Dancer Desperation
DougS
Florida
I've been hearing over and over, from many sources that the dancers are having a harder time (no pun intended) earning a decent living these days. Between the economy, stiffer competition (no pun intended), and poor business in general, the dancers are saying they just can't make enough money.
I've heard and witnessed dancers offering to do more and more in order to increase their business and income. In fact, a report from a friend at one of my fav clubs reports that FS is becoming fairly common. It was reported that recently one dancer went around an entire table of six guys, one at a time, sitting on their lap, pushing aside her g-string and letting the guy slide inside to completion.
Have you experienced a trend where the "clean" dancers are becoming more and more dirty... perhaps dancers that vehemently refused to perform extras that are now beginning to expand their repertoire?
It seems to me that a lot of dancers are in a pretty bad way financially, otherwise they probably wouldn't be in the business. It would be tempting, even for a girl that normally has higher morals, to give in when sufficient money is dangled before them. The higher the desperation level, the easier to give into temption, it would seem.
I can imagine the rationalization that might go through their mind at a time like that... taking the last step over the threshold might not be that big of a step when it means the difference of making this months mortgage payment, or feeding her children.
I've heard and witnessed dancers offering to do more and more in order to increase their business and income. In fact, a report from a friend at one of my fav clubs reports that FS is becoming fairly common. It was reported that recently one dancer went around an entire table of six guys, one at a time, sitting on their lap, pushing aside her g-string and letting the guy slide inside to completion.
Have you experienced a trend where the "clean" dancers are becoming more and more dirty... perhaps dancers that vehemently refused to perform extras that are now beginning to expand their repertoire?
It seems to me that a lot of dancers are in a pretty bad way financially, otherwise they probably wouldn't be in the business. It would be tempting, even for a girl that normally has higher morals, to give in when sufficient money is dangled before them. The higher the desperation level, the easier to give into temption, it would seem.
I can imagine the rationalization that might go through their mind at a time like that... taking the last step over the threshold might not be that big of a step when it means the difference of making this months mortgage payment, or feeding her children.
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36 comments
And not just in clubs. In high school now, "the thing" is for girls to shave "porn style"... not to mention how much more advanced sexually they are. Check out a current prom some time (especially for black high schools) and you'll see grinding worthy of a VIP room. It's not such a huge step from being in AP English class at 17 to straddling a regular for FS in VIP at 18.
It's the ho-ification of America, and we the customers are it's beneficiaries.
O.
But I do think that O has it right about the ho-ification of America. TV, movies and the print media have glorified sex so much that it's apparently no longer taboo to most young people, it's become the in thing to do. Frankly I think that's sad.
True its a multi-year trend, chicks becoming sluttier in general, but I think it has become much more noticeable recently, particularly after this (slower than usual) summer in certain locales, which is probably connected to a (most likely) start of a real estate downturn led recession. Now of course business may yet still pickup as cold weather hits, and if it does, many of these girls can throttle back a bit.
However to cite some situations: one case: a (formerly) clean (except typical high contact state boob and ass grabbing/kissing) 8.5 level girl with shrinking earnings that is now definitely doing HJ's complains about the new girl (7 level) at the club who is doing 25 dollar dances combined with 20 dollar blowjobs. At another club drop dead gorgeous stunning 10 level girl formerly 100% (except usual boobs and ass grabbing/kissing) clean now allowing mouth kissing and light fingering now complaining about a girl permitting complete digital insertions. Very pretty 9 level young girl who hates asking and getting turned-down for dances decides to skip bulk of high volume "wanna dance" solicticing, and instead focuses on targeting suit types or other presumed types with large sums of cash - for FS right in the club or OTC
Each category of dancer is ratcheting it up to either attract new regulars or to retain old ones that might walk, or with one girl just to go for the big score for the day. If a real recession hits, its going to get very interesting
What I've noticed is that certain clubs make sure they now and then fire certain women (e.g new hires) that they conveniently catch in the full service or at times BJ act - however its all for show, and the bouncers must know the deal also. Its clearly something to use as part of a future defense should vice charges be brought. "We were cleaning it up using best efforts and acting at all times in good faith, and here's some examples" - because its never the super-established big earners
The big trend over the past year has been in sorting out the good clubs from the bad. A group of clubs that previously occupied the middle ground, in terms of girl quality, have lost mnay of their better looking girls. The few better culbs seem to be gaining girls. My theory is the good girls are in search of the money, and there is less of it available.
As for the dance mileage, it has gotten better in the past year. Again, I would like to think it is my ever-increasing charm and good looks, but my big brain tells me it's probably about the competition for cash.
On a bigger scale, I have noticed more reviews recently in TUSCL that mention ITC extras. On the one hand, this is encouraging even if you don't want extras, as the mileage will be negotiable. On the other hand, I wish some of the reviewers would cool it, so as not to encite LE to take action. (Which begs another question bandied about recently...does LE care what we say here?)
I think a lot of dancers are responding by doing extras, and managments are increasingly allowing it because their competition is doing so and they don't want to lose customers.
I think customers as well as dancers have become much more casual about sex (the ho-ification of America). Sex is much more readily available. A lot of guys expect the same in strip clubs. And are less willing to spend money just to watch girls dance naked.
