Can't remember TV program I saw this on. But about 3-4 nights ago, I watched an interview with a research firm that was talking about the anti-body tests. They were doing research on the anti-body tests and some medical personnel. They had given the anti body tests to a group of medical people that were working in the Covid units. The ones that tested positive, they were then going to expose them to people with the virus to see if the anti-bodies did indeed give that immunity. They said they would have those results some time in late May.
"let's be very clear:
1. not one US health organization can confirm that having the virus builds up an immunity against having it again
2. the WHO (for what they are worth) does not see any immunity or the antibodies lasting for any valuable period of time"
This is correct. Just like with hydroxychloroquine and any other number of theories spouted here and there, there is no current scientific basis for this belief, the preponderance of experts say. It's also not proven it doesn't exist, the evidence is inconclusive so far, it needs to be proven, along with how long it lasts. To be fair, many folks (including folks on this sub) who are proposing opening everything, are being straightforward in that they don't care either way whether herd immunity exists or not -- this is more about their subjective value judgement on life vs economics (which ALSO affects lives, I can respect).
In other news are you guys aware that the only country with the ability to get people into space and back like on the space station is Russia, would someone please tell Mr Trump about that
1. COVID-19 is not going away anytime soon; and
2. We simply cannot afford to stay shut down much longer and most certainly not long enough for a vaccine to be developed and tested, not without catastrophic results for U.S. households and even many state governments.
Now process all of that, slowly if needed. Both of these realities are finally starting to sink into the heads of state Governors, which is why even the blue states are slowly starting to ease restrictions.
But if anyone else has a realistic alternative to the current approach, then by all means do share.
@Rick - The sequestration of the populace has not been about waiting for it to go away or avoiding getting the virus over the entire length of the pandemic. It's simply to avoid overwhelming the health system causing high death rates for anyone needing critical care (of any type). Now that time allowed excess capacity to be built into the health care system measured risks can be taken to open up the economy once it's been established the curve has flattened. People will continue to get sick while we open back up unless there is a sudden surge that threatens the system again.
@twentyfive Elon is launching SpaceX rockets with NASA to get us to the ISS. There was a launch not long ago. Russia still has the upper hand but they no longer control all the access.
Looks like Tom Cruise is positioning himself for a SpaceX ride next....
@Upright: I am with you on all of that. Sadly though that is not how many media types and even some on this board saw the purpose of the lockdowns. In the minds of all too many, the goal was supposed to be virus eradication, which is why it has been so politically perilous to re-open up to this point.
Though I do wonder how leaders will react if there is another surge. I can't fathom any state returning to a full lockdown. It is much more likely that they'll do what every state not named New York should have done in the first place, which is to implement more targeted control measures.
Relevant to this subject, apparently TX gov Greg Abbott said stuff that ticked off some individuals. The left-wing SA current is having a field day with this.
https://m.sacurrent.com/the-daily/archiv…
@Spice Yep he is actually correct (measured risk vs. healing the economy) but again people with agendas seem to want to steer the conversation to the narrative they want.
^^^^^^ May I have 5 minutes of my life back ? As for herd immunity, nobody knows for sure yet whether or not that exists (yet) for Covid19. Wikipedia gives as good a laypersons definition of it with few concrete examples. It seems when compared to H1N1 (April 2009 to Aug 2010 in USA), SARS, and Ebola, Covid19 seems to be more contagious and virulent. Yet the later 2 didn't last as long and were more contained. H1N1 apparently affected much of the population, yet a vaccine was integrated into the flu shots in a matter of months as I recall. During that time, I violated the crap out of social distancing guidelines, rode several airliners, hotel elevators, etc, yet the worst I got during the 16 month time span was 1 garden variety cold. Present situation is tempered by the fact that all it takes is one to get you infected .
For some perspective on wtf is going on, I suggest weather.com. Clicking on the Covid19 link near top of section will bring up a chart showing a history of daily/total infection count for appropriate county or state. In many locations, a flattening of the curve can be observed, plus a longer time to double the number of cases.
