Thinking of missed opportunities. New dancer with beautiful skin perky medium natural tits full pouty lips. Definitely a 10 and she was the proper size for me standing just a little 5'4. It was a real pleasure NOT to see tats or piercings or brandings. She was well spoken. I always like when the dancer speaks more articulately than me. Bought a lot more dances than usual and she seemed very positive so I asked for her digits. I said mainly I was concerned I wouldn't see her again in the club, which that was my big concern. I just didn't want to lose a good professional contact. She is like oh no, I'm going to be here every weekend. You have nothing to worry about and if I decide I need to leave then I definitely give you my phone number. I mentioned that I'd run out of money or I'd buy a couple more dances. She says my treat. I appreciate your business. So she gives really wonderful dances slow and teasing wiht lots of contact and . . .
Sounds like Walmart customer service. We're happy to have you as a customer. As Arnold said in one movie, got a problem? "Speak to the hand."
I seem to worry more about the dancers who may not come back unless I get dances from them. I don't want to be considered as a source of income at least not on a regular basis unless she is giving me some dances I really like.
It's funny the lack of tats bothered me in that I didn't think she could hack being a dancer. She just didn't fit in. The time with her was really good. Like the neighbor girl had decided to go wild and actually knew what she was doing. :)
Not to be overly rude, jablake, but if this was the first time you met this dancer, it was a bad move to ask for her number. She might think you're a stalker.
She might also think I'm a pervert for going to a strip club. :) Those women who have a fear of stalkers mentality are exactly the type women I'd rather AVOID, so better to find out sooner than later. Another type of women that I wish to AVOID are those who get upset when asked if a particular service is available. A real turn-off. A simple NO or that's not for me by the dancer would suffice.
Besides I doubt she felt uncomfortable or was worrying about nonsense like stalkers or she wouldn't have given me a couple free dances--very good ones at that. I think the point was I didn't have anything to worry about because she planned on coming to the club regularly at that particular time so I would have NO problem finding her.
I should have been more forceful and said hey you can always ignore me, but I just think you are too sweet to be able to keep working at the club. I've seen it too many times where a woman wants to work and then gets forced out by dancers or management or a creep. I will only call if I don't see you for awhile, I won't call more than 3 times, etc.
Personally, I think there is nothing to lose by asking for the dancer's phone number. If it upsets her, then good riddance. If she says, NO then you haven't lost anything anyway. If she says, YES then you *might* be able to keep in contact to both parties benefit.
The reason for rushing it applies where the dancer is too good for the club or you can tell she'd prefer escort work or her hours are going to be erratic, or etc.
I remember this one dancer. She was a pro, but felt so soft and seemed so happy. The way she looked caused my heart some problems--irregular beat. She takes every last dollar, which was fine. I thought she is way too classy (No tats, little to NO makeup, quality costume) to be doing $5 dances----I better ask for her phone number even though this was the first time I'd seen her.
Predictably, she said NO. I thought, yes she is just too hot and seems strictly ITC, which is fine. I asked why she said NO and was surprised by her answer. She was used to earning $30 or more per lap and she considered this a vacation! I say what? She says this is a vacation because it is so different than an upscale club, the people are really wild and poor and this is just a 1 day vacation. I learned she was available OTC, but for a minimum of $400 per hour. I really would like to be able to pay that! :)
JaBlake: If she is as hot as you say, and is available OTC for $400, I can, and would pay that.
There is nothing wrong with asking for numbers. I do that myself, however it usually takes more than one visit before they give me their number, if they ever do. I don't blame them if they say no. They have no idea if I am a creep or not, at least not until they get to know me better, and even then, there's no guarantee that you are ok.
When I ask for numbers, it isn't specifically to try and get OTCs, though eventually, that is a goal, if I enjoy being with her. When I find a girl that I really like, I want her number to make sure she is working when I want to visit, especially since my visits are usually a three hour drive. I am typically not driving that distance without knowing a fav will be there.
The last time that I asked for a number, actually I didn't come out and ask for her number, I asked "how can I make sure you will be working the next time that I come here?". It was a HINT for a number, but not quite direct enough. Her response? She said "just call the club and ask if I'm working", which I CAN do, but there's no way I can plan ahead using that method. Since I have an ATF and my schedule revolves around her, I didn't pursue it further (no need to make her think she had me wrapped around her finger, right?). Now, I hear this girl has left the club, so in hindsight, I am quite regretful that I didn't press her for the number.
