ROLE PLAYING

Once did the rape thing. My wife and her girl friend tied my hands and legs to the bed and had their way with me. Other than that just lying to them to get into their pants.

There's always an element of role playing with strippers. Rather than try to get them to drop it and play "just being ourselves" roles (yawn), I try to encourage them to have fun with it. Last year I started a topic about this, which was met with a collective blank stare here, where imagination seems to be regarded with deep suspicion. Maybe seeing the term "role playing" on a sex site to many people means BDSM rituals with costumes, which sounds really boring to me. I like it unplanned. Anyway, here's what I posted then:

One night when my fave was wearing her plaid schoolgirl skirt and ponytail, I asked her out of the blue how come she always got straight As but never took any books home from school. She smiled and said, "I fuck my teachers." That set off a long role playing Q & A that we made up as we went along. From then on, each time I saw her, I was her teacher and she was the slutty student who would do anything for good grades. The storyline would be different each time. I'd keep her after school, or she'd ask me what she had to do to get an A plus on her report card.

Another fave played the role of my secretary who couldn't type or even make coffee. Some nights, the scenario was a job interview where she would show me some of the talents she could bring to the office. Or I would have to discipline her for offering to show her pussy to waiting clients instead of offering them a beverage. Bad secretary!

With most girls, it never develops into full-blown roles with backstories and all that. It's just a funny take on a situation that we riff on together for a few minutes, then maybe pick up again later. It's always spontaneous, never a matter of saying, "Okay, now let's adopt fantasy roles. I'll be a pirate, and you'll....." The thing is, for me at least, it's not much of a leap from the way I interact with any stripper who has a sense of fun. They already get to play a role anyway. Playing customer with a wallet gets kind of old.<

chandler - thanks for your input. I like the role playing you described. Ride on.

I think more people (men & women) would enjoy a little role playing in their sex lives, if not just to keep the home fires burning. I mean as human beings, our imaginations can stretch very far.

I always felt silly about it.

Sex is silly. Flirting and romance are incredibly silly. Is any of it possible to do without feeling silly?

Yeah, I feel that you CAN do sex without silly. Maybe that's the root of my problem. I do like silly-sex sometimes, but I also like o-mi-god-i-gotta-have-you-and-it-ain't-funny sex. And when a woman imposes the former onto my feeling of the latter, I feel that she's belittling me and being patronizing about the way that sexual desire controls me and my need for her. She's not treating MY NEEDS with enough weight, if she silly-izes it.

I know, it's not necessarily true, this feeling. But it's what "pops up" in my head as my sensation, if she's silly when I don't want silly.

Well, if you're wracked by insecurity about sex, I can see how you'd want turn a blind eye to how silly it all is. For me, pretending it's a perfectly dignified, humorless thing would be too absurd to attempt and not very fun for either of us. Role playing for me is such an instinctive way to enjoy sex I don't have to make it a conscious choice. It simply means engaging with the inherent drama and myth of romance and sex and bringing life to the story that unfolds between the two of us. Nothing elaborate. With strippers, the most common roles are.....stripper and john. She's the innocent girl next door with a promiscuous bad girl underneath, and I'm some variation on the drooling sleazeball. Not much of a stretch.

A favorite, although obviously dated from the Nicarguan contra days of my early twenties in the mid-80s, is that I'm the U.S. Marine Captain whose squadron has secured the Central American village from the communists, and she's the insurgent leader whose interrogation session with me gets a little off-topic.

I hadn't thought of that one in years until my recent Tijuana trip. But as a young lawyer I had a half-Peruvian girlfriend who found it entertaining.

Look at role playing this way......... haven't you enjoyed see the dancers in "school girl" outfits? nurse outfits? police officer outfits? In a way, isn't this role playing in our minds at least, that tells us that.... "gee, I'm always wanted to fondle/play with a lady cop, nurse", etc.

