, I'm sure they tend to be pro Trump. Many of them would call you Jew hating, for opposing the annexation of the West Bank.
You're going from saying we need to eradicate Hamas to Trump turning a blind eye to Israeli extremism? I actually agreed with you on what you said on the West Bank, so no idea where the fuck your little rage out came from. You're a bit bipolar today.
I'm saying we need to look out for OUR OWN interests rather than try to "spread democracy" or concern ourselves with "looking moral." It's the left's conceit that they are "on the right side of history."
That's a strange hypothesis that it would "inspire Russia" which has had only a few years of sorta-democracy in the middle of centuries of czars and premiers and now Putin. If you think we're going to "inspire" them, I'd like a shot of whatever you've been drinking. Perhaps Putin just wants to re-create the USSR like he's said he would? If Ukraine is trying to root out corruption, they're doing a shitty job of it.
Speaking of straw men, God who wants a genocidal Israel? The very Orthodox don't even think the state of Israel is legitimate because it wasn't formed according to Old Testament prophecy. Jews want a place where they can live as Jews if the shit hits the fan like it is all over the western world (driven by the left).
IDGAF what they think about me. I have my views, rooted in facts and logic.
Does Russia have less hope of democracy than Japan and Germany did in 1945? If you want to be a lover of facts and logical conclusions, you have to be a whore about it, not pick and choose which ones you love.
My liberalism is limited, as is my time spent in Illinois.
https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-confl…
So rather than go back to some time point, how about we accept the most recent borders as they are RIGHT NOW and tell everyone to play nice in the sandbox?
You have a rather interesting, messianic, and foolish definition of what's moral. 2003 Dubya and Cheney called, they want their foreign policy back. Was "spreading democracy and freedom" worth the cost in lives, American, allied, and local? Did it even work? But hey, you can pat yourself on the back because you were "moral."
Is it "moral" to prolong the war in Ukraine when THEY DON'T WANT IT? (https://nypost.com/2024/11/19/world-news…) They are willing to make territorial concessions for peace. You are the immoral one for wanting to prolong the war AGAINST THEIR WISHES so we can bleed out our VERY distant second place threat.
Does Russia have less hope of democracy? Yes, because we didn't blow them the fuck up in 1945 and reconstitute them from scratch. You have no logic there, only stupid idealism. No wonder your party is sucking the Cheneys' and John Bolton's tiny cocks.
Typical lib, treat your feelings and desire for moral superiority as facts.
PS - Tell Brandon Johnson and JB Pritzker the Puddy Tat says "hiss" and "fuck you." Please don't inflict the latter on the 2028 Dem nomination.
August 2024: "Prices will come down,” Trump also told rallygoers during a speech in August. “You just watch. They’ll come down, and they’ll come down fast, not only with insurance, with everything.”
December 2024: "I don't think so. Look, they got them up, I'd like to bring them down. It's hard to bring things down once they're up," he said. "You know, it's very hard."
https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trumps-f…
He needs a Luigi special
The Secret Service is getting reformed, no DEI, no women who aren't physically fit to handle the job.
You won't get within a country mile of Trump before you eat a .338 Lapua Magnum sandwich.
Anyways
He already said he wont lower prices 😭🤡
https://tuscl.net/discussion/76367
Lowering prices i.e. deflation causes its own, severe, problems. Good thing he's not going to do that!
So you basically support end stage capitalist price gouging and trumps breaking of his election promises before he even assumes power
"End stage capitalist price gouging"
Sorry, I don't speak leftist tard bait. Can you translate to English?
However, there is no way Biden's policies are working. The most generous, realistic read, is that the economy is finally shaking off the damage that Biden has done with his inflationary policies. Also, the Trump effect is giving hope to producers to start producing and investing again which is why the stock market is humming along. Still too early to tell, though.
So the answer is there is no limit to their patience, at least for now in the honeymoon phase of his second term. The former "I don't like him but I'll vote for him" have now become his cheerleaders and fanboys.
The real test would be if Trump went and stood in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shot somebody, and see if his voters still support him, like Trump has predicted they would. No doubt many would.
Most of America approves of the way the transition is being handled. His approval is net positive.
We gave Biden a chance in his early days too. America just saw 4 years of Biden and 4 years of Trump and chose Trump.
If it helps you cope, get it out of your system. Bitch and whine. Shout into the void on an obscure titty bar fan message board. But America is giving Trump a chance.
If you want me to put a line in the sand, here it is. When his policies start being enacted, I'll judge accordingly. If tariffs and deportations happen, we'll see the impact.
The thing is, he is very, very pissed about the Republicans who defied and opposed him, and being threatened with prison. This term, out of spite, he may do a lot more of the extreme stuff he talks about doing.
What is it about you guys that won the election? Why such a massive inferiority complex?Good advice about coping, you should take your own
I don't support Roe either. The viability standard is not moral. But substantive due process requires that legislatures to be limited to a sensible, secular definition of what a person is. Suppose California passes a law that all animals are people, so no meat eating is allowed. Should the courts allow that to stand?