The economy may have some influence especially in specific regions where it's particiularly weak. But most places the economy is a pretty minor factor in all this. It's other social trends that are much more important.
As for the economic issue in certain regions, that is happening much more suddenly or people's perceptions of that, and we will know the answer to that (in terms of strip club spending) probably within 60 to 90 days. The big problem strippers say is the big spenders don't seem to be very common any more. Now that could be standard SS. In any case big spending can be very counter-productive because the dancers become addicted to it very quickly. I am personally working on becoming a very erratic spender with a pattern no single dancer could ever figure out, varying ATF deals much more, and a part-time cheapskate in certain clubs, because when I've dropped large sums especially on specific girls over a period of time these same girls tend to ratchet up the SS to new levels - which is very counterproductive for both the customer and dancer longer term
Let's face it, strip clubs in theory can be rock bottom priced entertainment if 1. avoids covers by coming the right time 2 says no to private dances 3. and if super cheap - staying away from the tip rail
Huh? Wow. First time ever in the club. OK, umm, no thanks. Wound up unzipped and nosing into the hangar. FS was _absolutely_ on the menu.
I'm not really a "regular" or "hobbyist." I've heard of such things, but I figured you'd have to spend $$$$ and build trust with the girl, DJ, staff, etc - absolutely not the case, in this case. I'm not a lap-dance guy, either, I think I've bought 4 or 5 in 15 years.
JC
Unbelievable and I can this, that if this economy unhinges any more, its going to get real interesting for patrons still left with some cash, although I'm usually happy just with a sexy girl grinding that ass into a frenzy
1. "Imagine..I just need X amount more for this evening." Lowest I've heard was $250 (slutty little tramp) and up to 700 dollars (quite beautiful although not blessed with brains)
2. "Gee I get tested every 3 months", or "once month" with one - "one always wants to be safe"
Still I would estimate about 90% of dancers at upscales clubs will not go near FS,(except maybe for many 1000's of course) and its precisely the reason they are dancing instead of escorting. Most chicks simply don't want to be WHORES
john80202c, I'd REALLY appreciate it if you'd let me know the club in Kansas you went to. I go there a lot and haven't found anything "fun" there at all......
I'm still thrashing thoughts in my mind about how a dancer that seemed to have been nothing but honest with her customers, could also be capable of "playing the game" and leading a PL along. That, to be honest, shakes the very foundation of my beliefs that I've developed from experience and all of the reading and discussion on TUSCL. I know there are dancers that abuse their control over us patrons, and I know there are dancers that do NOT play those games, but now we are seeing evidence of dancers that do both - who knows WHAT criteria they use to decide which role they take for a particular customer.
We all know there needs to be some acting that goes into their usual "performance", but up until now, I thought that once I pegged a dancer as being a player, or as being a "what-you-see-is-what-you-get" dancer, it would be status quo. Not so, obviously.
That, as always, brings me back to thinking about my ATF, and another aspect that is bothering me. Also, it brings me back to the dancer desperation. I can see that a lot of the dancers need financial support, and it seems like dancers can be swayed to do things that they normally wouldn't do, because of their situations. It's not much of a stretch of the imagination that if things were especially tight financially, and some guy comes to the club with a lot of money - maybe even a guy that a dancer is attracted to - that the dancer might find herself doing things that she would never have dreamed that she would do, just out of desperation. If I were in their place, I certainly would be tempted...
From everthing that I've seen, heard and experienced with my ATF (including reports that I've received from fellow TUSCLers that have known her and experienced her dances), she is a clean dancer... no rule bending, no extras... She has been a tower of virtue in the hotel with me, other than heavy kissing - ('course that could indicate that I am a repulsive PL to her, that she is stringing along!). With her going through a divorce, and looking for a new house, combined with a loser ex- that is not giving her any money, either.... How much more desperate would she have to be to take that small step into providing extras... or outright sex OTC?
During one of our conversations, when I was pressing her on where I stood... she said that she would NEVER take advantage of me (meaning financially - not sexually, I assumed [grin]). She has been known to "cut off" customers that developed feelings for her which she could not reciprocate. She has told me that the few times that she has asked me for money, it was because she had no where else to turn. She continued saying that there are a lot of people (assuming guys) that she could ask for money, but they all want one thing from her, and she's not going to do that. It sounded good at the time.
Now, thinking back on what she said, I don't feel so good about it... to me, it sounds like she could be close to taking that step... >>I<< am not helping things out by making her feel guilty about taking money from me, even though I told her not to feel that way, that it was okay. The next time she gets into a bind, would she be less likely to call me for help and more likely to take that step and get money from some other guy for doing something with him?
Damn! I know better than to think I have found a nice normal relationship in a club. I THINK I've found something special, but there's so much baggage that comes with it, I don't know if it's worth it. It comes back to the question I've asked MANY times... How in the hell can we ever know - FOR SURE - where we stand with these girls. Even if somehow a relationship become a serious "thing", how can I be sure it's more than just security, money and stability to her, rather than love. And does it even matter?
It's a crazy, complicated, f^cked up world.