Instituting role play in a relationship, ITC or OTC, doesn't mean that sexual relations with that favorite person, i.e., wife, g/f, whoever, is getting boring. I will admit, it helps if the relationship does get boring, but is also fun with a healthy relationship.

Yes, Chitown, power imbalance is a huge turn-on as part of a sick role playing scenario.

Yes, Chitown, power imbalance is a huge turn-on as part of a sick role playing scenario.

"pretending it's a perfectly dignified, humorless thing would be too absurd to attempt and not very fun for either of us"

Well, that's not my alternative to silly. I just don't want to be belittled. I don't think it's that I'm "wracked by insecurity about sex" and there have been times in my life when the silliness was enjoyable to me, too. Just not the first few times with a new partner -- then, on those occasions, it's all about "oh my God I gotta have you." Kind of serious, desperate, horny, animalistic. Not to say it isn't capable of being silly in the longer run, of course. I don't object to silliness as a concept, just as an imposition when I don't happen to want it. I would never say it's humorless or perfectly dignified -- being an animal isn't dignified at all! :) That's half the enjoyment.

So, if I were to psychoanalyze myself, I'd have to say that insecurity about SEX isn't the thing which turns me mildly away from silliness for the initial episodes with a new partner; it's more, insecurity about POWER, since I want to be in charge, and I want her to be as desperate as I am for sexual activity, and therefore I don't want her to belittle me. Insecurity about my desirability being belittled by a woman -- that's certainly a fair analysis. Yup, I'm insecure, I admit it. :) But knowing that doesn't drive me to silliness, nope.

Oh, and to HappyLapper: I generally think of the "outfits" that you list (school girl, police officer) as non-entertaining. I like some of them because they are revelatory of the woman's body, dislike some of them because they conceal flaws which (later, in the VIP) may come as unwelcome surprises. But the role-play implied by them is utterly lost on me. A stripper with a plaid skirt and a men's white button-down shirt and hair in pony tails (school girl, supposedly) is still a stripper with nice or flabby legs, to me, depending more on the legs than the skirt.

I'm with Book Guy, role playing of the type mentioned above usually does little for me. I like silly but not that silly. Unless, of course, you think it's all role playing. That I won't dispute.

Perhaps what's silly is the way other people like their sex. Where Book Guy and I differ is that I don't see role playing as adding some optional element of silliness to sex, which otherwise would be serious. I find that sex goes better when we're both relaxed about it and not concerned about things like being belittled. That seems uptight to me to the point of silliness.

Like I said earlier, if it's as conscious as saying, "Let's now put on costumes and adopt fantasy roles," that ain't my bag. However, if I'm turned on by what she wears, and it happens to work into some role playing dialog, I'm game.

Chandler: I definitely do like feeling relaxed about it. I think that you're over-reading my concern about belittlement -- it's generally only about 5% of the whole mix, if that much. What I don't like is a girl who "defuses" the sex by laughing, trying to make it such a tickle-fest that it can't be a fuck-fest. That seems to me to betray some kind of avoidance.

And indeed, it is "all" role playing; and "none" of it is role playing, too.

Book Guy: Anyway, the point is that to say somebody else's kink would make you feel silly is sort of redundant. That's how all of us feel when we hear about others' approach to sex. "He likes it HOW?!?" Including me hearing about yours.

Hahaha, I like it "horny." When she's being "desperate" for my cock, is when I'm most happy with sex. I guess that means that I'm insecure about being able to make a woman want my cock? Or that I'm insecure about women, in general, being desperate for any man's cock, in general? But, am I insecure that TOO MANY women are TOO desperate for TOO MUCH cock, or that NOT ENOUGH women are desperate OFTEN for ENOUGH cock?