I agree with Dan. The presumption should be that strippers are allowed keep their work lives separate from their private lives, not the opposite, which the question seems to presume. Who knows, perhaps she hasn't yet learned the trick of giving out fake phone numbers.
Hi DougS: Yes, I think the $400 would have been well spent. :) Don't be depressed if you get a fake number or she just doesn't answer her calls--that's even when she volunteers her number and asks for you to call! Just a game some strippers and non-strippers, male and female, like to play probably to boost their ego, which in most cases hardly seems to need boosting. :)
Hi chandler: Religious brainwashing has made me a little aggressive in asking for what I want. I think it is a good thing. :) As far as waiting there are at least 2 negatives with that. First, I won't get the really innocent type that I like. Second, the non-innocent ones I really like seem to go to other clubs or go escort or whatever, the point being they leave. Private lives? LOL! I hardly think asking for her phone number is in itself and intrusion into her private life because she can say NO and it isn't personal like how much money do you make or does your family know or etc.
I ask a laborer for their phone number----oh my god what a personal question to ask him or her!
I guess it is a question of drawing lines and when you draw them. Some dancers freak if you grab a titty. I still grab titties and if she doesn't like it I stop and stop buying dances from her. Other dancers may have other lines like NO dirty talk--I don't talk dirty unless saying you're hot you're beautiful you're in great shape is considered dirty. Others go off the deep end if you ask if full service is on the menu--that type is a true turn-off. Also, if a dancer went off the deep end or even resented my just asking for her number I would find it a turn-off. Answering NO is 100% fine, but I would like to think she understand that some customers and dancers actually DO want to keep in contact and you won't find out unless you ask--surprise surpise.
BTW, ime calling the club to find out if a particular dancer is working doesn't work. Perhaps at the upscale clubs it isn't a problem. The normal response I've received is that you have to come in to find out.
So if the dancer doesn't work regular hours it can be time wasting and expensive. That was only a problem when I preferred to see the same dancer over and over. Now, it is just show me the quality. Yes, it is nice to see familiar faces, but usually it isn't worth the hassle of trying to set up times with a dancer who works whenever.
Jablake: Pardon my stating the obvious, but what you think should or shouldn't be personal for a stripper doesn't matter. It's what she thinks. If you don't agree with where she draws a line, you can take it or leave it. However, if you find yourself often crossing their lines before they have a chance to stop you, maybe you could learn some empathy.
Anyway, in my experience, getting stripper phone numbers in order to ensure meeting up with them in the club is mostly useless. The paradox is that the type of girls who don't keep a regular schedule are the same ones who don't return calls or even retain the same phone. (They're also usually the most fun.) The girls who you can reach by phone are the ones you don't need to call, because they're so reliable about being there when they say they will. The sad fact is it's just not a trade that conforms well to an appointment mentality.
I disagree with you concerning the obvious. :) A dancer might think commenting on what pretty skin she has is personal. A dancer might think asking about long she has danced is personal. A dancer might think asking about her education or goals is personal. I'm not going to be governed by that in least unless I'm aware of those "quirks" beforehand. I am governed to some extent by social norms concerning what is private or personal---fortunately asking for telephone isn't taboo in my area yet! You remind me of those judges who declare it is what the woman thinks is sexual harassment that counts . . . what utter rubbish.
If the price of empathy is missing opportunities because by some odd chance someone may be offended, then screw empathy. I mean that sincerely. It is like the young lady (Publix) cashier who got pissed because I asked if there was chance I could take her to lunch or dinner at her favorite restaurant. In her mind she had a very good reason for being pissed and I appreciated her telling me, why. It turns out she thought it was disgusting for an old man to date or try to date a young woman. Boo hoo. If I had known beforehand, then of course I would respect her wishes. You know something? There are young women who have NO problem dating an old man--worse, a poor old man who won't give them money.
Congratulations, you've managed to show me the dark side of empathy. :)
You are definitely correct that getting the number is *mostly* useless. It is the exception which makes it worthwhile to me.
As to the titty grabbing. This one dancer made it very clear NO titty grabbing allowed. No, big deal. I paid my $5 and said maybe in future we can have better dances. She was fairly cold and walks off angry. Turns out this was my lucky day. I had money and there were plenty of dancers that were hot. So I'm buying dances like a crazy person and having a blast. Ms. MyTittiesAreOffLimits shows up and I greet her warmly and we have a nice conversation. Then she wants a dance. I say Oh No! Thanks anyway. She wants to know why. I tell her I'm a titty man and if that isn't on the board it just makes NO sense to buy dances. I'm happy just watching the show. She says the other customers don't care about titties. I say you mean most of the black customers don't care about titties. It seems they have very different tastes. She then says it is NO big deal to her and that I just caught her off guard. Not only did I spend on her then I ended up happily spending a lot of money on her in the future.
