Why do ppl buy homes..if u have kids maybe I get it..but I would rather have 50-

A home is a big investment when you take insurance, taxes, upkeep/maintenance, and higher utility costs.

If you have a family it makes more sense.

Depends on the market. Buying after the housing crash of 2008 was a steal and no-brainer. Buying at a real estate peak can be devastating. Homes need about 10% of net worth per year to keep in top condition, so upkeep/maintenance is big consideration.

Read books and articles by Robert Shiller. He's a guru on the housing markets.

Not 10% but 1%

Why buy a house when u can use that tonsave in bank account?

The guy renting you your apartment isn’t doing it for charity, he’s earning a profit off of you... you’re living like a schmuck in some shit box grungy apartment with welfare case tweakers getting subsidized rent for your neighbors while you’re a slave to paying for your landlord’s yacht. No. You’ll buy a house.

You have to live somewhere. Rent is money you never see again. Own your place and you accrue equity and the property value can rise. Also there are income tax benefits to interest paid on mortgages on your primary residence.

If you want the freedom to change cities every couple years it doesn't make sense to buy, but owning is often cheaper than renting. There are some online calculators that run the numbers and it is housing market dependant.

you’re living like a schmuck in some shit box

^umm no..not all housing ia government housing or close to it. Fucking dumb

@James u said :"Rent is money you never see again."

^ well so is money to pay off a mortgage..the different Is at least I don't owe interest and I have a cheaper amount to pay .

There isn't necessarily a right or wrong decision, perhaps a matter of preference - some folks reaally like living in a house and some people hate the overhead/responsibility - probably makes sense to go with what makes the person happier - one is also able to invest the additional $$$ not being put into a house

Depending where you live, a house is unrealistic.... You can have a six figure income in LA and not be able to afford a house.

You’re apparently not familiar with Section 8. Also, it’s not me who’s dumb.

Owning a house is an expense, not an investment. But, there are non-financial reasons that many choose ownership. Stability. Belonging to a community. The right to do whatever you want to the property.

@chulo I agree

You can take a look at inflation-adjusted price-to-rent for housing:

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/--eaxq04bmJg/W…

..which is similar to price-to-earnings for the stock market. You can see that 2006 was a horrible time to buy a house (that was the period Wall Street was churning out dogshit mortgages and selling them as securities). By the end of 2009, it was a good idea to buy again. Right now, it's up in the air. Housing is starting to fall in some key areas, and it may be better to rent for a while.

Housing *can* be a good investment.

Nicole, I don't know your market. I do know that my mortgage is about 60 percent of what my next door neighbors pay to rent a very similar house.

Owning is a great deal in a market where housing costs rise every year, especially if home prices also rise. It's obviously less good if prices fall or rents are stagnant.

But again because of the tax incentives for those of.us who file W2s unlike most strippers, deducting 10k in interest a year can be 3,000 or more of free money each year and really tip the scales

It's probably a shitty time to buy in most markets right now though

"my mortgage is about 60 percent of what my next door neighbors pay to rent a very similar house."

@ James I'm talking about renting an apartment not a house.

And the fact that your mortgage is cheaper than renting a house is an unusual case, just bc I'm.pretty sure that the purpose of renting a house is to avoid higher mortgage payment cost

Ahh yes the apartment; awful music from your dumb fuck neighbors; smelling the garbage they call food cooking; small space; rent increases; making someone else wealthy; community pool with your neighbors; have to wear clothes all the time; neighbors in your face all day; how can you beat it. Capital gain on house? Take your lifetime exemption. Interets on money in bank? Pay taxes. When you live in an apartment and you retire, you, well live an apartment. When you own a house, you do what we will do in 5 - 8 years: sell it, buy a small house on a lake, a large travel travel, a Ford-F250 and live off our retirement assets. Believe it or not future public defender, some people have a home and money in the bank. Just my wife and I; no kids; wooded lot; stone walls; fences; trees; pool; privacy; naked adult parties and so sorry but we paid 346,843 in interest and the house is worth far more than that, so we own and saved money, given the high rents here.