I should explain something I posted a while back:

Yes, Chitown, power imbalance is a huge turn-on as part of a sick role playing scenario.<

I didn't mean that at all judgmentally, simply as an observation. "Power imbalance" is always assumed to be a bad thing, but it really does spice up an encounter. I've known a few strippers who appreciated it. One told me about an older neighbor of her mom's who discovered that she was stripping. He invited her over to "use the pool", implying that if she did and lost her top, he wouldn't tell her mom about her secret. When she told me about this I said what a creep, then I said, "But you know, hearing that really turns me on, the power imbalance." And she replied, "Yeah, I know. The guy really turned me off, and I hated being in that position, but I get aroused telling about it." (What a girl!) Her real life dilemma happened to be an ideal role playing scenario.

A power imbalance is certainly bad when used to take unfair advantage in real life. It can be tantamount to rape. I'm not at all into any kind of rape fantasy, but almost all good role playing involves situations like Marine/insurgent or teacher/student. They sort of clarify things, I guess. I don't know how to analyze it, except that maybe the imbalance allows the weaker party to submit to acts they always wanted to do. It just feels good in an amoral, liberating way. (God, I feel like my explanation is only making it sound worse.) Humor plays a big part in it all. Same for "sick". I meant it as "twisted in a good way", or at least a way that feels good. You know, the way all the kids are saying it.

The fantasy here is Chandler believeing he is more creative or imaginative than the average TUSCLer. That is funny.

From his post about how and what he role plays could be a bad xerox copy of any bullshit Penthouse Forum story. Big imagination there.

Maybe it is the consistant yammering that causes people to view your posts with a blank stare Chandler. You tend to talk down to others here a lot. It does not suprise me when you do not recieve the reactions you desire.

The fantasy here is Chandler believeing he is [some words]<

Nice try hiding from your disgraced ID with another name switch, Parodyman/Badboy/Apesht. Amazing how slow these trolls are to learn that we can click IGNORE as fast as they can sneak back and try to disrupt our discussions.

As I've said elsewhere, the only role playing that I enjoy in a strip club is for us to pretend that it's real, that she likes me as a person, that I'm more to her than just a customer. That's the fantasy that I enjoy most in a club. Any of this other stuff just reinforces the fact that I'm just a customer, which ruins my fantasy for me. The girls who can figure that out quickly and act accordingly are the ones who get my money.

Chandler, I'm curious about what you mean by "unfair" advantage above. Is the fact that she's gorgeous give her an unfair advantage over me? Is my having money that she needs unfair to her? Seems to me that "fairness" is in the eyes of the beholder, especially in a strip club environment. "All's fair in love ..."

I can never fool myself into believing I'm anything but a customer, so I just try to have fun with the roles the strippers and I are playing.

FONDL, I was referring to taking unfair advantage of a power imbalance, such as teacher/student, employer/secretary, President/intern. Fun for role playing, bad for real life. If a girl takes unfair advantage of her beauty with me in a way that's tantamount to rape, I won't press charges.

A thought just occurred to me. Upon reading FONDL's description of his preferred fantasy -- "for us to pretend that it's real, that she likes me as a person, that I'm more to her than just a customer. That's the fantasy that I enjoy most in a club. Any of this other stuff just reinforces the fact that I'm just a customer, which ruins my fantasy for me" -- I recognized a great deal of myself in that story.

I, too, want to feel, for a little bit, that she's "into me."

But at the same time, I happen to hate situations at typical "locals" clubs where the girls spend most of their time "partying" rather than working. They hang with their high-school classmates, then during the 2-for-1 they wearily get up and troll the room once. If I want a dance, they "let" me pay for it, give a weak performance, and then return to acting like this isn't a work night. With some men they simply sit around and genuinely act like the men's company. This situation makes me cringe, whether or not I'm one of the guys having a good time with the girls. It's just so LAZY and LAME on the girls' part -- they aren't doing anything to improve my night, and they don't act like they know what the standards of performance at a "real" strip club would be like.

So, part of me likes a set-up where the girls behave as though they are there for the company not the money. But another part of me really dislikes it.

• act like they LIKE the men's company.

Sorry, left something out of that sentence.