Further scrolling down gives stats for all countries world wide on total number of cases, cases per 1000 population, and total number of deaths. In the 2nd category (cases per 1000), the USA has a higher number (3.67) versus other countries. Italy's numbers and Sweden's numbers are 3.5 and 2.26, respectively. It should be noted that both those 2 countries have a higher percentage death rate of total confirmed cases than USA. If USA had the same death rate as Italy, we'd have 170000 deaths instead of the 67000 we have now. I'll cease the statistical rambling now, I hope that weather.com link provides you all with the same factual perspective that it has provided me amidst all the speculation being bandied about.
As this is not the political forum I will try to temper my comments. I heard a doctor in an interview say that when you mix politics and medicine you end up with politics. At medical conferences research and theories are debated and often attacked but not the person behind them. Too many leaders from both parties have made decisions based on what they want to happen in November rather than what should be done now.
This country has to get the economy going again and that means those least affected going back to work. Continue more restrictive guidelines for people most at risk but use common sense thinking for the huge majority of the population. Government money being given out is a short term solution that is gonna bite us in the ass in the long term. Freedom means risk.
Some people will die from this. That is fact and I am not minimizing that but continuing an economic shutdown will cost far more in the end.
Every other article on testing is about how flawedthey are and how many give false positives. Testing might be the right key for another lock, but not this one. I will just wait for the 100% effective vaccine that alos prevents the virus from mutating...like we have created over the past 70 years with the 100% failsafe flu vaccine. Everyone dies, all the bullshit we're doing now will save some elderly and obese while the coming suicide toll as a aresult of economic destruction will be passed off by those who rely on the government for their support and the politicians that bae their wealth on their votes. 1% Bernie Sanders thanks you......
One of the theories floating out there is about viral load. The theory is that the amount of virus you initially take on will largely predict your outcome. That’s why infected health care workers and people in confined spaces ( mass transit, elevators, cruise ships ) have worse outcomes than infected people in rural areas.
If someone gets a light load, it acts like a vaccine. The body can fight it off while learning to make antibodies.
Will this be proven to be true ? Who the hell knows. But, it would transform how we handle the virus.
Well after all weren't the first flu vaccines weakened viral loads? That's why they used to make us feel sick. Now the flu shot just makes my lymph node swell up for a couple days.
Desert calling you stupid would be far too compilimentary. Attaining stupidity would be a worthy goal for your self-improvement. Might even make you a better liar than you are now. Your post above was barely imbelcilic. You're a pathetically bad trill and a loser. I understand why you are in awe of my life, because I am as well. Enjoy your sad life sonny. I need to water my lawn now.
I don't bake (we do call getting high getting baked though) and my wife makes a wonderful chicken pot pie. Tonight is strawberry walnut salad. I will take a pic and post it, so that impotent young men with a tiny penis will have something to whine abouit tomorrow. Make up better lies please, you sound so stupid you make me think of people I know who went to ASU.
Tens of thousands of medical procedures have been postponed in Ontario, Canada, anticipating a novel coronavirus patient surge that has yet to come, a report from the independent Financial Accountability Office (FAO) found late last month.
Delayed heart surgeries, for example, have already resulted in around 35 deaths, a University Health Network (UHN) report states.
the first corona victims were late last year,,,,,,,Trudeau sent 16 tons of masks to China, in February, what a mistake, but now we know what corona is, it is serious for people over 60,,,,,,,,,,and no deaths if your under 20....so the norm is corona was not actually that deadly,,,,,,,, but it spreads fast,............... over 10% of the global population has had it already
That's true, if Sweden had the same population as America does, the death toll would be 100,000-115,000. Sweden shouldn't even be having that many deaths, Sweden's population density is incredibly low compared to Europe and is even lower than the US. Italy's population density is almost 10x higher than Sweden's, Spain's density is almost 5x more dense, France's density is 6x higher, the UK is 13.5x more dense, Belgium is 19x more dense, and the Netherlands is 21x more dense. Its not surprising that the virus has a much easier time spreading in the rest of Europe, but Sweden is also one of the healthiest populations in the world during normal conditions. The US on the other hand, has extremely high rates of obesity and diabetes. Its not surprising that we are getting hit pretty hard. Given the characteristics of Sweden, they should barely be getting affected by it like Norway and Finland. But they're not, its obvious that not shutting down is the reason why they've had so many deaths.