Reason you u buy a house use is so you don’t have rent or mtg pmts in retirement and thus your savings go much further and allow you to travel. If I was giving a 20 yr old advice, I’d say save like hell into a 401k, wait until your in your 30s and you can borrow up to 50k for a down payment. You’ll pay yourself interest on the 50k and try to find something affordable. Ultimately the goal is no rent payments in retirement so you can use that money to travel or for hobbies etc.

Finally a not so dumb question from Nicoooooooole

Overall the trend for costs are rising, unless we have a severe depression housing costs will continue to rise, actually makes sense for many to lock in costs at today’s rates, no matter whether you own a home or an apartment or anything in between chances are excellent there will be appreciation of principle, and it’s guaranteed that rents will rise faster than the rate of inflation, based on mortgage rates, rents skew high, and unless you’re going to be short term in a location you’ll always do better as an owner, than you’ll do as a renter

I believe in getting a house the old-fashioned way--asking your parents to buy one for you.

I burned my mortgage a few years back--when I bought the house it wasn't anything spectacular but I wanted a place with more room, a yard, and some privacy, a garage for my car.

Real Estate was not peaking but had been consistently on the rise where I live. ( the value did take a hit in 2008) but there wasn't really much difference in the cost to rent and the cost to purchase a home. Tax advantages were a reason. Low fixed interest rates.

Now there isn't a payment. The value of the place is roughly 2.25 times what it was when first purchased. And it is customized so it has what I want in it.

Buy a house and rent out the rooms until you get a family.

If possible live with your parents until you can save up your money to buy the house. If you want to feel like an adult then pay your parents rent which you'll get back when they die. If you can't live with your parents then renting a house with lots of room mates should allow you to save money faster than living single.

You can rent for life, or you can pay a mortgage for 30 years or less and then live rent free for the rest of your life. It's your choice. I have been mortgage and rent free for 6 years now.

For most single people in their 20s and 30s, the smartest financial move is to rent a small apartment and put every dollar you can into a 401k and Roth IRA invested in an S&P 500 index fund. With an average stock return of 8%-10%, versus 2%-3% for real estate, that puts you on a path for an early retirement.

Owning a home is a good forced investment for people who don’t have the discipline to otherwise invest. But, for anyone with financial discipline, stocks are better.

Mostly agree with @Mark, but would be astonished if we got 8%/yr out of stocks over next decade. But, yeah, a 20-yr-old with discipline is better off renting a small place and dumping everything possible into stocks.

The smartest thing you can do is do whatever it takes for you to become an owner as soon as possible. I have talked to people that won't buy a condo, which is a less expensive option to a house because they want a big house. So they rent for 5-7 years to save for the house. Meanwhile, prices have appreciated and they have to pay more.

Buy good dividend paying stocks. I have been particularly fond of JNJ. Fuck the index funds.

If you want to build wealth, you need to own as soon as possible. In every housing market there are good buys. It comes down to, do you want to build wealth, or make excuses to prevent you from accumulating wealth? Life is about choices and sacrifices.

Actually if you can buy a duplex and rent the other half out it is probably one of the better moves you can make.

I tried but at the time couldn't get the owner to bite so I ended up buying a home. There are a other variables as well--terms of the agreement, what you are currently paying for rent verus the cost of the house payment, etc.

@AZ420 these millennials always have excuses and it’s always someone else’s fault that the can’t get ahead.

Bottom line is it's a complex financial decision with a number of personal and market factors in play.

Just exercise your stock options and pay cash for a house.

Over the long run, home prices can only go up as fast as wages rise, typically 2%-3%. In some markets, prices can rise faster than wages for a few years. That gives the impression that home prices will rise rapidly forever. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

We are seeing an exodus of people from parts of the country where home prices are not sustainable. That will continue until the price to wage ratio becomes more affordable.

There is no better feeling in the world to own your own home.

When you take taxes, insurance, and HOA fees, that alone may amount or surpass the rent on an apartment

^ Not usually those items need to be covered by rent, and rent on something comparable will necessarily cost more. I mean sure if you compare a typical 7-900 square foot apartment w/o a garage to the cost to rent a typical 2300 square foot house with a garage, but if you compare apples to apples the cost needs to be covered.

I would assume in general if you want to live in a nice house it will likely not make sense to rent

^True unless you’re a short timer in the area, then it might make more sense than buying.