Chandler, if you can never pretend that you're more than a customer sometime, maybe you lack imagination (just kidding, sorry but I couldn't resist.) Serously though, the other part of my fantasy, which I've eluded to at times, is that I'm helping the girl improve herself. Which is partly why I like girls who are taking classes of one sort or another or who are from disfunctional families - it makes me feel like I'm spending my money on a worthwhile cause. A girl who has no ambition doesn't interest me very much.

FONDL, I don't consider self-delusion a form of imagination. More a failure of imagination. (Just kidding.) As I described, I'm also into helping the girl improve. I tell her she's already got her scholarship right between her legs. And if she stays after class and lets her teacher have his way with her body, I'll see that she gets straight As on her report card. It's the least I can do to teach her how the world works. All for a worthwhile cause, of course.

You lost me there. Are you suggesting that, because my preferred fantasy is different from yours, that mine is self-dilusional? How can my fantasy be self-delusion if I know it's a fantasy? And if my fantasy is self-diluisional, aren't yours too?

You lost me there. Are you suggesting that, because my preferred fantasy is different from yours, that mine is self-dilusional? How can my fantasy be self-delusion if I know it's a fantasy? And if my fantasy is self-diluisional, aren't yours too?

FONDL: Nothing personal, but I consider imagination a positive, creative force, not one of denial and negation. It should reveal truth, not hide it. When a drunk simply says he's not a drunk, he's not being imaginative. When he says he's the King of Spain, and a trash can is his throne, he's using his imagination to create a new.......no, really FONDL, I meant it when I said just kidding.

I find this whole discussion to be extremely amusing. Why? Because it's based on the fallacious assumption that role-playing is somehow different from what we normally do. The truth is that we're all role playing all of the time, there isn't anything else. The Bard was correct when he stated that all the world's a stage and we are all actors. Some of you have been playing your primary role for so long that you can't admit to yourself that's it's a role anymore. That's what I call denial.

FONDL: All kidding aside this time, what you call your fantasy I would say is the basic suspension of disbelief that we all buy into as customers when we go to a strip club. We set aside the realization that the strippers are only acting like they enjoy being there in our company. Much like seeing a play and tuning out the reality that you're watching actors in order to immerse yourself in the characters and the story - except that you're in the play. If you know that's what you're doing, it takes a modicum of imagination to accept it and play along. If you aren't aware of it, you're just plain gullible. We've seen plenty of posts from gullible types who take strippers at face value and conclude that they are more than customers, as well as those who turned relentlessly bitter upon discovering that they they had been "had" all along. They, I would say, suffer from a failure of imagination.

While I buy into the suspension of disbelief, I can't help slipping in and out of it. With a stripper, I don't try to absolutely tune out the reality of our customer/stripper relationship. To always do that would be a bit more straitlaced than I'm comfortable with. I can't help but make fun of the artifice and move beyond it to more playful fantasies, including light role playing. That's all I meant when I said I "can never fool myself into believing I'm anything but a customer."

Chandler, you've stumbled across the main reason I don't drink much in strip clubs. Alcohol make it too easy to buy in to the stripper fantasy. It's always good to be fairly sober when supervising my inner child.

I "can't help" slipping in and out of that suspension of disbelief, too. I do "deliberately buy into it," sure. And sometimes, I'm not at a club to play in that ballpark. The disbelief-fantasy is quite often beside the point for me. I'm often at a club for the other reason -- REAL service, of a tactile and sexual kind. In those cases I'm not suspending any disbelief, I'm looking for actual contact, and actual prices, both of which will be actually real, and therefore entirely believable.

But aside from those experiences, I can also, almost never, "fool myself" into believing I'm anything but a customer. This is good -- strong grip on reality. It's bad -- weak imagination. It's good -- won't fall in unrequited "love" and become a sucker. It's bad -- won't fall in "love" and enjoy myself.

Book Guy: Even when you're looking just to get serviced, isn't it important that your stripper/provider display a good attitude? Wouldn't you prefer that she act as though she's enjoying it, instead of openly showing her true indifference/hostility/disgust? I think that much-praised "good attitude" is a very basic part of what creates the strip club fantasy vibe that we all buy into without thinking much about it.