Apparently that doesn't stop deniers like the protesters in Michigan from acting as if Sweden is some kind of success story though.
The only thing I think the coronavirus deniers are right about is that weather really does seem to have a tremendous impact on the viruses' ability to spread. Indonesia, India, and Pakistan should be getting devastated right now but they seem to be doing fairly okay. Although Brazil shows if your president is stupid enough even the weather might not save you.
In the last couple weeks, the infection rate in Sweden has gone from 10% to 25%. It might be 50% in a couple more weeks. That’s all as expected for a country seeking herd immunity.
Since it takes about 3 weeks from time of infection to death, the number of deaths in Sweden could increase 5x in the next month. That’s equivalent to 500,000 deaths in the US.
The key factor is how good a job the Swedes are doing at isolating the elderly and vulnerable. We’ll have an answer in about a month.
"Sweden was a success story for strong people and a failure for cowardly sheeple."
I'm sorry, are we medieval knights charging into war? What's this talk of strong people and cowardly people? In this situation, there are only logical people and dumb people. Thankfully we are past the age of history that promoted survival of the fittest type ideologies that would've shrugged at tens of thousands of deaths.
Everyone who runs away always has a logical excuse ... More people will end up dying as a result of the lockdown and they won't be people who were old and those who didn't give a fuck about their health until now.
===> "The key factor is how good a job the Swedes are doing at isolating the elderly and vulnerable. We’ll have an answer in about a month."
Agreed. But it may be several months longer before we can truly gauge how successful their strategy was vs. those of countries with lockdowns because, in some respects, we may be several months behind them in terms of population immunity.
I’ve been working every day pretty much and I don’t believe most of you guys and your wild claims, we are being careful and mindful of the dangers, and following the guidelines and if much of what many of y’all are saying is true, there will be fewer posters here in the not so distant future.
Research is beginning to point at Vitamin D deficiency as a major risk factor for CoVid. There is a correlation between low D and those who die. Since the body creates vitamin D as a result of sunlight on skin, this could explain quite a lot.
mark94 vitamin D is important........... a follow member message me this.......... back in 1918. Since that was before antibiotics, the internet and other medical advances, they erected field hospitals in the warm desert sun. The theory being sunlight and warm fresh air were natural disinfectants.
The theories have been that vitamin D -- which people have higher levels of in the summer -- is one of the factors in the flu pulling back in warmer weather, also. I don't believe this theory as ever been completely proven, despite multiple studies showing interesting correlation. I've seen papers discussing correlation with covid19 also. Vitamin D appears to regulate the cytokine storms that are what's actually killing many people. Some other interesting correlations, which further results coming: while people on immuno suppressive drugs are, predictably, also associated with much higher mortality, there is a particular class of immuno suppressive drug that only knocks out a portion of the immune system, and people on that drug might be faring very well. Theory is that that drug is knocking out the part of the immune system responsible for the cytokine storm, but not the other parts which fight the virus directly. If confirmed, it points to the use a class of easily-available treatments that target part of the immune system
If we're talking about excuses that's one hell of a lousy one. The biggest reason why younger people die is car accidents. And most people are not driving cars very much right now.
45 comments
1. not one US health organization can confirm that having the virus builds up an immunity against having it again
2. the WHO (for what they are worth) does not see any immunity or the antibodies lasting for any valuable period of time"
This is correct. Just like with hydroxychloroquine and any other number of theories spouted here and there, there is no current scientific basis for this belief, the preponderance of experts say. It's also not proven it doesn't exist, the evidence is inconclusive so far, it needs to be proven, along with how long it lasts. To be fair, many folks (including folks on this sub) who are proposing opening everything, are being straightforward in that they don't care either way whether herd immunity exists or not -- this is more about their subjective value judgement on life vs economics (which ALSO affects lives, I can respect).
1. COVID-19 is not going away anytime soon; and
2. We simply cannot afford to stay shut down much longer and most certainly not long enough for a vaccine to be developed and tested, not without catastrophic results for U.S. households and even many state governments.