Actually i want to live in hotel cascada

Average rent on a 2 bedroom apt here in a neighborhood where you will make it to yiur car safely almost all of the time is $1800.00 Our Mortgage was $1877 for PIT and ins. I struggle to see how owning my house for $77 a month was a bad idea over renting.

^ you probably bought your house 20 to 30 years ago - not an apples to apples comparison

It reallyu is the same. Yes, I bought it in 1998, bnut only because I was smart enough to wait until the inane real estate market bubble collapsed, just like this one will. In the earlymid 80's, real estate prices went beserk, worse than now, but slightly less than in the early years of this century. The we had the savings and loan crisis and sellers came to the closing with a check to pay off mortgages when they sold through the mid 90's. We rented a 1 bedroom apartment. We bought and watched the value of the house quadruple, but kept it and watched the next financial crisis happen in 2007 - 2012, as prices crashed. Now they have rebounded, people are buying too much house and millenialls who are not saving to buy in 5 years when it crashes againwill have once again proven that they have learned nothing. By the way Our Mortgage was 1400 when we bought it and average rent here was 1400 as well.

Your 1st home should be 1 that you want to rent and not the 1 you see yourself living in the rest of your life. Would you rather have 100k in the bank or something that makes 1.25K a month for the rest of your life.

You probably just have a preference for city living in general if that's the case. I'm more of a suburbs guy though so I'd prefer a house.

I have no kids. In my part of the country, it was a lot cheaper to buy a starter home rather than rent. Now 20 years later, I have no mortgage left. Still have a loan and looking to relocate and get a new mortgage. Wondering if the economy will go south within a few years and cause house prices to drop but that is hard to predict. If you think this 10 year record bull market is almost over and house prices and the economy are heading south as soon as we get a democrat or Bernie in the Oval Office and raise taxes on everyone 25%, then it is a bad time to buy. Some areas of the country cost more to buy versus rent. There are online sources to check out. It's economics. I was able to have a monthly mortgage that didn't cost a lot more than apartment rent. Some people even create businesses buying homes and renting them out to others. Makes it harder to buy homes if too many are doing that.

Buying a home can be a top income generator over ones lifetime. Many people have trouble saving money without incentives and many people fail to get stock market returns like the pros get. They buy high and sell low. Most Americans don't have much saved for retirement. If you do, you are not average.

Example in Charlotte area with $200,000 mortgage, 10% down over 19 years you save $119,000 buying versus renting.
https://www.nerdwallet.com/mortgages/ren…

Same site for San Diego with a $750,000 house, assuming same size house costs at least 3 to 4 times as southeast, it says buying will never be cheaper than renting so the decision is geographical as well as economical. It is not economical in some parts of the country.

Home ownership is grossly over rated. Some of it just comes down to the ratio of building price versus land costs.

If the land costs are most of it, then buying is a better deal. A tenant will not damage the land, and so the rental price is better.

But if the land cost is small and it is mostly the building price, then it is more like renting an automobile. As it does wear out and get thrashed, the rental price will not be that favorable. With small land costs, the adage that buying is cheaper than renting can be true.

But unfortunately people propagate this into situations where it does not apply.

Where I live house prices are absurd, just no way it could be worth having that much money tied up in it. I have read them to people in other parts of the country and they just laugh. Trying to extend the real estate bubble corrupts all facets of local politics, including election practices which the courts have declared unlawful.

Doug Henwood and his wife talk about being cornered into buying. They did not want to. They had each grown up in NYC, but with rent control. Now without that, they had to buy.

http://www.leftbusinessobserver.com/

What I say is that we need Universal Basic Income, and a huge public housing offering, fixed at 1/2 of your UBI. Rent controls are hard to enforce. But this would use public competition to keep housing costs reasonable. And the public housing would be dense towers built on rail public transit lines, and with all services on their lower floors. Extremely public transit and bicycle friendly. A huge environmental improvement.

SJG

President Trump Threatens Political Opponents with Violence

President Trump appeared to threaten his political opponents with violence in an interview published Thursday by the far-right website Breitbart. Trump accused his opponents on the left of “playing tough” but said his supporters are tougher, telling Breitbart, “I have the support of the police, the support of the military, the support of the Bikers for Trump—I have the tough people, but they don’t play it tough—until they go to a certain point and then it would be very bad, very bad.”