Chandler, I agree completely. I don't mind feeling like just a customer as long as the girl has a good attitude. In fact that's pretty much what I look for when I'm in a club where I don't know anyone. It's only once I've really gotten to know the girl and have become her regular that I want to feel like more than just a customer. In fact that's what it takes for me to become her regular in the first place. That's why my ATF is my ATF, she made me feel like more than just a customer from our very first meeting. And she never stoped doing that.

Chanlder: "Book Guy: Even when you're looking just to get serviced, isn't it important that your stripper/provider display a good attitude? Wouldn't you prefer that she act as though she's enjoying it, instead of openly showing her true indifference/hostility/disgust? I think that much-praised "good attitude" is a very basic part of what creates the strip club fantasy vibe that we all buy into without thinking much about it."

Oh, certainly, yes yes. But I don't fall in love with my car salesman either. "Good attitude" isn't necessarily "get an Oscar for brilliant portrayal that utterly fools me into believing I actually DO HAVE A GIRLFRIEND AND IT IS HER."

Book Guy: There are many degrees of fooling oneself that come far short of believing your lap dancer's performance is a sign of true love. The one that I think practically all of us buy into to some degree from the second we walk in the door is the illusion that the strippers are doing what they enjoy. (Not that it should matter to us whether they enjoy it or just act like they do.) They manage to make it look like all of them acting sexy and friendly towards a crowd of old fat, balding shleps is the most natural thing in the world. Of course, it defies all common sense if you step back and consider it. But we don't, we just accept it, even expect it, as normal. Even some strippers lose track of what's real and what's the illusion of upside down strip club reality.

Although it's true that a car showroom has its own set of illusions and feigned friendliness, I think the fact that displays of affection and intimacy are the product puts strip clubs in a whole other category.

Using strippers, versus car salesmen, as a metaphor, has a mild discrepancy. The car salesmen are (technically) selling something OTHER than the mere act of company with THEMSELVES. Sure, a sales technique might include "make the buyer like you" in some manner; but in the long run, you don't spend money for access to HIM, you spend money for access to the CAR that he holds the keys to. The strippers actually get us to spend money for access to THEM. Not some product (though, perhaps, a "service" might be categorized that way?).

So, their very identity is at question. Do they REALLY like me? And therefore, are they REALLY "likeable" and am I really likeable and so on. These questions are harder to deal with, when the product and its salesperson are one and the same.

I don't actually think most strippers "like" their jobs, but they don't "dislike" them any more than your average McDonald's worker "dislikes" his or her job. (I'm guessing, here.) Different women, different situations, there will be different levels of pleasure or pain. I'm sure there are a few "happy hookers" out there who genuinely love a lot of the aspects -- pleasing other people, meeting a variety of human types, being ooh'ed and aah'ed over, honing their dance skills, getting plenty of money for what "feels" like very little effort, having flexible hours and an opportunity to build their own career, little educational or certification requirement. From an objective point of view, much of that (IF it's actually true for a given stripper) is a rather good deal, as far as many work situations go. Beats the heck out of other manual labor without benefits.

But then, I'm sure plenty of girls are acting a LOT more pleased with the situation than they actually ARE. I had one of those "up close and personal" experiences with a hottie recently, in which we "hit it off" on the rapport-meter, and then I allowed myself to fondle her for an exorbitant fee, too. I genuinely BELIEVE, in REAL-WORLD civilian terms, that she "liked" me and finds me attractive. I think that IF we had met in a situation in which the rapport could have been established OUTSIDE of a strip club, the two of us would have wanted to jump one another sexually, she might have "made me wait" and there might have been social difficulties about who made the first move or who was supposed to call whom back, but eventually we'd both "have the hots" for one another, make out, hook up, become a romantic couple. At least, that possibility WOULD have existed, because, and I REALLY believe this, she found me attractive. But of course, BECAUSE we met in a strip club, I knew that I wouldn't be able to pursue that -- at least, not on the basis of our club meeting; I'd have had to start over, if I had wanted to pursue her as a "real" girlfriend. So, yes, I DO believe that it CAN happen that she "wants" to be with me or many of her other customers.