OTOH, some dancers don't want to give a dance if they know that's what you're expecting. That is absolutely fine.
It's all about knowledge. ONE way of gaining knowledge is by asking. To be silenced by weird notions of "empathy" is just too much.
Hi JaBlake: So far, I guess I've been lucky, I've never received a fake phone number. Of course I also only ask those that I have some chemistry developing, so that's probably half the battle. I've also had good cooperation from clubs when I call, asking if a particular dancer is working. Maybe it's just the clubs that I go to? I've even got one club that would relay messages to specific dancers for me.
Chandler: Good point about the reliability and dependability of the dancers. I never thought that one through, but you are right. However, those girls that I can count on, are the type of girls that I like. I don't want to spend time with an airhead that I can't count on. It's especially important in my case. I can't afford to arrange to see my fav or ATF at the club, then find out she's not there after driving HOURS to see her. Even worse, if I had an OTC arrangement and I can't count on her being there, I can't risk it. For me, an arranged OTC is going to cost me a minimum of $200 to start with (hotel + gas money).
Jablake: I don't know what the hell you're ranting about. Empathy isn't another word for a stop sign. It means trying better to understand her feelings and point of view. Sometimes, it'll help you see how she's giving you a green light (using the indefinite "you" here.) If anything, it allows you to take advantage of more opportunities. Look, you're the one with the problem. If you don't like the answers, complain to the guy who started this thread.
Doug: I've always had a weakness for hot, fast, wild young things. The nice, deserving, reliable sort just don't make my pulse race the same. I like to keep my clubbing fairly spontaneous, so it works out for me.
A dancer says NO to providing a phone number. That's not a problem, unless the mere fact of requesting a phone number is a problem. I can see a dancer yelp how dare you ask for my phone number! Yes, I do indeed dare little lady. Sorry, if I'd known you thought it was big dealy and would get upset then I'd definitely have AVOIDED you.
As to the dancer's POV any reason she doesn't want to provide a phone number is fine. If she states why, then that is even better. And, any reason she gives is fine, such as I don't like you, I'm too busy, I never answer my phone, It's private, etc.
I remember this dancer she happily gives me her phone number and I think everything if fine and dandy. She says are you going to be upset when you learn that it is a fake number? I say No, because it happens too often. She laughs and says she was only joking, but that she won't do OTC so please don't call for that.
It was good. The number wasn't a fake. I didn't make what I would have felt were wasted trips at the time. She even called me a few times to get business, which I appreciated. Then her line gets disconnected, then reconnected, up and down, and finally after a couple months of this she is gone. I run into her a couple years later and it was fun, but she had aged--she said it was one problem after another.
One example of a fake number was from a dancer that volunteered her number to me. And, she even had me believing that she wanted me to call her--she always treated me excellent ITC, btw. Turns out the number she gave me had transposed digits. She apologized and repeated she would really like to hear from me. I said really? She says sure you've been a good customer and I don't want to lose contact with you again. Besides if I know the customer OTC is fine. So I thought boy she sounds serious. I think there is a better than 50% chance she telling me the truth i.e. she wants me to call so she can make some money OTC. Nope, it was just part of her game or whatever.
Other fake numbers are just disconnected which could mean she is poor at paying her phone bill. One dancer who gave me a fake number got all pissed when her friend made some good money OTC off of a friend of mine. She goes yapping why didn't you call me!? I could have used the money! Oh gee, you remember you gave me a fake number and your friend didn't? Could that be why your friend is bragging about all the money she made and you're giving me attitude? That shuts her up for a moment as she seems to realize her mistake, but then she wants to give me her real number. I say fine, but it is rare that I have a friend in need who is willing to pay well. That didn't make her happy. I said sorry its the truth. Then she thinks I'm trying to punish her. It is like get real-- You're a hot woman and if you do a good job then that's the bottom line. Her sense of "empathy" wouldn't accept the truth.