A few quick thoughts. There is such a thing as situational morality. Would you feel bad about ripping off a crook that preys on hardworking people especially if you desperately need money to provide for your family. What about where a hoodlum steals your money and the police just take it as a big joke because they too busy doing important work like drug busts and sex stings. Would you mind stealing your money back from the hoodlum plus extra to compensate you for all the hoodlum has put you through?
As far as sexually chastise dancers are you going to have less interest in her if you know she'll spread her legs to avoid extreme financial hardship? If so, then I suggest you start moving along. BTW, a hooker who thinks nothing of spreading her legs for every Tom, Dick, and Harry, may be throughly disgusted by the idea of kissing her customer. She might rather endure severe financial pain than go that low.
BTW, it doesn't surprise even a little that a normally good dancer might be very aggressive with someone she felt was a true scum bag. Actually, I'm very surprised dancers are as nice and honest as they are.
"How in the hell can we ever know -FOR SURE- where we stand with these girls." That seems true of any person. You don't know -FOR SURE-. Remember the BTK (Bind Torture and Kill) vermin who was with the church and upstanding member of the community blah, blah, blah?
Correction: Chaste.
See... another vicious circle of thought.
Vicious circle of thought are normal; at least for me.
I think it was CNN that reported 40% or 60% or some other large number of women would spread their legs for $10,000. Assuming that is true, then I would think it would mainly be those women who because of poor financial health saw $10,000 as a lot of money.
Years ago a lady friend with a fairly decent income spread her legs for a wealthy old man for $20,000. In a way I contributed because I explained to her reasons why he might reasonably view her as so much more valuable than a high class escort. And, $20,000 to the old man was pretty much pennies considering his wealth. The lady friend thought it just dumb of him because you stick it in for a few minutes and that is worth $20,000? Or, even if she pleasured him for the whole night is that worth $20,000? She felt he was buying nothing. She did intend to do an excellent job and give him as much of a GFE as possible if that is what he was looking for. In fact, it was exactly what he wanted. End result 2 happy campers.
Anyway, how many men would do the nasty for $5,000? 90%? Yes, there is a double standard and imo there should be.
Few people can do it "correctly," but you might try and put yourself in her shoes. By, "correctly" I mean most people believe that if they like something then of course the other person feels the same way. For example, if Tom thinks winning millions of dollars in the lottery or being given millions is wonderful, then of course Sue or Mary or whoever MUST feel the same way. It would never occur to Tom because of culture or religion or whatever the other people may feel the exact opposite e.g. money is the root of all evil. Or, as some people would say, I believe wrongly, lack of money is the root of all evil.
Stealing is wrong? Oh really? In what universe are you living? Yep, there are people whose value system doesn't seem to compute unless somehow you can really try and put yourself in their shoes. It may still not compute, but you may gain a much greater appreciation of where they're coming from.
To tell you the truth although there is a imo a huge difference between stripping and traditional street walking or escorting there isn't that much difference imo between stripping with high contact and stripping where FS or BJs are offered to select known clients. Again, that is just imo. You may see a great moral divide. I see mainly a health divide.
I'm also saying that I don't blame a dancer that takes that step. Where I WOULD have a problem is if my ATF has taken that step, or takes it at some point in the future. Maybe if I were to find out that she has taken that step, or takes that step in the future, maybe I, like you said, need to put myself in her shoes and be more understanding.
After all, when I shine the light back onto me, I know that >>I<< am guilty of giving in and receiving extras. Other than pleasure I'm not getting anything out of it... in fact I'm even PAYING for it in most cases. That, I guess, makes me a WHOLE lot worse than a dancer that is struggling to keep her kids fed and sheltered.
I wouldn't worry too much about getting taken and see that as part of the process. That is true in other relationships as well. My concern would be limiting the damage to what you would consider an acceptable level.
I get chewed out by most people when I normally shrug at small theft. I shrug because it is small--the it's the principle nonsense would have impressed me decades ago. Not even a twitch of agreement now. Some people have the knack for finding good in others (not me, generally) and I think their reward is inner peace and happiness.
I was talking with a dancer that it seems like I've known forever and she really gets hyper in a negative way about prostitution i.e. FS. She did it way back when she was young and pregnant and didn't like it at all. She wouldn't consider a HJ as being prostitution because to her it just isn't very intimate like she considers sexual intercourse to be. Likewise she just doesn't consider grinding with clothing on as being intimate.
As far as you're "being a WHOLE lot worse than a dancer that is struggling to keep her kids fed and sheltered," I don't necessarily see that either.
Imagine a dancer who views sex like a typical young male i.e. will screw pretty much anything. That makes her bad? In your belief system it may and actually that belief system may be fine and dandy.
On my father's side of the family women were held to a much higher set of standards and were considered the foundation of the family. The man's job was to protect and provide. Nowadays the women is supposed to be Ms. Rambo playing war games in the Middle East and other parts of the empire. My views are a tad more old fashioned, but kudos to the young men view women with total equality. No reason for a man to work to support his family if the woman can hustle her body and make more money. Beats risking for her life and limbs for some silly stupid government project any day of the week, imo.