But then, I'm a "good customer" (or, at least, I was that night). I'm younger, better looking than many men, better dressed, I have more disposable cash than the conformist college boys who arrive and make drunken fools of themselves. I know how and when to shave, behave with respect, keep up appearances, don't get all gropey, all that stuff. As a mildly older male, I provide her with a lot of the stuff that she would want in any relationship -- more of the 'experience' that plenty of her customers DON'T have. I think most TUSCL readers are probably like this. We've been at the strip club game long enough to know how to avoid the typical pitfalls into which so many newbie customers might fall.

This suggests to me, that yes, she REALLY enjoyed the experience. Not JUST for the money. She 'wanted' to be there, found me 'truly' attractive -- enough (not splendiferously; just, to enough of a degree) -- and therefore, the "fantasy" has a LARGE dose of reality.

Which is what makes it better, and worse, for me. I don't believe she and I will ever hook up. I won't try to make it happen. I'm capable of backing away from the experience, and saying to myself, "You met her in a strip club. You know very little about her. Her life is likely going to soon turn down a few corners where you'd rather not go. And anyway, she now has to view you, by definition, as a customer first, which pretty much scotches your chance of ever having a civilian relationship with her." I can keep that in my mind long enough to go fuck an AMP provider, or at least get an intense lapper at another club so that my brain stops obsessing over the first provider.

But does that mean, the "fantasy" was ALL fantasy? No, I don't think so. I know enough strippers in their non-strip-club lives to know, that what they positively respond to is the same as what all female humans do, give or take, within normal limits. It's not like they can turn themselves into automatons -- or, at least, only the most jaded can, and even then, the act is pretty easy to discern.

But that means, as I said, I love it more, and hate it more. I've just deliberately walked away from a woman whom I could have hooked up with, IF ONLY my life circumstances and hers were ever so slightly different, IF ONLY the social gulf had been breached in a different manner than the obvious one, of me being a customer of hers at a strip club. I haven't ever, in my life, crossed that social gulf in a manner that enables civilian relationship, not with any woman whom I'd like to have a relationship with; so I don't really know what it's like, to have that "rapport tactic" with someone you want to have it with. That's why it's rather more painful for me to find a "great connection" with a woman but only in a fantasy context, and to believe that it is genuinely reciprocated -- I feel all the more the lack of it in my real life.

Anyway, as I was saying, before I got carried away with the thoughts of the girl I'm definitely not obsessing over ... :) ...

I think a lot of girls like it less than they let on. If the question is, how much of it is role playing, then I'm going to have to say that a good solid 50%, at least, and that's for 90% of the girls doing the work. They've been plying men with their charms all their adolescent lives, and a lot of that isn't necessarily about what they like or dislike doing. So, when they start doing it for money in a strip club, are they thinking, "Yeah, I REALLY ENJOY finding out whether the fat guy prefers me to waggle my ass or to just bend over; yeah I REALLY want to undergo the FUN process of FINDING OUT whether to touch him on his arm or his leg"? No, I don't think so. It's not "fascinating" to them the way that computer programming is "fascinating" to someone who does C++ in his spare time "just to see" whether or not he can get his compiler to turn red and green automatically.

And some are disgusted by the whole thing. Getting jaded about it is one thing; being older and worried about long-term career prospects is probably another thing that gets in their craw. And aside from those rather more cerebral responses, can't they just find someone to be too alcohol-smelling, too hairy, too ugly, too fat? What about someone who is just boring? I guess some girls would find that to be an "opportunity" to bring light and enjoyment into even the darkest corner, but most would just find it a downer.

So, yeah, there's levels of fantasy and reality. I guess we all knew that already. OK I'll shut up now. G'nite ...