Jablake: Usually somebody starts a thread because they have a problem or a question calling for suggestions or feedback. Your thread title seemed to say that this dancer was withholding something to which you thought you were were entitled, so I took that to be your problem and I made a suggestion. If that was all wrong, then just what was your question? Frankly, I'm usually at a loss with your threads to tell what kind of response you are calling for.
It was an experience. I like to write about experiences. Positive and negative.
In this case I was setting forth a belief (and what I should have done differently and why). One that is unpopular with some customers and some dancers. The belief is that if you like a dancer and feel she may be temporary seize the moment. Show a little in the way of balls and ask for her phone number.
In that original experience it seemed like things were going great! She took all my money--a too frequent occurence when I like a dancer. And, she was even kind enough to give a couple perfect laps for free. She was concerned about giving out her phone number so I explained that I just didn't want to lose contact if she went somewhere else. She says NO if she had any intention of leaving then she'd definitely give me her number. We had a date scheduled for the next Saturday and in fact I went looking for her on the days she said she'd be working.
Well, all of that is fine and wonderful except I forgot one important point. This was Angels. Angels can be very rough on new dancers especially if they're not in battle gear e.g. NO tats, No piercing, No blubber, No gold teeth, No ebonics, etc. See, if I'd been thinking better and been more aggressive, I think I could have convinced her that it would be safe to give me her phone number and the reason it would be in her interest. It just would have taken a little explaining or a lot of explaining that new girls may think they're going to work at Angels, but the reality can be a lot different and too often is.
As far as the title, yes, she refused to hand over her phone number. Did I think I had a right to it? No, of course not. But, I do feel I should have been just a little more aggressive and more importantly I should have explained why I thought her career at Angels would be short. Once she made it clear she planned on being a regular, I gave up way too easy because there was NO point. If she is actually going to be a regular, then I don't need her number.
The thread title merely reflects my remorse that I didn't act more aggressively.
Jablake: In that case, I'll probably forgo responding to your threads from now on. Not that I have illusions that will disappoint anyone. However, I stand by my suggestions in this thread. I don't believe your contempt for empathy does do you any favors.
As for seizing the moment, here's what it means to me: Making the most of the time I spend with a stripper in the club. That night. Because chances are I'll never see her again. Strippers disappear overnight without a trace all the time. They don't leave any forwarding address, because that's the way they want it. If I see her again, great. If not, that's life. There isn't much you can do about it. You could be aggressive about getting all their phone numbers, then waste a lot of time and energy trying to call them, but to what end? For me, that would be missing the whole point of seizing the moment - diverting my attention from the immediacy of the experience in order to set up a future rendezvous to repeat the experience. That's not my idea of fun.
Sure, if I've had a good time with a stripper, I'll ask her what nights she's usually there, and keep that in mind for my next visit. Once in a while, we might exchange phone numbers, or she might insist we stay in touch, but I don't hang a lot of hopes on that or base any plans around it. And when it doesn't happen, it's not for lack of aggressiveness or moment seizing on my part. It's usually because, believe it or not, strippers don't want their work life following them home.
The point about strip clubs for me is this: They get a whole bunch of girls together in one place so you don't have to worry about making arrangements. What a concept. You find a club that you can count on to have girls you like and you just.....go there. At your convenience. No need for the kind of phone list keeping that makes real life dating so tedious. If you see a girl you've had fun with before, you might choose her again. Or you might pick one you've never seen before. Seize the moment.
Believe it or not and I my "empathy" for you tells me you won't be able to believe it----Not all strippers are the same.
Not all strippers are the same.
I know that is something you can't understand or accept, but really it is true. One stripper might like to be treated like a total lady. Another stripper might want to be treated like a cum hole.
Yikes! You think there ought to be a law against people err strippers having different likes and dislikes? :)
Actually a whole bunch of girls isn't nearly as appealing as one hot dedicated stripper to some people. What a concept!
Strip club customers are not all the same. I know, you just can't accept that. Some actually want blubber blobs. Some want sluts. Some don't like touching. Do we need a law to make one size fit all?
I also noted your use of "what a concept." As if anybody could figure that out. Did you have a different meaning?
I'd rather see the same dancer over and over especially if we seemed to really hit it off and she wasn't wearing a bunch tags i.e. No brandings, No tats. What you described is better than nothing, but as I said I like seeing the same dancer again and again.
Let's say the dancer at Angels was telling me the truth. She had bills and needed money and was going to be a regular at Angels. She also liked appreciated my business and intended on seeing me the next Saturday--actually looking forward to it. She was new to the business and felt uncomfortable about giving out her number.