Jeff Healey Band
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5Qb-6Qk…

The Way Life Should Be, Awesome Slut Dress
https://www.ebay.com/i/143057311071?var=…

so lets see.... If I have a mortgage that is 200,000 dollars and I'm paying 1500 per month.... you rent a place for 1000 a month, then save the 500 (of course if you save this money you are no longer cheaper than the mortgage).... In 30 years I have paid off house, you are still paying rent.... Or in 30 years assuming house appreciated at 5% per year it is worth 864,000 and your 500 per month at 8% per year is worth 734,000, now the real estate market could crash or their could be a run on banks or stock market could crash or etc..... Of course all this assumes that your rent does not escalate over the 30 years which it almost certainly will whereas the mortgage is fixed. At the end of the day it is a matter of preference although most people choose to have some form of ownership

^^^^^^^ These are all assumptions you are making.

1. Difference between renting and mortgage prices.

2. Appreciation.

Change the numbers and it looks different.

Tends to be that lesser inflated places are better to buy. Highly inflated places better to rent.

Lesser inflated means greater potential for appreciation. Highly inflated means great potential for price collapse.

Lesser inflated means land cost is smaller portion of purchase price, so rental costs will not be that favorable..

Highly inflated means that it is all land cost, so while still high, the rental price will be more attractive compared to the purchase costs.


And then in some places, like here, vast numbers of people could never even afford to buy, sometimes not even to rent.


Right before the 2008 collapse, yahoo finance listed the very worst place to buy a home in the entire United States as San Jose, Santa Clara, Sunnyvale, and then the second worst place being San Francisco, Oakland, Berkeley. And this was out of hundreds and hundreds of regions they had identified.

Local costs are even more insane today.

And then also, it just means having too much money tied up. Even if you can afford it, the money would be better used other ways.

Our politics is completely corrupted by efforts to extend these bubbles. And the courts have already judged some local election practices as deliberately designed to disenfranchise minority voters, and hence as illegal, and corrective orders were issued.

SJG

But yes, home ownership has a deep mythos. Doug Henwood and his wife did not want to buy in NYC.

If you challenge this mythos, have a divorce lawyer ready.

SJG

What Tom Hartmann says is that it was free and cheap land which launched America's Middle-Class. And this gave us a huge advantage over other countries which had only colonialism, and then oligarchy. Democracy stated to work for us. They have never had this.

But by the passage of the Civil War, this had largely dried up. So we had the Granger movement, first time people wanted to limit the power of Big Business. We had the 1880's, a most reactionary decade. And there had been the 1870's, the first world wide recession. Due to that pressure was applied on the Grant Administration to end Reconstruction. So the South East would be a consumer base and the West would be a natural resources base. Capitalism does things like this, never solving problems, just expanding in scope.

So what re-launched the middle-class?

Franklin Roosevelt and Keynesian levels of progressive income taxation and spending, widening the economy by transferring wealth downwards. Worked very well for decades. Never failed in any way. But it was partially abandoned when Ronald Reagan was elected, due in part to the rise of the religious right, and a backlash against the Civil Rights Movement, The Women's Movement, The War On Poverty, and the Anti-War Movement.

SJG

My sweet sweet Poosche why you worry about home? You graduate. Father sell you to rich Pakistani goat farmer for highest dollar make lots of ruppeees you have house and farm and be Queen Law of #1 Goat Farm.

They are all assumptions however they are historically accurate assumptions applied to housing in Atlanta.... you are right that if you change the numbers you get a different outcome, everything in life is a gamble and not making a decision is making a decision. The road is paved with indecisive squirrels. So get your analysis paralysis going and continue to live in your mothers basement trying to make the perfect decision.

Yes, Atlanta. But a history of appreciation, going well beyond the rest of the country, does not mean that there is any reason to expect that to continue.

But up your ass, calling me indecisive, and with that shit about my mother's basement.

https://www.globalindustrial.com/p/tools…

Many wealthy people decide to rent, particularly in very inflated areas. No matter how much money they have, buying is still just not worth the costs.