That's what I just said in so many words.

No, seriously, I don't know about all the minutiae of what strippers think. The point is merely that they create an illusion, intentionally or not, that we uncritically accept as customers, including those who say they aren't into the fantasy.

I think the thing that brought this whole "illusion" thing home to me was when I'd see my ATF greet a customer like he was her long-lost lover, tell him how happpy she was to see him etc. etc., then come over to me and the first words out of her mouth were, "what an asshole." It was funny as hell because she was a great actress. But it also made me think. But I also know that there were customers who she really did enjoy seeing - I hope I was one of them.

I met a girl recently who used a lot of lines along the following: "OK, I have to go flirt with THOSE MORONS now" or "Well, it's nice to get back to someone who has DECENT GROOMING relative to THAT guy." It was all about creating a little enclave of secrecy, in which she and I could mildly (though respectfully) disparage the other customers. She wasn't TOO negative, but it was intended to make me feel special, a cut above the others. It's a good sales trick if you can balance the subtleties. Done too much, and it just comes off as, "I hate my customers." Done to the right degree, and it's, "I'd rather be here with you rather than over there with them."

No doubt, she has a customized line to the same effect to make each of her customers feel special. "Sorry, I had to act nice to Sherlock over there with the pipe. It's so nice to hang with you cool types who don't get fanatical about having every hair on your head in place."

duck

Yup, indeed. That would be exactly the line about me. Or "mister professor" or something like that. Of course, for you it would be, "Sorry, I had to spend time with the Saint Bernard and say I really LIKED his slobber all over my thigh ..." :P

:)

I think I'd start getting paranoid of my girl of choice was talking about all of the "OTHER" losers in the club. I'd start thinking that when she was with one of those "others", that >>I<< would be one of those losers she was talking about.

Another reason that I like the OTC choice. There's no chance she's saying those things about me, since there's no one else to tell. (yeah, there's a chance that I become one of those losers when she's not OTC with me, but at least I don't see it happening)

Book Guy: St. Bernard? More like, "Sorry, I had to treat myself to some make out time with my boy toy. Can you blame a girl?" Or so I imagine.

Naw, she'd never tell people the TRUTH about me like that. That would ruin THEIR fantasy. :)

Very early in my career I had a job that required me to gather intelligence from current and potential new customers. Since I was new to this particualar industry I often had no idea what anyone was talking about. So I'd confess my ignorance the beginning, and was amazed at how much information people would give me. That technique worked so well that I continued to do it long after my knowledge increased.

I've often done the same thing in a strip club and found that it worked equally well. I'd pretend that I was new at strip clubbing and didn't know much about them. Girls often went out of their way to "educate" me. Try it sometime when you're in a new club, you might be amazed at how much fun it is.

FONDL: Newbie perv is one of the roles I slip into:

"Wow! Are you really a stripper? But you're so young and pretty. I thought all strippers were worn out old skanks."

"So how does this work? You rub your sweet, luscious body all over mine and I give you money? Awesome."

I've found that if you play dumb and ask a girl to explain how things work she'll reveal a lot more than she would to, say, asking her direct questions about contact. The only times I've been surprised in the LD room have been pleasant surprises.

I've found that downplaying your knowledge works well in other life situations too. It's amazing what some people will tell you when they don't think you understand anything about a topic. People like to show off their knowledge. It's also a good way to spot the bullshitters. Plus it's always been easy for me to appear to be naive, I look the part. I like to be underestimated, it can be a real advantage in many situations.

People have often recommended to me that I should learn the benefits of being under-estimated by various power-structures. I do sometimes try to slip in under the radar, but generally I've found that the fact that I'm under-estimated simply means I get fired because they didn't know I was the one doing all the extra work, or thought of me as merely a dumb inexperienced and UNCERTIFIED country rube. How does one tread the fine line between excessive self-aggrandizement, on the one hand; and excessive self-abnegation, on the other?