We don't know what happened next. She changed her mind. Car accident. Regular dancers at Angels showed her a little loving. Anything is possible. Of those possibilities, I believe there is a reasonable chance she wishes that she had given me her number. And, I think she got an unpleasant surprise on what it is like to work at Angels if you don't fit in e.g. No tats, No branding, No piecrcing, No ebonics.
If I spoken up and showed less "empathy" by being more aggressive (which actually some dancers like), then she might have earned more money and been happier. Or, I could have showed more "empathy" by being more aggressive (which actually some dancers like), then she might have earned more money and been happier.
I'm a little late in making comments on this topic, but I agree with chandler 100 percent about the reliability of dancers. I've been seeing my current ATF for a little more than a year now. She made it clear from the beginning that she does not give her phone number to anyone. I respected her for that and never pressed her for her number despite having to drive over 2 hours to this club. She said she always works weekends so I could always count on her being there. We never pre-arranged a date and except for one time, she was always there. I'll admit, it would have been nice to have her number for the past year, just for peace of mind, but it worked out nicely. She was steadfastly reliable.
On the other hand, when I read comments from guys on this board who seem to get phone numbers from girls after one or two visits, I did feel a little cheated or deprived. But patience pays off....this weekend, out of no where, she finally did give me her name and number. I promised her I still have no intention of seeing her OTC or calling her, but it was a nice gesture.
Glad to hear you got her number. Whether that's good or bad probably depends on you almost as much as or more than the dancer. I have positive experiences and negative experiences with dancer phone numbers. Overall, I'd say it is more positive for me. Somebody else may take the same exact experience and see it as horrible. I think the difference may be that I'm coming from the position that I don't know what's on her plate. After hours she may have NO time even for her own children. Who knows. It's not too important but could be very nice if you enjoy seeing the same dancer again and again as I do.
I'd rather she take the money from me. It is a MUCH better deal. Keep the bitch under my thumb! ;) Actually, if only that were true that she cared enough about money to act responsibly. I pay the money to try and keep myself from forming really deep attachments. And, it seems to work fairly well overall. Of course, my aging also helps contain my emotions.
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I seem to worry more about the dancers who may not come back unless I get dances from them. I don't want to be considered as a source of income at least not on a regular basis unless she is giving me some dances I really like.
She might also think I'm a pervert for going to a strip club. :) Those women who have a fear of stalkers mentality are exactly the type women I'd rather AVOID, so better to find out sooner than later. Another type of women that I wish to AVOID are those who get upset when asked if a particular service is available. A real turn-off. A simple NO or that's not for me by the dancer would suffice.
Besides I doubt she felt uncomfortable or was worrying about nonsense like stalkers or she wouldn't have given me a couple free dances--very good ones at that. I think the point was I didn't have anything to worry about because she planned on coming to the club regularly at that particular time so I would have NO problem finding her.
I should have been more forceful and said hey you can always ignore me, but I just think you are too sweet to be able to keep working at the club. I've seen it too many times where a woman wants to work and then gets forced out by dancers or management or a creep. I will only call if I don't see you for awhile, I won't call more than 3 times, etc.
Personally, I think there is nothing to lose by asking for the dancer's phone number. If it upsets her, then good riddance. If she says, NO then you haven't lost anything anyway. If she says, YES then you *might* be able to keep in contact to both parties benefit.
The reason for rushing it applies where the dancer is too good for the club or you can tell she'd prefer escort work or her hours are going to be erratic, or etc.
I remember this one dancer. She was a pro, but felt so soft and seemed so happy. The way she looked caused my heart some problems--irregular beat. She takes every last dollar, which was fine. I thought she is way too classy (No tats, little to NO makeup, quality costume) to be doing $5 dances----I better ask for her phone number even though this was the first time I'd seen her.
Predictably, she said NO. I thought, yes she is just too hot and seems strictly ITC, which is fine. I asked why she said NO and was surprised by her answer. She was used to earning $30 or more per lap and she considered this a vacation! I say what? She says this is a vacation because it is so different than an upscale club, the people are really wild and poor and this is just a 1 day vacation. I learned she was available OTC, but for a minimum of $400 per hour. I really would like to be able to pay that! :)
There is nothing wrong with asking for numbers. I do that myself, however it usually takes more than one visit before they give me their number, if they ever do. I don't blame them if they say no. They have no idea if I am a creep or not, at least not until they get to know me better, and even then, there's no guarantee that you are ok.