Now process all of that, slowly if needed. Both of these realities are finally starting to sink into the heads of state Governors, which is why even the blue states are slowly starting to ease restrictions.
But if anyone else has a realistic alternative to the current approach, then by all means do share.
Looks like Tom Cruise is positioning himself for a SpaceX ride next....
Though I do wonder how leaders will react if there is another surge. I can't fathom any state returning to a full lockdown. It is much more likely that they'll do what every state not named New York should have done in the first place, which is to implement more targeted control measures.
https://m.sacurrent.com/the-daily/archiv…
https://www.yahoo.com/news/she-predicted…
For some perspective on wtf is going on, I suggest weather.com. Clicking on the Covid19 link near top of section will bring up a chart showing a history of daily/total infection count for appropriate county or state. In many locations, a flattening of the curve can be observed, plus a longer time to double the number of cases.
Further scrolling down gives stats for all countries world wide on total number of cases, cases per 1000 population, and total number of deaths. In the 2nd category (cases per 1000), the USA has a higher number (3.67) versus other countries. Italy's numbers and Sweden's numbers are 3.5 and 2.26, respectively. It should be noted that both those 2 countries have a higher percentage death rate of total confirmed cases than USA. If USA had the same death rate as Italy, we'd have 170000 deaths instead of the 67000 we have now. I'll cease the statistical rambling now, I hope that weather.com link provides you all with the same factual perspective that it has provided me amidst all the speculation being bandied about.
This country has to get the economy going again and that means those least affected going back to work. Continue more restrictive guidelines for people most at risk but use common sense thinking for the huge majority of the population. Government money being given out is a short term solution that is gonna bite us in the ass in the long term. Freedom means risk.
Some people will die from this. That is fact and I am not minimizing that but continuing an economic shutdown will cost far more in the end.
If someone gets a light load, it acts like a vaccine. The body can fight it off while learning to make antibodies.
Will this be proven to be true ? Who the hell knows. But, it would transform how we handle the virus.
46 bottles of beer...
Delayed heart surgeries, for example, have already resulted in around 35 deaths, a University Health Network (UHN) report states.
That's true, if Sweden had the same population as America does, the death toll would be 100,000-115,000. Sweden shouldn't even be having that many deaths, Sweden's population density is incredibly low compared to Europe and is even lower than the US. Italy's population density is almost 10x higher than Sweden's, Spain's density is almost 5x more dense, France's density is 6x higher, the UK is 13.5x more dense, Belgium is 19x more dense, and the Netherlands is 21x more dense. Its not surprising that the virus has a much easier time spreading in the rest of Europe, but Sweden is also one of the healthiest populations in the world during normal conditions. The US on the other hand, has extremely high rates of obesity and diabetes. Its not surprising that we are getting hit pretty hard. Given the characteristics of Sweden, they should barely be getting affected by it like Norway and Finland. But they're not, its obvious that not shutting down is the reason why they've had so many deaths.
Apparently that doesn't stop deniers like the protesters in Michigan from acting as if Sweden is some kind of success story though.
The only thing I think the coronavirus deniers are right about is that weather really does seem to have a tremendous impact on the viruses' ability to spread. Indonesia, India, and Pakistan should be getting devastated right now but they seem to be doing fairly okay. Although Brazil shows if your president is stupid enough even the weather might not save you.
Since it takes about 3 weeks from time of infection to death, the number of deaths in Sweden could increase 5x in the next month. That’s equivalent to 500,000 deaths in the US.
The key factor is how good a job the Swedes are doing at isolating the elderly and vulnerable. We’ll have an answer in about a month.
I'm sorry, are we medieval knights charging into war? What's this talk of strong people and cowardly people? In this situation, there are only logical people and dumb people. Thankfully we are past the age of history that promoted survival of the fittest type ideologies that would've shrugged at tens of thousands of deaths.
Agreed. But it may be several months longer before we can truly gauge how successful their strategy was vs. those of countries with lockdowns because, in some respects, we may be several months behind them in terms of population immunity.
If we're talking about excuses that's one hell of a lousy one. The biggest reason why younger people die is car accidents. And most people are not driving cars very much right now.