And besides, most people want to live in their homes. Appreciation does not help them unless they plan on trading down on this side of the grave.

Read and learn:
https://www.amazon.com/Wealthy-Barber-Up…

Historically from say the depression to now, real estate costs in most places have had only steady appreciation. Land prices go only so much above farm land prices, and these tend to be uniform nationwide. Construction costs rise with the cost of living and wages. Though prices of things like lumber rise, materials costs for construction drop due to better methods.

Two thing have led to rises, one is just the effects of urbanization, pushes costs up. And then being near water.

But the big one is the move from single income to dual income.

Feminism was led by radical women who did not need social approval.

But as the gains became mainstream, this meant that the gains were plowed into social status, meaning home purchase.

This meant that the prices could go up a lot. But, that is a change which can happen once, and only once.

The kinds of things real estate agents say are just not true.

https://www.amazon.com/Two-Income-Trap-M…

Nichole should be congratulated for taking a critical look at all of this.

SJG

LOL, you are right, 150 years of statistics is wrong and a nut job from San Jose is a genius..... Mom's Basement and the indecisiveness struck a nerve huh? have you two been having talks about you moving out, maybe to a group home somewhere

150 years of statistics do not predict anything about the future.

What we have seen most of the time is gentle appreciation, not the high appreciation which has brought on the present state. Rather, it is changes in living patters which have brought this about, not anything like supply and demand issues.

And it was yahoo finance who pegged San Jose, Santa Clara, and Sunnyvale as the number 1 worst place to buy a home in the entire country, too much down side risk. No reason to expect more appreciation.

And lots of wealthy people decide to rent, especially in inflated areas.

Kudos to our OP Nichole for starting to think critically about his, instead of just accepting folk adages.

Now as far as your belligerence:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c…

SJG

And that's a wrap from SJGM's Basement tune in tomorrow when SJG will tell you how you are wrong about something else

And watch how the paramedics try in vain to remove this from Daddillac's rectum:

https://www.drpower.com/power-equipment/…

SJG

When your mother gets remarried which step brother are you going to be.... Will Ferrell or John Reilly?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0TWeOrI…

Which is it?

I don't know anything about any of that. But I do know that the sooner your mouth is duct taped shut, the better.

https://images.freeimages.com/images/pre…

SJG

you liberals are so fucking violent

^^^^^ You're damned right!

SJG

Well I don't think you are man enough to take me so you better round up some of your friends..... I'll tell your Mom to pack you a lunch, don't worry she will put the grapes, the goldfish, and cut the crust off your sandwich just like you like.

If she doesn't I will not give her any dick for a week, she would rather masturbate with a cheese grater than to piss me off

Nichoooooooooole make me a sammich daddy hungry

Daddillac, I'm not interested in besting people in bar fights. I don't do things that way. I solve problems, permanently. I am happy to talk to you. But you are going to have to keep it civil and refrain from making any personal attacks, against me or against anyone.

Consider this, I was having business conversations with someone in Pennsylvania. He was talking about what he and the wife could by via dual income. I got the reference and told him about the Dual Income Trap book, how dual incomes double the risk. Then he quoted me some median home price for this area. I told him that those sounded quite a bit low.

So I copied down the info from a couple of adds posted at a local market. I read the info too him and then told him what the asking prices were. He was completely flabbergasted. He said, "That's ridiculous!.

You talked about $1000 / month for renting, and $1,500 per month for buying.

Now remember, condos have association fees, and lots of other problems with them. And here they are still hugely expensive anyway.

But rent here could be 2 to 3x what you cite, or more.

Buying costs here could be 4x to 6x what you cite, or more, and for just a basic bread and butter home.

At some point the buy option really just does not make any sense. And considering, a region inflated beyond the rest of the country, with the Internet and all, beyond a point it is not reasonable to assume much appreciation. Rather, one sees the depreciation potential.

So again, it was yahoo Finance, not me, who put this area at the very bottom, for the entire country.

Some of the high costs are the weather. But other is due to employment, low crime rate, and good schools. But these latter three really do all come down to employment.

Some of it is also how screwy proposition 13 made things, separating property values from property taxes, and discouraging retirees from moving out and trading down, making it impossible for millenials.