When I ask for numbers, it isn't specifically to try and get OTCs, though eventually, that is a goal, if I enjoy being with her. When I find a girl that I really like, I want her number to make sure she is working when I want to visit, especially since my visits are usually a three hour drive. I am typically not driving that distance without knowing a fav will be there.
The last time that I asked for a number, actually I didn't come out and ask for her number, I asked "how can I make sure you will be working the next time that I come here?". It was a HINT for a number, but not quite direct enough. Her response? She said "just call the club and ask if I'm working", which I CAN do, but there's no way I can plan ahead using that method. Since I have an ATF and my schedule revolves around her, I didn't pursue it further (no need to make her think she had me wrapped around her finger, right?). Now, I hear this girl has left the club, so in hindsight, I am quite regretful that I didn't press her for the number.
Hi DougS: Yes, I think the $400 would have been well spent. :) Don't be depressed if you get a fake number or she just doesn't answer her calls--that's even when she volunteers her number and asks for you to call! Just a game some strippers and non-strippers, male and female, like to play probably to boost their ego, which in most cases hardly seems to need boosting. :)
Hi chandler: Religious brainwashing has made me a little aggressive in asking for what I want. I think it is a good thing. :) As far as waiting there are at least 2 negatives with that. First, I won't get the really innocent type that I like. Second, the non-innocent ones I really like seem to go to other clubs or go escort or whatever, the point being they leave. Private lives? LOL! I hardly think asking for her phone number is in itself and intrusion into her private life because she can say NO and it isn't personal like how much money do you make or does your family know or etc.
I ask a laborer for their phone number----oh my god what a personal question to ask him or her!
I guess it is a question of drawing lines and when you draw them. Some dancers freak if you grab a titty. I still grab titties and if she doesn't like it I stop and stop buying dances from her. Other dancers may have other lines like NO dirty talk--I don't talk dirty unless saying you're hot you're beautiful you're in great shape is considered dirty. Others go off the deep end if you ask if full service is on the menu--that type is a true turn-off. Also, if a dancer went off the deep end or even resented my just asking for her number I would find it a turn-off. Answering NO is 100% fine, but I would like to think she understand that some customers and dancers actually DO want to keep in contact and you won't find out unless you ask--surprise surpise.
BTW, ime calling the club to find out if a particular dancer is working doesn't work. Perhaps at the upscale clubs it isn't a problem. The normal response I've received is that you have to come in to find out.
So if the dancer doesn't work regular hours it can be time wasting and expensive. That was only a problem when I preferred to see the same dancer over and over. Now, it is just show me the quality. Yes, it is nice to see familiar faces, but usually it isn't worth the hassle of trying to set up times with a dancer who works whenever.
Anyway, in my experience, getting stripper phone numbers in order to ensure meeting up with them in the club is mostly useless. The paradox is that the type of girls who don't keep a regular schedule are the same ones who don't return calls or even retain the same phone. (They're also usually the most fun.) The girls who you can reach by phone are the ones you don't need to call, because they're so reliable about being there when they say they will. The sad fact is it's just not a trade that conforms well to an appointment mentality.
If the price of empathy is missing opportunities because by some odd chance someone may be offended, then screw empathy. I mean that sincerely. It is like the young lady (Publix) cashier who got pissed because I asked if there was chance I could take her to lunch or dinner at her favorite restaurant. In her mind she had a very good reason for being pissed and I appreciated her telling me, why. It turns out she thought it was disgusting for an old man to date or try to date a young woman. Boo hoo. If I had known beforehand, then of course I would respect her wishes. You know something? There are young women who have NO problem dating an old man--worse, a poor old man who won't give them money.
Congratulations, you've managed to show me the dark side of empathy. :)
You are definitely correct that getting the number is *mostly* useless. It is the exception which makes it worthwhile to me.
As to the titty grabbing. This one dancer made it very clear NO titty grabbing allowed. No, big deal. I paid my $5 and said maybe in future we can have better dances. She was fairly cold and walks off angry. Turns out this was my lucky day. I had money and there were plenty of dancers that were hot. So I'm buying dances like a crazy person and having a blast. Ms. MyTittiesAreOffLimits shows up and I greet her warmly and we have a nice conversation. Then she wants a dance. I say Oh No! Thanks anyway. She wants to know why. I tell her I'm a titty man and if that isn't on the board it just makes NO sense to buy dances. I'm happy just watching the show. She says the other customers don't care about titties. I say you mean most of the black customers don't care about titties. It seems they have very different tastes. She then says it is NO big deal to her and that I just caught her off guard. Not only did I spend on her then I ended up happily spending a lot of money on her in the future.
OTOH, some dancers don't want to give a dance if they know that's what you're expecting. That is absolutely fine.
It's all about knowledge. ONE way of gaining knowledge is by asking. To be silenced by weird notions of "empathy" is just too much.
Chandler: Good point about the reliability and dependability of the dancers. I never thought that one through, but you are right. However, those girls that I can count on, are the type of girls that I like. I don't want to spend time with an airhead that I can't count on. It's especially important in my case. I can't afford to arrange to see my fav or ATF at the club, then find out she's not there after driving HOURS to see her. Even worse, if I had an OTC arrangement and I can't count on her being there, I can't risk it. For me, an arranged OTC is going to cost me a minimum of $200 to start with (hotel + gas money).
A dancer says NO to providing a phone number. That's not a problem, unless the mere fact of requesting a phone number is a problem. I can see a dancer yelp how dare you ask for my phone number! Yes, I do indeed dare little lady. Sorry, if I'd known you thought it was big dealy and would get upset then I'd definitely have AVOIDED you.
As to the dancer's POV any reason she doesn't want to provide a phone number is fine. If she states why, then that is even better. And, any reason she gives is fine, such as I don't like you, I'm too busy, I never answer my phone, It's private, etc.
I remember this dancer she happily gives me her phone number and I think everything if fine and dandy. She says are you going to be upset when you learn that it is a fake number? I say No, because it happens too often. She laughs and says she was only joking, but that she won't do OTC so please don't call for that.
It was good. The number wasn't a fake. I didn't make what I would have felt were wasted trips at the time. She even called me a few times to get business, which I appreciated. Then her line gets disconnected, then reconnected, up and down, and finally after a couple months of this she is gone. I run into her a couple years later and it was fun, but she had aged--she said it was one problem after another.
One example of a fake number was from a dancer that volunteered her number to me. And, she even had me believing that she wanted me to call her--she always treated me excellent ITC, btw. Turns out the number she gave me had transposed digits. She apologized and repeated she would really like to hear from me. I said really? She says sure you've been a good customer and I don't want to lose contact with you again. Besides if I know the customer OTC is fine. So I thought boy she sounds serious. I think there is a better than 50% chance she telling me the truth i.e. she wants me to call so she can make some money OTC. Nope, it was just part of her game or whatever.
Other fake numbers are just disconnected which could mean she is poor at paying her phone bill. One dancer who gave me a fake number got all pissed when her friend made some good money OTC off of a friend of mine. She goes yapping why didn't you call me!? I could have used the money! Oh gee, you remember you gave me a fake number and your friend didn't? Could that be why your friend is bragging about all the money she made and you're giving me attitude? That shuts her up for a moment as she seems to realize her mistake, but then she wants to give me her real number. I say fine, but it is rare that I have a friend in need who is willing to pay well. That didn't make her happy. I said sorry its the truth. Then she thinks I'm trying to punish her. It is like get real-- You're a hot woman and if you do a good job then that's the bottom line. Her sense of "empathy" wouldn't accept the truth.
It was an experience. I like to write about experiences. Positive and negative.
In this case I was setting forth a belief (and what I should have done differently and why). One that is unpopular with some customers and some dancers. The belief is that if you like a dancer and feel she may be temporary seize the moment. Show a little in the way of balls and ask for her phone number.
In that original experience it seemed like things were going great! She took all my money--a too frequent occurence when I like a dancer. And, she was even kind enough to give a couple perfect laps for free. She was concerned about giving out her phone number so I explained that I just didn't want to lose contact if she went somewhere else. She says NO if she had any intention of leaving then she'd definitely give me her number. We had a date scheduled for the next Saturday and in fact I went looking for her on the days she said she'd be working.
Well, all of that is fine and wonderful except I forgot one important point. This was Angels. Angels can be very rough on new dancers especially if they're not in battle gear e.g. NO tats, No piercing, No blubber, No gold teeth, No ebonics, etc. See, if I'd been thinking better and been more aggressive, I think I could have convinced her that it would be safe to give me her phone number and the reason it would be in her interest. It just would have taken a little explaining or a lot of explaining that new girls may think they're going to work at Angels, but the reality can be a lot different and too often is.