The good job bubble started to cave in during the 1980's, when semi-conductor fabrication started to move out. Since there have been other waves of things, but most of these still have proved to be very short term. Not good for employers to base here when housing costs are so high. So there is a constant exodus.

Many of the newer employers are pretty sleazy, paying very low salaried new grads mostly with stock options. Real stupid. And the success rate for venture funded start ups is about 1 in 10. Only single new grads would take that shit. And so these are the people who don't look to home ownership anytime soon. The reason they want the new grads is the low salaries, willing to work long hours, and because most of the time then they can manage the company by cheerleading. People that young won't have any basis to question stupidity.

Most everyone I have ever met looks to getting the hell out. And this rates higher for them than any dream of getting rich.

And no one believes that just off of paychecks and "financial literacy" that they will be able to become local home owners.

Every time they talk about min wage or housing cost issues, the news papers profile people, one recently a law school student, who working 2 jobs, cannot get anything better than renting the couch in someone's living room.

Other people are partitioning 2 car garages into 4 units, and renting them out, and still at quite high prices.

And again, what we should be saying is kudos to Nichole for not going along with folk wisdom, and instead starting to look critically at these kinds of issues.

SJG

David Gilmour The Strat Pack 2004 All 3 songs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sVwlm-n…

Hey SJG, can you imagine yourself using Nichole’s logic back when you bought your property several years ago? I mean, you would have been priced out of the market forces to make a decision of buying a home at today’s prices or renting a one bedroom apartment for $3000/month. It wouldn’t have been a wise choice to let your housing costs inflate like that over time, but you probably bought early on and kept housing costs from creeping up year over year.

If Nichole ever wants to take the responsibility of homeownership, the benefits are that instead of paying $1,500 to $2,000/month in rent and make a $1,500- $2k month mortgage payment. Her advantage would be that in 20 years she won’t have to pay $4,000 month in rent because she would have owned a home for $1,500-$2,000 month mortgage payment and own it outright within 10 years, leading to $0 mortgage or housing costs, other than maintenance and taxes/insurance.

Owning a home is the best thing a young person can do to keep inflation from eating away at their future housing costs. Interest rates are low, and if you know you’re going to live in a certain neighborhood for the next 10 years, you’re better off owning. The caveat is if you’re a responsible person. If you’re irresponsjble you should never own a house because your just a poor manager of your personal finances, too.

SJG reads froma script that is anti-personal responsibility because he believes the government should own people. Keep people from being independent and you can keep them dependent on the government being their daddy!

^^^^^^ Not true. You are speaking idiocy Meat72.

When purchase prices are extremely high, and so the difference between buying and renting is large, not tying that extra money up in a mortgage obligation can be very smart.

And when prices are extremely inflated, the appreciation potential is less, where as the depreciation potential is large.

And seeing your home as an investment is highly questionable, unless you are planning to trade down.

This is why NYC had long been a place where people preferred to rent.

Meat, you do just just live by stupid adages. You are an adage.

Nichole on the other hand is already starting to think critically, and this warrants praise.

SJG

Prices aren't based on any actual market forces other than speculation....ie greed.

^ if Nichole was thinking critically you’d be the last person she’d agree with you rapey retard.

^^^ Hey you fucking ritarded liberal SJG, Nichole doesn’t live in a sky high coastal area like San Jose or NYC! She lives in the middle of America where housing costs are still reasonable. See this is a prime example of you looking through your own colored glasses instead of the reality of things. You are so egocentric SJG that you think your life applies to everyone else’s. Do you own your own home? If so, would you rather have bought it when you did, or faced with paying rent at today’s prices. See this is the stupidity and hypocrisy of SJG which has earned you the right of being called the most hated PL on TUSCL!

Everybody hates you and wishes you’d just go away! Ok bye, SJG...

Costs aren't reasonable anywhere when factor in all living costs and wages in a given area. Yeah Nebraska may be affordable if you're in LA making LA wages, but when you're in Nebraska, those aren't the wages you're earning.

Nichole is using her brain. She will find the right answers for herself and her situation.

You Meat72, you are pre-programmed robot running in a squirrel cage.

SJG