As far as the title, yes, she refused to hand over her phone number. Did I think I had a right to it? No, of course not. But, I do feel I should have been just a little more aggressive and more importantly I should have explained why I thought her career at Angels would be short. Once she made it clear she planned on being a regular, I gave up way too easy because there was NO point. If she is actually going to be a regular, then I don't need her number.
The thread title merely reflects my remorse that I didn't act more aggressively.
As for seizing the moment, here's what it means to me: Making the most of the time I spend with a stripper in the club. That night. Because chances are I'll never see her again. Strippers disappear overnight without a trace all the time. They don't leave any forwarding address, because that's the way they want it. If I see her again, great. If not, that's life. There isn't much you can do about it. You could be aggressive about getting all their phone numbers, then waste a lot of time and energy trying to call them, but to what end? For me, that would be missing the whole point of seizing the moment - diverting my attention from the immediacy of the experience in order to set up a future rendezvous to repeat the experience. That's not my idea of fun.
Sure, if I've had a good time with a stripper, I'll ask her what nights she's usually there, and keep that in mind for my next visit. Once in a while, we might exchange phone numbers, or she might insist we stay in touch, but I don't hang a lot of hopes on that or base any plans around it. And when it doesn't happen, it's not for lack of aggressiveness or moment seizing on my part. It's usually because, believe it or not, strippers don't want their work life following them home.
The point about strip clubs for me is this: They get a whole bunch of girls together in one place so you don't have to worry about making arrangements. What a concept. You find a club that you can count on to have girls you like and you just.....go there. At your convenience. No need for the kind of phone list keeping that makes real life dating so tedious. If you see a girl you've had fun with before, you might choose her again. Or you might pick one you've never seen before. Seize the moment.
Believe it or not and I my "empathy" for you tells me you won't be able to believe it----Not all strippers are the same.
Not all strippers are the same.
I know that is something you can't understand or accept, but really it is true. One stripper might like to be treated like a total lady. Another stripper might want to be treated like a cum hole.
Yikes! You think there ought to be a law against people err strippers having different likes and dislikes? :)
Actually a whole bunch of girls isn't nearly as appealing as one hot dedicated stripper to some people. What a concept!
Strip club customers are not all the same. I know, you just can't accept that. Some actually want blubber blobs. Some want sluts. Some don't like touching. Do we need a law to make one size fit all?
I also noted your use of "what a concept." As if anybody could figure that out. Did you have a different meaning?
I'd rather see the same dancer over and over especially if we seemed to really hit it off and she wasn't wearing a bunch tags i.e. No brandings, No tats. What you described is better than nothing, but as I said I like seeing the same dancer again and again.
Let's say the dancer at Angels was telling me the truth. She had bills and needed money and was going to be a regular at Angels. She also liked appreciated my business and intended on seeing me the next Saturday--actually looking forward to it. She was new to the business and felt uncomfortable about giving out her number.
We don't know what happened next. She changed her mind. Car accident. Regular dancers at Angels showed her a little loving. Anything is possible. Of those possibilities, I believe there is a reasonable chance she wishes that she had given me her number. And, I think she got an unpleasant surprise on what it is like to work at Angels if you don't fit in e.g. No tats, No branding, No piecrcing, No ebonics.
If I spoken up and showed less "empathy" by being more aggressive (which actually some dancers like), then she might have earned more money and been happier. Or, I could have showed more "empathy" by being more aggressive (which actually some dancers like), then she might have earned more money and been happier.
On the other hand, when I read comments from guys on this board who seem to get phone numbers from girls after one or two visits, I did feel a little cheated or deprived. But patience pays off....this weekend, out of no where, she finally did give me her name and number. I promised her I still have no intention of seeing her OTC or calling her, but it was a nice gesture.
Glad to hear you got her number. Whether that's good or bad probably depends on you almost as much as or more than the dancer. I have positive experiences and negative experiences with dancer phone numbers. Overall, I'd say it is more positive for me. Somebody else may take the same exact experience and see it as horrible. I think the difference may be that I'm coming from the position that I don't know what's on her plate. After hours she may have NO time even for her own children. Who knows. It's not too important but could be very nice if you enjoy seeing the same dancer again and again as I do.
I'd rather she take the money from me. It is a MUCH better deal. Keep the bitch under my thumb! ;) Actually, if only that were true that she cared enough about money to act responsibly. I pay the money to try and keep myself from forming really deep attachments. And, it seems to work fairly well overall. Of course, my aging also helps contain my emotions.